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Historical Authenticity? Sailors and Canteens?

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  • Lalozon
    From: Gordon Deans gord.deans@sympatico.ca Larry, Precisely our dilemma regarding authenticity. ... Gord Many have emailed me off this WarOf1812 yahoo Group
    Message 1 of 17 , Mar 31, 2006
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      From: "Gordon Deans" gord.deans@...


      Larry,

      Precisely our dilemma regarding authenticity. ...






      Gord

      Many have emailed me off this WarOf1812 yahoo Group stating this is a
      personal conversation.


      I will answer your email OFF this Yahoo Group and would appreciate if when
      using my name you do likewise


      Thanking you in advance

      Larry Lozon
    • Angela Gottfred
      Given the wide variety of canteens ... I apologize if the following comments show I m out of my depth, but in fur trade portrayals of the same era, we
      Message 2 of 17 , Mar 31, 2006
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        Given the wide variety of canteens
        > that appear at 1812 reenactments, we need your guidance in selecting the
        > most authentic style acceptable for our portrayal to ensure that they will
        > not forever be criticized as not being authentic

        I apologize if the following comments show I'm out of my depth, but in fur trade
        portrayals of the same era, we encountered similar problems--zero documentation
        for canteens, but a very real need for some source of water. Here are some
        suggestions for you for improvised containers, rather than canteens:
        reproduction glass bottles; an extra-large mug (1/2 litre size) with cover; or a
        specially designated wooden pail full of fresh water, that period mugs can be
        filled from with a clean dipper.

        Your humble & obedient servant,
        Angela Gottfred
      • mccombs98
        British Capt. Dobbs cutting out expedition leading up to the Seige of Fort Erie, 1814 would be a fine example of sailors requiring a container to carry water.
        Message 3 of 17 , Mar 31, 2006
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          British Capt. Dobbs cutting out expedition leading up to the Seige of
          Fort Erie, 1814 would be a fine example of sailors requiring a
          container to carry water. If canteens were not general issue, I would
          expect a hodge podge of period correct containers being use.
          In the absence of primary source outlining these, just as we would
          assume these sailors wore shoes, they would also require water.
          Murray


          "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...> wrote:
          >
          > Larry,
          >
          > Precisely our dilemma regarding authenticity.
          >
          > After last summer's serious safety problem at Fort George's School of the
          > Sailor involving dehydration, we must ensure that our Naval gun crews are
          > adequately provided with sufficient fresh drinking water on the field, while
          > they wait for the battles to begin.
          >
          > Nobody wants to see plastic bottles of water anywhere at a reenactment so
          > our sailors will have to carry canteens. Given the wide variety of canteens
          > that appear at 1812 reenactments, we need your guidance in selecting the
          > most authentic style acceptable for our portrayal to ensure that they will
          > not forever be criticized as not being authentic.
          >
          > It is common sense that somewhere at sometime some sailors were on land
          > during the War of 1812 and some of them must have drunk some water from some
          > containers. I realize that I am jumping to a conclusion here without proper
          > references, but we need to face up to the need and choose a solution.
          >
          > I am hopeful that you or Admiral Suthren can provide an acceptable solution.
          >
          > Gord Deans
          >
          > P.S. We wish that there were some ships for us to go back to.
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Lalozon" <lalozon@...>
          > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 11:02 AM
          > Subject: [WarOf1812] Historical Authenticity? Pet Peeves?
          >
          >
          > > From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>
          > > "... sailors should be carrying canteens instead of plastic water bottles
          > ..."
          >
          >
          > > Mr. Suthren, correct me if I am wrong ...
          > >
          > > Sailors were never issued canteens.
          > >
          > > Aboard ship they would have no need of them.
          > >
          > > "Plastic" had not been invented in 1812.
          > >
          > > Yrs.,
          > > L2
          >
        • Thomas Hurlbut
          Hmm.. I seem to remember reading that the warships on the lakes did not have to carry drinking water (in those days, I suppose it was safe just to dip your mug
          Message 4 of 17 , Mar 31, 2006
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            Hmm..

            I seem to remember reading that the warships on the lakes did not have to carry drinking water (in those days, I suppose it was safe just to dip your mug overboard), so it may be that, as long as the sailors were near enough to fresh water, it was expected for them to take their water breaks at the lake, river, etc. In general, due to the normal rationing of sailors' drinking water, they were used to having water only when told.

            For inland operations, they may have been issued with whatever the Marines were given (unless water was carried in bulk!!). Considering that sailors spent many more hours of their lives engaged in operations where salt water was the norm, they simply must have been issued with something when away from the ship.

            I would suggest that sailors use "Marine" stuff or the earlier tin canteens.

            It is interesting to note that "my own" US Infantry group does not use a standard canteen as we don't like the price of the US wooden ones we've found. There goes accuracy for economic reasons!

            Some members of my French group for F&I carry plastic water bottles in little canvas shoulder bags to hide their obviously modern look. At best, I think it's a poor compromise, but the gourd canteens which I am told are proper don't seem to stand up to any kind of shock. I use tin.

            Safety would dictate we carry water in whatever container we can, as long as we carry water.

            Let's just keep the plastic out of sight.

            In looking at the website posted regarding British wooden canteens, I notice that they were issued and in general use from 1793-1861. With the recent postings and facinating information regarding sergeants' tents, I note that the word "skirts" denoting some attachment to the bottoms of the canvas roof of the tent does not seem to retain it's original meaning or at least, can not be proven to do so from the period that we re-enact to the Crimean War when there is documentation. Perhaps those who have spent a great deal of time in military service could offer their opinions on how long the British Army holds on to its terminology, methods and equipment, particularly in times of relative peace (say, 1815-54?).

            Furthermore, in the absence of "proof", maybe conjecture, particularly of the practical kind, is what we should go with.

            Cheers!

            Thomas Hurlbut
            US 25th and
            Provincial Marine


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Allison
            Hmmmm... I have to disagree with the opinion of those who feel this is a personal issue. As another naval reenactor (and there are actually quite a few of us
            Message 5 of 17 , Mar 31, 2006
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              Hmmmm... I have to disagree with the opinion of those who feel this
              is a personal issue. As another naval reenactor (and there are
              actually quite a few of us in this Group), the subject under
              discussion is quite pertinent to my impression and that of my unit.
              And this applies equally to other PM/RN reenactment units.

              As someone else pointed out recently, we each have the option of
              disregarding posts which are not of particular interest to us. (I
              will readily admit to doing this frequently when Army equipment and
              uniforms are being discussed.) But this board is designed to
              facilitate communications for ALL reenactors, not just land forces.
              Granted, we also have a Group of our own... but we frequently need
              the input of non-naval reenactors with the requisite historical
              knowledge to get us pointed in the right direction, as in this
              current matter re: canteens. We come to this venue, where we are all
              supposedly welcome, for that purpose, and to socialize with our
              fellow 1812 reenactors of all types. I sincerely hope that this
              spirit will continue.

              YH&OS,
              ~Dale

              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Lalozon" <lalozon@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > From: "Gordon Deans" gord.deans@...
              >
              >
              > Larry,
              >
              > Precisely our dilemma regarding authenticity. ...
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Gord
              >
              > Many have emailed me off this WarOf1812 yahoo Group stating this is
              a
              > personal conversation.
              >
              >
              > I will answer your email OFF this Yahoo Group and would appreciate
              if when
              > using my name you do likewise
              >
              >
              > Thanking you in advance
              >
              > Larry Lozon
              >
            • Patrick Schifferdecker
              A solution for gun crews would be to have a scuttlebutt, just like aboard ship. Landing parties may need some other alternatives. Canteens?, maybe stoneware
              Message 6 of 17 , Mar 31, 2006
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                A solution for gun crews would be to have a scuttlebutt, just like
                aboard ship. Landing parties may need some other alternatives.
                Canteens?, maybe stoneware flasks? or any of Angela's suggestions or
                even a mixture. Or unit leadship/event organizers needs to include
                this in planning. I can here it now..."How do we water the navy?"

                Cheers,
                Lt. Patrick Schifferdecker
                Naval Establishment
                Crown Forces North America

                --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Angela Gottfred" <agottfre@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Given the wide variety of canteens
                > > that appear at 1812 reenactments, we need your guidance in
                selecting the
                > > most authentic style acceptable for our portrayal to ensure that
                they will
                > > not forever be criticized as not being authentic
                >
                > I apologize if the following comments show I'm out of my depth,
                but in fur trade
                > portrayals of the same era, we encountered similar problems--zero
                documentation
                > for canteens, but a very real need for some source of water. Here
                are some
                > suggestions for you for improvised containers, rather than
                canteens:
                > reproduction glass bottles; an extra-large mug (1/2 litre size)
                with cover; or a
                > specially designated wooden pail full of fresh water, that period
                mugs can be
                > filled from with a clean dipper.
                >
                > Your humble & obedient servant,
                > Angela Gottfred
                >
              • Jim Pierce
                Patrick, Beer...well that is how the RN would have done it :7] Sincerely though, we do make great compromises in our portrayals to Army PC and site
                Message 7 of 17 , Mar 31, 2006
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                  Patrick,

                  Beer...well that is how the RN would have done it :7] Sincerely though, we do make great compromises in our portrayals to "Army PC" and "site management"...who, not incidently have the lips of the army impressions glued to their ears. Don't get me wrong, safety is paramount, but if we want to play "army" in different outfits, we need to rearrange our priorities. The Navy wasn't the army.

                  Personally for events I use a recreated period Gin Bottle to carry water on the field. I've hitched a hemp covering for the bottle to give it some strength. It is beautiful, looks "maritime", and satisfies the site requirements to be "watered" on the field.

                  Fair Winds,

                  Jim Pierce


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Patrick Schifferdecker
                  Exactly right Jim...a gallon a day, by regulation. But as a site manager, I don t think that will fly. ... though, we do make great compromises in our
                  Message 8 of 17 , Mar 31, 2006
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                    Exactly right Jim...a gallon a day, by regulation. But as a site
                    manager, I don't think that will fly.

                    --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Pierce" <highlandpeat@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Patrick,
                    >
                    > Beer...well that is how the RN would have done it :7] Sincerely
                    though, we do make great compromises in our portrayals to "Army PC"
                    and "site management"...who, not incidently have the lips of the
                    army impressions glued to their ears. Don't get me wrong, safety is
                    paramount, but if we want to play "army" in different outfits, we
                    need to rearrange our priorities. The Navy wasn't the army.
                    >
                    > Personally for events I use a recreated period Gin Bottle to carry
                    water on the field. I've hitched a hemp covering for the bottle to
                    give it some strength. It is beautiful, looks "maritime", and
                    satisfies the site requirements to be "watered" on the field.
                    >
                    > Fair Winds,
                    >
                    > Jim Pierce
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • mccombs98
                    A glass or plastic properly shaped bottle wrapped in leather works well for me. The water remains fresh and cool for quite a long time. Murray
                    Message 9 of 17 , Mar 31, 2006
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                      A glass or plastic properly shaped bottle wrapped in leather works well
                      for me. The water remains fresh and cool for quite a long time.
                      Murray



                      "Patrick Schifferdecker" <boldbritishhero@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > A solution for gun crews would be to have a scuttlebutt, just like
                      > aboard ship. Landing parties may need some other alternatives.
                      > Canteens?, maybe stoneware flasks? or any of Angela's suggestions or
                      > even a mixture. Or unit leadship/event organizers needs to include
                      > this in planning. I can here it now..."How do we water the navy?"
                      >
                      > Cheers,
                      > Lt. Patrick Schifferdecker
                      > Naval Establishment
                      > Crown Forces North America
                      >
                      > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Angela Gottfred" <agottfre@>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Given the wide variety of canteens
                      > > > that appear at 1812 reenactments, we need your guidance in
                      > selecting the
                      > > > most authentic style acceptable for our portrayal to ensure that
                      > they will
                      > > > not forever be criticized as not being authentic
                      > >
                      > > I apologize if the following comments show I'm out of my depth,
                      > but in fur trade
                      > > portrayals of the same era, we encountered similar problems--zero
                      > documentation
                      > > for canteens, but a very real need for some source of water. Here
                      > are some
                      > > suggestions for you for improvised containers, rather than
                      > canteens:
                      > > reproduction glass bottles; an extra-large mug (1/2 litre size)
                      > with cover; or a
                      > > specially designated wooden pail full of fresh water, that period
                      > mugs can be
                      > > filled from with a clean dipper.
                      > >
                      > > Your humble & obedient servant,
                      > > Angela Gottfred
                      > >
                      >
                    • Jim Pierce
                      Right Patrick :7] I wouldn t want it to fly either. Fair Winds, Jim Pierce [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Message 10 of 17 , Mar 31, 2006
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                        Right Patrick :7] I wouldn't want it to fly either.

                        Fair Winds,

                        Jim Pierce


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Peter Monahan
                        I would suggest that a period looking bottle - check an antiques book for proper shape - covered in leather would be both HA enough for all but the thread
                        Message 11 of 17 , Apr 1, 2006
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                          I would suggest that a period looking bottle - check an antiques book for proper shape - covered in leather would be both HA enough for all but the thread counters, nicve to look at and reasonably durable. Mr. Lazon has/had one I quite liked!

                          I'll even provide the leather and/or labour for anyone interested.

                          Peter monahan
                          ============================================================
                          From: "mccombs98" <macomb@...>
                          Date: 2006/03/31 Fri PM 07:18:09 EST
                          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: Historical Authenticity? Sailors and Canteens?

                          A glass or plastic properly shaped bottle wrapped in leather works well
                          for me. The water remains fresh and cool for quite a long time.
                          Murray



                          "Patrick Schifferdecker" <boldbritishhero@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > A solution for gun crews would be to have a scuttlebutt, just like
                          > aboard ship. Landing parties may need some other alternatives.
                          > Canteens?, maybe stoneware flasks? or any of Angela's suggestions or
                          > even a mixture. Or unit leadship/event organizers needs to include
                          > this in planning. I can here it now..."How do we water the navy?"
                          >
                          > Cheers,
                          > Lt. Patrick Schifferdecker
                          > Naval Establishment
                          > Crown Forces North America
                          >
                          > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Angela Gottfred" <agottfre@>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Given the wide variety of canteens
                          > > > that appear at 1812 reenactments, we need your guidance in
                          > selecting the
                          > > > most authentic style acceptable for our portrayal to ensure that
                          > they will
                          > > > not forever be criticized as not being authentic
                          > >
                          > > I apologize if the following comments show I'm out of my depth,
                          > but in fur trade
                          > > portrayals of the same era, we encountered similar problems--zero
                          > documentation
                          > > for canteens, but a very real need for some source of water. Here
                          > are some
                          > > suggestions for you for improvised containers, rather than
                          > canteens:
                          > > reproduction glass bottles; an extra-large mug (1/2 litre size)
                          > with cover; or a
                          > > specially designated wooden pail full of fresh water, that period
                          > mugs can be
                          > > filled from with a clean dipper.
                          > >
                          > > Your humble & obedient servant,
                          > > Angela Gottfred
                          > >
                          >






                          The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                          Unit Contact information for North America:
                          ---------------------------------
                          Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                          http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                          American Forces Unit Listing
                          http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                          Yahoo! Groups Links





                          ============================================================
                        • Dale Kidd
                          ... for proper shape - covered in leather would be both HA enough for all but the thread counters, nicve to look at and reasonably durable. Mr. Lazon has/had
                          Message 12 of 17 , Apr 2, 2006
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                            --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Peter Monahan <petemonahan@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I would suggest that a period looking bottle - check an antiques book
                            for proper shape - covered in leather would be both HA enough for all
                            but the thread counters, nicve to look at and reasonably durable. Mr.
                            Lazon has/had one I quite liked!
                            >
                            > I'll even provide the leather and/or labour for anyone interested.
                            >
                            > Peter monahan


                            Also appropriate to period, I believe, is a bottle wrapped in cord. I
                            carry one of these, although when Allison made mine for me, she took
                            the liberty of gluing the cord down so that it would not always be
                            unwrapping. This also protects you if the bottle get broken... holds it
                            all together. (I am a firm believer that minor modern touches that do
                            not detract from authentic appearance are not only acceptable, but
                            desireable. They make the maintenance of our gear far simpler and less
                            time consuming, which is a neccessity since we are not living in the
                            days when these things were ALL we had to deal with.)

                            I should note that we have several (half-dozen or so) extra of these
                            bottles made up, and available for sale... cheap. (I'm trying to clear
                            out all the extra "stuff" we have lying around.) Anyone wanting one can
                            contact Allison or myself off-list for details, and I'll bring the
                            bottles to Longwoods in May for them.

                            Keep yer powder dry.
                            ~Dale
                          • LCpl_rm
                            Jim/Patrick Been going over my narratives on the Chesapeake campaigns and though I ve found a couple of statements about the sailors of the Naval Battalions
                            Message 13 of 17 , Apr 2, 2006
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                              Jim/Patrick

                              Been going over my narratives on the Chesapeake campaigns and though I've found a couple of statements about the sailors of the Naval Battalions eating biscuit from their haversacks, there's nothing about water. And surely with the heat and humidity down here in the summer, there would have been a need to carry or obtain water.

                              The only mention of canteens comes from Major Wybourn in his diary in April 1813, he relates that he was ordered to gather 80 men and a subaltern for an expedition. Accordingly he "proceeded, armed and provided with everything necessary: canteens; camp kettles & a blanket each man." Major Wybourn was then Captain of the company of Royal Marines aboard the HMS Marlborough and its unclear whether the statement pertains to just his detachment or the entire expedition which consisted of over 150 Marines and 200 Sailors.

                              For ourselves, naturally we carry canteens but for camp, we carry canvas buckets and keep several filled; one at least near the campfire. The advantage of canvas buckets is that they can be easily folded and stored in a small space unlike woodenware. We generally have one of our tinware pots filled with water also. We also keep several stoneware jugs, one for grog (which Sir Larry can attest) and another usually for cinnamon water. We will probably add a third for wine since the alternative for beer and grog in a sailors diet is wine.

                              There's a company that is making beer and ale and bottling it in repopped 18th century bottles of which we have gotten a few.

                              As far as carrying extra water into the field, a couple of ship's boys carry canvas buckets would be more appropriate then camp followers.

                              My two shillings worth,

                              Cheers,

                              Ed Seufert, Cpl
                              1812 Royal Marines
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Jim Pierce
                              To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 7:31 PM
                              Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Re: Historical Authenticity? Sailors and Canteens?


                              Patrick,

                              Beer...well that is how the RN would have done it :7] Sincerely though, we do make great compromises in our portrayals to "Army PC" and "site management"...who, not incidently have the lips of the army impressions glued to their ears. Don't get me wrong, safety is paramount, but if we want to play "army" in different outfits, we need to rearrange our priorities. The Navy wasn't the army.

                              Personally for events I use a recreated period Gin Bottle to carry water on the field. I've hitched a hemp covering for the bottle to give it some strength. It is beautiful, looks "maritime", and satisfies the site requirements to be "watered" on the field.

                              Fair Winds,

                              Jim Pierce


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                              The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                              Unit Contact information for North America:
                              ---------------------------------
                              Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                              http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                              American Forces Unit Listing
                              http://usforces1812.tripod.com



                              SPONSORED LINKS United kingdom Living history War of 1812


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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Patrick Schifferdecker
                              Ed, Please give the citation for sailors and haversacks. Cheers, Patrick ... though I ve found a couple of statements about the sailors of the Naval Battalions
                              Message 14 of 17 , Apr 2, 2006
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                                Ed,
                                Please give the citation for sailors and haversacks.

                                Cheers,
                                Patrick

                                --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "LCpl_rm" <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Jim/Patrick
                                >
                                > Been going over my narratives on the Chesapeake campaigns and
                                though I've found a couple of statements about the sailors of the
                                Naval Battalions eating biscuit from their haversacks, there's
                                nothing about water. And surely with the heat and humidity down
                                here in the summer, there would have been a need to carry or obtain
                                water.
                                >
                                > The only mention of canteens comes from Major Wybourn in his diary
                                in April 1813, he relates that he was ordered to gather 80 men and a
                                subaltern for an expedition. Accordingly he "proceeded, armed and
                                provided with everything necessary: canteens; camp kettles & a
                                blanket each man." Major Wybourn was then Captain of the company of
                                Royal Marines aboard the HMS Marlborough and its unclear whether the
                                statement pertains to just his detachment or the entire expedition
                                which consisted of over 150 Marines and 200 Sailors.
                                >
                                > For ourselves, naturally we carry canteens but for camp, we carry
                                canvas buckets and keep several filled; one at least near the
                                campfire. The advantage of canvas buckets is that they can be
                                easily folded and stored in a small space unlike woodenware. We
                                generally have one of our tinware pots filled with water also. We
                                also keep several stoneware jugs, one for grog (which Sir Larry can
                                attest) and another usually for cinnamon water. We will probably
                                add a third for wine since the alternative for beer and grog in a
                                sailors diet is wine.
                                >
                                > There's a company that is making beer and ale and bottling it in
                                repopped 18th century bottles of which we have gotten a few.
                                >
                                > As far as carrying extra water into the field, a couple of ship's
                                boys carry canvas buckets would be more appropriate then camp
                                followers.
                                >
                                > My two shillings worth,
                                >
                                > Cheers,
                                >
                                > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                                > 1812 Royal Marines
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: Jim Pierce
                                > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 7:31 PM
                                > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Re: Historical Authenticity? Sailors
                                and Canteens?
                                >
                                >
                                > Patrick,
                                >
                                > Beer...well that is how the RN would have done it :7] Sincerely
                                though, we do make great compromises in our portrayals to "Army PC"
                                and "site management"...who, not incidently have the lips of the
                                army impressions glued to their ears. Don't get me wrong, safety is
                                paramount, but if we want to play "army" in different outfits, we
                                need to rearrange our priorities. The Navy wasn't the army.
                                >
                                > Personally for events I use a recreated period Gin Bottle to
                                carry water on the field. I've hitched a hemp covering for the
                                bottle to give it some strength. It is beautiful, looks "maritime",
                                and satisfies the site requirements to be "watered" on the field.
                                >
                                > Fair Winds,
                                >
                                > Jim Pierce
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                                hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the
                                fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
                                >
                                > Unit Contact information for North America:
                                > ---------------------------------
                                > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                                > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                                >
                                > American Forces Unit Listing
                                > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > SPONSORED LINKS United kingdom Living history War of 1812
                                >
                                >
                                > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                -----------
                                > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                >
                                > a.. Visit your group "WarOf1812" on the web.
                                >
                                > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                >
                                > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                                of Service.
                                >
                                >
                                > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                -----------
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • Patrick Schifferdecker
                                I would suggest willow as an alternate. I ve found two willow covered bottles associated with the Royal Navy. What I found most interesting was that while they
                                Message 15 of 17 , Apr 2, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I would suggest willow as an alternate. I've found two willow
                                  covered bottles associated with the Royal Navy. What I found most
                                  interesting was that while they had many similarities they are
                                  separated by 250-300 years.
                                  Cheers,
                                  Patrick

                                  --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Peter Monahan <petemonahan@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I would suggest that a period looking bottle - check an antiques
                                  book for proper shape - covered in leather would be both HA enough
                                  for all but the thread counters, nicve to look at and reasonably
                                  durable. Mr. Lazon has/had one I quite liked!
                                  >
                                  > I'll even provide the leather and/or labour for anyone interested.
                                  >
                                  > Peter monahan
                                  > ============================================================
                                  > From: "mccombs98" <macomb@...>
                                  > Date: 2006/03/31 Fri PM 07:18:09 EST
                                  > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: Historical Authenticity? Sailors and
                                  Canteens?
                                  >
                                  > A glass or plastic properly shaped bottle wrapped in leather works
                                  well
                                  > for me. The water remains fresh and cool for quite a long time.
                                  > Murray
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > "Patrick Schifferdecker" <boldbritishhero@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > A solution for gun crews would be to have a scuttlebutt, just
                                  like
                                  > > aboard ship. Landing parties may need some other alternatives.
                                  > > Canteens?, maybe stoneware flasks? or any of Angela's
                                  suggestions or
                                  > > even a mixture. Or unit leadship/event organizers needs to
                                  include
                                  > > this in planning. I can here it now..."How do we water the navy?"
                                  > >
                                  > > Cheers,
                                  > > Lt. Patrick Schifferdecker
                                  > > Naval Establishment
                                  > > Crown Forces North America
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Angela Gottfred" <agottfre@>
                                  > > wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Given the wide variety of canteens
                                  > > > > that appear at 1812 reenactments, we need your guidance in
                                  > > selecting the
                                  > > > > most authentic style acceptable for our portrayal to ensure
                                  that
                                  > > they will
                                  > > > > not forever be criticized as not being authentic
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I apologize if the following comments show I'm out of my
                                  depth,
                                  > > but in fur trade
                                  > > > portrayals of the same era, we encountered similar problems--
                                  zero
                                  > > documentation
                                  > > > for canteens, but a very real need for some source of water.
                                  Here
                                  > > are some
                                  > > > suggestions for you for improvised containers, rather than
                                  > > canteens:
                                  > > > reproduction glass bottles; an extra-large mug (1/2 litre
                                  size)
                                  > > with cover; or a
                                  > > > specially designated wooden pail full of fresh water, that
                                  period
                                  > > mugs can be
                                  > > > filled from with a clean dipper.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Your humble & obedient servant,
                                  > > > Angela Gottfred
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                                  hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the
                                  fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
                                  >
                                  > Unit Contact information for North America:
                                  > ---------------------------------
                                  > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                                  > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                                  >
                                  > American Forces Unit Listing
                                  > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ============================================================
                                  >
                                • Lalozon
                                  From: Sgt. Seufert We also keep several stoneware jugs, one for grog (which Sir Larry can attest) I do so attest! ...Yum!
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Apr 3, 2006
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                                    From: "Sgt. Seufert" <LCpl_RM@...>

                                    "We also keep several stoneware jugs, one for grog (which Sir Larry can
                                    attest)


                                    I do so attest! ...Yum!
                                    .........................

                                    There's a company that is making beer and ale and bottling it in repopped
                                    18th century bottles ..


                                    For the Ontario'ians on this group

                                    The LCBO Liquor Store sells a UK beer that is bottled in a 18th century
                                    green bottle .



                                    Yrs.,
                                    L2

                                    Fantasy is the last refuge of the Gentleman!
                                    -Peter Catley-
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