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Re: The Iron Duke (was: Loyally disloyal OT)

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  • Five Rivers Chapmanry
    If one branch of the Wellington family was de Wellesley, then that would, I do believe, have made them of Norman background, which if one goes back far enough,
    Message 1 of 19 , Oct 25, 2006
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      If one branch of the Wellington family was de Wellesley, then
      that would, I do believe, have made them of Norman background, which if one
      goes back far enough, indicates descent of the North-men (the Norse, or
      Vikings) who invaded the North of France. So, in fact, Wellington was likely
      of Norwegian descent.



      Anyone care to trace this back further? (laughing)



      Regards,

      Lorina

      Five Rivers Chapmanry

      purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage,
      re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more.

      519-799-5577 info@... - www.5rivers.org





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Peter Monahan
      Anyone care to trace this back further? I suppose at some level we re all Africans ! or apes! ============================================================
      Message 2 of 19 , Oct 25, 2006
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        " Anyone care to trace this back further? "

        I suppose at some level we're all Africans ! or apes!
        ============================================================
        From: "Five Rivers Chapmanry" <lgsteph@...>
        Date: 2006/10/25 Wed AM 05:34:18 EST
        To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: The Iron Duke (was: Loyally disloyal OT)

        If one branch of the Wellington family was de Wellesley, then
        that would, I do believe, have made them of Norman background, which if one
        goes back far enough, indicates descent of the North-men (the Norse, or
        Vikings) who invaded the North of France. So, in fact, Wellington was likely
        of Norwegian descent.



        Anyone care to trace this back further? (laughing)



        Regards,

        Lorina

        Five Rivers Chapmanry

        purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage,
        re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more.

        519-799-5577 info@... - www.5rivers.org





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


        ============================================================
      • BritcomHMP@aol.com
        In a message dated 25/10/2006 04:44:56 Central Standard Time, lgsteph@wightman.ca writes: If one branch of the Wellington family was de Wellesley, then that
        Message 3 of 19 , Oct 25, 2006
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          In a message dated 25/10/2006 04:44:56 Central Standard Time,
          lgsteph@... writes:

          If one branch of the Wellington family was de Wellesley, then
          that would, I do believe, have made them of Norman background,


          Strangely enough the book that mentions De Wellesley and the Richard II
          connection says they were of Saxon decent. Sounds a bit off to me too. However
          Wellington did go to military school in France for a while, the cavalry school
          at Angers.

          Cheers

          Tim


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • BritcomHMP@aol.com
          I note the title of this thread has changed. I assume most on the list are aware that the nickname The Iron Duke originated when, as Prime Minister
          Message 4 of 19 , Oct 25, 2006
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            I note the title of this thread has changed. I assume most on the list are
            aware that the nickname 'The Iron Duke' originated when, as Prime Minister
            Wellington piloted the Catholic Emancipation Bill through Parliament. Some of
            the population were so incensed by this they started throwing stones through the
            windows of Apsley House, to prevent this Wellington put iron shutters up at
            the windows, hence the nickname.

            Cheers

            Tim


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • roy winders
            Arent we all ? ... From: Five Rivers Chapmanry To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 5:34:18 AM Subject:
            Message 5 of 19 , Oct 25, 2006
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              Arent we all ?


              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Five Rivers Chapmanry <lgsteph@...>
              To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 5:34:18 AM
              Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: The Iron Duke (was: Loyally disloyal OT)

              If one branch of the Wellington family was de Wellesley, then
              that would, I do believe, have made them of Norman background, which if one
              goes back far enough, indicates descent of the North-men (the Norse, or
              Vikings) who invaded the North of France. So, in fact, Wellington was likely
              of Norwegian descent.

              Anyone care to trace this back further? (laughing)

              Regards,

              Lorina

              Five Rivers Chapmanry

              purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage,
              re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more.

              519-799-5577 info@5rivers. org - www.5rivers. org

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Five Rivers Chapmanry
              Saxons would never have claimed a foreign name like de Wellesley! :-) Regards, Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality
              Message 6 of 19 , Oct 26, 2006
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                Saxons would never have claimed a foreign name like de
                Wellesley! :-)



                Regards,

                Lorina

                Five Rivers Chapmanry

                purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage,
                re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more.

                519-799-5577 info@... - www.5rivers.org





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Five Rivers Chapmanry
                All descended of Norman? I ll have ye know that on me Mam s side I claim full Irish descent, a true Celtic lass if e re there were one. But on the side of the
                Message 7 of 19 , Oct 26, 2006
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                  All descended of Norman? I'll have ye know that on me Mam's side
                  I claim full Irish descent, a true Celtic lass if e're there were one. But
                  on the side of the padrone, I claim full Italian descent, first generation.
                  And I can tell you now neither of these backgrounds would take kindly to
                  being accused of being 'French'. <rbg>



                  Regards,

                  Lorina

                  Five Rivers Chapmanry

                  purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage,
                  re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more.

                  519-799-5577 info@... - www.5rivers.org





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • roy winders
                  Normans were of viking descent ... From: Five Rivers Chapmanry To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 3:36:15 PM
                  Message 8 of 19 , Oct 26, 2006
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                    Normans were of viking descent


                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: Five Rivers Chapmanry <lgsteph@...>
                    To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 3:36:15 PM
                    Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: The Iron Duke (was: Loyally disloyal OT)

                    All descended of Norman? I'll have ye know that on me Mam's side
                    I claim full Irish descent, a true Celtic lass if e're there were one. But
                    on the side of the padrone, I claim full Italian descent, first generation.
                    And I can tell you now neither of these backgrounds would take kindly to
                    being accused of being 'French'. <rbg>

                    Regards,

                    Lorina

                    Five Rivers Chapmanry

                    purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage,
                    re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more.

                    519-799-5577 info@5rivers. org - www.5rivers. org

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • David Lynch
                    I believe (from Longford s book? its been a while) that Wellington s family name of Wellesley had been Wesley (and were cousins to the founder of
                    Message 9 of 19 , Oct 26, 2006
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                      I believe (from Longford's book? its been a while) that
                      Wellington's family name of "Wellesley" had been "Wesley"(and were
                      cousins to the founder of Methodism), until his grandfather's
                      adoption as heir to the Wellesely fortune required the name change.
                      I also understand that "Wellesley" continued to pronounced
                      like "Wesley".

                      Cheers,
                      Dave Lynch
                      93rd

                      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, BritcomHMP@... wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > In a message dated 25/10/2006 04:44:56 Central Standard Time,
                      > lgsteph@... writes:
                      >
                      > If one branch of the Wellington family was de Wellesley, then
                      > that would, I do believe, have made them of Norman background,
                      >
                      >
                      > Strangely enough the book that mentions De Wellesley and the
                      Richard II
                      > connection says they were of Saxon decent. Sounds a bit off to me
                      too. However
                      > Wellington did go to military school in France for a while, the
                      cavalry school
                      > at Angers.
                      >
                      > Cheers
                      >
                      > Tim
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • dancingbobd@webtv.net
                      Hi Lorina, Please forgive my lack of knowledge, but is Lorina Irish or Italian? ATB Bob Dorian [Who is part Irish, part French, Part Welsh & part British.]
                      Message 10 of 19 , Oct 26, 2006
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                        Hi Lorina,

                        Please forgive my lack of knowledge, but is Lorina Irish or Italian?

                        ATB

                        Bob Dorian
                        [Who is part Irish, part French, Part Welsh & part British.]
                      • David Lynch
                        Oops - I see I was simply repeating something Tim already covered. Teaches me to read these stupid messages in reverse... Toodle-pip! Dave ... change. ... me
                        Message 11 of 19 , Oct 26, 2006
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                          Oops - I see I was simply repeating something Tim already covered.
                          Teaches me to read these stupid messages in reverse...

                          Toodle-pip!
                          Dave

                          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "David Lynch" <dave8365@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I believe (from Longford's book? its been a while) that
                          > Wellington's family name of "Wellesley" had been "Wesley"(and were
                          > cousins to the founder of Methodism), until his grandfather's
                          > adoption as heir to the Wellesely fortune required the name
                          change.
                          > I also understand that "Wellesley" continued to pronounced
                          > like "Wesley".
                          >
                          > Cheers,
                          > Dave Lynch
                          > 93rd
                          >
                          > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, BritcomHMP@ wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > In a message dated 25/10/2006 04:44:56 Central Standard Time,
                          > > lgsteph@ writes:
                          > >
                          > > If one branch of the Wellington family was de Wellesley, then
                          > > that would, I do believe, have made them of Norman background,
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Strangely enough the book that mentions De Wellesley and the
                          > Richard II
                          > > connection says they were of Saxon decent. Sounds a bit off to
                          me
                          > too. However
                          > > Wellington did go to military school in France for a while, the
                          > cavalry school
                          > > at Angers.
                          > >
                          > > Cheers
                          > >
                          > > Tim
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          >
                        • roy winders
                          much to taffys indignation, part Welsh IS part British lol ... From: dancingbobd@webtv.net To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                          Message 12 of 19 , Oct 26, 2006
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                            much to taffys indignation, part Welsh IS part British lol


                            ----- Original Message ----
                            From: "dancingbobd@..." <dancingbobd@...>
                            To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 8:21:18 PM
                            Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Re: The Iron Duke (was: Loyally disloyal OT)

                            Hi Lorina,

                            Please forgive my lack of knowledge, but is Lorina Irish or Italian?

                            ATB

                            Bob Dorian
                            [Who is part Irish, part French, Part Welsh & part British.]






                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Colin
                            Probably sticking my nose where it does not belong, being a Fenian Yank and all, but coming to taffy s (whomever that is.. Mr Dorian..maybe??) aid by quoting
                            Message 13 of 19 , Oct 26, 2006
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                              Probably sticking my nose where it does not belong, being a Fenian
                              Yank and all, but coming to "taffy's" (whomever that is.. Mr
                              Dorian..maybe??) aid by quoting my favorite music group:

                              "The land of the free
                              the heather, the heather
                              the Bretons and Scots
                              and Irish together
                              The Manx and the Welsh
                              and Cornish forever
                              six nations are we
                              PROUD, CELTIC and FREE."*

                              * the mighty, mighty WOLFE TONES

                              I'll go back to my Murphy's Stout and Jamesons now
                              YH (dis)OS
                              Colin Murphy
                              USS CON 1812 MG

                              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, roy winders <rangerroy50@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > much to taffys indignation, part Welsh IS part British lol
                              >
                              >
                            • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                              In a message dated 26/10/2006 20:17:26 Central Standard Time, usmarine1814@yahoo.com writes: coming to taffy s (whomever that is.. Mr Dorian..maybe??) aid
                              Message 14 of 19 , Oct 26, 2006
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                                In a message dated 26/10/2006 20:17:26 Central Standard Time,
                                usmarine1814@... writes:

                                coming to "taffy's" (whomever that is.. Mr
                                Dorian..maybe??) aid by quoting my favorite music group:



                                And to quote one of my favorite group (well duo actually)

                                The English, The English
                                The English are best,
                                I wouldn't give twopence
                                For all of the rest!


                                And all the world over each nations the same
                                They've simply no notion of 'playing the game'
                                They argue with umpires, they cheer when they've won
                                And they practice beforehand which ruins the fun.

                                It's not that their wicked or basically bad
                                It's knowing their FOREIGN that makes them so mad!

                                Pip pip

                                Tim


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • dancingbobd@webtv.net
                                Tim & Colin & all, Well, I wish that I had a song to share here. ; - ( I believe that the Irish were probably technically British at the time too. I probably
                                Message 15 of 19 , Oct 26, 2006
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                                  Tim & Colin & all,

                                  Well, I wish that I had a song to share here. ; - (

                                  I believe that the Irish were probably technically British at the time
                                  too.

                                  I probably should have said English for that part of my heritage.

                                  Bob
                                • roy winders
                                  Pure Flashshman, well said sir ... From: BritcomHMP@aol.com To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 11:07:03 PM
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Oct 27, 2006
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                                    Pure Flashshman, well said sir


                                    ----- Original Message ----
                                    From: "BritcomHMP@..." <BritcomHMP@...>
                                    To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 11:07:03 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Re: The Iron Duke (was: Loyally disloyal OT)


                                    In a message dated 26/10/2006 20:17:26 Central Standard Time,
                                    usmarine1814@ yahoo.com writes:

                                    coming to "taffy's" (whomever that is.. Mr
                                    Dorian..maybe? ?) aid by quoting my favorite music group:

                                    And to quote one of my favorite group (well duo actually)

                                    The English, The English
                                    The English are best,
                                    I wouldn't give twopence
                                    For all of the rest!


                                    And all the world over each nations the same
                                    They've simply no notion of 'playing the game'
                                    They argue with umpires, they cheer when they've won
                                    And they practice beforehand which ruins the fun.

                                    It's not that their wicked or basically bad
                                    It's knowing their FOREIGN that makes them so mad!

                                    Pip pip

                                    Tim

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • roy winders
                                    Fenians? arent they Australian ? ... From: Colin To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 9:15:01 PM Subject:
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Oct 27, 2006
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                                      Fenians? arent they Australian ?


                                      ----- Original Message ----
                                      From: Colin <usmarine1814@...>
                                      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 9:15:01 PM
                                      Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: The Iron Duke (was: Loyally disloyal OT)


                                      Probably sticking my nose where it does not belong, being a Fenian
                                      Yank and all, but coming to "taffy's" (whomever that is.. Mr
                                      Dorian..maybe? ?) aid by quoting my favorite music group:

                                      "The land of the free
                                      the heather, the heather
                                      the Bretons and Scots
                                      and Irish together
                                      The Manx and the Welsh
                                      and Cornish forever
                                      six nations are we
                                      PROUD, CELTIC and FREE."*

                                      * the mighty, mighty WOLFE TONES

                                      I'll go back to my Murphy's Stout and Jamesons now
                                      YH (dis)OS
                                      Colin Murphy
                                      USS CON 1812 MG

                                      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogrou ps.com, roy winders <rangerroy50@ ...>
                                      wrote:
                                      >
                                      > much to taffys indignation, part Welsh IS part British lol
                                      >
                                      >






                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Colin
                                      The Fenians were an Irish Nationalist group in the mid 19th Century that had branches in Ireland and America (I m sure there were sopme in Austrailia, New
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Oct 27, 2006
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                                        The Fenians were an Irish Nationalist group in the mid 19th Century
                                        that had "branches" in Ireland and America (I'm sure there were sopme
                                        in Austrailia, New Zealand, Canada etc.. whereever Britain had a
                                        colony and Irish were sent to or went to). Being the typical Irish
                                        Nationalist movement they all were never going in the same direction,
                                        under the same leadership, ever. In the 1860s in Ireland the Fenians
                                        tried to ferment revolt, but mostly just ended up rioting and then
                                        going home when the big guns showed up. In America the Fenians were
                                        split into two factions. 1 wanted to supply the Fenians in Ireland
                                        with men and materiel, the other side wanted a more direct approach,
                                        which seems A LOT more indirect. The hope of this second group was to
                                        seize Canada and hold it for ransom for Irish independence. After the
                                        Civil War the Fenians (2nd faction) grew in number and strength and
                                        recruited former Union and Confederate soldiers, mostly Irish-American
                                        in one shape or another, but also had other enthnic groups represented
                                        in the ranks including a few African Americans (Fenian "General" John
                                        O'Neal was an officer in a Black Union regiment and some of those men
                                        went along with him). From 1867-1873 the Fenians undertook a handful
                                        half Arsed "ivasions" of Canada with their greatest success (not
                                        saying much here) coming at Ridgeway near Fort Erie but, the US
                                        government, no longer needing the disenchanted Irshmen threat to add
                                        to the list of reasons to keep Britain from helping the Confederacy,
                                        stepped forward and seized much of the weapons and leaders forcing the
                                        Fenians at Ridgeway to head home. Other attempts were thwarted by US
                                        forces, British warships (Eastport Maine/Campabello Island), Canadian
                                        militia and just poor planning, ideas and leadership. Most of all the
                                        US government could not afford to have 1000s of armed Irish Americans
                                        crossing international borders and attacking. This and a split in
                                        leadership and the idea of the Irish finally becoming "American" after
                                        their service in the Civil War led to a down turn in Irish Nationalist
                                        sentiment in America (if only for a short period)and the "Fenian
                                        Movement" died out. Those who stuck to "the Cause" would go on to
                                        form the Irish Republican Brotherhood (which was actually the name of
                                        the Fenians pre 1857) which would lead to the "Land Wars of the 1880
                                        and the push for Home Rule in the 1890-1914 and eventually the Easter
                                        Rising of 1916.

                                        Today the term Fenian is a general term for Irish Nationalists.
                                        Sometimes used as a derogatory term by British and Unionists and of
                                        course, like many words that are used as derogatory by an opposing
                                        side, Fenian became more of a term of honor. Often in the statement
                                        "Unrepentant Fenian Bastard"

                                        I think I got the gist of it

                                        YHOS
                                        Colin Murphy
                                        USS CON 1812 Marine Guard

                                        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, roy winders <rangerroy50@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Fenians? arent they Australian ?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ----- Original Message ----
                                        > From: Colin <usmarine1814@...>
                                        > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 9:15:01 PM
                                        > Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: The Iron Duke (was: Loyally disloyal OT)
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Probably sticking my nose where it does not belong, being a Fenian
                                        > Yank and all, but coming to "taffy's" (whomever that is.. Mr
                                        > Dorian..maybe? ?) aid by quoting my favorite music group:
                                        >
                                        > "The land of the free
                                        > the heather, the heather
                                        > the Bretons and Scots
                                        > and Irish together
                                        > The Manx and the Welsh
                                        > and Cornish forever
                                        > six nations are we
                                        > PROUD, CELTIC and FREE."*
                                        >
                                        > * the mighty, mighty WOLFE TONES
                                        >
                                        > I'll go back to my Murphy's Stout and Jamesons now
                                        > YH (dis)OS
                                        > Colin Murphy
                                        > USS CON 1812 MG
                                        >
                                        > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogrou ps.com, roy winders <rangerroy50@ ...>
                                        > wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > much to taffys indignation, part Welsh IS part British lol
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                      • HQ93rd@aol.com
                                        ... Aww, no blue, they d jest be IRISH pommy bastards down under.... ;-) Lt Col I have Irish Scots English Welsh ancestors B 93rd SHRoFLHU
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Nov 4, 2006
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                                          In a message dated 10/27/06 7:31:41 AM, usmarine1814@... writes:
                                          > > Fenians? arent they Australian ?
                                          >

                                          Aww, no blue, they'd jest be IRISH pommy bastards down under....
                                          ;-)

                                          Lt Col I have Irish Scots English Welsh ancestors B
                                          93rd SHRoFLHU
                                          www.93rdhighlanders.com
                                          THE Thin Red Line


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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