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Re: [WarOf1812] Ice Houses?

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  • ray hobbs
    Murray: I have just returned from a trip to the UK and spent a day at Battle, Sussex, the site of a large transfer barracks during our period. The old Abbey
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 4, 2006
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      Murray:
      I have just returned from a trip to the UK and spent a day at Battle,
      Sussex, the site of a large transfer barracks during our period. The
      old Abbey was used as the barracks.
      At the back of the Abbey there are two structures, one in ruins,
      labelled "Ice House and Dairy - Built ca. 1812." I will e-mail you a
      picture of them to your private e-ddress. the list does not accept
      attachments.
      These must have been built to accommodate the soldiers passing through
      the Abbey at the time. The old Abbey became disused as a private home
      in the 18th century, and was reopened to accommodate troops during the
      Napoleonic Wars.
      Yrs etc.
      Ray Hobbs
      41st Regt.
      Hamilton, Ont.


      On Tuesday, April 4, 2006, at 11:43 AM, mccombs98 wrote:

      > Would anyone know of primary reference for "ice houses" during our
      > period of reenactment?
      > On the farm I grew up on, we had a small low single room log cabin with
      > a loft, with thickish door and a thick wooden floor. We had surmised
      > that this was an ice house. The main house  was a two story log cabin
      > (black walnut) built in 1788 (as it turned out, by a maternal
      > grgrandfather of mine...John Dennis). When the "ice house" was built
      > isn't known.
      > Though I've never seen a picture or reference, original materials
      > available at that time could make a portable "ice chest" (I made one).
      > This seems to me only plausible if "ice houses" were in existence as
      > well.
      > Your Most Humble Serv't
      > Murray
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
      > of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
      > THOUSANDS of square miles...
      >
      > Unit Contact information for North America:
      >    ---------------------------------
      > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
      > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
      >
      > American Forces Unit Listing
      > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
      >
      >
      <image.tiff>
      >
      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
      >
      > +  Visit your group "WarOf1812" on the web.
      >  
      > +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      >  WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >  
      > +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      >
      >
      <image.tiff>
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • mccombs98
      Thanks Ray, I d love to see the icehouse picture and its design. I ve posted a picture of my portable ice box in the photo section under Campaign boxes. It has
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 4, 2006
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        Thanks Ray,
        I'd love to see the icehouse picture and its design.
        I've posted a picture of my portable ice box in the photo section under
        Campaign boxes. It has a tin liner and is insulated (though by modern
        out of sight material). The handles were originally to be rope and
        becket, but for now are cast iron.
        Just by chance it will hold a 12 pack of beer:) I will agument cooling
        with a collapsable ice bag inside.
        Regards
        Murray

        ray hobbs <ray.hobbs@...> wrote:
        >
        > Murray:
        > I have just returned from a trip to the UK and spent a day at Battle,
        > Sussex, the site of a large transfer barracks during our period. The
        > old Abbey was used as the barracks.
        > At the back of the Abbey there are two structures, one in ruins,
        > labelled "Ice House and Dairy - Built ca. 1812." I will e-mail you a
        > picture of them to your private e-ddress. the list does not accept
        > attachments.
        > These must have been built to accommodate the soldiers passing through
        > the Abbey at the time. The old Abbey became disused as a private home
        > in the 18th century, and was reopened to accommodate troops during the
        > Napoleonic Wars.
        > Yrs etc.
        > Ray Hobbs
        > 41st Regt.
        > Hamilton, Ont.
        >
        >
        > On Tuesday, April 4, 2006, at 11:43 AM, mccombs98 wrote:
        >
        > > Would anyone know of primary reference for "ice houses" during our
        > > period of reenactment?
        > > On the farm I grew up on, we had a small low single room log cabin with
        > > a loft, with thickish door and a thick wooden floor. We had surmised
        > > that this was an ice house. The main house  was a two story log cabin
        > > (black walnut) built in 1788 (as it turned out, by a maternal
        > > grgrandfather of mine...John Dennis). When the "ice house" was built
        > > isn't known.
        > > Though I've never seen a picture or reference, original materials
        > > available at that time could make a portable "ice chest" (I made one).
        > > This seems to me only plausible if "ice houses" were in existence as
        > > well.
        > > Your Most Humble Serv't
        > > Murray
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
        > > of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
        > > THOUSANDS of square miles...
        > >
        > > Unit Contact information for North America:
        > >    ---------------------------------
        > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
        > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
        > >
        > > American Forces Unit Listing
        > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
        > >
        > >
        > <image.tiff>
        > >
        > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        > >
        > > +  Visit your group "WarOf1812" on the web.
        > >  
        > > +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > >  WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >  
        > > +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        > >
        > >
        > <image.tiff>
        > >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • BritcomHMP@aol.com
        In a message dated 04/04/2006 10:44:30 Central Standard Time, macomb@pop.ca.inter.net writes: Would anyone know of primary reference for ice houses during
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 4, 2006
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          In a message dated 04/04/2006 10:44:30 Central Standard Time,
          macomb@... writes:

          Would anyone know of primary reference for "ice houses" during our
          period of reenactment?




          Dating from very slightly later but I mention it because I personaly
          inspected it, there is a fine ice house at Stratfield Saye the home of the Duke of
          Wellington. It is brick lined and built underground near the lake. During the
          winter ice was cut from the lake and stored for use during the summer.

          Cheers

          Tim


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Susan Spencer
          Earlier than our period, but on this side of the pond, there is an ice house at the Fortress of Louisbourg (a reconstruction of course). It is a round stone
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 4, 2006
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            Earlier than our period, but on this side of the pond, there is an ice
            house at the Fortress of Louisbourg (a reconstruction of course). It is
            a round stone building some 20 ft in diameter, sunk deep into the ground
            with only a foot or two of wall showing above ground level. It has a
            steep conical roof made of wood, which, if memory serves correctly, is
            insulated with straw.

            -- Sioux
          • Lalozon
            From: Angela Gottfred Ice houses (also called glaciers ) were often part of fur posts across Western Canada during this time
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 5, 2006
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              From: "Angela Gottfred" <agottfre@...>

              Ice houses (also called "glaciers") were often part of fur posts across
              Western Canada during this time period.
              "As there was now plenty of shore ice of sufficient thickness, we made a
              Glacier for frozen meat.




              Angela

              Help me out here ?!?!

              Ice House: a building used to store ice (Eastern North America and UK)

              Glacier: a building made of ice (North Western North America)



              I believe the original question was about "Ice House" a building used to
              store ice


              Yrs.,
              L2 ~ AdC
              Crown Forces
              Canada
              ==========
            • Angela Gottfred
              Ice houses (also called glaciers ) were often part of fur posts across Western Canada during this time period. As there was now plenty of shore ice of
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 5, 2006
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                Ice houses (also called "glaciers") were often part of fur posts across Western
                Canada during this time period.

                "As there was now plenty of shore ice of sufficient thickness, we made a Glacier
                for frozen meat. This is a square of about twelve feet, the bottom and sides
                lined with ice; in this we placed one hundred and sixty Thighs and shoulders of
                Red Deer [elk], and forty-seven thighs of Antelopes; this is necessary, for as
                soon as the fine weather comes on, the Deer of all species leave the low lands,
                and retire for fresh grass and shelter...In these meat glaciers, a layer of Meat
                is laid on the ice, and then a layer of ice, and thus continued; when the warm
                water comes on, it is covered with fine branches of the pine, the ice is found
                so much thawed that the pieces are joined together, the meat is also thawed, but
                remains very sound, though [it] has lost it's juice and is dry eating. [Freezer
                burn!] I have even seen the meat covered with a kind of moss but not in the
                least tainted."
                (David Thompson, _Narrative_, 290)

                When there was "fine thawing weather" at Edmonton House, the men put "snow &
                water in the cellar to keep the meat froze". Feb 6, 1797 (Sutherland, 84)

                "Filled my Ice house, 50 Sleigh loads of Ice and 400 Kegs of Water." 12 Mar
                1804, Pembina R. post (on Manitoba/N. Dakota border) Alexander Henry the Younger
                (Gough, 1:155)

                "Got Snow, Ice, and 23 large kettles full of water thrown into the Ice House --
                " 10 Mar 1808, Fort of the Forks (near Peace River, Alberta) (L. Keith, 331)

                Your humble & obedient servant,
                Angela Gottfred
              • mccombs98
                Hi Angela, Thank you for your expanded insight. When I started building my alternate cooler, my intention was only to make a box that looked more period
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 5, 2006
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                  Hi Angela,
                  Thank you for your expanded insight.
                  When I started building my alternate cooler, my intention was only to
                  make a box that looked more period correct and still keep my beer cold.
                  I quickly realized that the materials I used were avaialable to our
                  ancestors of the time. Why couldn't they build such a portable cooler?
                  Of course this devolved into the question of "why not?"!

                  I've enjoyed this expanded discussion as it illuminated a topic that
                  I've not come across in historical books, or record thus far.
                  It would seem by the posts received, that ice houses were of a necesary
                  primary concern during our era (and before), and even planned on a
                  grand scale (thanks Ray), not to mention "ice cream" as being a most
                  coveted luxury of their time (Thanks Tim).
                  To all others who contributed, I thank you too!
                  Your Most Humble Serv't
                  Murray

                  "Angela Gottfred" <agottfre@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Dear L2,
                  >
                  > I believe the original question was about ice houses in relation to the
                  > availability of ice; and I described ice houses in the fur trade as an example
                  > of just how widespread they were at that time.
                  >
                  > I've double-checked the _Dictionary of Canadianisms on Historical Principles_,
                  > and I did get my terminology slightly mixed; the term "hangard" was often used
                  > for an ice house; a "glacier" was a pit filled with ice and used to preserve
                  > food. Both structures were used in the fur trade.
                  >
                  > I've seen many glaciers in the Rockies, but "glacier" meaning "a building built
                  > from ice" is completely new to me.
                  >
                  > Your humble & obedient servant,
                  > Angela Gottfred
                  >
                  >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  > Of
                  > > Lalozon
                  > > Sent: April 5, 2006 9:00 AM
                  > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: [WarOf1812] Ice Houses?
                  > >
                  > > From: "Angela Gottfred" <agottfre@...>
                  > >
                  > > Ice houses (also called "glaciers") were often part of fur posts across
                  > > Western Canada during this time period.
                  > > "As there was now plenty of shore ice of sufficient thickness, we made a
                  > > Glacier for frozen meat.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Angela
                  > >
                  > > Help me out here ?!?!
                  > >
                  > > Ice House: a building used to store ice (Eastern North America and UK)
                  > >
                  > > Glacier: a building made of ice (North Western North America)
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > I believe the original question was about "Ice House" a building used to
                  > > store ice
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yrs.,
                  > > L2 ~ AdC
                  > > Crown Forces
                  > > Canada
                  > > ==========
                  >
                • Angela Gottfred
                  Dear L2, I believe the original question was about ice houses in relation to the availability of ice; and I described ice houses in the fur trade as an example
                  Message 8 of 9 , Apr 6, 2006
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                    Dear L2,

                    I believe the original question was about ice houses in relation to the
                    availability of ice; and I described ice houses in the fur trade as an example
                    of just how widespread they were at that time.

                    I've double-checked the _Dictionary of Canadianisms on Historical Principles_,
                    and I did get my terminology slightly mixed; the term "hangard" was often used
                    for an ice house; a "glacier" was a pit filled with ice and used to preserve
                    food. Both structures were used in the fur trade.

                    I've seen many glaciers in the Rockies, but "glacier" meaning "a building built
                    from ice" is completely new to me.

                    Your humble & obedient servant,
                    Angela Gottfred


                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    Of
                    > Lalozon
                    > Sent: April 5, 2006 9:00 AM
                    > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [WarOf1812] Ice Houses?
                    >
                    > From: "Angela Gottfred" <agottfre@...>
                    >
                    > Ice houses (also called "glaciers") were often part of fur posts across
                    > Western Canada during this time period.
                    > "As there was now plenty of shore ice of sufficient thickness, we made a
                    > Glacier for frozen meat.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Angela
                    >
                    > Help me out here ?!?!
                    >
                    > Ice House: a building used to store ice (Eastern North America and UK)
                    >
                    > Glacier: a building made of ice (North Western North America)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I believe the original question was about "Ice House" a building used to
                    > store ice
                    >
                    >
                    > Yrs.,
                    > L2 ~ AdC
                    > Crown Forces
                    > Canada
                    > ==========
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