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Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.

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  • Peter Catley
    Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at Taunton. This is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment of Foot which later became the
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 3, 2006
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      Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at Taunton. This
      is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment of Foot which
      later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince Albert's) and are now
      part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada from 1813-1815
      and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)

      On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval colour captured on
      Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff on duty didn't
      know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the War of 1812 :-)

      Thought you might be interested.

      Cheers

      P**
      In Pensioner, RHC
    • Ray Hobbs
      Hi Peter: The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one in Lower Canada, and the other in New York State. It does not surprise me that regimental
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 3, 2006
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        Hi Peter:
        The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one in Lower
        Canada, and the other in New York State.
        It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the UK do not
        know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
        I suspect that the naval colours were captured at Plattsburgh, although
        I do not recall ever reading of that.
        Yrs etc.
        Ray
        41st Regt.


        On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:

        > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at Taunton. This
        > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment of Foot which
        > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince Albert's) and are now
        > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada from 1813-1815
        > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
        >
        > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval colour captured
        > on
        > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff on duty
        > didn't
        > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the War of 1812
        > :-)
        >
        > Thought you might be interested.
        >
        > Cheers
        >
        > P**
        > In Pensioner, RHC
        >
        >
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • suthren@magma.ca
        I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American schooners taken at Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River. Vic ... From: Ray Hobbs
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 3, 2006
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          I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American schooners taken at
          Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.

          Vic
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
          To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
          Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.


          > Hi Peter:
          > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one in Lower
          > Canada, and the other in New York State.
          > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the UK do not
          > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
          > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at Plattsburgh, although
          > I do not recall ever reading of that.
          > Yrs etc.
          > Ray
          > 41st Regt.
          >
          >
          > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
          >
          > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at Taunton. This
          > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment of Foot which
          > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince Albert's) and are now
          > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada from 1813-1815
          > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
          > >
          > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval colour captured
          > > on
          > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff on duty
          > > didn't
          > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the War of 1812
          > > :-)
          > >
          > > Thought you might be interested.
          > >
          > > Cheers
          > >
          > > P**
          > > In Pensioner, RHC
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
          square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
          square miles...
          >
          > Unit Contact information for North America:
          > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          > American Forces Unit Listing
          > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
          >
          > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
          > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > No virus found in this incoming message.
          > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date: 02/10/06
          >
          >
        • Ray Hobbs
          Vic et al. That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived in the country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours from that encounter.
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 4, 2006
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            Vic et al.
            That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived in the
            country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours from that
            encounter.
            Ray

            On 3-Oct-06, at 4:29 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:

            > I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American schooners taken
            > at
            > Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.
            >
            > Vic
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
            > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
            > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
            >
            > > Hi Peter:
            > > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one in Lower
            > > Canada, and the other in New York State.
            > > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the UK do not
            > > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
            > > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at Plattsburgh,
            > although
            > > I do not recall ever reading of that.
            > > Yrs etc.
            > > Ray
            > > 41st Regt.
            > >
            > >
            > > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
            > >
            > > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at
            > Taunton. This
            > > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment of Foot
            > which
            > > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince Albert's) and
            > are now
            > > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada from
            > 1813-1815
            > > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
            > > >
            > > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval colour
            > captured
            > > > on
            > > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff on duty
            > > > didn't
            > > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the War of
            > 1812
            > > > :-)
            > > >
            > > > Thought you might be interested.
            > > >
            > > > Cheers
            > > >
            > > > P**
            > > > In Pensioner, RHC
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
            > hundreds of
            > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
            > THOUSANDS of
            > square miles...
            > >
            > > Unit Contact information for North America:
            > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            > > American Forces Unit Listing
            > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            > >
            > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
            > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --
            > > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date:
            > 02/10/06
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • suthren@magma.ca
            Ray No other circumstance of a major US naval loss took place on Lake Champlain, with the possible exception of some schooners taken during a major British
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 4, 2006
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              Ray

              No other circumstance of a major US naval loss took place on Lake Champlain,
              with the possible exception of some schooners taken during a major British
              foray in 1813 that got as far south as the mouth of Otter Creek, where they
              bombarded a battery guarding the creek mouth (McDonough's fleet was up that
              creek). Possibly the Colour was retained at Ile-aux-Noix and came into the
              possession of the Regiment by indirect means. Otherwise I'm stumped.

              Vic
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
              To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:20 AM
              Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.


              > Vic et al.
              > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived in the
              > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours from that
              > encounter.
              > Ray
              >
              > On 3-Oct-06, at 4:29 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:
              >
              > > I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American schooners taken
              > > at
              > > Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.
              > >
              > > Vic
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
              > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
              > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
              > >
              > > > Hi Peter:
              > > > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one in Lower
              > > > Canada, and the other in New York State.
              > > > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the UK do not
              > > > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
              > > > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at Plattsburgh,
              > > although
              > > > I do not recall ever reading of that.
              > > > Yrs etc.
              > > > Ray
              > > > 41st Regt.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
              > > >
              > > > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at
              > > Taunton. This
              > > > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment of Foot
              > > which
              > > > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince Albert's) and
              > > are now
              > > > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada from
              > > 1813-1815
              > > > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
              > > > >
              > > > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval colour
              > > captured
              > > > > on
              > > > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff on duty
              > > > > didn't
              > > > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the War of
              > > 1812
              > > > > :-)
              > > > >
              > > > > Thought you might be interested.
              > > > >
              > > > > Cheers
              > > > >
              > > > > P**
              > > > > In Pensioner, RHC
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
              > > hundreds of
              > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
              > > THOUSANDS of
              > > square miles...
              > > >
              > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
              > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              > > > American Forces Unit Listing
              > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              > > >
              > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
              > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --
              > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
              > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date:
              > > 02/10/06
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
              square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
              square miles...
              >
              > Unit Contact information for North America:
              > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              > American Forces Unit Listing
              > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              >
              > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
              > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > No virus found in this incoming message.
              > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date: 02/10/06
              >
              >
            • BritcomHMP@aol.com
              In a message dated 04/10/2006 06:30:33 Central Standard Time, ray.hobbs@sympatico.ca writes: That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived in
              Message 6 of 14 , Oct 4, 2006
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                In a message dated 04/10/2006 06:30:33 Central Standard Time,
                ray.hobbs@... writes:

                That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived in the
                country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours from that




                But is there a possibility that the colours were presented to the 13th at
                some later date? I know of at least one instance where an army officer (George
                DeLacy Evans ) was presented with one of the 'Tripoli' swords captured by the
                RN in Washington for later service with RN forces (the battle of Lake
                Bourne).

                Just a thought,

                Tim


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ray Hobbs
                Of course, it is possible Tim. But with the regimental historian so ignorant of the War of 1812, it is unlikely that we shall find the proof. I have written to
                Message 7 of 14 , Oct 4, 2006
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                  Of course, it is possible Tim. But with the regimental historian so
                  ignorant of the War of 1812, it is unlikely that we shall find the
                  proof.
                  I have written to the Regimental Museum to see if they can unravel the
                  mystery.
                  Ray

                  On 4-Oct-06, at 9:31 AM, BritcomHMP@... wrote:

                  >
                  > In a message dated 04/10/2006 06:30:33 Central Standard Time,
                  > ray.hobbs@... writes:
                  >
                  > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived in the
                  > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours from that
                  >
                  > But is there a possibility that the colours were presented to the
                  > 13th at
                  > some later date? I know of at least one instance where an army
                  > officer (George
                  > DeLacy Evans ) was presented with one of the 'Tripoli' swords
                  > captured by the
                  > RN in Washington for later service with RN forces (the battle of Lake
                  > Bourne).
                  >
                  > Just a thought,
                  >
                  > Tim
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Armchairadm@cs.com
                  Vic Suthern wrote... I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American schooners taken at Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River. That would be my guess as
                  Message 8 of 14 , Oct 4, 2006
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                    Vic Suthern wrote...

                    I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American schooners taken
                    at
                    Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.


                    That would be my guess as well. I know of no other US Naval vessels taken
                    on Lake Champlaine during the course of the war.

                    Ed B.


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • LCpl_rm
                    Vic, The foray into Lake Champlain by Pring and the bombardment of the Ft Cassin at the mouth of Otter Creek took place in May 1814, two months after LaColle.
                    Message 9 of 14 , Oct 4, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Vic,

                      The foray into Lake Champlain by Pring and the bombardment of the Ft Cassin at the mouth of Otter Creek took place in May 1814, two months after LaColle. Pring does mention the capture of a small vessel and talking to two prisoners about the American ship building efforts up Otter Creek at Vergennes. He also mentions sailing to Plattsburgh and Burlington to check on any building efforts going on in those ports. He then sails back to Ile-aux-Noix with the knowledge that the Americans are building a large vessel and the need for the British to follow suit. His letter is addressed to a Colonel William Williams, British Army, and in it, he suggests that any artificers from the regiments be assembled to work on the new vessel. Without any other letters from Pring, its hard to know what else he may have captured while on Lake Champlain in May 1814.

                      The raids that resulted in the destruction/capture of some American vessels on Lake Champlain took place in August 1813.

                      Cheers,

                      Ed Seufert, Cpl
                      1812 Royal Marines
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: suthren@...
                      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:37 AM
                      Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.


                      Ray

                      No other circumstance of a major US naval loss took place on Lake Champlain,
                      with the possible exception of some schooners taken during a major British
                      foray in 1813 that got as far south as the mouth of Otter Creek, where they
                      bombarded a battery guarding the creek mouth (McDonough's fleet was up that
                      creek). Possibly the Colour was retained at Ile-aux-Noix and came into the
                      possession of the Regiment by indirect means. Otherwise I'm stumped.

                      Vic
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                      To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:20 AM
                      Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.

                      > Vic et al.
                      > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived in the
                      > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours from that
                      > encounter.
                      > Ray
                      >
                      > On 3-Oct-06, at 4:29 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American schooners taken
                      > > at
                      > > Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.
                      > >
                      > > Vic
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                      > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
                      > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                      > >
                      > > > Hi Peter:
                      > > > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one in Lower
                      > > > Canada, and the other in New York State.
                      > > > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the UK do not
                      > > > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
                      > > > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at Plattsburgh,
                      > > although
                      > > > I do not recall ever reading of that.
                      > > > Yrs etc.
                      > > > Ray
                      > > > 41st Regt.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at
                      > > Taunton. This
                      > > > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment of Foot
                      > > which
                      > > > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince Albert's) and
                      > > are now
                      > > > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada from
                      > > 1813-1815
                      > > > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
                      > > > >
                      > > > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval colour
                      > > captured
                      > > > > on
                      > > > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff on duty
                      > > > > didn't
                      > > > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the War of
                      > > 1812
                      > > > > :-)
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Thought you might be interested.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Cheers
                      > > > >
                      > > > > P**
                      > > > > In Pensioner, RHC
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                      > > hundreds of
                      > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                      > > THOUSANDS of
                      > > square miles...
                      > > >
                      > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                      > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                      > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                      > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                      > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                      > > >
                      > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                      > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --
                      > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                      > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                      > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date:
                      > > 02/10/06
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                      square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                      square miles...
                      >
                      > Unit Contact information for North America:
                      > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                      > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                      > American Forces Unit Listing
                      > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                      >
                      > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                      > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > No virus found in this incoming message.
                      > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                      > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date: 02/10/06
                      >
                      >





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • suthren@magma.ca
                      Thanks, Ed. As usual, your detailed knowledge is admirable. Glad for the correct story. Vic ... From: LCpl_rm To:
                      Message 10 of 14 , Oct 5, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Thanks, Ed. As usual, your detailed knowledge is admirable. Glad for the
                        correct story.

                        Vic
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "LCpl_rm" <LCpl_RM@...>
                        To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:43 PM
                        Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.


                        > Vic,
                        >
                        > The foray into Lake Champlain by Pring and the bombardment of the Ft
                        Cassin at the mouth of Otter Creek took place in May 1814, two months after
                        LaColle. Pring does mention the capture of a small vessel and talking to
                        two prisoners about the American ship building efforts up Otter Creek at
                        Vergennes. He also mentions sailing to Plattsburgh and Burlington to check
                        on any building efforts going on in those ports. He then sails back to
                        Ile-aux-Noix with the knowledge that the Americans are building a large
                        vessel and the need for the British to follow suit. His letter is addressed
                        to a Colonel William Williams, British Army, and in it, he suggests that any
                        artificers from the regiments be assembled to work on the new vessel.
                        Without any other letters from Pring, its hard to know what else he may have
                        captured while on Lake Champlain in May 1814.
                        >
                        > The raids that resulted in the destruction/capture of some American
                        vessels on Lake Champlain took place in August 1813.
                        >
                        > Cheers,
                        >
                        > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                        > 1812 Royal Marines
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: suthren@...
                        > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:37 AM
                        > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                        >
                        >
                        > Ray
                        >
                        > No other circumstance of a major US naval loss took place on Lake
                        Champlain,
                        > with the possible exception of some schooners taken during a major
                        British
                        > foray in 1813 that got as far south as the mouth of Otter Creek, where
                        they
                        > bombarded a battery guarding the creek mouth (McDonough's fleet was up
                        that
                        > creek). Possibly the Colour was retained at Ile-aux-Noix and came into
                        the
                        > possession of the Regiment by indirect means. Otherwise I'm stumped.
                        >
                        > Vic
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                        > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:20 AM
                        > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                        >
                        > > Vic et al.
                        > > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived in the
                        > > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours from that
                        > > encounter.
                        > > Ray
                        > >
                        > > On 3-Oct-06, at 4:29 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American schooners
                        taken
                        > > > at
                        > > > Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.
                        > > >
                        > > > Vic
                        > > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                        > > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                        > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
                        > > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                        > > >
                        > > > > Hi Peter:
                        > > > > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one in Lower
                        > > > > Canada, and the other in New York State.
                        > > > > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the UK do
                        not
                        > > > > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
                        > > > > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at Plattsburgh,
                        > > > although
                        > > > > I do not recall ever reading of that.
                        > > > > Yrs etc.
                        > > > > Ray
                        > > > > 41st Regt.
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at
                        > > > Taunton. This
                        > > > > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment of Foot
                        > > > which
                        > > > > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince Albert's) and
                        > > > are now
                        > > > > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada from
                        > > > 1813-1815
                        > > > > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval colour
                        > > > captured
                        > > > > > on
                        > > > > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff on duty
                        > > > > > didn't
                        > > > > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the War of
                        > > > 1812
                        > > > > > :-)
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Thought you might be interested.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Cheers
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > P**
                        > > > > > In Pensioner, RHC
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                        > > > hundreds of
                        > > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                        > > > THOUSANDS of
                        > > > square miles...
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                        > > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                        > > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                        > > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                        > > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                        > > > >
                        > > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                        > > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                        > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --
                        > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                        > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                        > > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date:
                        > > > 02/10/06
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
                        of
                        > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                        THOUSANDS of
                        > square miles...
                        > >
                        > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                        > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                        > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                        > > American Forces Unit Listing
                        > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                        > >
                        > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                        > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --
                        > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                        > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                        > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date:
                        02/10/06
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                        square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                        square miles...
                        >
                        > Unit Contact information for North America:
                        > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                        > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                        > American Forces Unit Listing
                        > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                        >
                        > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                        > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --
                        > No virus found in this incoming message.
                        > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                        > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/462 - Release Date: 03/10/06
                        >
                        >
                      • Ed Seufert
                        Further research shows that Lt. Col. William Williams is the commander of the 13th Foot. The article on the Battle of Lacolle Mills by Robert Henderson on
                        Message 11 of 14 , Oct 6, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Further research shows that Lt. Col. William Williams is the
                          commander of the 13th Foot. The article on the Battle of Lacolle
                          Mills by Robert Henderson on Discriminating General (go to
                          http://www.warof1812.ca/lacolle.htm ) has the after action report by
                          LTC Williams noting that he's "Comg. At St Johns" which is probably
                          St-Jean-sur-Richelieu. Ltc Williams notes that Maj Handcock
                          was "exceedingly indebted to Capt Pring" for aiding in the defense
                          of the Mill.

                          Noting the friendship in the letter from Pring to Williams in May
                          1814, there must have been a good working relationship between the
                          two. The US Naval colour in the possession of the Somerset LI
                          Museum may be nothing more than a memento from one officer to
                          another in thanks for their working together.

                          On the other hand, the following is listed on the Somerset LI Museum
                          Website.

                          "Many uniforms from the 18th century to modern times.
                          There are several prized items of Regimental interest including the
                          last Colours carried by the Somerset Light Infantry and a United
                          States naval flag which was captured by the 13th of Foot in Canada
                          in 1813."

                          If the 13th was posted to Canada in 1813, they may have had a hand
                          in the capture of the two US vessels in the Richelieu. Does anyone
                          know the date that the 13th arrived in Canada?

                          Cheers,

                          Ed Seufert, Cpl
                          1812 Royal Marines


                          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "LCpl_rm" <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Vic,
                          >
                          > The foray into Lake Champlain by Pring and the bombardment of the
                          Ft Cassin at the mouth of Otter Creek took place in May 1814, two
                          months after LaColle. Pring does mention the capture of a small
                          vessel and talking to two prisoners about the American ship building
                          efforts up Otter Creek at Vergennes. He also mentions sailing to
                          Plattsburgh and Burlington to check on any building efforts going on
                          in those ports. He then sails back to Ile-aux-Noix with the
                          knowledge that the Americans are building a large vessel and the
                          need for the British to follow suit. His letter is addressed to a
                          Colonel William Williams, British Army, and in it, he suggests that
                          any artificers from the regiments be assembled to work on the new
                          vessel. Without any other letters from Pring, its hard to know what
                          else he may have captured while on Lake Champlain in May 1814.
                          >
                          > The raids that resulted in the destruction/capture of some
                          American vessels on Lake Champlain took place in August 1813.
                          >
                          > Cheers,
                          >
                          > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                          > 1812 Royal Marines
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: suthren@...
                          > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:37 AM
                          > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                          >
                          >
                          > Ray
                          >
                          > No other circumstance of a major US naval loss took place on
                          Lake Champlain,
                          > with the possible exception of some schooners taken during a
                          major British
                          > foray in 1813 that got as far south as the mouth of Otter Creek,
                          where they
                          > bombarded a battery guarding the creek mouth (McDonough's fleet
                          was up that
                          > creek). Possibly the Colour was retained at Ile-aux-Noix and
                          came into the
                          > possession of the Regiment by indirect means. Otherwise I'm
                          stumped.
                          >
                          > Vic
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                          > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:20 AM
                          > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                          >
                          > > Vic et al.
                          > > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived
                          in the
                          > > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours
                          from that
                          > > encounter.
                          > > Ray
                          > >
                          > > On 3-Oct-06, at 4:29 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American
                          schooners taken
                          > > > at
                          > > > Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.
                          > > >
                          > > > Vic
                          > > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                          > > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
                          > > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                          > > >
                          > > > > Hi Peter:
                          > > > > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one
                          in Lower
                          > > > > Canada, and the other in New York State.
                          > > > > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the
                          UK do not
                          > > > > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
                          > > > > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at
                          Plattsburgh,
                          > > > although
                          > > > > I do not recall ever reading of that.
                          > > > > Yrs etc.
                          > > > > Ray
                          > > > > 41st Regt.
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at
                          > > > Taunton. This
                          > > > > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment
                          of Foot
                          > > > which
                          > > > > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince
                          Albert's) and
                          > > > are now
                          > > > > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada
                          from
                          > > > 1813-1815
                          > > > > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval
                          colour
                          > > > captured
                          > > > > > on
                          > > > > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff
                          on duty
                          > > > > > didn't
                          > > > > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the
                          War of
                          > > > 1812
                          > > > > > :-)
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Thought you might be interested.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Cheers
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > P**
                          > > > > > In Pensioner, RHC
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate
                          of
                          > > > hundreds of
                          > > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate
                          of
                          > > > THOUSANDS of
                          > > > square miles...
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                          > > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                          > > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                          > > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                          > > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                          > > > >
                          > > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                          > > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                          > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --
                          > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                          > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                          > > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release
                          Date:
                          > > > 02/10/06
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                          hundreds of
                          > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                          THOUSANDS of
                          > square miles...
                          > >
                          > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                          > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                          > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                          > > American Forces Unit Listing
                          > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                          > >
                          > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                          > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --
                          > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                          > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                          > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release
                          Date: 02/10/06
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Ray Hobbs
                          Ed: The 13th arrived in Canada in 1813 to undergo light Infantry training. They are not listed among the participants of the Battle of Ile aux noix, which is
                          Message 12 of 14 , Oct 6, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Ed:
                            The 13th arrived in Canada in 1813 to undergo light Infantry training.
                            They are not listed among the participants of the Battle of Ile aux
                            noix, which is also St. John's or the Richlieu River. This took place
                            on June 3rd, 1813. This is the encounter in which two US ships were
                            captured - Growler and Eagle.
                            The first listed engagement of the 13th - from numerous sources - is
                            the one which followed over a month later, and was a looting expedition
                            which went as far as Burlington Vermont.
                            It was under the command of Murray of the 100th, and the British troops
                            consisted of detachments of the 100th, 13th, 104th, Canadian Fencibles,
                            Select Embodied Militia and Royal Artillery.
                            The raid was severely criticised by both sides for its wanton
                            destruction of private property.
                            However, as far as I know, no ships were involved in this one.
                            Still digging.
                            Yrs with respect
                            Ray
                            41st

                            On 6-Oct-06, at 11:35 AM, Ed Seufert wrote:
                            >
                            > On the other hand, the following is listed on the Somerset LI Museum
                            > Website.
                            >
                            > "Many uniforms from the 18th century to modern times.
                            > There are several prized items of Regimental interest including the
                            > last Colours carried by the Somerset Light Infantry and a United
                            > States naval flag which was captured by the 13th of Foot in Canada
                            > in 1813."
                            >
                            > If the 13th was posted to Canada in 1813, they may have had a hand
                            > in the capture of the two US vessels in the Richelieu. Does anyone
                            > know the date that the 13th arrived in Canada?
                            >
                            > Cheers,
                            >
                            > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                            > 1812 Royal Marines
                            >
                            > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "LCpl_rm" <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Vic,
                            > >
                            > > The foray into Lake Champlain by Pring and the bombardment of the
                            > Ft Cassin at the mouth of Otter Creek took place in May 1814, two
                            > months after LaColle. Pring does mention the capture of a small
                            > vessel and talking to two prisoners about the American ship building
                            > efforts up Otter Creek at Vergennes. He also mentions sailing to
                            > Plattsburgh and Burlington to check on any building efforts going on
                            > in those ports. He then sails back to Ile-aux-Noix with the
                            > knowledge that the Americans are building a large vessel and the
                            > need for the British to follow suit. His letter is addressed to a
                            > Colonel William Williams, British Army, and in it, he suggests that
                            > any artificers from the regiments be assembled to work on the new
                            > vessel. Without any other letters from Pring, its hard to know what
                            > else he may have captured while on Lake Champlain in May 1814.
                            > >
                            > > The raids that resulted in the destruction/capture of some
                            > American vessels on Lake Champlain took place in August 1813.
                            > >
                            > > Cheers,
                            > >
                            > > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                            > > 1812 Royal Marines
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: suthren@...
                            > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:37 AM
                            > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Ray
                            > >
                            > > No other circumstance of a major US naval loss took place on
                            > Lake Champlain,
                            > > with the possible exception of some schooners taken during a
                            > major British
                            > > foray in 1813 that got as far south as the mouth of Otter Creek,
                            > where they
                            > > bombarded a battery guarding the creek mouth (McDonough's fleet
                            > was up that
                            > > creek). Possibly the Colour was retained at Ile-aux-Noix and
                            > came into the
                            > > possession of the Regiment by indirect means. Otherwise I'm
                            > stumped.
                            > >
                            > > Vic
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                            > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:20 AM
                            > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                            > >
                            > > > Vic et al.
                            > > > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived
                            > in the
                            > > > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours
                            > from that
                            > > > encounter.
                            > > > Ray
                            > > >
                            > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 4:29 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > > I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American
                            > schooners taken
                            > > > > at
                            > > > > Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Vic
                            > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                            > > > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
                            > > > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > > Hi Peter:
                            > > > > > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one
                            > in Lower
                            > > > > > Canada, and the other in New York State.
                            > > > > > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the
                            > UK do not
                            > > > > > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
                            > > > > > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at
                            > Plattsburgh,
                            > > > > although
                            > > > > > I do not recall ever reading of that.
                            > > > > > Yrs etc.
                            > > > > > Ray
                            > > > > > 41st Regt.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at
                            > > > > Taunton. This
                            > > > > > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment
                            > of Foot
                            > > > > which
                            > > > > > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince
                            > Albert's) and
                            > > > > are now
                            > > > > > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada
                            > from
                            > > > > 1813-1815
                            > > > > > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval
                            > colour
                            > > > > captured
                            > > > > > > on
                            > > > > > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff
                            > on duty
                            > > > > > > didn't
                            > > > > > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the
                            > War of
                            > > > > 1812
                            > > > > > > :-)
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > Thought you might be interested.
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > Cheers
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > P**
                            > > > > > > In Pensioner, RHC
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate
                            > of
                            > > > > hundreds of
                            > > > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate
                            > of
                            > > > > THOUSANDS of
                            > > > > square miles...
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                            > > > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                            > > > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                            > > > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                            > > > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                            > > > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                            > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > --
                            > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                            > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                            > > > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release
                            > Date:
                            > > > > 02/10/06
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                            > hundreds of
                            > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                            > THOUSANDS of
                            > > square miles...
                            > > >
                            > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                            > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                            > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                            > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                            > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                            > > >
                            > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                            > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > --
                            > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                            > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                            > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release
                            > Date: 02/10/06
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • LCpl_rm
                            Ray, Thanks for the information. It looks like the 13th arrived in the Montreal area around the end of June and was pushed up to St Johns. What I m reading is
                            Message 13 of 14 , Oct 6, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Ray,

                              Thanks for the information.

                              It looks like the 13th arrived in the Montreal area around the end of June and was pushed up to St Johns.

                              What I'm reading is that the Army raids into the Lake Champlain area left Isle Aux Noix on July 29th and Plattsburgh, Champlain and Swanton were attacked with all military supplies, barracks, works destroyed or carried off. The force returned on Aug 3. Murray's second in command is Ltc Williams of the 13th Foot. (Swanton is in Vermont near the border.)

                              I say Army raids as Murray says in his letter to Major General Sheaffe, dated the 3rd, that the Naval portion under Captains Everard and Pring "is still cruising on the Lake". This force returned on the 4th after sailing over to Burlington and trying to entice the American naval forces out onto the Lake. Not being successful there, they captured 4 vessels about 20 miles above Burlington and then returned. Everard reported that there was a large force of Americans (5000) encamped at Burlington and that the American ships were moored under a high bank upon which was artillery. There is no mention of landing at Burlington or conducting any raids ashore.

                              Everard in his report spells Pring as Pryng.

                              Cheers,

                              Ed Seufert, Cpl
                              1812 Royal Marines
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Ray Hobbs
                              To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 11:54 AM
                              Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Re: Taunton Castle Military Museum.


                              Ed:
                              The 13th arrived in Canada in 1813 to undergo light Infantry training.
                              They are not listed among the participants of the Battle of Ile aux
                              noix, which is also St. John's or the Richlieu River. This took place
                              on June 3rd, 1813. This is the encounter in which two US ships were
                              captured - Growler and Eagle.
                              The first listed engagement of the 13th - from numerous sources - is
                              the one which followed over a month later, and was a looting expedition
                              which went as far as Burlington Vermont.
                              It was under the command of Murray of the 100th, and the British troops
                              consisted of detachments of the 100th, 13th, 104th, Canadian Fencibles,
                              Select Embodied Militia and Royal Artillery.
                              The raid was severely criticised by both sides for its wanton
                              destruction of private property.
                              However, as far as I know, no ships were involved in this one.
                              Still digging.
                              Yrs with respect
                              Ray
                              41st

                              On 6-Oct-06, at 11:35 AM, Ed Seufert wrote:
                              >
                              > On the other hand, the following is listed on the Somerset LI Museum
                              > Website.
                              >
                              > "Many uniforms from the 18th century to modern times.
                              > There are several prized items of Regimental interest including the
                              > last Colours carried by the Somerset Light Infantry and a United
                              > States naval flag which was captured by the 13th of Foot in Canada
                              > in 1813."
                              >
                              > If the 13th was posted to Canada in 1813, they may have had a hand
                              > in the capture of the two US vessels in the Richelieu. Does anyone
                              > know the date that the 13th arrived in Canada?
                              >
                              > Cheers,
                              >
                              > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                              > 1812 Royal Marines
                              >
                              > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "LCpl_rm" <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Vic,
                              > >
                              > > The foray into Lake Champlain by Pring and the bombardment of the
                              > Ft Cassin at the mouth of Otter Creek took place in May 1814, two
                              > months after LaColle. Pring does mention the capture of a small
                              > vessel and talking to two prisoners about the American ship building
                              > efforts up Otter Creek at Vergennes. He also mentions sailing to
                              > Plattsburgh and Burlington to check on any building efforts going on
                              > in those ports. He then sails back to Ile-aux-Noix with the
                              > knowledge that the Americans are building a large vessel and the
                              > need for the British to follow suit. His letter is addressed to a
                              > Colonel William Williams, British Army, and in it, he suggests that
                              > any artificers from the regiments be assembled to work on the new
                              > vessel. Without any other letters from Pring, its hard to know what
                              > else he may have captured while on Lake Champlain in May 1814.
                              > >
                              > > The raids that resulted in the destruction/capture of some
                              > American vessels on Lake Champlain took place in August 1813.
                              > >
                              > > Cheers,
                              > >
                              > > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                              > > 1812 Royal Marines
                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > From: suthren@...
                              > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:37 AM
                              > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Ray
                              > >
                              > > No other circumstance of a major US naval loss took place on
                              > Lake Champlain,
                              > > with the possible exception of some schooners taken during a
                              > major British
                              > > foray in 1813 that got as far south as the mouth of Otter Creek,
                              > where they
                              > > bombarded a battery guarding the creek mouth (McDonough's fleet
                              > was up that
                              > > creek). Possibly the Colour was retained at Ile-aux-Noix and
                              > came into the
                              > > possession of the Regiment by indirect means. Otherwise I'm
                              > stumped.
                              > >
                              > > Vic
                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                              > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                              > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:20 AM
                              > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                              > >
                              > > > Vic et al.
                              > > > That battle took place almost a year before the 13th arrived
                              > in the
                              > > > country. Difficult to imagine how they obtained the colours
                              > from that
                              > > > encounter.
                              > > > Ray
                              > > >
                              > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 4:29 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > > I suspect one of the Colours is from the two American
                              > schooners taken
                              > > > > at
                              > > > > Ile-aux-Noix on the Richelieu River.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Vic
                              > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > > > From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
                              > > > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                              > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:01 PM
                              > > > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Taunton Castle Military Museum.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > > Hi Peter:
                              > > > > > The 13th served at Lacolle Mills and at Plattsburgh - one
                              > in Lower
                              > > > > > Canada, and the other in New York State.
                              > > > > > It does not surprise me that regimental historians in the
                              > UK do not
                              > > > > > know of the War of 1812 - I find this far too common.
                              > > > > > I suspect that the naval colours were captured at
                              > Plattsburgh,
                              > > > > although
                              > > > > > I do not recall ever reading of that.
                              > > > > > Yrs etc.
                              > > > > > Ray
                              > > > > > 41st Regt.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > On 3-Oct-06, at 2:24 PM, Peter Catley wrote:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Today I visited the military museum in the Castle here at
                              > > > > Taunton. This
                              > > > > > > is basically the Regimental museum of the 13th Regiment
                              > of Foot
                              > > > > which
                              > > > > > > later became the Somerset Light Infantry (Prince
                              > Albert's) and
                              > > > > are now
                              > > > > > > part of the Light Infantry. The Regiment was in Canada
                              > from
                              > > > > 1813-1815
                              > > > > > > and served in Upper Canada (the southern part?)
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > On display there is what is described as a U.S. Naval
                              > colour
                              > > > > captured
                              > > > > > > on
                              > > > > > > Lake Champlain. There are no other details and the staff
                              > on duty
                              > > > > > > didn't
                              > > > > > > know any more about it, in fact they hadn't heard of the
                              > War of
                              > > > > 1812
                              > > > > > > :-)
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Thought you might be interested.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Cheers
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > P**
                              > > > > > > In Pensioner, RHC
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate
                              > of
                              > > > > hundreds of
                              > > > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate
                              > of
                              > > > > THOUSANDS of
                              > > > > square miles...
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                              > > > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                              > > > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                              > > > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                              > > > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                              > > > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                              > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > --
                              > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                              > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                              > > > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release
                              > Date:
                              > > > > 02/10/06
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                              > hundreds of
                              > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                              > THOUSANDS of
                              > > square miles...
                              > > >
                              > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                              > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                              > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                              > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                              > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                              > > >
                              > > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                              > > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --
                              > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                              > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                              > > > Version: 7.0.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release
                              > Date: 02/10/06
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >

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