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looking for re-enacting families

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  • Dave Hoyt
    I ve been a silent member of the group for some time but I now speak up in anticipation of some hearty repsonses. My wife is an actor and producer in Toronto
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 19, 2006
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      I've been a silent member of the group for some time but I now speak
      up in anticipation of some hearty repsonses. My wife is an actor and
      producer in Toronto and, together with Rick Green (of "The Red Green
      Show" and "History Bites" fame), is developing a TV program for
      which a pilot will be shot in the near future. The show is directed
      primarily at families and children and involves the discovery and
      exploration of "different" families. In fact, the name of the
      show, "My Wierd Family," pretty much says it all ("wierd" in the
      best possible sense, of course).

      What does this have to do with a War of 1812 Yahoo group? I know
      that many members of this group are re-enactors and that many of you
      have your families fully involved. They are looking for families who
      re-enact together and have asked me to canvass the group in search
      of any who would be willing to take part in such an adventure.
      Specifically, they are looking for re-enacting families with
      children 12 years or younger who actively participate with their
      parent(s). There would be no (or very little) remuneration but the
      fun of being on a TV show coupled with the potential advertising for
      the lifestyle could be incalculable (OK, hyperbole, I know!). One
      other small caveat: only Canadian families will be considered
      (because of logistical issues more than anything else).

      Is anyone in the group interested? Do you have questions? If so,
      please contact me on the group or directly at: spqrdave@...
      and I will forward your responses to my wife and Rick.

      cheers,

      Dave Hoyt
      Burlington, Ontario
    • kevin.windsor@sympatico.ca
      Wow Dave, you had me until you said that! The fact that you would ask that families do it for free shows what little respect most in the industry have for
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 19, 2006
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        Wow Dave, you had me until you said that! The fact that you would ask that families do it for free shows what little respect most in the "industry" have for re-enactors. As well as saying "the fun of being on a TV show", well I can tell you, I have done quite a few TV shows and movies, and it is not what I call "fun". It's a business. The producers are getting paid, the camera person is getting paid, props and set dec, and costumes are getting paid, so why would I be expected to do it for free? Oh right, I get a DVD and get to add to my collection of shows!

        > From: "Dave Hoyt" <spqrdave@...>

        There would be no (or very little) remuneration but the fun of being on a TV show coupled with the potential advertising for the lifestyle could be incalculable (OK, hyperbole, I know!).
      • John Harris
        I couldn t have said it better Kevin !! No offense Mr. Hoyt, but , too many of us have been on set, getting paid ( sometimes good, sometimes bad) , for
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 19, 2006
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          I couldn't have said it better Kevin !! No offense Mr. Hoyt, but ,
          too many of us have been on set, getting paid ( sometimes good,
          sometimes bad) , for productions over the years. At first, your
          struck by the "hey, I'm going to be on TV or in a movie" eye glaze
          over. Then reality kicks in. Everyone is making money except you, who
          have taken time off your real job to "help out", because "it's really
          only a small budget and you'll get a copy of the show and a credit".
          In the end, if you even get a copy of the show , your lucky! I know
          your just asking , but quite frankly, if anyone does this just "for
          fun",they need their head examined.
          Been there! Done that ! Didn't get the T-Shirt, or the DVD !
          John Harris

          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, <kevin.windsor@...> wrote:
          >
          > Wow Dave, you had me until you said that! The fact that you would
          ask that families do it for free shows what little respect most in
          the "industry" have for re-enactors. As well as saying "the fun of
          being on a TV show", well I can tell you, I have done quite a few TV
          shows and movies, and it is not what I call "fun". It's a business.
          The producers are getting paid, the camera person is getting paid,
          props and set dec, and costumes are getting paid, so why would I be
          expected to do it for free? Oh right, I get a DVD and get to add to
          my collection of shows!
          >
          > > From: "Dave Hoyt" <spqrdave@...>
          >
          > There would be no (or very little) remuneration but the fun of
          being on a TV show coupled with the potential advertising for the
          lifestyle could be incalculable (OK, hyperbole, I know!).
          >
        • suthren@magma.ca
          Some very eloquent things have been said here, and it s quite true that filmmakers who value and respect re-enactors---and treat them well, including
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 19, 2006
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            Some very eloquent things have been said here, and it's quite true that
            filmmakers who value and respect re-enactors---and treat them well,
            including payment---are few and far between. Gary Foreman of Native Sun
            Productions is one who does, and his name is worth remembering.

            Filmmakers are not alone in exploiting rather than respecting the
            re-enactor. A number of historic sites that are aware re-enactors see them
            with some kind of awe have in recent years become increasingly callous in
            their treatment of re-enactors, happy to use them to draw visitors to their
            site but less and less inclined to be supportive, encouraging, respectful or
            appreciative. An attitude of 'we'll permit you to use our site' instead of
            gratitude for the re-enactors's efforts is often too evident. While
            experiences vary from person to person (and unit to unit), Fort Ticonderoga
            and certain Parks Canada sites have in recent years been accused of this
            kind of exploitative callousness. Whether the accusation is fair or not, the
            re-enactor, I believe, has the right to ask for fair dealing if someone in
            business is about to profit from the re-enactors' skills, knowledge, or
            material goods. And if that, or even simple respect, is missing, then
            re-enactors should not grace the sites with their presence---unless they do
            so with eyes wide open, are aware that they are being used, and may not
            care.

            Vic Suthren
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "John Harris" <jharris@...>
            To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 5:53 PM
            Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: looking for re-enacting families


            > I couldn't have said it better Kevin !! No offense Mr. Hoyt, but ,
            > too many of us have been on set, getting paid ( sometimes good,
            > sometimes bad) , for productions over the years. At first, your
            > struck by the "hey, I'm going to be on TV or in a movie" eye glaze
            > over. Then reality kicks in. Everyone is making money except you, who
            > have taken time off your real job to "help out", because "it's really
            > only a small budget and you'll get a copy of the show and a credit".
            > In the end, if you even get a copy of the show , your lucky! I know
            > your just asking , but quite frankly, if anyone does this just "for
            > fun",they need their head examined.
            > Been there! Done that ! Didn't get the T-Shirt, or the DVD !
            > John Harris
            >
            > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, <kevin.windsor@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Wow Dave, you had me until you said that! The fact that you would
            > ask that families do it for free shows what little respect most in
            > the "industry" have for re-enactors. As well as saying "the fun of
            > being on a TV show", well I can tell you, I have done quite a few TV
            > shows and movies, and it is not what I call "fun". It's a business.
            > The producers are getting paid, the camera person is getting paid,
            > props and set dec, and costumes are getting paid, so why would I be
            > expected to do it for free? Oh right, I get a DVD and get to add to
            > my collection of shows!
            > >
            > > > From: "Dave Hoyt" <spqrdave@...>
            > >
            > > There would be no (or very little) remuneration but the fun of
            > being on a TV show coupled with the potential advertising for the
            > lifestyle could be incalculable (OK, hyperbole, I know!).
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
            square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
            square miles...
            >
            > Unit Contact information for North America:
            > ---------------------------------
            > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            >
            > American Forces Unit Listing
            > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            > Version: 7.0.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date: 16/06/06
            >
            >
          • Matthew James Didier
            ... Hee hee hee! Try being a paranormal investigator/amateur historian/comme ça re-enactor... My good nature and willingness has probably bought more
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 19, 2006
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              At 09:58 PM 19/06/06 -0400, you wrote:

              >Filmmakers are not alone in exploiting rather than respecting the
              >re-enactor.

              Hee hee hee! Try being a paranormal investigator/amateur historian/comme
              ça re-enactor...

              My good nature and willingness has probably bought more swimming pools,
              paid more rents, helped fund more dinners/parties than most! (...while my
              family and I live hard.)

              Personally... my number read like...

              Number of Hours Doing "Ghostly" Media: Countless
              Payment and Respect Received: Practically none

              Also, what worries me is what light a show on "Weird Families" would shine
              on the hobby?

              In most "personal" cases, the concept of any publicity being good publicity
              doesn't work too well... and can be most damaging to many, not just the one.

              Matthew

              _________________________________________
              Matthew James Didier - Webmaster and Administrator of
              The Upper Canadian Heritage Websites

              matthew@...

              http://www.uppercanadianheritage.org/

              "I want the cultures of all lands to blow about my house, as freely as
              possible,
              but I refuse to be blown off my feet, by anyone of them”
              - Mahatma Ghandi

              Honourary Member - The Incorporated Militia of Upper Canada
              Honourary Member - The Norfolk Militia (Heritage Regiment) - Rifle Coy.

              ====================================
              Please take some time to visit my personal website...
              http://oldgreenbus.doubledeckerbuses.org/
            • Craig Williams
              I ll wade in here, Rick Green will be making money, The crew will make money, your wife as associate Producer will make money......The cast of the Great Race
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 19, 2006
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                I'll wade in here,

                Rick Green will be making money, The crew will make money, your wife
                as associate Producer will make money......The cast of "the Great
                Race " makes money.

                Come back with an offer or go away.


                Craig Williams
                Professional Props master 23 years.
                re-enactor, 30 years.
                I don't come cheap and neither should anyone on this list.
                ...and I don't care if you take offense.
              • Dale Kidd
                The lack of remuneration for the participating families is not surprising... in fact, I immediately started looking for that disclaimer as soon as I noted the
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 19, 2006
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                  The lack of remuneration for the participating families is not
                  surprising... in fact, I immediately started looking for that
                  disclaimer as soon as I noted the involvement of Mr. Green. I have
                  heard several complaints in the past that reenactors recruited for
                  episodes of his popular "History Bites" show were severely
                  undercompensated. This seems to be how he successfully turns out
                  shows on a low budget.

                  ~Dale

                  --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, <kevin.windsor@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Wow Dave, you had me until you said that! The fact that you would
                  ask that families do it for free shows what little respect most in
                  the "industry" have for re-enactors. As well as saying "the fun of
                  being on a TV show", well I can tell you, I have done quite a few TV
                  shows and movies, and it is not what I call "fun". It's a
                  business. The producers are getting paid, the camera person is
                  getting paid, props and set dec, and costumes are getting paid, so
                  why would I be expected to do it for free? Oh right, I get a DVD
                  and get to add to my collection of shows!
                  >
                  > > From: "Dave Hoyt" <spqrdave@...>
                  >
                  > There would be no (or very little) remuneration but the fun of
                  being on a TV show coupled with the potential advertising for the
                  lifestyle could be incalculable (OK, hyperbole, I know!).
                  >
                • Judie Glen
                  ... I do agree that lack of renumeration is a concern for this project, however I beg to disagree with your opinion of Rick Green. Dale, it s unfortunate that
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 20, 2006
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                    --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Dale Kidd" <ucpm_gunner@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > The lack of remuneration for the participating families is not
                    > surprising... in fact, I immediately started looking for that
                    > disclaimer as soon as I noted the involvement of Mr. Green. I have
                    > heard several complaints in the past that reenactors recruited for
                    > episodes of his popular "History Bites" show were severely
                    > undercompensated. This seems to be how he successfully turns out
                    > shows on a low budget.
                    >
                    > ~Dale

                    I do agree that lack of renumeration is a concern for this project,
                    however I beg to disagree with your opinion of Rick Green. Dale, it's
                    unfortunate that you've only spoken to disgruntled folk and have not
                    had the opportunity to be on a History Bites shoot to find out
                    yourself... I have been on a "History Bites" shoot, was well fed,
                    very well paid and treated really well! The main actors sat and ate
                    with us, were really friendly on and off set. Mr. Green, however
                    busy, was very nice, always smiling, very respectful (and available
                    to all of us that HAD to get that photo with him.) I was told by more
                    seasoned (done other shoots, movies)re-enactors that were also
                    employed for this shoot that these folks were un-typically terrific,
                    rather the norm being an 'extra' would be fed last, and certainly not
                    allowed to interact with the "stars" or staff. We even got a round of
                    applause and thanks from the whole gang when it was time for us to go
                    home. It was truly one of the most pleasant jobs I have ever had. To
                    top it off, I can't think of anything better than to have someone
                    follow me for 3 days to take any shine off my nose... guess you gotta
                    be a girl to appreciate that little perk :-)
                    Yrs,
                    Judie
                  • Lalozon
                    From: Judie Glen ... I do agree that lack of renumeration is a concern for this project.. From: J.Bruce Whittaker
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 20, 2006
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                      From: "Judie Glen" <jamjudie@...>

                      "... I do agree that lack of renumeration is a concern for this project.."


                      From: "J.Bruce Whittaker" <ortheris@...>

                      "... I was on the History Bites shoot along with Judie and other reenactors
                      and I was also treated with respect, fed well, well paid ..."

                      (Snip ... you can read the complete postings of the above at:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812





                      May I state

                      The minimum wage in Ontario, Canada is currently $7.45 an hour, supposedly
                      $8.00 in February 2007. In New York State, USA, the minimum wage is $6.75
                      per hour as of January 1, 2006.

                      There are those who will work for minimum wage and others who demand more.

                      I have worked for the film/television industry as a re-enactor on many
                      occasions. To name drop a few instances . Last of the Mohicans, The
                      Crossing, Canada: A People's History, First Invasion: The War of 1812 to
                      name a few.

                      I was told by Alliance of Canadian Cinema, Television and Radio Artists
                      (ACTRA) members, staff, military advisors, actors, etc. that the industry
                      will pay your price if they cannot get the same for less.

                      We as military re-enactors, who have the correct uniforms, know the drill,
                      etc. can demand more than minimum wage, a hot dog and a photo with the star
                      of the show. We have proved it time and time again.

                      The film/television industry is a multi million dollar industry . watch the
                      news and listen to how much they make in the first week of showing the
                      film! . and we worked for peanuts!

                      Background extras make more than re-enactors!

                      I was told, "We can't pay every much, but look at the exposure you will get"

                      My answer, "You can die from exposure!!"



                      I agree with Mr. Williams and others

                      ". I don't come cheap and neither should anyone on this list ..."




                      Yrs.,
                      L2
                    • Ray Hobbs
                      List: This thread is going on a bit, but i suspect it will become more important the closer we get to the bicentennial. Here is my experience: [1] I was
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jun 20, 2006
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                        List:
                        This thread is going on a bit, but i suspect it will become more
                        important the closer we get to the bicentennial. Here is my experience:
                        [1] I was approached recently to have the 41st take part in a
                        documentary, made by a local professional film company. The rates for
                        participation were between $50 and $100 per day. The problem was the
                        extremely short notice - a matter of seven days.
                        [2] I have been approached by another film-maker for the 41st to
                        participate in a documentary - this one for nothing. The timing was
                        also awkward. As a self-employed writer and researcher, I declined.

                        One way of dealing with this and the assumptions that many producers
                        have, is to organize, set fixed rates for performances, and have fair
                        contracts drawn up. This takes time and effort. But it might be a
                        direction we could take.

                        My two cents' worth
                        Ray H
                        41st

                        On 20-Jun-06, at 10:51 AM, Lalozon wrote:

                        > From: "Judie Glen" <jamjudie@...>
                        >
                        > "... I do agree that lack of renumeration is a concern for this
                        > project.."
                        >
                        > From: "J.Bruce Whittaker" <ortheris@...>
                        >
                        > "... I was on the History Bites shoot along with Judie and other
                        > reenactors
                        > and I was also treated with respect, fed well, well paid ..."
                        >
                        > (Snip ... you can read the complete postings of the above at:
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812
                        >
                        > May I state
                        >
                        > The minimum wage in Ontario, Canada is currently $7.45 an hour,
                        > supposedly
                        > $8.00 in February 2007. In New York State, USA, the minimum wage is
                        > $6.75
                        > per hour as of January 1, 2006.
                        >
                        > There are those who will work for minimum wage and others who demand
                        > more.
                        >
                        > I have worked for the film/television industry as a re-enactor on many
                        > occasions. To name drop a few instances . Last of the Mohicans, The
                        > Crossing, Canada: A People's History, First Invasion: The War of 1812
                        > to
                        > name a few.
                        >
                        > I was told by Alliance of Canadian Cinema, Television and Radio
                        > Artists
                        > (ACTRA) members, staff, military advisors, actors, etc. that the
                        > industry
                        > will pay your price if they cannot get the same for less.
                        >
                        > We as military re-enactors, who have the correct uniforms, know the
                        > drill,
                        > etc. can demand more than minimum wage, a hot dog and a photo with
                        > the star
                        > of the show. We have proved it time and time again.
                        >
                        > The film/television industry is a multi million dollar industry .
                        > watch the
                        > news and listen to how much they make in the first week of showing the
                        > film! . and we worked for peanuts!
                        >
                        > Background extras make more than re-enactors!
                        >
                        > I was told, "We can't pay every much, but look at the exposure you
                        > will get"
                        >
                        > My answer, "You can die from exposure!!"
                        >
                        > I agree with Mr. Williams and others
                        >
                        > ". I don't come cheap and neither should anyone on this list ..."
                        >
                        > Yrs.,
                        > L2
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Dave McMeekin
                        Hi Ray Glad you declined. This hobby isn t cheap anymore ( ie gas , powder,kit ) The days of cheap trained help are over . $ 18 million at the boxoffice for
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jun 20, 2006
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                          Hi Ray
                          Glad you declined.
                          This hobby isn't cheap anymore ( ie gas , powder,kit )
                          The days of cheap trained help are over .
                          $ 18 million at the boxoffice for the first day should be proof enough for all involved or concidering it.
                          6 am to 6pm is 12 hours for $ 100 .oo = $ 8.30 per hr
                          Plus you supply the powder and the gas to get there .
                          NOT !!!!
                          DAVE
                          Ray Hobbs <ray.hobbs@...> wrote: List:
                          This thread is going on a bit, but i suspect it will become more
                          important the closer we get to the bicentennial. Here is my experience:
                          [1] I was approached recently to have the 41st take part in a
                          documentary, made by a local professional film company. The rates for
                          participation were between $50 and $100 per day. The problem was the
                          extremely short notice - a matter of seven days.
                          [2] I have been approached by another film-maker for the 41st to
                          participate in a documentary - this one for nothing. The timing was
                          also awkward. As a self-employed writer and researcher, I declined.

                          One way of dealing with this and the assumptions that many producers
                          have, is to organize, set fixed rates for performances, and have fair
                          contracts drawn up. This takes time and effort. But it might be a
                          direction we could take.

                          My two cents' worth
                          Ray H
                          41st

                          On 20-Jun-06, at 10:51 AM, Lalozon wrote:

                          > From: "Judie Glen" <jamjudie@...>
                          >
                          > "... I do agree that lack of renumeration is a concern for this
                          > project.."
                          >
                          > From: "J.Bruce Whittaker" <ortheris@...>
                          >
                          > "... I was on the History Bites shoot along with Judie and other
                          > reenactors
                          > and I was also treated with respect, fed well, well paid ..."
                          >
                          > (Snip ... you can read the complete postings of the above at:
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812
                          >
                          > May I state
                          >
                          > The minimum wage in Ontario, Canada is currently $7.45 an hour,
                          > supposedly
                          > $8.00 in February 2007. In New York State, USA, the minimum wage is
                          > $6.75
                          > per hour as of January 1, 2006.
                          >
                          > There are those who will work for minimum wage and others who demand
                          > more.
                          >
                          > I have worked for the film/television industry as a re-enactor on many
                          > occasions. To name drop a few instances . Last of the Mohicans, The
                          > Crossing, Canada: A People's History, First Invasion: The War of 1812
                          > to
                          > name a few.
                          >
                          > I was told by Alliance of Canadian Cinema, Television and Radio
                          > Artists
                          > (ACTRA) members, staff, military advisors, actors, etc. that the
                          > industry
                          > will pay your price if they cannot get the same for less.
                          >
                          > We as military re-enactors, who have the correct uniforms, know the
                          > drill,
                          > etc. can demand more than minimum wage, a hot dog and a photo with
                          > the star
                          > of the show. We have proved it time and time again.
                          >
                          > The film/television industry is a multi million dollar industry .
                          > watch the
                          > news and listen to how much they make in the first week of showing the
                          > film! . and we worked for peanuts!
                          >
                          > Background extras make more than re-enactors!
                          >
                          > I was told, "We can't pay every much, but look at the exposure you
                          > will get"
                          >
                          > My answer, "You can die from exposure!!"
                          >
                          > I agree with Mr. Williams and others
                          >
                          > ". I don't come cheap and neither should anyone on this list ..."
                          >
                          > Yrs.,
                          > L2
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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