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Re: [WarOf1812] Re: Historical Authenticity? Sailors and Canteens?

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  • LCpl_rm
    Jim/Patrick Been going over my narratives on the Chesapeake campaigns and though I ve found a couple of statements about the sailors of the Naval Battalions
    Message 1 of 17 , Apr 2 1:11 PM
      Jim/Patrick

      Been going over my narratives on the Chesapeake campaigns and though I've found a couple of statements about the sailors of the Naval Battalions eating biscuit from their haversacks, there's nothing about water. And surely with the heat and humidity down here in the summer, there would have been a need to carry or obtain water.

      The only mention of canteens comes from Major Wybourn in his diary in April 1813, he relates that he was ordered to gather 80 men and a subaltern for an expedition. Accordingly he "proceeded, armed and provided with everything necessary: canteens; camp kettles & a blanket each man." Major Wybourn was then Captain of the company of Royal Marines aboard the HMS Marlborough and its unclear whether the statement pertains to just his detachment or the entire expedition which consisted of over 150 Marines and 200 Sailors.

      For ourselves, naturally we carry canteens but for camp, we carry canvas buckets and keep several filled; one at least near the campfire. The advantage of canvas buckets is that they can be easily folded and stored in a small space unlike woodenware. We generally have one of our tinware pots filled with water also. We also keep several stoneware jugs, one for grog (which Sir Larry can attest) and another usually for cinnamon water. We will probably add a third for wine since the alternative for beer and grog in a sailors diet is wine.

      There's a company that is making beer and ale and bottling it in repopped 18th century bottles of which we have gotten a few.

      As far as carrying extra water into the field, a couple of ship's boys carry canvas buckets would be more appropriate then camp followers.

      My two shillings worth,

      Cheers,

      Ed Seufert, Cpl
      1812 Royal Marines
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Jim Pierce
      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 7:31 PM
      Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Re: Historical Authenticity? Sailors and Canteens?


      Patrick,

      Beer...well that is how the RN would have done it :7] Sincerely though, we do make great compromises in our portrayals to "Army PC" and "site management"...who, not incidently have the lips of the army impressions glued to their ears. Don't get me wrong, safety is paramount, but if we want to play "army" in different outfits, we need to rearrange our priorities. The Navy wasn't the army.

      Personally for events I use a recreated period Gin Bottle to carry water on the field. I've hitched a hemp covering for the bottle to give it some strength. It is beautiful, looks "maritime", and satisfies the site requirements to be "watered" on the field.

      Fair Winds,

      Jim Pierce


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

      Unit Contact information for North America:
      ---------------------------------
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      http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

      American Forces Unit Listing
      http://usforces1812.tripod.com



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    • Patrick Schifferdecker
      Ed, Please give the citation for sailors and haversacks. Cheers, Patrick ... though I ve found a couple of statements about the sailors of the Naval Battalions
      Message 2 of 17 , Apr 2 6:59 PM
        Ed,
        Please give the citation for sailors and haversacks.

        Cheers,
        Patrick

        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "LCpl_rm" <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:
        >
        > Jim/Patrick
        >
        > Been going over my narratives on the Chesapeake campaigns and
        though I've found a couple of statements about the sailors of the
        Naval Battalions eating biscuit from their haversacks, there's
        nothing about water. And surely with the heat and humidity down
        here in the summer, there would have been a need to carry or obtain
        water.
        >
        > The only mention of canteens comes from Major Wybourn in his diary
        in April 1813, he relates that he was ordered to gather 80 men and a
        subaltern for an expedition. Accordingly he "proceeded, armed and
        provided with everything necessary: canteens; camp kettles & a
        blanket each man." Major Wybourn was then Captain of the company of
        Royal Marines aboard the HMS Marlborough and its unclear whether the
        statement pertains to just his detachment or the entire expedition
        which consisted of over 150 Marines and 200 Sailors.
        >
        > For ourselves, naturally we carry canteens but for camp, we carry
        canvas buckets and keep several filled; one at least near the
        campfire. The advantage of canvas buckets is that they can be
        easily folded and stored in a small space unlike woodenware. We
        generally have one of our tinware pots filled with water also. We
        also keep several stoneware jugs, one for grog (which Sir Larry can
        attest) and another usually for cinnamon water. We will probably
        add a third for wine since the alternative for beer and grog in a
        sailors diet is wine.
        >
        > There's a company that is making beer and ale and bottling it in
        repopped 18th century bottles of which we have gotten a few.
        >
        > As far as carrying extra water into the field, a couple of ship's
        boys carry canvas buckets would be more appropriate then camp
        followers.
        >
        > My two shillings worth,
        >
        > Cheers,
        >
        > Ed Seufert, Cpl
        > 1812 Royal Marines
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Jim Pierce
        > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 7:31 PM
        > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Re: Historical Authenticity? Sailors
        and Canteens?
        >
        >
        > Patrick,
        >
        > Beer...well that is how the RN would have done it :7] Sincerely
        though, we do make great compromises in our portrayals to "Army PC"
        and "site management"...who, not incidently have the lips of the
        army impressions glued to their ears. Don't get me wrong, safety is
        paramount, but if we want to play "army" in different outfits, we
        need to rearrange our priorities. The Navy wasn't the army.
        >
        > Personally for events I use a recreated period Gin Bottle to
        carry water on the field. I've hitched a hemp covering for the
        bottle to give it some strength. It is beautiful, looks "maritime",
        and satisfies the site requirements to be "watered" on the field.
        >
        > Fair Winds,
        >
        > Jim Pierce
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
        hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the
        fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
        >
        > Unit Contact information for North America:
        > ---------------------------------
        > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
        > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
        >
        > American Forces Unit Listing
        > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
        >
        >
        >
        > SPONSORED LINKS United kingdom Living history War of 1812
        >
        >
        > -------------------------------------------------------------------
        -----------
        > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        >
        > a.. Visit your group "WarOf1812" on the web.
        >
        > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
        of Service.
        >
        >
        > -------------------------------------------------------------------
        -----------
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Patrick Schifferdecker
        I would suggest willow as an alternate. I ve found two willow covered bottles associated with the Royal Navy. What I found most interesting was that while they
        Message 3 of 17 , Apr 2 7:31 PM
          I would suggest willow as an alternate. I've found two willow
          covered bottles associated with the Royal Navy. What I found most
          interesting was that while they had many similarities they are
          separated by 250-300 years.
          Cheers,
          Patrick

          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Peter Monahan <petemonahan@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > I would suggest that a period looking bottle - check an antiques
          book for proper shape - covered in leather would be both HA enough
          for all but the thread counters, nicve to look at and reasonably
          durable. Mr. Lazon has/had one I quite liked!
          >
          > I'll even provide the leather and/or labour for anyone interested.
          >
          > Peter monahan
          > ============================================================
          > From: "mccombs98" <macomb@...>
          > Date: 2006/03/31 Fri PM 07:18:09 EST
          > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: Historical Authenticity? Sailors and
          Canteens?
          >
          > A glass or plastic properly shaped bottle wrapped in leather works
          well
          > for me. The water remains fresh and cool for quite a long time.
          > Murray
          >
          >
          >
          > "Patrick Schifferdecker" <boldbritishhero@> wrote:
          > >
          > > A solution for gun crews would be to have a scuttlebutt, just
          like
          > > aboard ship. Landing parties may need some other alternatives.
          > > Canteens?, maybe stoneware flasks? or any of Angela's
          suggestions or
          > > even a mixture. Or unit leadship/event organizers needs to
          include
          > > this in planning. I can here it now..."How do we water the navy?"
          > >
          > > Cheers,
          > > Lt. Patrick Schifferdecker
          > > Naval Establishment
          > > Crown Forces North America
          > >
          > > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Angela Gottfred" <agottfre@>
          > > wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Given the wide variety of canteens
          > > > > that appear at 1812 reenactments, we need your guidance in
          > > selecting the
          > > > > most authentic style acceptable for our portrayal to ensure
          that
          > > they will
          > > > > not forever be criticized as not being authentic
          > > >
          > > > I apologize if the following comments show I'm out of my
          depth,
          > > but in fur trade
          > > > portrayals of the same era, we encountered similar problems--
          zero
          > > documentation
          > > > for canteens, but a very real need for some source of water.
          Here
          > > are some
          > > > suggestions for you for improvised containers, rather than
          > > canteens:
          > > > reproduction glass bottles; an extra-large mug (1/2 litre
          size)
          > > with cover; or a
          > > > specially designated wooden pail full of fresh water, that
          period
          > > mugs can be
          > > > filled from with a clean dipper.
          > > >
          > > > Your humble & obedient servant,
          > > > Angela Gottfred
          > > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
          hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the
          fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
          >
          > Unit Contact information for North America:
          > ---------------------------------
          > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          >
          > American Forces Unit Listing
          > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ============================================================
          >
        • Lalozon
          From: Sgt. Seufert We also keep several stoneware jugs, one for grog (which Sir Larry can attest) I do so attest! ...Yum!
          Message 4 of 17 , Apr 3 7:29 AM
            From: "Sgt. Seufert" <LCpl_RM@...>

            "We also keep several stoneware jugs, one for grog (which Sir Larry can
            attest)


            I do so attest! ...Yum!
            .........................

            There's a company that is making beer and ale and bottling it in repopped
            18th century bottles ..


            For the Ontario'ians on this group

            The LCBO Liquor Store sells a UK beer that is bottled in a 18th century
            green bottle .



            Yrs.,
            L2

            Fantasy is the last refuge of the Gentleman!
            -Peter Catley-
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