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Re: TECUMSEH'S Bones

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  • wolf_bna
    ... the yahoogroup, for I find it interesting just to sit back and read what is written by everyone else. However, being a first nations person, I feel that
    Message 1 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
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      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Casey Coleman <colemancase@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Hello everyone... I usually don't reply to the things written in
      the yahoogroup, for I find it interesting just to sit back and read
      what is written by everyone else. However, being a first nations
      person, I feel that I should say something on the topic of
      Tecumseh's remains...I wouldn't think that he would pass into Mohawk
      hands, due to the fact that he had few followers from the band.
      >
      >
      >
      > Case "Masta" C.
      >
      > we will always remember you
      > Jay "Masta" J.
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      >
      > What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


      Seko rontatatekena,
      Skennen ken

      Understand that I mean no disrespect in my response to your post.

      You mention that you are a "First Nations Person" and as such you
      should be aware of the burial conspiracy that I mentioned in my
      previous post (as it is common knowledge among our people).

      You also slam the Mohawk Nation's involvement in "handling Tecumseh's
      body" in regards to what you think. You base your thought on "the
      fact that he (Tecumseh) had few followers from the (Mohawk) band."

      Tecumseh did not have to recruit followers from the Six Nations
      because the Six Nations had already been allied to eachother for one
      thousand eight hundred years. As I explained in my previous post the
      Peacemaker Tekanawita (a Weyndot or Huron) had already set out to
      bring all of the Nations of North and South America together as one
      people 1,800 years before Tecumseh.

      Tecumseh and Mohawk War Chief Teyoninhokarawen were good friends.
      Approximately 50 Grand River warriors fought with Tecumseh in his
      area of opperations. After Tecumseh was killed at the Thames many of
      his followers took refuge at Grand River including Tenskwatawa (the
      prophet) his brother. Some of the Shawnee and the other western
      Nations decendants still live here at Grand River to this day.

      In order to safeguard Tecumseh's remains ALL of the British allied
      Nations in the vicinity took part in a conspiracy to keep the
      location secret forever. This was accomplished by having
      several "grave sites" provided in several communities throughout
      various locations in the region. We also have one here at Grand River.

      In closing I'd like to mention that we do not refer to ourselves as
      bands! A band provides music for patrons in a bar on week-ends. We
      are Sovereign peoples and refer to ourselves as Nations.

      Of coarse you don't have to take my word for anything that I have
      stated. Therefore, I offer to you my personal invitation to come to
      Grand River Territory to speak to the Six Nations people or to the
      people of the Shawnee Nation the next time they come to visit us.

      If you are interested please let me know and I will make all of the
      necessary arangements.

      Niawen ikhsa's,
      Okwaho Ronnatanonnha
    • CalvertMck@aol.com
      In a message dated 2/2/2006 7:56:17 AM Central Standard Time, britishnativeallies@rogers.com writes: Tecumseh did not have to recruit followers from the Six
      Message 2 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
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        In a message dated 2/2/2006 7:56:17 AM Central Standard Time,
        britishnativeallies@... writes:


        Tecumseh did not have to recruit followers from the Six Nations
        because the Six Nations had already been allied to eachother for one
        thousand eight hundred years. As I explained in my previous post the
        Peacemaker Tekanawita (a Weyndot or Huron) had already set out to
        bring all of the Nations of North and South America together as one
        people 1,800 years before Tecumseh.
        If the Nations leaders had it to do all over again, do you think the Weyndot
        would be successful in bringing all of the Nations, north and south together
        to explore unity past, present and future? Could this have changed the
        history of the discovery process?

        Tecumseh and Mohawk War Chief Teyoninhokarawen were good friends.
        Approximately 50 Grand River warriors fought with Tecumseh in his
        area of opperations. After Tecumseh was killed at the Thames many of
        his followers took refuge at Grand River including Tenskwatawa (the
        prophet) his brother. Some of the Shawnee and the other western
        Nations decendants still live here at Grand River to this day.

        If the friendship of the leaders were strong enough and the warriors for
        Grand River were still interested in the same area of operations - maybe the
        historical reports of Tecumseh were not reported correctly and Tecumseh were
        mearly wounded and not killed? Maybe the death was of slow nature, and due to
        complications of his wounds - this would have provided Tecumseh to bestow what
        made him sucessful over his nation to his best warriors to enable them to
        continue his legacy - but a price worth prolonging the agony of a slow and
        painful death due to complication and infection of his wounds. And the shot that
        he took in the rear end which was not accurately documented in history as his
        "pain in the ass" and thus the historical beginnings of such sematics.
        Strictly opinion of course and not a historical representation, but a a dillusion
        of some of his followers.

        In order to safeguard Tecumseh's remains ALL of the British allied
        Nations in the vicinity took part in a conspiracy to keep the
        location secret forever. This was accomplished by having
        several "grave sites" provided in several communities throughout
        various locations in the region. We also have one here at Grand River.

        Grand Ri ver and the many other "grave sites" should be honored to host the
        remains of Tecumseh's - I am sure some have altered their plans to make the
        grave site more accomodating for the "resting place", however Tecumseh had not
        requested or conveyed this to the newer warriors in the nation. However, if
        Tecumseh were to request this in todays nations the request would be honored
        to accomodate the needs or plans modified to insure his worthy warrior site
        needs were met.

        Strictly opinions and postulations of a non-posting lurker.






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • yawors1@uwindsor.ca
        I must confess I was stunned to read the following: maybe the historical reports of Tecumseh were not reported correctly and Tecumseh were mearly wounded and
        Message 3 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
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          I must confess I was stunned to read the following:

          "maybe the historical reports of Tecumseh were not reported correctly and
          Tecumseh were
          mearly wounded and not killed? Maybe the death was of slow nature, and
          due to
          complications of his wounds - this would have provided Tecumseh to bestow
          what
          made him sucessful over his nation to his best warriors to enable them to

          continue his legacy - but a price worth prolonging the agony of a slow
          and
          painful death due to complication and infection of his wounds. And the
          shot that
          he took in the rear end which was not accurately documented in history as
          his
          "pain in the ass" and thus the historical beginnings of such sematics.
          Strictly opinion of course and not a historical representation, but a a
          dillusion
          of some of his followers."

          I have never seen any of this suggested in any source, primary or
          secondary, that I have come across so far. Are these musings just
          supposition, based on wishful thinking? If there are serious sources for
          these statements, I'm sure we'd all like to hear about them.

          Harrison was quite sure Tecumseh had been killed. He knew Tecumseh by
          sight. So how could he have been so sure, if he didn't see the body? I
          haven't read Harrison's papers so I don't know the particulars of what he
          had to say on this - can anybody enlighten us?

          There are primary sources that involve officers of the 41st Regiment who
          were captured at Moraviantown, who were shown a number of bodies after the
          battle and asked to verify the identities of any they knew. All these
          officers knew Tecumseh well by sight.

          Not to be unduly gruesome, but they state they saw Tecumseh's body, and it
          had been most foully mutilated, presumably by "souvenir hunters". It is
          difficult in the year 2006 to get yourself in the frame of mind where you
          can understand the motivation for somebody wanting a razor strop or
          tobacco pouch made out of human skin. But there you go - it happened in
          frontier warfare.

          If the officers' first-hand accounts are true, and there is no apparent
          reason why they would be lying, then it would seem very unlikely that
          Tecumseh's remains could be recovered until the Americans withrew towards
          Detroit. This withdrawal did happen fairly quickly, Harrison withdrew
          towards Detroit the day after the battle. In the interim, were these
          bodies buried on the field? I believe the British casualties were buried,
          but were the Native Warriors who had been killed left out to rot? We must
          recognize the racism that pervaded "civilized" attitudes to "savages" at
          the time of the War of 1812 - and long after, unfortunately.

          I haven't run across anything yet that details what happened to these
          bodies after the British officers saw them, then were led off towards
          eventual captivity in Ohio and Kentucky. So it's not impossible that a
          body could have been recovered a day or two after the battle, whether by
          digging up all the new graves until the body was found, or finding it
          still lying on the field. Either way, the body must have been in rough
          shape. The point here is that Tecumseh's body - dead or alive - was
          apparently not carried back to "safety" (from disrespectful acts of
          American frontiersmen, presumably) by Native Warriors as they retreated
          from the field. At best, it was recovered a day or two later, after
          having been foully mutilated.

          Hero myths are actually a very interesting field of study. It is
          instructive to compare some recurring stories about great figures. One
          story is the idea that the hero doesn't die, but is off somewhere sleeping
          until needed again (King Arthur, Sir Francis Drake, etc.).
          The psychology behind all such stories seems clearer if you stand back and
          look at them as a group. Put simply, a profound sense of loss leads to a
          certain amount of wishful thinking.

          Jim Yaworsky
          41st

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • wolf_bna
          As I am not Shawnee I cannot speak on their behalf. I can however relay what I have been told by them as well as my Nation s own oral history. I have never
          Message 4 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
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            As I am not Shawnee I cannot speak on their behalf. I can however
            relay what I have been told by them as well as my Nation's own oral
            history.

            I have never heard any such story that claimed Tecumseh was carried
            from the field alive only to die at some other time and location. It
            is not within our oral history nor what I've heard from the Shawnee,
            the Lenape, or the Chippawas of the Themes, Walpole Island, Stoney
            and Kettle Points etc.

            The oral history has always been clear that he was killed in the
            battle and his body was recovered. The military tradition (especially
            among the U.S. Army's Rangers) of recovering the bodies of their
            fellow soldiers from the field can trace it's roots to this Native
            trait. If the bodies were removed by the American or British soldiers
            and even buried by them, they still would have been recovered by the
            Natives. I am not at liberty to detail the ceremony we call Ohkiweh
            or "The Feast Of The Dead" but, it involves the remains of our
            ancestors. It is just as important as the Condolence at death.

            At the Battle of Oriskany during the American Revolutionary War, the
            bodies of ALL of the Seneca and Mohawk Warriors were recovered and
            given the proper ceremonies to send them to the Spirit World. An
            extremely important ritual among Native people. The bodies of the
            Tryon County Militia still lay where they fell on the battle field to
            this day.

            The "burial site conspiracy" was devised by the Nations to detour
            anyone from finding and desecrating his resting place.

            For example Joseph Brant's remains are not buried at the Mohawk
            Chapel. His tomb was desecrated at the turn of the 20th century and
            his remains were taken and are lost forever. This is what the people
            were trying to prevent back then.
          • lalozon
            From: I must confess I was stunned to read the following: maybe the historical reports of .. Tecumseh were mearly wounded and not
            Message 5 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
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              From: <yawors1@...>

              " I must confess I was stunned to read the following: "maybe the historical
              reports of .. Tecumseh were mearly wounded and not killed? ... Harrison was
              quite sure Tecumseh had been killed. He knew Tecumseh by
              sight ...they state they saw Tecumseh's body, and it had been most foully
              mutilated, presumably by "souvenir hunters".
              .................

              From: "wolf_bna" <britishnativeallies@...>

              I have never heard any such story that claimed Tecumseh was carried
              from the field alive only to die at some other time and location.






              I agree with Mr. Yaworsky and Mr. Thomas


              Members of Ken Hall's 'Kentucky Light Dragoons' who have visited the
              Kentucky museums and have photos of a captured 41st Regiment drum, a lantern
              shade supposedly made from a piece of Tecumseh's back skin, etc., relics
              from the Battle of the Thames brought back to Kentucky by members of the
              Kentucky Forces who fought at the Battle of the Thames.

              They have also researched documents that reports the 'Kentucky Light
              Dragoons' and USA Forces victory at the Battle of the Thames and that
              Tecumseh was killed and identified as the Shawnee known as 'Tecumthe'.



              James Alexander Thom states that his book "PANTHER IN THE SKY"
              ISBN:0-345-30596-5 which chronicles the life of Tecumseh, was researched
              from original documents and Shawnee oral history which state Tecumseh was
              killed during the Battle of the Thames.

              As does John Sugden author of "TECUMSEH'S LAST STAND" ISBN: 0-8061-1944-6



              Altho reports verify for sure that Elvis is alive and works at a gas station
              in Hamtramik Michigan ....



              Yrs.,
              L2
            • Peter Monahan
              Mr Yaworski My reaction to the post you quote was the same as yours: shock. It was less than coherent and perhaps, to be charitable, an attempt to be
              Message 6 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
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                Mr Yaworski

                My reaction to the post you quote was the same as yours: shock. It was less than coherent and perhaps, to be charitable, an attempt to be humourous. as really "out there" speculation, I would suggest that it is an unprofitable avenue in which to invest much further discussion.

                Peter Monahan, Sgt Major, CFNA
                ============================================================


                " I must confess I was stunned to read the following: "maybe the historical reports of .. Tecumseh were mearly wounded and not killed? ...

                Harrison was quite sure Tecumseh had been killed. He knew Tecumseh by
                sight ...they state they saw Tecumseh's body, and it had been most foully mutilated, presumably by "souvenir hunters".
                .................

                From: "wolf_bna" <britishnativeallies@...>

                I have never heard any such story that claimed Tecumseh was carried
                from the field alive only to die at some other time and location.






                I agree with Mr. Yaworsky and Mr. Thomas


                Members of Ken Hall's 'Kentucky Light Dragoons' who have visited the
                Kentucky museums and have photos of a captured 41st Regiment drum, a lantern
                shade supposedly made from a piece of Tecumseh's back skin, etc., relics
                from the Battle of the Thames brought back to Kentucky by members of the
                Kentucky Forces who fought at the Battle of the Thames.

                They have also researched documents that reports the 'Kentucky Light
                Dragoons' and USA Forces victory at the Battle of the Thames and that
                Tecumseh was killed and identified as the Shawnee known as 'Tecumthe'.



                James Alexander Thom states that his book "PANTHER IN THE SKY"
                ISBN:0-345-30596-5 which chronicles the life of Tecumseh, was researched
                from original documents and Shawnee oral history which state Tecumseh was
                killed during the Battle of the Thames.

                As does John Sugden author of "TECUMSEH'S LAST STAND" ISBN: 0-8061-1944-6



                Altho reports verify for sure that Elvis is alive and works at a gas station
                in Hamtramik Michigan ....



                Yrs.,
                L2





                The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                Unit Contact information for North America:
                ---------------------------------
                Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                American Forces Unit Listing
                http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                Yahoo! Groups Links






                ============================================================
              • Scott McDonald
                This web page deals with several first hand accounts of Tecumseh s death. http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Cove/8286/tdeath.html enjoy Scott McD.
                Message 7 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
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                  This web page deals with several "first hand" accounts of Tecumseh's death.
                  http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Cove/8286/tdeath.html
                  enjoy

                  Scott McD.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Tom Fournier
                  From one of Wolf s postings: That can be attributed to British Alligence and a Mohawk War Chief named Teyoninhokarawen! I ll bet nobody has ever heard of him
                  Message 8 of 25 , Feb 4, 2006
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                    From one of Wolf's postings:

                    "That can be attributed to British Alligence and a Mohawk War Chief
                    named Teyoninhokarawen! I'll bet nobody has ever heard of him (trick
                    question)?"

                    Oh oh a trick question ...I was going to try Major John Norton ...

                    On another note, Wolf thank you for sharing your oral traditions and
                    your thoughts. To me they are a generous contribution, impactful and
                    the cause for reflection. It is impossible to picture the potential
                    outcomes of the conflict without considering your forefathers' many
                    significant contributions.

                    Your ally and your servant,

                    Tom Fournier
                    41st Regiment of Foot
                  • wolf_bna
                    ... and ... and ... potential ... Mr. Fournier...and all Sir, You are most welcome! Congratulations on the trick question! Teyoninhokarawen is indeed Major
                    Message 9 of 25 , Feb 4, 2006
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                      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Fournier"
                      <tom4141fournier@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > From one of Wolf's postings:
                      >
                      > "That can be attributed to British Alligence and a Mohawk War Chief
                      > named Teyoninhokarawen! I'll bet nobody has ever heard of him (trick
                      > question)?"
                      >
                      > Oh oh a trick question ...I was going to try Major John Norton ...
                      >
                      > On another note, Wolf thank you for sharing your oral traditions
                      and
                      > your thoughts. To me they are a generous contribution, impactful
                      and
                      > the cause for reflection. It is impossible to picture the
                      potential
                      > outcomes of the conflict without considering your forefathers' many
                      > significant contributions.
                      >
                      > Your ally and your servant,
                      >
                      > Tom Fournier
                      > 41st Regiment of Foot
                      >

                      Mr. Fournier...and all

                      Sir,

                      You are most welcome! Congratulations on the trick question!
                      Teyoninhokarawen is indeed Major John Norton. However, the average
                      Canadian doesn't know who he was.

                      It is our earnest hope that we do not offend anyone but rather
                      explain our history as it pertains to us. The difficult part of re-
                      enacting for us is that we are charged with maintaining and telling
                      our Nations' history as it has been passed down from those we speak
                      about. We still have a Nation and a Clan to anwser to should our
                      actions become dishonorable.

                      We have the precarious responsibility to speak on behalf of our
                      ancestors and ultimately our people. In doing so we often find
                      ourselves in a battle of our history versus someone else's version.
                      At times it can become extremely frustrating. As you witnessed at the
                      41st Lecture I expressed the notion that most of the "written"
                      historical accounts were not lies so much as they were "cultural
                      misunderstandings."

                      As you are aware you (and anyone else) are always welcome at our camp
                      to discuss our history and culture.

                      In Peace and Friendship,

                      Capt. Wolf Thomas BNA
                    • Stalin15@aol.com
                      This is an essay I wrote about on the topic of Tecumseh s body: Tecumseh: From Confusion to Legacy” The War of 1812 is often considered a forgotten war in
                      Message 10 of 25 , Feb 7, 2006
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                        This is an essay I wrote about on the topic of Tecumseh's body:


                        Tecumseh: From Confusion to Legacy”
                        The War of 1812 is often considered a forgotten war in the minds of most
                        Americans. From the beginning, the war went badly for the Americans, and
                        blunders were abound on the fighting fronts. The results of the Treaty of Ghent,
                        which ended the war, maintained the “status quos,” meaning each side will
                        revert themselves to a pre-war position. Despite the apparent tie, the war
                        created many folk heroes and events that live on to this day. Andrew Jackson won
                        a huge victory at the Battle of New Orleans, which was later immortalized in
                        a song. The president’s house was burned by the British, and with a new coat
                        of paint, became the White House. Lastly, Tecumseh, the leader of an
                        Indian confederation, was killed at the Battle of the Thames (1814). While, the
                        other events and heroes have a clear-cut victor and story, the story of
                        Tecumseh is unique. The tale of his death at the hands of the Americans has been
                        conflicting and shrouded in mystery. The result of his mysterious demise
                        has turned Tecumseh into a malleable figure and propelled him from confusion to
                        legacy.
                        The death of Tecumseh has often been a controversial issue and some of the
                        sources have become politically tainted, as his death became a political warm
                        spot during the 1840 presidential campaign. However, “[t]here exists no less
                        than forty-five (perhaps considerable more!) accounts”_[1]_
                        (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn1) of his death. These differing accounts are the fuels
                        that enhance Tecumseh’s mysterious death, as the competing players (British,
                        Americans, Indians) all have differing accounts of what happened to his
                        body. This paper will look at several claims of these three nations in order to
                        examine the confusion and creditability in thier claims.
                        In order to examine the claims, some background about the Battle of the
                        Thames needs to be considered. William Henry Harrison was commanding the
                        Americans, while the British were under command of General Procter and the Indians,
                        who were allied with the British, were under the control of Tecumseh. A
                        small swamp separated the forces. The Americans had around 3000 men arranged
                        such that they could swoop in, destroy the British lines, and descend upon the
                        Indians_[2]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn2) (see appendix A). Col.
                        Richard Mentor Johnson, leader of the Kentucky mounted rifles, was directed
                        “to take [the] ground to the left and forming upon that flank to endeavor to
                        turn the right of the Indians”._[3]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn3)
                        There are differing accounts of how many troops the British and Indians
                        had. Some put it as low as 1200_[4]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn4)
                        or as high as 2500;_[5]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn5) either way
                        the British and Indians were considerably outnumbered.
                        The battle itself lasted less then thirty minutes. Colonel Johnson, who was
                        on the left, charged to the right of the British line along with other
                        mounted men. This opened the door for additional infantry to pour through. The
                        British regulars “dispirited by long continued exposure and privation made but
                        a feeble resistance”_[6]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn6) and lasted
                        only a few minutes before surrendering. With the British left broken, and
                        Proctor fleeing, the Americans dismounted and converged upon the Indians.
                        Colonel Johnson was wounded “in a very painful part-his knuckles [and] in his
                        body”_[7]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn7) whlie leading this charge,
                        but was still able to aim and kill a tall, athletic and black-eyed warrior
                        with a dark complexion._[8]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn8)
                        Additional American troops broke through the swamp on the left and formed upon the
                        Indian rear. The fighting between the Kentuckians and Indians was short,
                        close-quarters and destructive. The natives lasted only a short while and in the “
                        usual Indian way Tecumseh’s warriors scattered and faded back through the
                        swamp”_[9]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn9) leaving only thirty-three
                        dead behind on the ground. It is among these thirty-three dead that Tecumseh’s
                        legacy starts.
                        The first claim by the Americans is that Colonel Richard Mentor Johnson
                        killed Tecumseh. However, as John Sugden, a professor at Hereward College in
                        England, points out, “[the] accounts from the Johnston camp fail to establish
                        that Tecumseh was killed by the Colonel,”_[10]_
                        (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn10) as many of the accounts are contradictory and have been used to
                        further his political career. Further evidence is gathered from his
                        appearance. Tecumseh was said to have a “face oval rather then angular [. . .] his
                        eyes clear, transparent hazel [. . .] and his complexion more of a light brown
                        or tan”_[11]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn11) and not that of the
                        black-eyed warrior that Johnson claimed to have killed. Additionally, the
                        wounds of Tecumseh needs to be called into quiestion. Benson Lossing, who wrote
                        the first comprehensive story of the War of 1812, recites Johnson’s claim to
                        have killed Tecumseh outright with a pistol shot through the head._[12]_
                        (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn12) However, William Caldwell remembers
                        overtaking and passing Tecumseh after the fight and noticed that a rifle bullet
                        penetrated his breast through his hunting coat._[13]_
                        (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn13) This contradictory evidence suggests that the traditional
                        claim of Johnson killing Tecumseh is at least problematic if not unfounded.
                        Another traditional claim that has been purported is that Tecumseh was
                        disfigured and skinned by the Americans. General George Sanderson, who was a
                        captain in the American army and who knew Tecumseh, “saw the Kentucky troops in
                        the very act of cutting the skin from the body of the chief”._[14]_
                        (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn14) This cannot be taken too seriously, as other
                        evidence suggests that “[a] fallen Potawatamie brave was probably taken for
                        Tecumseh [. . .] and mutilated.”_[15]_
                        (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn15) Additional evidence, coming from Tecumseh’s Indian friend Shabeni
                        (Roundhead), in Sugden’s book, reinforces the claim that Tecumseh was, “by the side
                        of [. . .] another Indian whose skin has been taken off [and his] body has
                        not been touched”._[16]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn16) General
                        Harrison, as reported by Allan Eckert, who wrote a biography of Tecumseh, viewed
                        the mutilated body and thought, “it much too small”._[17]_
                        (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn17) This just adds to the confusion and contradictory
                        evidence serves to expand Tecumseh’s legacy. This expansion of Tecumseh’s
                        legacy is furthered, in that his body has never been discovered..
                        Many people have claimed to possess Tecumseh’s body, or that they or know
                        what happened to his body. The Sac chief, Black Hawk claims that “Tecumseh’s
                        body was taken away and buried some five miles from the battlefield”._[18]_
                        (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn18) This claim is supported by General
                        Procter’s native interpreter Clarke, who “asserted positively that Tecumseh
                        was killed, and his body was carried off by the Indians”._[19]_
                        (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn19) David Edmunds, in an article for Timeline
                        magazine, suggestes that, “Since most of the slain were buried in a mass grave near
                        the battlefield, Tecumseh probably was interred with his fallen warriors”
                        ._[20]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn20) Furthermore, Walpole Island
                        has built a memorial cairn that supposedly has Tecumseh’s bones interred in it,
                        while Sugden reports a claim that “Tecumseh’s body was presented to the
                        British [. . .] who took it to Sandwhich for burial”._[21]_
                        (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn21) The last claim, belongs to Shawnee tradition, and might
                        be the best supported claim as to the location of Tecumseh’s body. Thier
                        claim states, “No white man knows, or ever will know, where we took the body of
                        our beloved Tecumseh and buried him. Tecumseh will come again!”_[22]_
                        (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn22) As shown by the differing claims,
                        Tecumseh’s death is an enigma that probably will never be solved.
                        The final moments of Tecumseh’s life are in dispute. Nobody is quite sure
                        who killed him, what happened to his body or even where his body is located.
                        History is abound in examples of individuals who are killed in mysterious ways
                        but who are later glorified. A cursory look in the twentieth century
                        reveals examples such as John Fitzgerald Kennedy, Martin Luther King and Mahatma
                        Gandhi. Tecumseh is not unique in being glorified but because he represented a
                        minority and a dying way of life he appeals to both Natives and Americans.
                        His name and spirit lives on in myth, mysticism and in the minds of people,
                        not just on a sign.
                        All cultures need, “people who embody ideals and aspirations about whom a
                        national identity can be hung [. . .] [i]ndians need such figures too”._[23]_
                        (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn23) For America he fits the ideal
                        American mold. Throughout his life he exhibited those qualities that Americans
                        consider worthy. General Leslie Combs recalled Tecumseh saving his life at the
                        Ft. Miami Massacre and noted that he, “ [displayed] noble countenance, gallant
                        bearing [a] sonorous voice [while having] something noble and commanding in
                        all his actions”._[24]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn24) As Edmunds
                        points out these characteristics make “Tecumseh seem more ‘civilized’ and
                        therefore more acceptable”_[25]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn25) to
                        a white culture. Also, he is an American hero. Tecumseh was the underdog
                        trying to unite a people from an outside source. Americans could also relate
                        to Tecumseh as a patriot as he was advocating freedom and was willing to risk
                        death to fight for what he believed was right for the confederation. Themes
                        like those mentioned have been tangible and enduring to America since the
                        revolution.
                        Tecumseh has been exalted not only by his own tribe but by all Native
                        Americans as well. To oppressed groups whose lands are routinely lost and culture
                        systematically destroyed Tecumseh represents hope. Hope is shown in a
                        Shawnee legend that “predicted a second coming [. . .] by the flight of a star
                        across the heavens. When that day came all Indian tribes would unite”._[26]_
                        (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn26) Indeed, Tecumseh’s confederation was
                        made up of numerous Indian tribes. Tecumseh’s opposition to intertribal
                        hostilities and for promoting peace and mutual support has made Tecumseh a
                        powerful pan-Indian symbol. This symbol is enlarged through his mysticism.
                        Tecumseh was a visionary in the most literal sense. Tecumseh visited Creek
                        country to invite them to join his confederation and won many over, especially
                        after predicting the 1811 earthquake in that nation. He also, “predicted the
                        falling of stars would prove the Indians’ ability to defeat the Americans”
                        _[27]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn27) while his brother seemed to be
                        a “purveyor of mystic mumbo-jumbo.”_[28]_
                        (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn28) Especially, after the Battle of Tippecanoe (1811) when Tecumseh’s
                        bother promised medicine that would make Indians invulnerable to bullets but
                        proved to be ineffective. The visions allowed Tecumseh to evolve past his
                        brother and take control of the confederation and change it from a religious
                        movement to a political movement that appealed to all Indians no matter what
                        tribe. Tecumseh also prophesized his own death at the Battle of the Thames
                        rather then surrender to the Americans._[29]_
                        (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn29) The resurrection of Tecumseh is something that Shawnee tradition (as
                        previously stated) encourages. Thus, the duality of mysticism and myth
                        associated with Tecumseh has allowed him to enter the minds of America.
                        Tecumseh has been immortalized in popular culture and, “the aura of Tecumseh’
                        s fame has been felt on both sides of the St. Lawrence”_[30]_ (aoldb:
                        //mail/write/template.htm#_ftn30) and the Atlantic. A five act play about Tecumseh,
                        published in 1886 was regarded in it’s day as Canada’s “greatest literary
                        achievement”._[31]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn31) In America,
                        Tecumseh did not reach popularity until his death became a political issue during
                        the 1840 presidental campaign, as Richard Mentor Johnson ran for vice
                        president. A slew of “ballads, biographies, almanacs, and [. . .] novels [help]
                        put the Shawnee center stage” _[32]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn32)
                        in hearts and minds of Americans. Additionally, Tecumseh was transported
                        across the Atlantic and planted into German culture. Tecumseh literature
                        flourished during Nazi era and reinforced Hiterite ideals of “pan-ism”, uniting
                        under duress and strong central leadership. The fall of Nazism did not stop
                        Tecumseh as his story became an East German major motion picture in 1972 and, “
                        Tecumseh novels and biographies continue to leave German presses, the last in
                        1996 ”._[33]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn33) This “Tecumseh
                        Industry” has not stopped since its inception as many children biographies and
                        films have been published along with numerous novels which “testifies that
                        after nearly two hundred years Tecumseh has come to belong to all Americans”
                        _[34]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn34) , if not the world.
                        Tecumseh’s mysterious and violent death combined with the inability to
                        locate his body and surmise who killed him has given Tecumseh a universal appeal.
                        He exemplifies the European or American concept of ‘noble savage’ and many
                        of his personal qualities like gallantry, honesty, determination and
                        masculinity are easily identified with such an image._[35]_
                        (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn35) Tecumseh’s myth and mysticism has resulted in a popular
                        culture response in not only literature but film and theater as well. Tecumseh
                        sells well and the effects of the “Tecumseh industry” has given him a
                        legendary status that has been maintained far longer then Tecumseh’s confederation.
                        The red response to Tecumseh has been in terms of hope, “that it might be
                        possible in a changing and turbulent world to find permanent peace and plenty”
                        ._[36]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn36) This dream still exists
                        today as traditional Shawnee legend bolsters a second coming of Tecumseh._[37]_
                        (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn37) Perhaps, the second coming has
                        already occurred; perhaps Tecumseh was, will be and continues with everyone red or
                        white.


                        ____________________________________

                        _[1]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref1) Allan Eckert, A Sorrow in
                        Our Heart: The Life of Tecumseh. (New York: Bantam, 1992) 787.

                        _[2]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref2) Moses Dawson, Historical
                        Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                        (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 427.

                        _[3]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref3) Moses Dawson, Historical
                        Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                        (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 427.


                        _[4]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref4) Moses Dawson, Historical
                        Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                        (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 193.

                        _[5]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref5) Moses Dawson, Historical
                        Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                        (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 429.

                        _[6]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref6) Moses Dawson, Historical
                        Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                        (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 193.

                        _[7]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref7) Pioneer Scrapbook. Death of
                        Tecumseh. Bowling Green, Ohio. 1910: 60.

                        _[8]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref8) William Hutch, A Chapter
                        of the History of the War of 1812 in the Northwest. (Cincinnati: Miami
                        Printing and Publishing Company, 1872) 152.

                        _[9]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref9) John Oskison, Tecumseh and
                        his Times; The Story of a Great Indian. (1874) 218.


                        _[10]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref10) John Sugden, Tecumseh’s
                        Last Stand. (University of Oklahoma Press, 1985) 141.

                        _[11]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref11) William Hutch, A Chapter
                        of the History of the War of 1812 in the Northwest.
                        (Cincinnati: Miami Printing and Publishing Company, 1872) 113.

                        _[12]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref12) Benson Lossing,
                        Pictorial Fieldbook of the War of 1812, 1869, 2 Apr. 2004 <
                        http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~wcarr1/Lossing2/Chap26.html>.

                        _[13]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref13) Peter Clarke, Origin and
                        Traditional History of the Wyandotts and Sketches of other Indian Tribes of
                        North America. (Toronto: Hunter, Rose and Co., 1870) 114.

                        _[14]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref14) Pioneer Scrapbook. The
                        Death of Tecumseh. Bowling Green, Ohio. 1910: 60.

                        _[15]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref15) Peter Clarke, Origin and
                        Traditional History of the Wyandotts and Sketches of other Indian Tribes of
                        North America. (Toronto: Hunter, Rose and Co., 1870) 113.


                        _[16]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref16) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                        Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 377.

                        _[17]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref17) Allan Eckert, A Sorrow
                        in Our Heart: The Life of Tecumseh. (New York: Bantam Books, 1992) 792.

                        _[18]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref18) John Oskison, Tecumseh
                        and his Times; The Story of a Great Indian. (1874) 218.

                        _[19]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref19) Benson Lossing,
                        Pictorial Fieldbook of the War of 1812, 1869, 2 Apr. 2004 <
                        http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~wcarr1/Lossing2/Chap26.html>.

                        _[20]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref20) David Edmunds, “The Thin
                        Red Line: Tecumseh, the Prophet and Shawnee Resistance.” Timeline Jan. 1988:
                        17.

                        _[21]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref21) John Sugden, Tecumseh’s
                        Last Stand. (University of Oklahoma Press, 1985) 215.

                        _[22]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref22) Allan Eckert, A Sorrow in
                        Our Heart: The Life of Tecumseh. (New York: Bantam Books, 1992) 794.

                        _[23]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref23) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                        Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 390.

                        _[24]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref24) Pioneer Scrapbook.
                        Tecumseh Described. (Bowling Green, Ohio. 1910) 59.

                        _[25]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref25) David Edmunds, “The Thin
                        Red Line: Tecumseh, the Prophet and Shawnee Resistance.” Timeline Jan. 1988:
                        10.

                        _[26]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref26) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                        Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 389.

                        _[27]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref27) Mary Jane McDaniel, “
                        Tecumseh’s Visits to the Creeks,” The Alabama Review 33 (1980): 8.

                        _[28]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref28) David Edmunds, “The Thin
                        Red Line: Tecumseh, the Prophet and Shawnee Resistance.” Timeline Jan. 1988:
                        9.

                        _[29]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref29) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                        Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 379.

                        _[30]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref30) David Edmunds, “The Thin
                        Red Line: Tecumseh, the Prophet and Shawnee Resistance.” Timeline Jan. 1988:
                        12.

                        _[31]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref31) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                        Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 392.

                        _[32]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref32) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                        Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 397.

                        _[33]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref33) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                        Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 395.

                        _[34]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref34) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                        Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 400.

                        _[35]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref35) David Edmunds, Tecumseh
                        and the Quest for Indian Leadership. (Boston: Little, Brown and Company, 1984)
                        224.

                        _[36]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref36) John Oskison, Tecumseh
                        and his Times; The Story of a Great Indian. (1874) 237.

                        _[37]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref37) Allan Eckert, A Sorrow
                        in Our Heart: The Life of Tecumseh. (New York: Bantam Books, 1992) 794.




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • wolf_bna
                        I have the great honor of posting the following reply forwaded and posted with the permission of Panther Clan Mother Dark Rain Thom. For verification of her
                        Message 11 of 25 , Feb 7, 2006
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                          I have the great honor of posting the following reply forwaded and
                          posted with the permission of Panther Clan Mother Dark Rain Thom. For
                          verification of her right to speak 1812 Members may search for Dark
                          Rain Thom James Alexander Thom or Random House Canada.

                          MY Dear Cedar--

                          As usual you have found the heart of the matter and stated it very
                          well. He has now found the peace he was denied while alive, in the
                          bosom of Mother Earth - as it is intended.

                          At this time of the circle of time it matters not when nor why he
                          died. We do know that at this time he is in spirit and embraced by
                          those who orginally gave him life. Creator and Mother Earth. So it
                          shall always be. Aho

                          WHERE he was buried? When he died? By what means? Those who needed to
                          know KNEW. Those who did not need to know...wonder and throw out wild
                          suppositions. Those who were with him during the battle were well
                          experienced at tending to such events as a warriors death in battle.
                          This was certainly not their first experience in battle. Those who
                          survived knew well what to do and when and how and where. IF others
                          chose to not believe it or they chose to start or perpetuate their
                          own myths...so be it.

                          It matters not. Some say well, they need to pay tribute to him at his
                          resting place. NOT. His spirit now flies with the wind, shines with
                          the milky way, traverses the universe. He and his spirit is no longer
                          bound by PLACE. A tobacco offering, a prayer all reach him thru
                          immortal means.

                          I am comforted to know no curious, shallow thinking persons claiming
                          an entitlement to such sacred knowledge, can disturb him.

                          Thank you for speaking so well for our beloved departed warrior.
                          Love
                          Aunty Dark Rain

                          Single use by permission has been granted to:
                          Cedar Heart
                          also known as
                          r patrick nichols
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