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Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.

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  • BritcomHMP@aol.com
    In a message dated 04/10/2006 06:30:33 Central Standard Time, ray.hobbs@sympatico.ca writes: That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived in
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 4, 2006
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      In a message dated 04/10/2006 06:30:33 Central Standard Time,
      ray.hobbs@... writes:

      That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived in the
      country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours from that




      But is there a possibility that the colours were presented to the 13th at
      some later date? I know of at least one instance where an army officer (George
      DeLacy Evans ) was presented with one of the 'Tripoli' swords captured by the
      RN in Washington for later service with RN forces (the battle of Lake
      Bourne).

      Just a thought,

      Tim


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ray Hobbs
      Of course, it is possible Tim. But with the regimental historian so ignorant of the War of 1812, it is unlikely that we shall find the proof. I have written to
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 4, 2006
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        Of course, it is possible Tim. But with the regimental historian so
        ignorant of the War of 1812, it is unlikely that we shall find the
        proof.
        I have written to the Regimental Museum to see if they can unravel the
        mystery.
        Ray

        On 4-Oct-06, at 9:31 AM, BritcomHMP@... wrote:

        >
        > In a message dated 04/10/2006 06:30:33 Central Standard Time,
        > ray.hobbs@... writes:
        >
        > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived in the
        > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours from that
        >
        > But is there a possibility that the colours were presented to the
        > 13th at
        > some later date? I know of at least one instance where an army
        > officer (George
        > DeLacy Evans ) was presented with one of the 'Tripoli' swords
        > captured by the
        > RN in Washington for later service with RN forces (the battle of Lake
        > Bourne).
        >
        > Just a thought,
        >
        > Tim
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Armchairadm@cs.com
        Vic Suthern wrote... I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American schooners taken at Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River. That would be my guess as
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 4, 2006
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          Vic Suthern wrote...

          I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American schooners taken
          at
          Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.


          That would be my guess as well. I know of no other US Naval vessels taken
          on Lake Champlaine during the course of the war.

          Ed B.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • LCpl_rm
          Vic, The foray into Lake Champlain by Pring and the bombardment of the Ft Cassin at the mouth of Otter Creek took place in May 1814, two months after LaColle.
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 4, 2006
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            Vic,

            The foray into Lake Champlain by Pring and the bombardment of the Ft Cassin at the mouth of Otter Creek took place in May 1814, two months after LaColle. Pring does mention the capture of a small vessel and talking to two prisoners about the American ship building efforts up Otter Creek at Vergennes. He also mentions sailing to Plattsburgh and Burlington to check on any building efforts going on in those ports. He then sails back to Ile-aux-Noix with the knowledge that the Americans are building a large vessel and the need for the British to follow suit. His letter is addressed to a Colonel William Williams, British Army, and in it, he suggests that any artificers from the regiments be assembled to work on the new vessel. Without any other letters from Pring, its hard to know what else he may have captured while on Lake Champlain in May 1814.

            The raids that resulted in the destruction/capture of some American vessels on Lake Champlain took place in August 1813.

            Cheers,

            Ed Seufert, Cpl
            1812 Royal Marines
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: suthren@...
            To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:37 AM
            Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.


            Ray

            No other circumstance of a major US naval loss took place on Lake Champlain,
            with the possible exception of some schooners taken during a major British
            foray in 1813 that got as far south as the mouth of Otter Creek, where they
            bombarded a battery guarding the creek mouth (McDonough's fleet was up that
            creek). Possibly the Colour was retained at Ile-aux-Noix and came into the
            possession of the Regiment by indirect means. Otherwise I'm stumped.

            Vic
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
            To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:20 AM
            Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.

            > Vic et al.
            > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived in the
            > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours from that
            > encounter.
            > Ray
            >
            > On 3-Oct-06, at 4:29 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:
            >
            > > I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American schooners taken
            > > at
            > > Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.
            > >
            > > Vic
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
            > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
            > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
            > >
            > > > Hi Peter:
            > > > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one in Lower
            > > > Canada, and the other in New York State.
            > > > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the UK do not
            > > > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
            > > > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at Plattsburgh,
            > > although
            > > > I do not recall ever reading of that.
            > > > Yrs etc.
            > > > Ray
            > > > 41st Regt.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
            > > >
            > > > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at
            > > Taunton. This
            > > > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment of Foot
            > > which
            > > > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince Albert's) and
            > > are now
            > > > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada from
            > > 1813-1815
            > > > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
            > > > >
            > > > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval colour
            > > captured
            > > > > on
            > > > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff on duty
            > > > > didn't
            > > > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the War of
            > > 1812
            > > > > :-)
            > > > >
            > > > > Thought you might be interested.
            > > > >
            > > > > Cheers
            > > > >
            > > > > P**
            > > > > In Pensioner, RHC
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
            > > hundreds of
            > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
            > > THOUSANDS of
            > > square miles...
            > > >
            > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
            > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            > > > American Forces Unit Listing
            > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            > > >
            > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
            > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --
            > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date:
            > > 02/10/06
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
            square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
            square miles...
            >
            > Unit Contact information for North America:
            > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            > American Forces Unit Listing
            > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            >
            > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
            > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date: 02/10/06
            >
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • suthren@magma.ca
            Thanks, Ed. As usual, your detailed knowledge is admirable. Glad for the correct story. Vic ... From: LCpl_rm To:
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 5, 2006
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              Thanks, Ed. As usual, your detailed knowledge is admirable. Glad for the
              correct story.

              Vic
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "LCpl_rm" <LCpl_RM@...>
              To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:43 PM
              Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.


              > Vic,
              >
              > The foray into Lake Champlain by Pring and the bombardment of the Ft
              Cassin at the mouth of Otter Creek took place in May 1814, two months after
              LaColle. Pring does mention the capture of a small vessel and talking to
              two prisoners about the American ship building efforts up Otter Creek at
              Vergennes. He also mentions sailing to Plattsburgh and Burlington to check
              on any building efforts going on in those ports. He then sails back to
              Ile-aux-Noix with the knowledge that the Americans are building a large
              vessel and the need for the British to follow suit. His letter is addressed
              to a Colonel William Williams, British Army, and in it, he suggests that any
              artificers from the regiments be assembled to work on the new vessel.
              Without any other letters from Pring, its hard to know what else he may have
              captured while on Lake Champlain in May 1814.
              >
              > The raids that resulted in the destruction/capture of some American
              vessels on Lake Champlain took place in August 1813.
              >
              > Cheers,
              >
              > Ed Seufert, Cpl
              > 1812 Royal Marines
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: suthren@...
              > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:37 AM
              > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
              >
              >
              > Ray
              >
              > No other circumstance of a major US naval loss took place on Lake
              Champlain,
              > with the possible exception of some schooners taken during a major
              British
              > foray in 1813 that got as far south as the mouth of Otter Creek, where
              they
              > bombarded a battery guarding the creek mouth (McDonough's fleet was up
              that
              > creek). Possibly the Colour was retained at Ile-aux-Noix and came into
              the
              > possession of the Regiment by indirect means. Otherwise I'm stumped.
              >
              > Vic
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
              > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:20 AM
              > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
              >
              > > Vic et al.
              > > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived in the
              > > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours from that
              > > encounter.
              > > Ray
              > >
              > > On 3-Oct-06, at 4:29 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > > I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American schooners
              taken
              > > > at
              > > > Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.
              > > >
              > > > Vic
              > > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
              > > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
              > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
              > > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
              > > >
              > > > > Hi Peter:
              > > > > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one in Lower
              > > > > Canada, and the other in New York State.
              > > > > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the UK do
              not
              > > > > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
              > > > > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at Plattsburgh,
              > > > although
              > > > > I do not recall ever reading of that.
              > > > > Yrs etc.
              > > > > Ray
              > > > > 41st Regt.
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at
              > > > Taunton. This
              > > > > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment of Foot
              > > > which
              > > > > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince Albert's) and
              > > > are now
              > > > > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada from
              > > > 1813-1815
              > > > > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
              > > > > >
              > > > > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval colour
              > > > captured
              > > > > > on
              > > > > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff on duty
              > > > > > didn't
              > > > > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the War of
              > > > 1812
              > > > > > :-)
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Thought you might be interested.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Cheers
              > > > > >
              > > > > > P**
              > > > > > In Pensioner, RHC
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
              > > > hundreds of
              > > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
              > > > THOUSANDS of
              > > > square miles...
              > > > >
              > > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
              > > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              > > > > American Forces Unit Listing
              > > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              > > > >
              > > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
              > > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
              > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > --
              > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
              > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              > > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date:
              > > > 02/10/06
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
              of
              > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
              THOUSANDS of
              > square miles...
              > >
              > > Unit Contact information for North America:
              > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              > > American Forces Unit Listing
              > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              > >
              > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
              > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --
              > > No virus found in this incoming message.
              > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date:
              02/10/06
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
              square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
              square miles...
              >
              > Unit Contact information for North America:
              > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              > American Forces Unit Listing
              > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              >
              > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
              > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > No virus found in this incoming message.
              > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/462 - Release Date: 03/10/06
              >
              >
            • Ed Seufert
              Further research shows that Lt. Col. William Williams is the commander of the 13th Foot. The article on the Battle of Lacolle Mills by Robert Henderson on
              Message 6 of 14 , Oct 6, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Further research shows that Lt. Col. William Williams is the
                commander of the 13th Foot. The article on the Battle of Lacolle
                Mills by Robert Henderson on Discriminating General (go to
                http://www.warof1812.ca/lacolle.htm ) has the after action report by
                LTC Williams noting that he's "Comg. At St Johns" which is probably
                St-Jean-sur-Richelieu. Ltc Williams notes that Maj Handcock
                was "exceedingly indebted to Capt Pring" for aiding in the defense
                of the Mill.

                Noting the friendship in the letter from Pring to Williams in May
                1814, there must have been a good working relationship between the
                two. The US Naval colour in the possession of the Somerset LI
                Museum may be nothing more than a memento from one officer to
                another in thanks for their working together.

                On the other hand, the following is listed on the Somerset LI Museum
                Website.

                "Many uniforms from the 18th century to modern times.
                There are several prized items of Regimental interest including the
                last Colours carried by the Somerset Light Infantry and a United
                States naval flag which was captured by the 13th of Foot in Canada
                in 1813."

                If the 13th was posted to Canada in 1813, they may have had a hand
                in the capture of the two US vessels in the Richelieu. Does anyone
                know the date that the 13th arrived in Canada?

                Cheers,

                Ed Seufert, Cpl
                1812 Royal Marines


                --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "LCpl_rm" <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:
                >
                > Vic,
                >
                > The foray into Lake Champlain by Pring and the bombardment of the
                Ft Cassin at the mouth of Otter Creek took place in May 1814, two
                months after LaColle. Pring does mention the capture of a small
                vessel and talking to two prisoners about the American ship building
                efforts up Otter Creek at Vergennes. He also mentions sailing to
                Plattsburgh and Burlington to check on any building efforts going on
                in those ports. He then sails back to Ile-aux-Noix with the
                knowledge that the Americans are building a large vessel and the
                need for the British to follow suit. His letter is addressed to a
                Colonel William Williams, British Army, and in it, he suggests that
                any artificers from the regiments be assembled to work on the new
                vessel. Without any other letters from Pring, its hard to know what
                else he may have captured while on Lake Champlain in May 1814.
                >
                > The raids that resulted in the destruction/capture of some
                American vessels on Lake Champlain took place in August 1813.
                >
                > Cheers,
                >
                > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                > 1812 Royal Marines
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: suthren@...
                > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:37 AM
                > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                >
                >
                > Ray
                >
                > No other circumstance of a major US naval loss took place on
                Lake Champlain,
                > with the possible exception of some schooners taken during a
                major British
                > foray in 1813 that got as far south as the mouth of Otter Creek,
                where they
                > bombarded a battery guarding the creek mouth (McDonough's fleet
                was up that
                > creek). Possibly the Colour was retained at Ile-aux-Noix and
                came into the
                > possession of the Regiment by indirect means. Otherwise I'm
                stumped.
                >
                > Vic
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:20 AM
                > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                >
                > > Vic et al.
                > > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived
                in the
                > > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours
                from that
                > > encounter.
                > > Ray
                > >
                > > On 3-Oct-06, at 4:29 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > > I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American
                schooners taken
                > > > at
                > > > Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.
                > > >
                > > > Vic
                > > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                > > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
                > > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                > > >
                > > > > Hi Peter:
                > > > > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one
                in Lower
                > > > > Canada, and the other in New York State.
                > > > > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the
                UK do not
                > > > > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
                > > > > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at
                Plattsburgh,
                > > > although
                > > > > I do not recall ever reading of that.
                > > > > Yrs etc.
                > > > > Ray
                > > > > 41st Regt.
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at
                > > > Taunton. This
                > > > > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment
                of Foot
                > > > which
                > > > > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince
                Albert's) and
                > > > are now
                > > > > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada
                from
                > > > 1813-1815
                > > > > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
                > > > > >
                > > > > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval
                colour
                > > > captured
                > > > > > on
                > > > > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff
                on duty
                > > > > > didn't
                > > > > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the
                War of
                > > > 1812
                > > > > > :-)
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Thought you might be interested.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Cheers
                > > > > >
                > > > > > P**
                > > > > > In Pensioner, RHC
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate
                of
                > > > hundreds of
                > > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate
                of
                > > > THOUSANDS of
                > > > square miles...
                > > > >
                > > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                > > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                > > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                > > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                > > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                > > > >
                > > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                > > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > --
                > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                > > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release
                Date:
                > > > 02/10/06
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                hundreds of
                > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                THOUSANDS of
                > square miles...
                > >
                > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                > > American Forces Unit Listing
                > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                > >
                > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --
                > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release
                Date: 02/10/06
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Ray Hobbs
                Ed: The 13th arrived in Canada in 1813 to undergo light Infantry training. They are not listed among the participants of the Battle of Ile aux noix, which is
                Message 7 of 14 , Oct 6, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Ed:
                  The 13th arrived in Canada in 1813 to undergo light Infantry training.
                  They are not listed among the participants of the Battle of Ile aux
                  noix, which is also St. John's or the Richlieu River. This took place
                  on June 3rd, 1813. This is the encounter in which two US ships were
                  captured - Growler and Eagle.
                  The first listed engagement of the 13th - from numerous sources - is
                  the one which followed over a month later, and was a looting expedition
                  which went as far as Burlington Vermont.
                  It was under the command of Murray of the 100th, and the British troops
                  consisted of detachments of the 100th, 13th, 104th, Canadian Fencibles,
                  Select Embodied Militia and Royal Artillery.
                  The raid was severely criticised by both sides for its wanton
                  destruction of private property.
                  However, as far as I know, no ships were involved in this one.
                  Still digging.
                  Yrs with respect
                  Ray
                  41st

                  On 6-Oct-06, at 11:35 AM, Ed Seufert wrote:
                  >
                  > On the other hand, the following is listed on the Somerset LI Museum
                  > Website.
                  >
                  > "Many uniforms from the 18th century to modern times.
                  > There are several prized items of Regimental interest including the
                  > last Colours carried by the Somerset Light Infantry and a United
                  > States naval flag which was captured by the 13th of Foot in Canada
                  > in 1813."
                  >
                  > If the 13th was posted to Canada in 1813, they may have had a hand
                  > in the capture of the two US vessels in the Richelieu. Does anyone
                  > know the date that the 13th arrived in Canada?
                  >
                  > Cheers,
                  >
                  > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                  > 1812 Royal Marines
                  >
                  > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "LCpl_rm" <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Vic,
                  > >
                  > > The foray into Lake Champlain by Pring and the bombardment of the
                  > Ft Cassin at the mouth of Otter Creek took place in May 1814, two
                  > months after LaColle. Pring does mention the capture of a small
                  > vessel and talking to two prisoners about the American ship building
                  > efforts up Otter Creek at Vergennes. He also mentions sailing to
                  > Plattsburgh and Burlington to check on any building efforts going on
                  > in those ports. He then sails back to Ile-aux-Noix with the
                  > knowledge that the Americans are building a large vessel and the
                  > need for the British to follow suit. His letter is addressed to a
                  > Colonel William Williams, British Army, and in it, he suggests that
                  > any artificers from the regiments be assembled to work on the new
                  > vessel. Without any other letters from Pring, its hard to know what
                  > else he may have captured while on Lake Champlain in May 1814.
                  > >
                  > > The raids that resulted in the destruction/capture of some
                  > American vessels on Lake Champlain took place in August 1813.
                  > >
                  > > Cheers,
                  > >
                  > > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                  > > 1812 Royal Marines
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: suthren@...
                  > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:37 AM
                  > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Ray
                  > >
                  > > No other circumstance of a major US naval loss took place on
                  > Lake Champlain,
                  > > with the possible exception of some schooners taken during a
                  > major British
                  > > foray in 1813 that got as far south as the mouth of Otter Creek,
                  > where they
                  > > bombarded a battery guarding the creek mouth (McDonough's fleet
                  > was up that
                  > > creek). Possibly the Colour was retained at Ile-aux-Noix and
                  > came into the
                  > > possession of the Regiment by indirect means. Otherwise I'm
                  > stumped.
                  > >
                  > > Vic
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                  > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:20 AM
                  > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                  > >
                  > > > Vic et al.
                  > > > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived
                  > in the
                  > > > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours
                  > from that
                  > > > encounter.
                  > > > Ray
                  > > >
                  > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 4:29 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > > I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American
                  > schooners taken
                  > > > > at
                  > > > > Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Vic
                  > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                  > > > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
                  > > > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > > Hi Peter:
                  > > > > > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one
                  > in Lower
                  > > > > > Canada, and the other in New York State.
                  > > > > > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the
                  > UK do not
                  > > > > > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
                  > > > > > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at
                  > Plattsburgh,
                  > > > > although
                  > > > > > I do not recall ever reading of that.
                  > > > > > Yrs etc.
                  > > > > > Ray
                  > > > > > 41st Regt.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at
                  > > > > Taunton. This
                  > > > > > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment
                  > of Foot
                  > > > > which
                  > > > > > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince
                  > Albert's) and
                  > > > > are now
                  > > > > > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada
                  > from
                  > > > > 1813-1815
                  > > > > > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval
                  > colour
                  > > > > captured
                  > > > > > > on
                  > > > > > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff
                  > on duty
                  > > > > > > didn't
                  > > > > > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the
                  > War of
                  > > > > 1812
                  > > > > > > :-)
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Thought you might be interested.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Cheers
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > P**
                  > > > > > > In Pensioner, RHC
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate
                  > of
                  > > > > hundreds of
                  > > > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate
                  > of
                  > > > > THOUSANDS of
                  > > > > square miles...
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                  > > > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                  > > > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                  > > > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                  > > > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                  > > > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                  > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > --
                  > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                  > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                  > > > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release
                  > Date:
                  > > > > 02/10/06
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                  > hundreds of
                  > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                  > THOUSANDS of
                  > > square miles...
                  > > >
                  > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                  > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                  > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                  > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                  > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                  > > >
                  > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                  > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --
                  > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                  > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                  > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release
                  > Date: 02/10/06
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • LCpl_rm
                  Ray, Thanks for the information. It looks like the 13th arrived in the Montreal area around the end of June and was pushed up to St Johns. What I m reading is
                  Message 8 of 14 , Oct 6, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Ray,

                    Thanks for the information.

                    It looks like the 13th arrived in the Montreal area around the end of June and was pushed up to St Johns.

                    What I'm reading is that the Army raids into the Lake Champlain area left Isle Aux Noix on July 29th and Plattsburgh, Champlain and Swanton were attacked with all military supplies, barracks, works destroyed or carried off. The force returned on Aug 3. Murray's second in command is Ltc Williams of the 13th Foot. (Swanton is in Vermont near the border.)

                    I say Army raids as Murray says in his letter to Major General Sheaffe, dated the 3rd, that the Naval portion under Captains Everard and Pring "is still cruising on the Lake". This force returned on the 4th after sailing over to Burlington and trying to entice the American naval forces out onto the Lake. Not being successful there, they captured 4 vessels about 20 miles above Burlington and then returned. Everard reported that there was a large force of Americans (5000) encamped at Burlington and that the American ships were moored under a high bank upon which was artillery. There is no mention of landing at Burlington or conducting any raids ashore.

                    Everard in his report spells Pring as Pryng.

                    Cheers,

                    Ed Seufert, Cpl
                    1812 Royal Marines
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Ray Hobbs
                    To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 11:54 AM
                    Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Re: Taunton Castle Military Museum.


                    Ed:
                    The 13th arrived in Canada in 1813 to undergo light Infantry training.
                    They are not listed among the participants of the Battle of Ile aux
                    noix, which is also St. John's or the Richlieu River. This took place
                    on June 3rd, 1813. This is the encounter in which two US ships were
                    captured - Growler and Eagle.
                    The first listed engagement of the 13th - from numerous sources - is
                    the one which followed over a month later, and was a looting expedition
                    which went as far as Burlington Vermont.
                    It was under the command of Murray of the 100th, and the British troops
                    consisted of detachments of the 100th, 13th, 104th, Canadian Fencibles,
                    Select Embodied Militia and Royal Artillery.
                    The raid was severely criticised by both sides for its wanton
                    destruction of private property.
                    However, as far as I know, no ships were involved in this one.
                    Still digging.
                    Yrs with respect
                    Ray
                    41st

                    On 6-Oct-06, at 11:35 AM, Ed Seufert wrote:
                    >
                    > On the other hand, the following is listed on the Somerset LI Museum
                    > Website.
                    >
                    > "Many uniforms from the 18th century to modern times.
                    > There are several prized items of Regimental interest including the
                    > last Colours carried by the Somerset Light Infantry and a United
                    > States naval flag which was captured by the 13th of Foot in Canada
                    > in 1813."
                    >
                    > If the 13th was posted to Canada in 1813, they may have had a hand
                    > in the capture of the two US vessels in the Richelieu. Does anyone
                    > know the date that the 13th arrived in Canada?
                    >
                    > Cheers,
                    >
                    > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                    > 1812 Royal Marines
                    >
                    > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "LCpl_rm" <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Vic,
                    > >
                    > > The foray into Lake Champlain by Pring and the bombardment of the
                    > Ft Cassin at the mouth of Otter Creek took place in May 1814, two
                    > months after LaColle. Pring does mention the capture of a small
                    > vessel and talking to two prisoners about the American ship building
                    > efforts up Otter Creek at Vergennes. He also mentions sailing to
                    > Plattsburgh and Burlington to check on any building efforts going on
                    > in those ports. He then sails back to Ile-aux-Noix with the
                    > knowledge that the Americans are building a large vessel and the
                    > need for the British to follow suit. His letter is addressed to a
                    > Colonel William Williams, British Army, and in it, he suggests that
                    > any artificers from the regiments be assembled to work on the new
                    > vessel. Without any other letters from Pring, its hard to know what
                    > else he may have captured while on Lake Champlain in May 1814.
                    > >
                    > > The raids that resulted in the destruction/capture of some
                    > American vessels on Lake Champlain took place in August 1813.
                    > >
                    > > Cheers,
                    > >
                    > > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                    > > 1812 Royal Marines
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: suthren@...
                    > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:37 AM
                    > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Ray
                    > >
                    > > No other circumstance of a major US naval loss took place on
                    > Lake Champlain,
                    > > with the possible exception of some schooners taken during a
                    > major British
                    > > foray in 1813 that got as far south as the mouth of Otter Creek,
                    > where they
                    > > bombarded a battery guarding the creek mouth (McDonough's fleet
                    > was up that
                    > > creek). Possibly the Colour was retained at Ile-aux-Noix and
                    > came into the
                    > > possession of the Regiment by indirect means. Otherwise I'm
                    > stumped.
                    > >
                    > > Vic
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                    > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:20 AM
                    > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                    > >
                    > > > Vic et al.
                    > > > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived
                    > in the
                    > > > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours
                    > from that
                    > > > encounter.
                    > > > Ray
                    > > >
                    > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 4:29 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > > I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American
                    > schooners taken
                    > > > > at
                    > > > > Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Vic
                    > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                    > > > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
                    > > > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > > Hi Peter:
                    > > > > > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one
                    > in Lower
                    > > > > > Canada, and the other in New York State.
                    > > > > > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the
                    > UK do not
                    > > > > > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
                    > > > > > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at
                    > Plattsburgh,
                    > > > > although
                    > > > > > I do not recall ever reading of that.
                    > > > > > Yrs etc.
                    > > > > > Ray
                    > > > > > 41st Regt.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at
                    > > > > Taunton. This
                    > > > > > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment
                    > of Foot
                    > > > > which
                    > > > > > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince
                    > Albert's) and
                    > > > > are now
                    > > > > > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada
                    > from
                    > > > > 1813-1815
                    > > > > > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval
                    > colour
                    > > > > captured
                    > > > > > > on
                    > > > > > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff
                    > on duty
                    > > > > > > didn't
                    > > > > > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the
                    > War of
                    > > > > 1812
                    > > > > > > :-)
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Thought you might be interested.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Cheers
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > P**
                    > > > > > > In Pensioner, RHC
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate
                    > of
                    > > > > hundreds of
                    > > > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate
                    > of
                    > > > > THOUSANDS of
                    > > > > square miles...
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                    > > > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                    > > > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                    > > > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                    > > > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                    > > > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                    > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > --
                    > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                    > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                    > > > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release
                    > Date:
                    > > > > 02/10/06
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                    > hundreds of
                    > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                    > THOUSANDS of
                    > > square miles...
                    > > >
                    > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                    > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                    > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                    > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                    > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                    > > >
                    > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                    > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --
                    > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                    > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                    > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release
                    > Date: 02/10/06
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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