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Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.

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  • Ray Hobbs
    Of course, it is possible Tim. But with the regimental historian so ignorant of the War of 1812, it is unlikely that we shall find the proof. I have written to
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 4 6:42 AM
      Of course, it is possible Tim. But with the regimental historian so
      ignorant of the War of 1812, it is unlikely that we shall find the
      proof.
      I have written to the Regimental Museum to see if they can unravel the
      mystery.
      Ray

      On 4-Oct-06, at 9:31 AM, BritcomHMP@... wrote:

      >
      > In a message dated 04/10/2006 06:30:33 Central Standard Time,
      > ray.hobbs@... writes:
      >
      > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived in the
      > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours from that
      >
      > But is there a possibility that the colours were presented to the
      > 13th at
      > some later date? I know of at least one instance where an army
      > officer (George
      > DeLacy Evans ) was presented with one of the 'Tripoli' swords
      > captured by the
      > RN in Washington for later service with RN forces (the battle of Lake
      > Bourne).
      >
      > Just a thought,
      >
      > Tim
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Armchairadm@cs.com
      Vic Suthern wrote... I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American schooners taken at Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River. That would be my guess as
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 4 12:52 PM
        Vic Suthern wrote...

        I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American schooners taken
        at
        Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.


        That would be my guess as well. I know of no other US Naval vessels taken
        on Lake Champlaine during the course of the war.

        Ed B.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • LCpl_rm
        Vic, The foray into Lake Champlain by Pring and the bombardment of the Ft Cassin at the mouth of Otter Creek took place in May 1814, two months after LaColle.
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 4 8:43 PM
          Vic,

          The foray into Lake Champlain by Pring and the bombardment of the Ft Cassin at the mouth of Otter Creek took place in May 1814, two months after LaColle. Pring does mention the capture of a small vessel and talking to two prisoners about the American ship building efforts up Otter Creek at Vergennes. He also mentions sailing to Plattsburgh and Burlington to check on any building efforts going on in those ports. He then sails back to Ile-aux-Noix with the knowledge that the Americans are building a large vessel and the need for the British to follow suit. His letter is addressed to a Colonel William Williams, British Army, and in it, he suggests that any artificers from the regiments be assembled to work on the new vessel. Without any other letters from Pring, its hard to know what else he may have captured while on Lake Champlain in May 1814.

          The raids that resulted in the destruction/capture of some American vessels on Lake Champlain took place in August 1813.

          Cheers,

          Ed Seufert, Cpl
          1812 Royal Marines
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: suthren@...
          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:37 AM
          Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.


          Ray

          No other circumstance of a major US naval loss took place on Lake Champlain,
          with the possible exception of some schooners taken during a major British
          foray in 1813 that got as far south as the mouth of Otter Creek, where they
          bombarded a battery guarding the creek mouth (McDonough's fleet was up that
          creek). Possibly the Colour was retained at Ile-aux-Noix and came into the
          possession of the Regiment by indirect means. Otherwise I'm stumped.

          Vic
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
          To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:20 AM
          Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.

          > Vic et al.
          > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived in the
          > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours from that
          > encounter.
          > Ray
          >
          > On 3-Oct-06, at 4:29 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:
          >
          > > I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American schooners taken
          > > at
          > > Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.
          > >
          > > Vic
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
          > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
          > > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
          > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
          > >
          > > > Hi Peter:
          > > > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one in Lower
          > > > Canada, and the other in New York State.
          > > > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the UK do not
          > > > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
          > > > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at Plattsburgh,
          > > although
          > > > I do not recall ever reading of that.
          > > > Yrs etc.
          > > > Ray
          > > > 41st Regt.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
          > > >
          > > > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at
          > > Taunton. This
          > > > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment of Foot
          > > which
          > > > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince Albert's) and
          > > are now
          > > > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada from
          > > 1813-1815
          > > > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
          > > > >
          > > > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval colour
          > > captured
          > > > > on
          > > > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff on duty
          > > > > didn't
          > > > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the War of
          > > 1812
          > > > > :-)
          > > > >
          > > > > Thought you might be interested.
          > > > >
          > > > > Cheers
          > > > >
          > > > > P**
          > > > > In Pensioner, RHC
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
          > > hundreds of
          > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
          > > THOUSANDS of
          > > square miles...
          > > >
          > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
          > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          > > > American Forces Unit Listing
          > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
          > > >
          > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
          > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --
          > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
          > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date:
          > > 02/10/06
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
          square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
          square miles...
          >
          > Unit Contact information for North America:
          > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          > American Forces Unit Listing
          > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
          >
          > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
          > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > No virus found in this incoming message.
          > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date: 02/10/06
          >
          >





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • suthren@magma.ca
          Thanks, Ed. As usual, your detailed knowledge is admirable. Glad for the correct story. Vic ... From: LCpl_rm To:
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 5 4:26 AM
            Thanks, Ed. As usual, your detailed knowledge is admirable. Glad for the
            correct story.

            Vic
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "LCpl_rm" <LCpl_RM@...>
            To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:43 PM
            Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.


            > Vic,
            >
            > The foray into Lake Champlain by Pring and the bombardment of the Ft
            Cassin at the mouth of Otter Creek took place in May 1814, two months after
            LaColle. Pring does mention the capture of a small vessel and talking to
            two prisoners about the American ship building efforts up Otter Creek at
            Vergennes. He also mentions sailing to Plattsburgh and Burlington to check
            on any building efforts going on in those ports. He then sails back to
            Ile-aux-Noix with the knowledge that the Americans are building a large
            vessel and the need for the British to follow suit. His letter is addressed
            to a Colonel William Williams, British Army, and in it, he suggests that any
            artificers from the regiments be assembled to work on the new vessel.
            Without any other letters from Pring, its hard to know what else he may have
            captured while on Lake Champlain in May 1814.
            >
            > The raids that resulted in the destruction/capture of some American
            vessels on Lake Champlain took place in August 1813.
            >
            > Cheers,
            >
            > Ed Seufert, Cpl
            > 1812 Royal Marines
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: suthren@...
            > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:37 AM
            > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
            >
            >
            > Ray
            >
            > No other circumstance of a major US naval loss took place on Lake
            Champlain,
            > with the possible exception of some schooners taken during a major
            British
            > foray in 1813 that got as far south as the mouth of Otter Creek, where
            they
            > bombarded a battery guarding the creek mouth (McDonough's fleet was up
            that
            > creek). Possibly the Colour was retained at Ile-aux-Noix and came into
            the
            > possession of the Regiment by indirect means. Otherwise I'm stumped.
            >
            > Vic
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
            > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:20 AM
            > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
            >
            > > Vic et al.
            > > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived in the
            > > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours from that
            > > encounter.
            > > Ray
            > >
            > > On 3-Oct-06, at 4:29 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > > I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American schooners
            taken
            > > > at
            > > > Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.
            > > >
            > > > Vic
            > > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
            > > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
            > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
            > > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
            > > >
            > > > > Hi Peter:
            > > > > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one in Lower
            > > > > Canada, and the other in New York State.
            > > > > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the UK do
            not
            > > > > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
            > > > > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at Plattsburgh,
            > > > although
            > > > > I do not recall ever reading of that.
            > > > > Yrs etc.
            > > > > Ray
            > > > > 41st Regt.
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at
            > > > Taunton. This
            > > > > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment of Foot
            > > > which
            > > > > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince Albert's) and
            > > > are now
            > > > > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada from
            > > > 1813-1815
            > > > > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
            > > > > >
            > > > > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval colour
            > > > captured
            > > > > > on
            > > > > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff on duty
            > > > > > didn't
            > > > > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the War of
            > > > 1812
            > > > > > :-)
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Thought you might be interested.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Cheers
            > > > > >
            > > > > > P**
            > > > > > In Pensioner, RHC
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
            > > > hundreds of
            > > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
            > > > THOUSANDS of
            > > > square miles...
            > > > >
            > > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
            > > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            > > > > American Forces Unit Listing
            > > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            > > > >
            > > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
            > > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
            > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > --
            > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            > > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date:
            > > > 02/10/06
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
            of
            > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
            THOUSANDS of
            > square miles...
            > >
            > > Unit Contact information for North America:
            > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            > > American Forces Unit Listing
            > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            > >
            > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
            > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --
            > > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date:
            02/10/06
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
            square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
            square miles...
            >
            > Unit Contact information for North America:
            > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            > American Forces Unit Listing
            > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            >
            > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
            > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/462 - Release Date: 03/10/06
            >
            >
          • Ed Seufert
            Further research shows that Lt. Col. William Williams is the commander of the 13th Foot. The article on the Battle of Lacolle Mills by Robert Henderson on
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 6 8:35 AM
              Further research shows that Lt. Col. William Williams is the
              commander of the 13th Foot. The article on the Battle of Lacolle
              Mills by Robert Henderson on Discriminating General (go to
              http://www.warof1812.ca/lacolle.htm ) has the after action report by
              LTC Williams noting that he's "Comg. At St Johns" which is probably
              St-Jean-sur-Richelieu. Ltc Williams notes that Maj Handcock
              was "exceedingly indebted to Capt Pring" for aiding in the defense
              of the Mill.

              Noting the friendship in the letter from Pring to Williams in May
              1814, there must have been a good working relationship between the
              two. The US Naval colour in the possession of the Somerset LI
              Museum may be nothing more than a memento from one officer to
              another in thanks for their working together.

              On the other hand, the following is listed on the Somerset LI Museum
              Website.

              "Many uniforms from the 18th century to modern times.
              There are several prized items of Regimental interest including the
              last Colours carried by the Somerset Light Infantry and a United
              States naval flag which was captured by the 13th of Foot in Canada
              in 1813."

              If the 13th was posted to Canada in 1813, they may have had a hand
              in the capture of the two US vessels in the Richelieu. Does anyone
              know the date that the 13th arrived in Canada?

              Cheers,

              Ed Seufert, Cpl
              1812 Royal Marines


              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "LCpl_rm" <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:
              >
              > Vic,
              >
              > The foray into Lake Champlain by Pring and the bombardment of the
              Ft Cassin at the mouth of Otter Creek took place in May 1814, two
              months after LaColle. Pring does mention the capture of a small
              vessel and talking to two prisoners about the American ship building
              efforts up Otter Creek at Vergennes. He also mentions sailing to
              Plattsburgh and Burlington to check on any building efforts going on
              in those ports. He then sails back to Ile-aux-Noix with the
              knowledge that the Americans are building a large vessel and the
              need for the British to follow suit. His letter is addressed to a
              Colonel William Williams, British Army, and in it, he suggests that
              any artificers from the regiments be assembled to work on the new
              vessel. Without any other letters from Pring, its hard to know what
              else he may have captured while on Lake Champlain in May 1814.
              >
              > The raids that resulted in the destruction/capture of some
              American vessels on Lake Champlain took place in August 1813.
              >
              > Cheers,
              >
              > Ed Seufert, Cpl
              > 1812 Royal Marines
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: suthren@...
              > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:37 AM
              > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
              >
              >
              > Ray
              >
              > No other circumstance of a major US naval loss took place on
              Lake Champlain,
              > with the possible exception of some schooners taken during a
              major British
              > foray in 1813 that got as far south as the mouth of Otter Creek,
              where they
              > bombarded a battery guarding the creek mouth (McDonough's fleet
              was up that
              > creek). Possibly the Colour was retained at Ile-aux-Noix and
              came into the
              > possession of the Regiment by indirect means. Otherwise I'm
              stumped.
              >
              > Vic
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
              > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:20 AM
              > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
              >
              > > Vic et al.
              > > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived
              in the
              > > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours
              from that
              > > encounter.
              > > Ray
              > >
              > > On 3-Oct-06, at 4:29 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > > I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American
              schooners taken
              > > > at
              > > > Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.
              > > >
              > > > Vic
              > > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
              > > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
              > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
              > > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
              > > >
              > > > > Hi Peter:
              > > > > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one
              in Lower
              > > > > Canada, and the other in New York State.
              > > > > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the
              UK do not
              > > > > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
              > > > > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at
              Plattsburgh,
              > > > although
              > > > > I do not recall ever reading of that.
              > > > > Yrs etc.
              > > > > Ray
              > > > > 41st Regt.
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at
              > > > Taunton. This
              > > > > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment
              of Foot
              > > > which
              > > > > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince
              Albert's) and
              > > > are now
              > > > > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada
              from
              > > > 1813-1815
              > > > > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
              > > > > >
              > > > > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval
              colour
              > > > captured
              > > > > > on
              > > > > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff
              on duty
              > > > > > didn't
              > > > > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the
              War of
              > > > 1812
              > > > > > :-)
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Thought you might be interested.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Cheers
              > > > > >
              > > > > > P**
              > > > > > In Pensioner, RHC
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate
              of
              > > > hundreds of
              > > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate
              of
              > > > THOUSANDS of
              > > > square miles...
              > > > >
              > > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
              > > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              > > > > American Forces Unit Listing
              > > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              > > > >
              > > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
              > > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
              > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > --
              > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
              > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              > > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release
              Date:
              > > > 02/10/06
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
              hundreds of
              > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
              THOUSANDS of
              > square miles...
              > >
              > > Unit Contact information for North America:
              > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              > > American Forces Unit Listing
              > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              > >
              > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
              > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --
              > > No virus found in this incoming message.
              > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release
              Date: 02/10/06
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Ray Hobbs
              Ed: The 13th arrived in Canada in 1813 to undergo light Infantry training. They are not listed among the participants of the Battle of Ile aux noix, which is
              Message 6 of 14 , Oct 6 8:54 AM
                Ed:
                The 13th arrived in Canada in 1813 to undergo light Infantry training.
                They are not listed among the participants of the Battle of Ile aux
                noix, which is also St. John's or the Richlieu River. This took place
                on June 3rd, 1813. This is the encounter in which two US ships were
                captured - Growler and Eagle.
                The first listed engagement of the 13th - from numerous sources - is
                the one which followed over a month later, and was a looting expedition
                which went as far as Burlington Vermont.
                It was under the command of Murray of the 100th, and the British troops
                consisted of detachments of the 100th, 13th, 104th, Canadian Fencibles,
                Select Embodied Militia and Royal Artillery.
                The raid was severely criticised by both sides for its wanton
                destruction of private property.
                However, as far as I know, no ships were involved in this one.
                Still digging.
                Yrs with respect
                Ray
                41st

                On 6-Oct-06, at 11:35 AM, Ed Seufert wrote:
                >
                > On the other hand, the following is listed on the Somerset LI Museum
                > Website.
                >
                > "Many uniforms from the 18th century to modern times.
                > There are several prized items of Regimental interest including the
                > last Colours carried by the Somerset Light Infantry and a United
                > States naval flag which was captured by the 13th of Foot in Canada
                > in 1813."
                >
                > If the 13th was posted to Canada in 1813, they may have had a hand
                > in the capture of the two US vessels in the Richelieu. Does anyone
                > know the date that the 13th arrived in Canada?
                >
                > Cheers,
                >
                > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                > 1812 Royal Marines
                >
                > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "LCpl_rm" <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Vic,
                > >
                > > The foray into Lake Champlain by Pring and the bombardment of the
                > Ft Cassin at the mouth of Otter Creek took place in May 1814, two
                > months after LaColle. Pring does mention the capture of a small
                > vessel and talking to two prisoners about the American ship building
                > efforts up Otter Creek at Vergennes. He also mentions sailing to
                > Plattsburgh and Burlington to check on any building efforts going on
                > in those ports. He then sails back to Ile-aux-Noix with the
                > knowledge that the Americans are building a large vessel and the
                > need for the British to follow suit. His letter is addressed to a
                > Colonel William Williams, British Army, and in it, he suggests that
                > any artificers from the regiments be assembled to work on the new
                > vessel. Without any other letters from Pring, its hard to know what
                > else he may have captured while on Lake Champlain in May 1814.
                > >
                > > The raids that resulted in the destruction/capture of some
                > American vessels on Lake Champlain took place in August 1813.
                > >
                > > Cheers,
                > >
                > > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                > > 1812 Royal Marines
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: suthren@...
                > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:37 AM
                > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                > >
                > >
                > > Ray
                > >
                > > No other circumstance of a major US naval loss took place on
                > Lake Champlain,
                > > with the possible exception of some schooners taken during a
                > major British
                > > foray in 1813 that got as far south as the mouth of Otter Creek,
                > where they
                > > bombarded a battery guarding the creek mouth (McDonough's fleet
                > was up that
                > > creek). Possibly the Colour was retained at Ile-aux-Noix and
                > came into the
                > > possession of the Regiment by indirect means. Otherwise I'm
                > stumped.
                > >
                > > Vic
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:20 AM
                > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                > >
                > > > Vic et al.
                > > > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived
                > in the
                > > > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours
                > from that
                > > > encounter.
                > > > Ray
                > > >
                > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 4:29 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > > I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American
                > schooners taken
                > > > > at
                > > > > Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.
                > > > >
                > > > > Vic
                > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                > > > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
                > > > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                > > > >
                > > > > > Hi Peter:
                > > > > > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one
                > in Lower
                > > > > > Canada, and the other in New York State.
                > > > > > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the
                > UK do not
                > > > > > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
                > > > > > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at
                > Plattsburgh,
                > > > > although
                > > > > > I do not recall ever reading of that.
                > > > > > Yrs etc.
                > > > > > Ray
                > > > > > 41st Regt.
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at
                > > > > Taunton. This
                > > > > > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment
                > of Foot
                > > > > which
                > > > > > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince
                > Albert's) and
                > > > > are now
                > > > > > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada
                > from
                > > > > 1813-1815
                > > > > > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval
                > colour
                > > > > captured
                > > > > > > on
                > > > > > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff
                > on duty
                > > > > > > didn't
                > > > > > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the
                > War of
                > > > > 1812
                > > > > > > :-)
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Thought you might be interested.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Cheers
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > P**
                > > > > > > In Pensioner, RHC
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate
                > of
                > > > > hundreds of
                > > > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate
                > of
                > > > > THOUSANDS of
                > > > > square miles...
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                > > > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                > > > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                > > > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                > > > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                > > > > >
                > > > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                > > > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > --
                > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                > > > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release
                > Date:
                > > > > 02/10/06
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                > hundreds of
                > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                > THOUSANDS of
                > > square miles...
                > > >
                > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                > > >
                > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --
                > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release
                > Date: 02/10/06
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • LCpl_rm
                Ray, Thanks for the information. It looks like the 13th arrived in the Montreal area around the end of June and was pushed up to St Johns. What I m reading is
                Message 7 of 14 , Oct 6 7:04 PM
                  Ray,

                  Thanks for the information.

                  It looks like the 13th arrived in the Montreal area around the end of June and was pushed up to St Johns.

                  What I'm reading is that the Army raids into the Lake Champlain area left Isle Aux Noix on July 29th and Plattsburgh, Champlain and Swanton were attacked with all military supplies, barracks, works destroyed or carried off. The force returned on Aug 3. Murray's second in command is Ltc Williams of the 13th Foot. (Swanton is in Vermont near the border.)

                  I say Army raids as Murray says in his letter to Major General Sheaffe, dated the 3rd, that the Naval portion under Captains Everard and Pring "is still cruising on the Lake". This force returned on the 4th after sailing over to Burlington and trying to entice the American naval forces out onto the Lake. Not being successful there, they captured 4 vessels about 20 miles above Burlington and then returned. Everard reported that there was a large force of Americans (5000) encamped at Burlington and that the American ships were moored under a high bank upon which was artillery. There is no mention of landing at Burlington or conducting any raids ashore.

                  Everard in his report spells Pring as Pryng.

                  Cheers,

                  Ed Seufert, Cpl
                  1812 Royal Marines
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Ray Hobbs
                  To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 11:54 AM
                  Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Re: Taunton Castle Military Museum.


                  Ed:
                  The 13th arrived in Canada in 1813 to undergo light Infantry training.
                  They are not listed among the participants of the Battle of Ile aux
                  noix, which is also St. John's or the Richlieu River. This took place
                  on June 3rd, 1813. This is the encounter in which two US ships were
                  captured - Growler and Eagle.
                  The first listed engagement of the 13th - from numerous sources - is
                  the one which followed over a month later, and was a looting expedition
                  which went as far as Burlington Vermont.
                  It was under the command of Murray of the 100th, and the British troops
                  consisted of detachments of the 100th, 13th, 104th, Canadian Fencibles,
                  Select Embodied Militia and Royal Artillery.
                  The raid was severely criticised by both sides for its wanton
                  destruction of private property.
                  However, as far as I know, no ships were involved in this one.
                  Still digging.
                  Yrs with respect
                  Ray
                  41st

                  On 6-Oct-06, at 11:35 AM, Ed Seufert wrote:
                  >
                  > On the other hand, the following is listed on the Somerset LI Museum
                  > Website.
                  >
                  > "Many uniforms from the 18th century to modern times.
                  > There are several prized items of Regimental interest including the
                  > last Colours carried by the Somerset Light Infantry and a United
                  > States naval flag which was captured by the 13th of Foot in Canada
                  > in 1813."
                  >
                  > If the 13th was posted to Canada in 1813, they may have had a hand
                  > in the capture of the two US vessels in the Richelieu. Does anyone
                  > know the date that the 13th arrived in Canada?
                  >
                  > Cheers,
                  >
                  > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                  > 1812 Royal Marines
                  >
                  > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "LCpl_rm" <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Vic,
                  > >
                  > > The foray into Lake Champlain by Pring and the bombardment of the
                  > Ft Cassin at the mouth of Otter Creek took place in May 1814, two
                  > months after LaColle. Pring does mention the capture of a small
                  > vessel and talking to two prisoners about the American ship building
                  > efforts up Otter Creek at Vergennes. He also mentions sailing to
                  > Plattsburgh and Burlington to check on any building efforts going on
                  > in those ports. He then sails back to Ile-aux-Noix with the
                  > knowledge that the Americans are building a large vessel and the
                  > need for the British to follow suit. His letter is addressed to a
                  > Colonel William Williams, British Army, and in it, he suggests that
                  > any artificers from the regiments be assembled to work on the new
                  > vessel. Without any other letters from Pring, its hard to know what
                  > else he may have captured while on Lake Champlain in May 1814.
                  > >
                  > > The raids that resulted in the destruction/capture of some
                  > American vessels on Lake Champlain took place in August 1813.
                  > >
                  > > Cheers,
                  > >
                  > > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                  > > 1812 Royal Marines
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: suthren@...
                  > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:37 AM
                  > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Ray
                  > >
                  > > No other circumstance of a major US naval loss took place on
                  > Lake Champlain,
                  > > with the possible exception of some schooners taken during a
                  > major British
                  > > foray in 1813 that got as far south as the mouth of Otter Creek,
                  > where they
                  > > bombarded a battery guarding the creek mouth (McDonough's fleet
                  > was up that
                  > > creek). Possibly the Colour was retained at Ile-aux-Noix and
                  > came into the
                  > > possession of the Regiment by indirect means. Otherwise I'm
                  > stumped.
                  > >
                  > > Vic
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                  > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:20 AM
                  > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                  > >
                  > > > Vic et al.
                  > > > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived
                  > in the
                  > > > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours
                  > from that
                  > > > encounter.
                  > > > Ray
                  > > >
                  > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 4:29 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > > I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American
                  > schooners taken
                  > > > > at
                  > > > > Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Vic
                  > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                  > > > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
                  > > > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > > Hi Peter:
                  > > > > > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one
                  > in Lower
                  > > > > > Canada, and the other in New York State.
                  > > > > > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the
                  > UK do not
                  > > > > > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
                  > > > > > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at
                  > Plattsburgh,
                  > > > > although
                  > > > > > I do not recall ever reading of that.
                  > > > > > Yrs etc.
                  > > > > > Ray
                  > > > > > 41st Regt.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at
                  > > > > Taunton. This
                  > > > > > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment
                  > of Foot
                  > > > > which
                  > > > > > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince
                  > Albert's) and
                  > > > > are now
                  > > > > > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada
                  > from
                  > > > > 1813-1815
                  > > > > > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval
                  > colour
                  > > > > captured
                  > > > > > > on
                  > > > > > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff
                  > on duty
                  > > > > > > didn't
                  > > > > > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the
                  > War of
                  > > > > 1812
                  > > > > > > :-)
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Thought you might be interested.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Cheers
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > P**
                  > > > > > > In Pensioner, RHC
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate
                  > of
                  > > > > hundreds of
                  > > > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate
                  > of
                  > > > > THOUSANDS of
                  > > > > square miles...
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                  > > > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                  > > > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                  > > > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                  > > > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                  > > > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                  > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > --
                  > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                  > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                  > > > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release
                  > Date:
                  > > > > 02/10/06
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                  > hundreds of
                  > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                  > THOUSANDS of
                  > > square miles...
                  > > >
                  > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                  > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                  > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                  > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                  > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                  > > >
                  > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                  > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --
                  > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                  > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                  > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release
                  > Date: 02/10/06
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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