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Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.

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  • Ray Hobbs
    Hi Peter: The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one in Lower Canada, and the other in New York State. It does not surprise me that regimental
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 3, 2006
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      Hi Peter:
      The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one in Lower
      Canada, and the other in New York State.
      It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the UK do not
      know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
      I suspect that the naval colours were captured at Plattsburgh, although
      I do not recall ever reading of that.
      Yrs etc.
      Ray
      41st Regt.


      On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:

      > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at Taunton. This
      > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment of Foot which
      > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince Albert's) and are now
      > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada from 1813-1815
      > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
      >
      > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval colour captured
      > on
      > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff on duty
      > didn't
      > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the War of 1812
      > :-)
      >
      > Thought you might be interested.
      >
      > Cheers
      >
      > P**
      > In Pensioner, RHC
      >
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • suthren@magma.ca
      I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American schooners taken at Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River. Vic ... From: Ray Hobbs
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 3, 2006
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        I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American schooners taken at
        Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.

        Vic
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
        To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
        Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.


        > Hi Peter:
        > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one in Lower
        > Canada, and the other in New York State.
        > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the UK do not
        > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
        > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at Plattsburgh, although
        > I do not recall ever reading of that.
        > Yrs etc.
        > Ray
        > 41st Regt.
        >
        >
        > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
        >
        > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at Taunton. This
        > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment of Foot which
        > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince Albert's) and are now
        > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada from 1813-1815
        > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
        > >
        > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval colour captured
        > > on
        > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff on duty
        > > didn't
        > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the War of 1812
        > > :-)
        > >
        > > Thought you might be interested.
        > >
        > > Cheers
        > >
        > > P**
        > > In Pensioner, RHC
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
        square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
        square miles...
        >
        > Unit Contact information for North America:
        > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
        > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
        > American Forces Unit Listing
        > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
        >
        > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
        > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
        > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date: 02/10/06
        >
        >
      • Ray Hobbs
        Vic et al. That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived in the country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours from that encounter.
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 4, 2006
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          Vic et al.
          That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived in the
          country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours from that
          encounter.
          Ray

          On 3-Oct-06, at 4:29 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:

          > I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American schooners taken
          > at
          > Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.
          >
          > Vic
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
          > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
          > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
          >
          > > Hi Peter:
          > > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one in Lower
          > > Canada, and the other in New York State.
          > > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the UK do not
          > > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
          > > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at Plattsburgh,
          > although
          > > I do not recall ever reading of that.
          > > Yrs etc.
          > > Ray
          > > 41st Regt.
          > >
          > >
          > > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
          > >
          > > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at
          > Taunton. This
          > > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment of Foot
          > which
          > > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince Albert's) and
          > are now
          > > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada from
          > 1813-1815
          > > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
          > > >
          > > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval colour
          > captured
          > > > on
          > > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff on duty
          > > > didn't
          > > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the War of
          > 1812
          > > > :-)
          > > >
          > > > Thought you might be interested.
          > > >
          > > > Cheers
          > > >
          > > > P**
          > > > In Pensioner, RHC
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
          > hundreds of
          > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
          > THOUSANDS of
          > square miles...
          > >
          > > Unit Contact information for North America:
          > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          > > American Forces Unit Listing
          > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
          > >
          > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
          > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --
          > > No virus found in this incoming message.
          > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date:
          > 02/10/06
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • suthren@magma.ca
          Ray No other circumstance of a major US naval loss took place on Lake Champlain, with the possible exception of some schooners taken during a major British
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 4, 2006
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            Ray

            No other circumstance of a major US naval loss took place on Lake Champlain,
            with the possible exception of some schooners taken during a major British
            foray in 1813 that got as far south as the mouth of Otter Creek, where they
            bombarded a battery guarding the creek mouth (McDonough's fleet was up that
            creek). Possibly the Colour was retained at Ile-aux-Noix and came into the
            possession of the Regiment by indirect means. Otherwise I'm stumped.

            Vic
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
            To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:20 AM
            Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.


            > Vic et al.
            > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived in the
            > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours from that
            > encounter.
            > Ray
            >
            > On 3-Oct-06, at 4:29 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:
            >
            > > I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American schooners taken
            > > at
            > > Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.
            > >
            > > Vic
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
            > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
            > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
            > >
            > > > Hi Peter:
            > > > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one in Lower
            > > > Canada, and the other in New York State.
            > > > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the UK do not
            > > > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
            > > > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at Plattsburgh,
            > > although
            > > > I do not recall ever reading of that.
            > > > Yrs etc.
            > > > Ray
            > > > 41st Regt.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
            > > >
            > > > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at
            > > Taunton. This
            > > > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment of Foot
            > > which
            > > > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince Albert's) and
            > > are now
            > > > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada from
            > > 1813-1815
            > > > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
            > > > >
            > > > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval colour
            > > captured
            > > > > on
            > > > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff on duty
            > > > > didn't
            > > > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the War of
            > > 1812
            > > > > :-)
            > > > >
            > > > > Thought you might be interested.
            > > > >
            > > > > Cheers
            > > > >
            > > > > P**
            > > > > In Pensioner, RHC
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
            > > hundreds of
            > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
            > > THOUSANDS of
            > > square miles...
            > > >
            > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
            > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            > > > American Forces Unit Listing
            > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            > > >
            > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
            > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --
            > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date:
            > > 02/10/06
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
            square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
            square miles...
            >
            > Unit Contact information for North America:
            > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            > American Forces Unit Listing
            > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            >
            > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
            > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date: 02/10/06
            >
            >
          • BritcomHMP@aol.com
            In a message dated 04/10/2006 06:30:33 Central Standard Time, ray.hobbs@sympatico.ca writes: That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived in
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 4, 2006
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              In a message dated 04/10/2006 06:30:33 Central Standard Time,
              ray.hobbs@... writes:

              That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived in the
              country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours from that




              But is there a possibility that the colours were presented to the 13th at
              some later date? I know of at least one instance where an army officer (George
              DeLacy Evans ) was presented with one of the 'Tripoli' swords captured by the
              RN in Washington for later service with RN forces (the battle of Lake
              Bourne).

              Just a thought,

              Tim


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ray Hobbs
              Of course, it is possible Tim. But with the regimental historian so ignorant of the War of 1812, it is unlikely that we shall find the proof. I have written to
              Message 6 of 14 , Oct 4, 2006
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                Of course, it is possible Tim. But with the regimental historian so
                ignorant of the War of 1812, it is unlikely that we shall find the
                proof.
                I have written to the Regimental Museum to see if they can unravel the
                mystery.
                Ray

                On 4-Oct-06, at 9:31 AM, BritcomHMP@... wrote:

                >
                > In a message dated 04/10/2006 06:30:33 Central Standard Time,
                > ray.hobbs@... writes:
                >
                > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived in the
                > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours from that
                >
                > But is there a possibility that the colours were presented to the
                > 13th at
                > some later date? I know of at least one instance where an army
                > officer (George
                > DeLacy Evans ) was presented with one of the 'Tripoli' swords
                > captured by the
                > RN in Washington for later service with RN forces (the battle of Lake
                > Bourne).
                >
                > Just a thought,
                >
                > Tim
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Armchairadm@cs.com
                Vic Suthern wrote... I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American schooners taken at Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River. That would be my guess as
                Message 7 of 14 , Oct 4, 2006
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                  Vic Suthern wrote...

                  I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American schooners taken
                  at
                  Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.


                  That would be my guess as well. I know of no other US Naval vessels taken
                  on Lake Champlaine during the course of the war.

                  Ed B.


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • LCpl_rm
                  Vic, The foray into Lake Champlain by Pring and the bombardment of the Ft Cassin at the mouth of Otter Creek took place in May 1814, two months after LaColle.
                  Message 8 of 14 , Oct 4, 2006
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                    Vic,

                    The foray into Lake Champlain by Pring and the bombardment of the Ft Cassin at the mouth of Otter Creek took place in May 1814, two months after LaColle. Pring does mention the capture of a small vessel and talking to two prisoners about the American ship building efforts up Otter Creek at Vergennes. He also mentions sailing to Plattsburgh and Burlington to check on any building efforts going on in those ports. He then sails back to Ile-aux-Noix with the knowledge that the Americans are building a large vessel and the need for the British to follow suit. His letter is addressed to a Colonel William Williams, British Army, and in it, he suggests that any artificers from the regiments be assembled to work on the new vessel. Without any other letters from Pring, its hard to know what else he may have captured while on Lake Champlain in May 1814.

                    The raids that resulted in the destruction/capture of some American vessels on Lake Champlain took place in August 1813.

                    Cheers,

                    Ed Seufert, Cpl
                    1812 Royal Marines
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: suthren@...
                    To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:37 AM
                    Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.


                    Ray

                    No other circumstance of a major US naval loss took place on Lake Champlain,
                    with the possible exception of some schooners taken during a major British
                    foray in 1813 that got as far south as the mouth of Otter Creek, where they
                    bombarded a battery guarding the creek mouth (McDonough's fleet was up that
                    creek). Possibly the Colour was retained at Ile-aux-Noix and came into the
                    possession of the Regiment by indirect means. Otherwise I'm stumped.

                    Vic
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                    To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:20 AM
                    Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.

                    > Vic et al.
                    > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived in the
                    > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours from that
                    > encounter.
                    > Ray
                    >
                    > On 3-Oct-06, at 4:29 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American schooners taken
                    > > at
                    > > Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.
                    > >
                    > > Vic
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                    > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
                    > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                    > >
                    > > > Hi Peter:
                    > > > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one in Lower
                    > > > Canada, and the other in New York State.
                    > > > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the UK do not
                    > > > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
                    > > > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at Plattsburgh,
                    > > although
                    > > > I do not recall ever reading of that.
                    > > > Yrs etc.
                    > > > Ray
                    > > > 41st Regt.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at
                    > > Taunton. This
                    > > > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment of Foot
                    > > which
                    > > > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince Albert's) and
                    > > are now
                    > > > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada from
                    > > 1813-1815
                    > > > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
                    > > > >
                    > > > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval colour
                    > > captured
                    > > > > on
                    > > > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff on duty
                    > > > > didn't
                    > > > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the War of
                    > > 1812
                    > > > > :-)
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Thought you might be interested.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Cheers
                    > > > >
                    > > > > P**
                    > > > > In Pensioner, RHC
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                    > > hundreds of
                    > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                    > > THOUSANDS of
                    > > square miles...
                    > > >
                    > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                    > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                    > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                    > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                    > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                    > > >
                    > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                    > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --
                    > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                    > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                    > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date:
                    > > 02/10/06
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                    square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                    square miles...
                    >
                    > Unit Contact information for North America:
                    > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                    > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                    > American Forces Unit Listing
                    > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                    >
                    > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                    > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > No virus found in this incoming message.
                    > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                    > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date: 02/10/06
                    >
                    >





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • suthren@magma.ca
                    Thanks, Ed. As usual, your detailed knowledge is admirable. Glad for the correct story. Vic ... From: LCpl_rm To:
                    Message 9 of 14 , Oct 5, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thanks, Ed. As usual, your detailed knowledge is admirable. Glad for the
                      correct story.

                      Vic
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "LCpl_rm" <LCpl_RM@...>
                      To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:43 PM
                      Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.


                      > Vic,
                      >
                      > The foray into Lake Champlain by Pring and the bombardment of the Ft
                      Cassin at the mouth of Otter Creek took place in May 1814, two months after
                      LaColle. Pring does mention the capture of a small vessel and talking to
                      two prisoners about the American ship building efforts up Otter Creek at
                      Vergennes. He also mentions sailing to Plattsburgh and Burlington to check
                      on any building efforts going on in those ports. He then sails back to
                      Ile-aux-Noix with the knowledge that the Americans are building a large
                      vessel and the need for the British to follow suit. His letter is addressed
                      to a Colonel William Williams, British Army, and in it, he suggests that any
                      artificers from the regiments be assembled to work on the new vessel.
                      Without any other letters from Pring, its hard to know what else he may have
                      captured while on Lake Champlain in May 1814.
                      >
                      > The raids that resulted in the destruction/capture of some American
                      vessels on Lake Champlain took place in August 1813.
                      >
                      > Cheers,
                      >
                      > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                      > 1812 Royal Marines
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: suthren@...
                      > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:37 AM
                      > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                      >
                      >
                      > Ray
                      >
                      > No other circumstance of a major US naval loss took place on Lake
                      Champlain,
                      > with the possible exception of some schooners taken during a major
                      British
                      > foray in 1813 that got as far south as the mouth of Otter Creek, where
                      they
                      > bombarded a battery guarding the creek mouth (McDonough's fleet was up
                      that
                      > creek). Possibly the Colour was retained at Ile-aux-Noix and came into
                      the
                      > possession of the Regiment by indirect means. Otherwise I'm stumped.
                      >
                      > Vic
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                      > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:20 AM
                      > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                      >
                      > > Vic et al.
                      > > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived in the
                      > > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours from that
                      > > encounter.
                      > > Ray
                      > >
                      > > On 3-Oct-06, at 4:29 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American schooners
                      taken
                      > > > at
                      > > > Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.
                      > > >
                      > > > Vic
                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                      > > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
                      > > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                      > > >
                      > > > > Hi Peter:
                      > > > > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one in Lower
                      > > > > Canada, and the other in New York State.
                      > > > > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the UK do
                      not
                      > > > > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
                      > > > > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at Plattsburgh,
                      > > > although
                      > > > > I do not recall ever reading of that.
                      > > > > Yrs etc.
                      > > > > Ray
                      > > > > 41st Regt.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at
                      > > > Taunton. This
                      > > > > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment of Foot
                      > > > which
                      > > > > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince Albert's) and
                      > > > are now
                      > > > > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada from
                      > > > 1813-1815
                      > > > > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval colour
                      > > > captured
                      > > > > > on
                      > > > > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff on duty
                      > > > > > didn't
                      > > > > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the War of
                      > > > 1812
                      > > > > > :-)
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Thought you might be interested.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Cheers
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > P**
                      > > > > > In Pensioner, RHC
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                      > > > hundreds of
                      > > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                      > > > THOUSANDS of
                      > > > square miles...
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                      > > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                      > > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                      > > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                      > > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                      > > > >
                      > > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                      > > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                      > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --
                      > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                      > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                      > > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date:
                      > > > 02/10/06
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
                      of
                      > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                      THOUSANDS of
                      > square miles...
                      > >
                      > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                      > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                      > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                      > > American Forces Unit Listing
                      > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                      > >
                      > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                      > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --
                      > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                      > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                      > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date:
                      02/10/06
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                      square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                      square miles...
                      >
                      > Unit Contact information for North America:
                      > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                      > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                      > American Forces Unit Listing
                      > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                      >
                      > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                      > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > No virus found in this incoming message.
                      > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                      > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/462 - Release Date: 03/10/06
                      >
                      >
                    • Ed Seufert
                      Further research shows that Lt. Col. William Williams is the commander of the 13th Foot. The article on the Battle of Lacolle Mills by Robert Henderson on
                      Message 10 of 14 , Oct 6, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Further research shows that Lt. Col. William Williams is the
                        commander of the 13th Foot. The article on the Battle of Lacolle
                        Mills by Robert Henderson on Discriminating General (go to
                        http://www.warof1812.ca/lacolle.htm ) has the after action report by
                        LTC Williams noting that he's "Comg. At St Johns" which is probably
                        St-Jean-sur-Richelieu. Ltc Williams notes that Maj Handcock
                        was "exceedingly indebted to Capt Pring" for aiding in the defense
                        of the Mill.

                        Noting the friendship in the letter from Pring to Williams in May
                        1814, there must have been a good working relationship between the
                        two. The US Naval colour in the possession of the Somerset LI
                        Museum may be nothing more than a memento from one officer to
                        another in thanks for their working together.

                        On the other hand, the following is listed on the Somerset LI Museum
                        Website.

                        "Many uniforms from the 18th century to modern times.
                        There are several prized items of Regimental interest including the
                        last Colours carried by the Somerset Light Infantry and a United
                        States naval flag which was captured by the 13th of Foot in Canada
                        in 1813."

                        If the 13th was posted to Canada in 1813, they may have had a hand
                        in the capture of the two US vessels in the Richelieu. Does anyone
                        know the date that the 13th arrived in Canada?

                        Cheers,

                        Ed Seufert, Cpl
                        1812 Royal Marines


                        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "LCpl_rm" <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Vic,
                        >
                        > The foray into Lake Champlain by Pring and the bombardment of the
                        Ft Cassin at the mouth of Otter Creek took place in May 1814, two
                        months after LaColle. Pring does mention the capture of a small
                        vessel and talking to two prisoners about the American ship building
                        efforts up Otter Creek at Vergennes. He also mentions sailing to
                        Plattsburgh and Burlington to check on any building efforts going on
                        in those ports. He then sails back to Ile-aux-Noix with the
                        knowledge that the Americans are building a large vessel and the
                        need for the British to follow suit. His letter is addressed to a
                        Colonel William Williams, British Army, and in it, he suggests that
                        any artificers from the regiments be assembled to work on the new
                        vessel. Without any other letters from Pring, its hard to know what
                        else he may have captured while on Lake Champlain in May 1814.
                        >
                        > The raids that resulted in the destruction/capture of some
                        American vessels on Lake Champlain took place in August 1813.
                        >
                        > Cheers,
                        >
                        > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                        > 1812 Royal Marines
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: suthren@...
                        > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:37 AM
                        > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                        >
                        >
                        > Ray
                        >
                        > No other circumstance of a major US naval loss took place on
                        Lake Champlain,
                        > with the possible exception of some schooners taken during a
                        major British
                        > foray in 1813 that got as far south as the mouth of Otter Creek,
                        where they
                        > bombarded a battery guarding the creek mouth (McDonough's fleet
                        was up that
                        > creek). Possibly the Colour was retained at Ile-aux-Noix and
                        came into the
                        > possession of the Regiment by indirect means. Otherwise I'm
                        stumped.
                        >
                        > Vic
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                        > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:20 AM
                        > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                        >
                        > > Vic et al.
                        > > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived
                        in the
                        > > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours
                        from that
                        > > encounter.
                        > > Ray
                        > >
                        > > On 3-Oct-06, at 4:29 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American
                        schooners taken
                        > > > at
                        > > > Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.
                        > > >
                        > > > Vic
                        > > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                        > > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                        > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
                        > > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                        > > >
                        > > > > Hi Peter:
                        > > > > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one
                        in Lower
                        > > > > Canada, and the other in New York State.
                        > > > > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the
                        UK do not
                        > > > > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
                        > > > > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at
                        Plattsburgh,
                        > > > although
                        > > > > I do not recall ever reading of that.
                        > > > > Yrs etc.
                        > > > > Ray
                        > > > > 41st Regt.
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at
                        > > > Taunton. This
                        > > > > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment
                        of Foot
                        > > > which
                        > > > > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince
                        Albert's) and
                        > > > are now
                        > > > > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada
                        from
                        > > > 1813-1815
                        > > > > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval
                        colour
                        > > > captured
                        > > > > > on
                        > > > > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff
                        on duty
                        > > > > > didn't
                        > > > > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the
                        War of
                        > > > 1812
                        > > > > > :-)
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Thought you might be interested.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Cheers
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > P**
                        > > > > > In Pensioner, RHC
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate
                        of
                        > > > hundreds of
                        > > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate
                        of
                        > > > THOUSANDS of
                        > > > square miles...
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                        > > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                        > > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                        > > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                        > > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                        > > > >
                        > > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                        > > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                        > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --
                        > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                        > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                        > > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release
                        Date:
                        > > > 02/10/06
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                        hundreds of
                        > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                        THOUSANDS of
                        > square miles...
                        > >
                        > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                        > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                        > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                        > > American Forces Unit Listing
                        > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                        > >
                        > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                        > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --
                        > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                        > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                        > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release
                        Date: 02/10/06
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Ray Hobbs
                        Ed: The 13th arrived in Canada in 1813 to undergo light Infantry training. They are not listed among the participants of the Battle of Ile aux noix, which is
                        Message 11 of 14 , Oct 6, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Ed:
                          The 13th arrived in Canada in 1813 to undergo light Infantry training.
                          They are not listed among the participants of the Battle of Ile aux
                          noix, which is also St. John's or the Richlieu River. This took place
                          on June 3rd, 1813. This is the encounter in which two US ships were
                          captured - Growler and Eagle.
                          The first listed engagement of the 13th - from numerous sources - is
                          the one which followed over a month later, and was a looting expedition
                          which went as far as Burlington Vermont.
                          It was under the command of Murray of the 100th, and the British troops
                          consisted of detachments of the 100th, 13th, 104th, Canadian Fencibles,
                          Select Embodied Militia and Royal Artillery.
                          The raid was severely criticised by both sides for its wanton
                          destruction of private property.
                          However, as far as I know, no ships were involved in this one.
                          Still digging.
                          Yrs with respect
                          Ray
                          41st

                          On 6-Oct-06, at 11:35 AM, Ed Seufert wrote:
                          >
                          > On the other hand, the following is listed on the Somerset LI Museum
                          > Website.
                          >
                          > "Many uniforms from the 18th century to modern times.
                          > There are several prized items of Regimental interest including the
                          > last Colours carried by the Somerset Light Infantry and a United
                          > States naval flag which was captured by the 13th of Foot in Canada
                          > in 1813."
                          >
                          > If the 13th was posted to Canada in 1813, they may have had a hand
                          > in the capture of the two US vessels in the Richelieu. Does anyone
                          > know the date that the 13th arrived in Canada?
                          >
                          > Cheers,
                          >
                          > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                          > 1812 Royal Marines
                          >
                          > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "LCpl_rm" <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Vic,
                          > >
                          > > The foray into Lake Champlain by Pring and the bombardment of the
                          > Ft Cassin at the mouth of Otter Creek took place in May 1814, two
                          > months after LaColle. Pring does mention the capture of a small
                          > vessel and talking to two prisoners about the American ship building
                          > efforts up Otter Creek at Vergennes. He also mentions sailing to
                          > Plattsburgh and Burlington to check on any building efforts going on
                          > in those ports. He then sails back to Ile-aux-Noix with the
                          > knowledge that the Americans are building a large vessel and the
                          > need for the British to follow suit. His letter is addressed to a
                          > Colonel William Williams, British Army, and in it, he suggests that
                          > any artificers from the regiments be assembled to work on the new
                          > vessel. Without any other letters from Pring, its hard to know what
                          > else he may have captured while on Lake Champlain in May 1814.
                          > >
                          > > The raids that resulted in the destruction/capture of some
                          > American vessels on Lake Champlain took place in August 1813.
                          > >
                          > > Cheers,
                          > >
                          > > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                          > > 1812 Royal Marines
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: suthren@...
                          > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:37 AM
                          > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Ray
                          > >
                          > > No other circumstance of a major US naval loss took place on
                          > Lake Champlain,
                          > > with the possible exception of some schooners taken during a
                          > major British
                          > > foray in 1813 that got as far south as the mouth of Otter Creek,
                          > where they
                          > > bombarded a battery guarding the creek mouth (McDonough's fleet
                          > was up that
                          > > creek). Possibly the Colour was retained at Ile-aux-Noix and
                          > came into the
                          > > possession of the Regiment by indirect means. Otherwise I'm
                          > stumped.
                          > >
                          > > Vic
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                          > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:20 AM
                          > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                          > >
                          > > > Vic et al.
                          > > > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived
                          > in the
                          > > > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours
                          > from that
                          > > > encounter.
                          > > > Ray
                          > > >
                          > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 4:29 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > > I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American
                          > schooners taken
                          > > > > at
                          > > > > Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Vic
                          > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                          > > > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
                          > > > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > > Hi Peter:
                          > > > > > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one
                          > in Lower
                          > > > > > Canada, and the other in New York State.
                          > > > > > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the
                          > UK do not
                          > > > > > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
                          > > > > > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at
                          > Plattsburgh,
                          > > > > although
                          > > > > > I do not recall ever reading of that.
                          > > > > > Yrs etc.
                          > > > > > Ray
                          > > > > > 41st Regt.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at
                          > > > > Taunton. This
                          > > > > > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment
                          > of Foot
                          > > > > which
                          > > > > > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince
                          > Albert's) and
                          > > > > are now
                          > > > > > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada
                          > from
                          > > > > 1813-1815
                          > > > > > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval
                          > colour
                          > > > > captured
                          > > > > > > on
                          > > > > > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff
                          > on duty
                          > > > > > > didn't
                          > > > > > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the
                          > War of
                          > > > > 1812
                          > > > > > > :-)
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Thought you might be interested.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Cheers
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > P**
                          > > > > > > In Pensioner, RHC
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate
                          > of
                          > > > > hundreds of
                          > > > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate
                          > of
                          > > > > THOUSANDS of
                          > > > > square miles...
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                          > > > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                          > > > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                          > > > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                          > > > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                          > > > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                          > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > --
                          > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                          > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                          > > > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release
                          > Date:
                          > > > > 02/10/06
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                          > hundreds of
                          > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                          > THOUSANDS of
                          > > square miles...
                          > > >
                          > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                          > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                          > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                          > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                          > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                          > > >
                          > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                          > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > --
                          > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                          > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                          > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release
                          > Date: 02/10/06
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
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                        • LCpl_rm
                          Ray, Thanks for the information. It looks like the 13th arrived in the Montreal area around the end of June and was pushed up to St Johns. What I m reading is
                          Message 12 of 14 , Oct 6, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Ray,

                            Thanks for the information.

                            It looks like the 13th arrived in the Montreal area around the end of June and was pushed up to St Johns.

                            What I'm reading is that the Army raids into the Lake Champlain area left Isle Aux Noix on July 29th and Plattsburgh, Champlain and Swanton were attacked with all military supplies, barracks, works destroyed or carried off. The force returned on Aug 3. Murray's second in command is Ltc Williams of the 13th Foot. (Swanton is in Vermont near the border.)

                            I say Army raids as Murray says in his letter to Major General Sheaffe, dated the 3rd, that the Naval portion under Captains Everard and Pring "is still cruising on the Lake". This force returned on the 4th after sailing over to Burlington and trying to entice the American naval forces out onto the Lake. Not being successful there, they captured 4 vessels about 20 miles above Burlington and then returned. Everard reported that there was a large force of Americans (5000) encamped at Burlington and that the American ships were moored under a high bank upon which was artillery. There is no mention of landing at Burlington or conducting any raids ashore.

                            Everard in his report spells Pring as Pryng.

                            Cheers,

                            Ed Seufert, Cpl
                            1812 Royal Marines
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Ray Hobbs
                            To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 11:54 AM
                            Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Re: Taunton Castle Military Museum.


                            Ed:
                            The 13th arrived in Canada in 1813 to undergo light Infantry training.
                            They are not listed among the participants of the Battle of Ile aux
                            noix, which is also St. John's or the Richlieu River. This took place
                            on June 3rd, 1813. This is the encounter in which two US ships were
                            captured - Growler and Eagle.
                            The first listed engagement of the 13th - from numerous sources - is
                            the one which followed over a month later, and was a looting expedition
                            which went as far as Burlington Vermont.
                            It was under the command of Murray of the 100th, and the British troops
                            consisted of detachments of the 100th, 13th, 104th, Canadian Fencibles,
                            Select Embodied Militia and Royal Artillery.
                            The raid was severely criticised by both sides for its wanton
                            destruction of private property.
                            However, as far as I know, no ships were involved in this one.
                            Still digging.
                            Yrs with respect
                            Ray
                            41st

                            On 6-Oct-06, at 11:35 AM, Ed Seufert wrote:
                            >
                            > On the other hand, the following is listed on the Somerset LI Museum
                            > Website.
                            >
                            > "Many uniforms from the 18th century to modern times.
                            > There are several prized items of Regimental interest including the
                            > last Colours carried by the Somerset Light Infantry and a United
                            > States naval flag which was captured by the 13th of Foot in Canada
                            > in 1813."
                            >
                            > If the 13th was posted to Canada in 1813, they may have had a hand
                            > in the capture of the two US vessels in the Richelieu. Does anyone
                            > know the date that the 13th arrived in Canada?
                            >
                            > Cheers,
                            >
                            > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                            > 1812 Royal Marines
                            >
                            > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "LCpl_rm" <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Vic,
                            > >
                            > > The foray into Lake Champlain by Pring and the bombardment of the
                            > Ft Cassin at the mouth of Otter Creek took place in May 1814, two
                            > months after LaColle. Pring does mention the capture of a small
                            > vessel and talking to two prisoners about the American ship building
                            > efforts up Otter Creek at Vergennes. He also mentions sailing to
                            > Plattsburgh and Burlington to check on any building efforts going on
                            > in those ports. He then sails back to Ile-aux-Noix with the
                            > knowledge that the Americans are building a large vessel and the
                            > need for the British to follow suit. His letter is addressed to a
                            > Colonel William Williams, British Army, and in it, he suggests that
                            > any artificers from the regiments be assembled to work on the new
                            > vessel. Without any other letters from Pring, its hard to know what
                            > else he may have captured while on Lake Champlain in May 1814.
                            > >
                            > > The raids that resulted in the destruction/capture of some
                            > American vessels on Lake Champlain took place in August 1813.
                            > >
                            > > Cheers,
                            > >
                            > > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                            > > 1812 Royal Marines
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: suthren@...
                            > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:37 AM
                            > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Ray
                            > >
                            > > No other circumstance of a major US naval loss took place on
                            > Lake Champlain,
                            > > with the possible exception of some schooners taken during a
                            > major British
                            > > foray in 1813 that got as far south as the mouth of Otter Creek,
                            > where they
                            > > bombarded a battery guarding the creek mouth (McDonough's fleet
                            > was up that
                            > > creek). Possibly the Colour was retained at Ile-aux-Noix and
                            > came into the
                            > > possession of the Regiment by indirect means. Otherwise I'm
                            > stumped.
                            > >
                            > > Vic
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                            > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:20 AM
                            > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                            > >
                            > > > Vic et al.
                            > > > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived
                            > in the
                            > > > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours
                            > from that
                            > > > encounter.
                            > > > Ray
                            > > >
                            > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 4:29 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > > I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American
                            > schooners taken
                            > > > > at
                            > > > > Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Vic
                            > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                            > > > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
                            > > > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > > Hi Peter:
                            > > > > > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one
                            > in Lower
                            > > > > > Canada, and the other in New York State.
                            > > > > > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the
                            > UK do not
                            > > > > > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
                            > > > > > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at
                            > Plattsburgh,
                            > > > > although
                            > > > > > I do not recall ever reading of that.
                            > > > > > Yrs etc.
                            > > > > > Ray
                            > > > > > 41st Regt.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at
                            > > > > Taunton. This
                            > > > > > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment
                            > of Foot
                            > > > > which
                            > > > > > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince
                            > Albert's) and
                            > > > > are now
                            > > > > > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada
                            > from
                            > > > > 1813-1815
                            > > > > > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval
                            > colour
                            > > > > captured
                            > > > > > > on
                            > > > > > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff
                            > on duty
                            > > > > > > didn't
                            > > > > > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the
                            > War of
                            > > > > 1812
                            > > > > > > :-)
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > Thought you might be interested.
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > Cheers
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > P**
                            > > > > > > In Pensioner, RHC
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate
                            > of
                            > > > > hundreds of
                            > > > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate
                            > of
                            > > > > THOUSANDS of
                            > > > > square miles...
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                            > > > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                            > > > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                            > > > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                            > > > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                            > > > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                            > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > --
                            > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                            > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                            > > > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release
                            > Date:
                            > > > > 02/10/06
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                            > hundreds of
                            > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                            > THOUSANDS of
                            > > square miles...
                            > > >
                            > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                            > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                            > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                            > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                            > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                            > > >
                            > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                            > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > --
                            > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                            > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                            > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release
                            > Date: 02/10/06
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >

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