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RE: Longwoods - Divine Service

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  • John Harris
    From: ray hobbs This now descends into the realm of the bizarre. RH JH- I couldn t agree with you more Ray. Enough of this . From:
    Message 1 of 18 , Apr 28, 2006
      From: ray hobbs <ray.hobbs@...>

      This now descends into the realm of the bizarre.
      RH

      JH->>I couldn't agree with you more Ray. Enough of this .




      From: Craig Williams <sgtwarner@...>
      Subject: Re: QUESTION: Longwoods - Divine Service

      In order to attack us the US forces would have to
      come to church.....and since they are "Godless American Republicans "
      it's very unlikely to happen. ( To my American friends, please do not
      take me seriously. I jest broadly)

      In sincere patronization,

      Craig

      JH >>> No offence taken Craig, we've known each other for too many decades !
      Now, for the record . The divine Service that occurs at events are for
      British personel . There will be NO uniformed US personel present! It was
      made clear to some of our people the other year, that uniformed US soldiers
      would not be correct at the service, so, we stay away. No offence was taken
      and none is intended. This is a simple fact.
      So, those of you with grandiose SCA type fantasies of a wild, filled with
      blood lust, foaming at the mouth, surprise US "attack" during the service
      ,....well, what can I say other than, I hope you have a great time at what
      seems to me to be either your first re-enactment, or, the first time that
      you will see regular US soldiers at an event.
      Just an observation
      Regards
      John Harris
      22nd US Infantry and occasionally USN.
    • suthren@magma.ca
      Dear Dale Thank you for your thoughtful message. Seamen of the RN, including on the North American Station, were given instruction in small arms by either the
      Message 2 of 18 , Apr 29, 2006
        Dear Dale

        Thank you for your thoughtful message.

        Seamen of the RN, including on the North American Station, were given
        instruction in small arms by either the ship's Corporal, who served as
        Master-at-Arms, or by members of the Royal Marine detachment (or infantry
        serving as marines, such as the 41st Foot and the R. Nfld. Regt.) that may
        have been carried in the ship. Provincial Marine seamen, the naval force on
        the Lakes until May of 1813, had notoriously far less training in weapons of
        any kind, including small arms and the exercising of the "great guns".

        For Boarding Parties at sea, the usual weapons issued out were the cutlass;
        the pike; the pistol; and the boarding axe. These were issued before the
        action and recovered after.

        For Landing Parties put ashore into a potentially hostile circumstance where
        they were expected to either defend themselves or function as an attacking
        force, the seamen were generally issued with muskets and cartridge boxes,
        and bayonets if carrying muskets (such as the India Pattern or Short Land)
        that could receive them. Leatherwork for these was usually black rather than
        pipeclayed white as per the RM or the Infantry. "Breadbags" (haversacks)
        were also issued out if the stay ashore was to be lengthy.

        The cutlass was usually not carried by seamen in Landing Parties, as it was
        a close-range shipboard weapon little better than a cumbersome club with a
        sharp edge, and no defence against a musket-armed enemy. A few might have
        been seen in the hands of petty officers, but not as a sign of rank.

        Officers would rely on pistols (Sea Service or Dragoon models with belt
        tangs) and swords.

        Therefore, I would suggest that if the wish is to portray accurately a naval
        Landing Party in a potentially fighting circumstance, the stand of arms
        described above would be appropriate for each man. Otherwise I would
        continue to suggest no weaponry.

        But it is a hobby, after all. Do whatever is fun.

        Yours aye

        Vic Suthren
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Dale Kidd" <ucpm_gunner@...>
        To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 10:58 PM
        Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: Arming Tars (was Divine Service)


        > R/Adm. Suthren:
        >
        > Perhaps I could prevail upon you to further clarify this issue, as I
        > am confused by the seemingly illogical logistical and tactical issues
        > this policy would engender.
        >
        > The SOP you have quoted seems entirely appropriate where the
        > personnel were quartered aboard ship, and their arms were therefore
        > stored there as well. It would also seem to be good procedure when
        > the Tars were headed into a city or town, as sailors were notorious
        > drunks and brawlers, and would be best kept unarmed in that situation.
        >
        > However, in a situation where the sailors were part of a landing
        > party, encamped or moving overland, would not the members of the
        > landing party be issued their cutlasses for the duration? If not,
        > what is the prescribed repository for them? It seems unlikely that
        > they would be transported in crates or barrels when the load could be
        > more evenly distributed. And it would seem even less likely that the
        > men would be left unarmed when encamped in or moving on foot through
        > territory where contact with the enemy was even remotely likely.
        >
        > Your views, sir?
        >
        > YH&OS,
        > ~Dale
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
        square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
        square miles...
        >
        > Unit Contact information for North America:
        > ---------------------------------
        > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
        > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
        >
        > American Forces Unit Listing
        > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
        > Version: 7.0.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/326 - Release Date: 27/04/06
        >
        >
      • Armchairadm@cs.com
        Vic. I agree with your analysis of what would have been carried by a Naval Landing Party operating on shore for length of time. Aside from the generally
        Message 3 of 18 , Apr 29, 2006
          Vic.
          I agree with your analysis of what would have been carried by a Naval
          Landing Party operating on shore for length of time. Aside from the generally
          useless nature of a cutlass in an infantry fight, anyone who has tried to
          march any distance with a cutlass swinging about from their belt knows what a
          pain in the ass it is. However I think it quite possible that cutlasses may have
          been issued to Naval Gun Crews when operating on shore. In that circumstance
          they would have been of some value if your Gun Position was about to be
          overrun.

          Ed B.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • suthren@magma.ca
          Very good point, Ed. Vic Suthren ... From: To: Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [WarOf1812]
          Message 4 of 18 , Apr 29, 2006
            Very good point, Ed.

            Vic Suthren
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <Armchairadm@...>
            To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 8:29 AM
            Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Re: Arming Tars (was Divine Service)


            > Vic.
            > I agree with your analysis of what would have been carried by a
            Naval
            > Landing Party operating on shore for length of time. Aside from the
            generally
            > useless nature of a cutlass in an infantry fight, anyone who has tried to
            > march any distance with a cutlass swinging about from their belt knows
            what a
            > pain in the ass it is. However I think it quite possible that cutlasses
            may have
            > been issued to Naval Gun Crews when operating on shore. In that
            circumstance
            > they would have been of some value if your Gun Position was about to be
            > overrun.
            >
            > Ed B.
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
            square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
            square miles...
            >
            > Unit Contact information for North America:
            > ---------------------------------
            > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            >
            > American Forces Unit Listing
            > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            > Version: 7.0.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/326 - Release Date: 27/04/06
            >
            >
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