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Re: [WarOf1812] TECUMSEH'S Bones

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  • Casey Coleman
    Hello everyone... I usually don t reply to the things written in the yahoogroup, for I find it interesting just to sit back and read what is written by
    Message 1 of 25 , Feb 1, 2006
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      Hello everyone... I usually don't reply to the things written in the yahoogroup, for I find it interesting just to sit back and read what is written by everyone else. However, being a first nations person, I feel that I should say something on the topic of Tecumseh's remains... I have heard many stories of what happened to Tecumseh after he died. Many people believe that he was buried shortly after which, as most of you know, there was no time to. The story that I am more inclined to believe would have been that his body was passed on from village to village, tribe to tribe, to finally rest where the American's could not get what little remained of him. I wouldn't think that he would pass into Mohawk hands, due to the fact that he had few followers from the band.



      Case "Masta" C.

      we will always remember you
      Jay "Masta" J.

      ---------------------------------

      What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • wolf_bna
      ... the yahoogroup, for I find it interesting just to sit back and read what is written by everyone else. However, being a first nations person, I feel that
      Message 2 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
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        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Casey Coleman <colemancase@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Hello everyone... I usually don't reply to the things written in
        the yahoogroup, for I find it interesting just to sit back and read
        what is written by everyone else. However, being a first nations
        person, I feel that I should say something on the topic of
        Tecumseh's remains...I wouldn't think that he would pass into Mohawk
        hands, due to the fact that he had few followers from the band.
        >
        >
        >
        > Case "Masta" C.
        >
        > we will always remember you
        > Jay "Masta" J.
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        >
        > What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


        Seko rontatatekena,
        Skennen ken

        Understand that I mean no disrespect in my response to your post.

        You mention that you are a "First Nations Person" and as such you
        should be aware of the burial conspiracy that I mentioned in my
        previous post (as it is common knowledge among our people).

        You also slam the Mohawk Nation's involvement in "handling Tecumseh's
        body" in regards to what you think. You base your thought on "the
        fact that he (Tecumseh) had few followers from the (Mohawk) band."

        Tecumseh did not have to recruit followers from the Six Nations
        because the Six Nations had already been allied to eachother for one
        thousand eight hundred years. As I explained in my previous post the
        Peacemaker Tekanawita (a Weyndot or Huron) had already set out to
        bring all of the Nations of North and South America together as one
        people 1,800 years before Tecumseh.

        Tecumseh and Mohawk War Chief Teyoninhokarawen were good friends.
        Approximately 50 Grand River warriors fought with Tecumseh in his
        area of opperations. After Tecumseh was killed at the Thames many of
        his followers took refuge at Grand River including Tenskwatawa (the
        prophet) his brother. Some of the Shawnee and the other western
        Nations decendants still live here at Grand River to this day.

        In order to safeguard Tecumseh's remains ALL of the British allied
        Nations in the vicinity took part in a conspiracy to keep the
        location secret forever. This was accomplished by having
        several "grave sites" provided in several communities throughout
        various locations in the region. We also have one here at Grand River.

        In closing I'd like to mention that we do not refer to ourselves as
        bands! A band provides music for patrons in a bar on week-ends. We
        are Sovereign peoples and refer to ourselves as Nations.

        Of coarse you don't have to take my word for anything that I have
        stated. Therefore, I offer to you my personal invitation to come to
        Grand River Territory to speak to the Six Nations people or to the
        people of the Shawnee Nation the next time they come to visit us.

        If you are interested please let me know and I will make all of the
        necessary arangements.

        Niawen ikhsa's,
        Okwaho Ronnatanonnha
      • CalvertMck@aol.com
        In a message dated 2/2/2006 7:56:17 AM Central Standard Time, britishnativeallies@rogers.com writes: Tecumseh did not have to recruit followers from the Six
        Message 3 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
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          In a message dated 2/2/2006 7:56:17 AM Central Standard Time,
          britishnativeallies@... writes:


          Tecumseh did not have to recruit followers from the Six Nations
          because the Six Nations had already been allied to eachother for one
          thousand eight hundred years. As I explained in my previous post the
          Peacemaker Tekanawita (a Weyndot or Huron) had already set out to
          bring all of the Nations of North and South America together as one
          people 1,800 years before Tecumseh.
          If the Nations leaders had it to do all over again, do you think the Weyndot
          would be successful in bringing all of the Nations, north and south together
          to explore unity past, present and future? Could this have changed the
          history of the discovery process?

          Tecumseh and Mohawk War Chief Teyoninhokarawen were good friends.
          Approximately 50 Grand River warriors fought with Tecumseh in his
          area of opperations. After Tecumseh was killed at the Thames many of
          his followers took refuge at Grand River including Tenskwatawa (the
          prophet) his brother. Some of the Shawnee and the other western
          Nations decendants still live here at Grand River to this day.

          If the friendship of the leaders were strong enough and the warriors for
          Grand River were still interested in the same area of operations - maybe the
          historical reports of Tecumseh were not reported correctly and Tecumseh were
          mearly wounded and not killed? Maybe the death was of slow nature, and due to
          complications of his wounds - this would have provided Tecumseh to bestow what
          made him sucessful over his nation to his best warriors to enable them to
          continue his legacy - but a price worth prolonging the agony of a slow and
          painful death due to complication and infection of his wounds. And the shot that
          he took in the rear end which was not accurately documented in history as his
          "pain in the ass" and thus the historical beginnings of such sematics.
          Strictly opinion of course and not a historical representation, but a a dillusion
          of some of his followers.

          In order to safeguard Tecumseh's remains ALL of the British allied
          Nations in the vicinity took part in a conspiracy to keep the
          location secret forever. This was accomplished by having
          several "grave sites" provided in several communities throughout
          various locations in the region. We also have one here at Grand River.

          Grand Ri ver and the many other "grave sites" should be honored to host the
          remains of Tecumseh's - I am sure some have altered their plans to make the
          grave site more accomodating for the "resting place", however Tecumseh had not
          requested or conveyed this to the newer warriors in the nation. However, if
          Tecumseh were to request this in todays nations the request would be honored
          to accomodate the needs or plans modified to insure his worthy warrior site
          needs were met.

          Strictly opinions and postulations of a non-posting lurker.






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • yawors1@uwindsor.ca
          I must confess I was stunned to read the following: maybe the historical reports of Tecumseh were not reported correctly and Tecumseh were mearly wounded and
          Message 4 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
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            I must confess I was stunned to read the following:

            "maybe the historical reports of Tecumseh were not reported correctly and
            Tecumseh were
            mearly wounded and not killed? Maybe the death was of slow nature, and
            due to
            complications of his wounds - this would have provided Tecumseh to bestow
            what
            made him sucessful over his nation to his best warriors to enable them to

            continue his legacy - but a price worth prolonging the agony of a slow
            and
            painful death due to complication and infection of his wounds. And the
            shot that
            he took in the rear end which was not accurately documented in history as
            his
            "pain in the ass" and thus the historical beginnings of such sematics.
            Strictly opinion of course and not a historical representation, but a a
            dillusion
            of some of his followers."

            I have never seen any of this suggested in any source, primary or
            secondary, that I have come across so far. Are these musings just
            supposition, based on wishful thinking? If there are serious sources for
            these statements, I'm sure we'd all like to hear about them.

            Harrison was quite sure Tecumseh had been killed. He knew Tecumseh by
            sight. So how could he have been so sure, if he didn't see the body? I
            haven't read Harrison's papers so I don't know the particulars of what he
            had to say on this - can anybody enlighten us?

            There are primary sources that involve officers of the 41st Regiment who
            were captured at Moraviantown, who were shown a number of bodies after the
            battle and asked to verify the identities of any they knew. All these
            officers knew Tecumseh well by sight.

            Not to be unduly gruesome, but they state they saw Tecumseh's body, and it
            had been most foully mutilated, presumably by "souvenir hunters". It is
            difficult in the year 2006 to get yourself in the frame of mind where you
            can understand the motivation for somebody wanting a razor strop or
            tobacco pouch made out of human skin. But there you go - it happened in
            frontier warfare.

            If the officers' first-hand accounts are true, and there is no apparent
            reason why they would be lying, then it would seem very unlikely that
            Tecumseh's remains could be recovered until the Americans withrew towards
            Detroit. This withdrawal did happen fairly quickly, Harrison withdrew
            towards Detroit the day after the battle. In the interim, were these
            bodies buried on the field? I believe the British casualties were buried,
            but were the Native Warriors who had been killed left out to rot? We must
            recognize the racism that pervaded "civilized" attitudes to "savages" at
            the time of the War of 1812 - and long after, unfortunately.

            I haven't run across anything yet that details what happened to these
            bodies after the British officers saw them, then were led off towards
            eventual captivity in Ohio and Kentucky. So it's not impossible that a
            body could have been recovered a day or two after the battle, whether by
            digging up all the new graves until the body was found, or finding it
            still lying on the field. Either way, the body must have been in rough
            shape. The point here is that Tecumseh's body - dead or alive - was
            apparently not carried back to "safety" (from disrespectful acts of
            American frontiersmen, presumably) by Native Warriors as they retreated
            from the field. At best, it was recovered a day or two later, after
            having been foully mutilated.

            Hero myths are actually a very interesting field of study. It is
            instructive to compare some recurring stories about great figures. One
            story is the idea that the hero doesn't die, but is off somewhere sleeping
            until needed again (King Arthur, Sir Francis Drake, etc.).
            The psychology behind all such stories seems clearer if you stand back and
            look at them as a group. Put simply, a profound sense of loss leads to a
            certain amount of wishful thinking.

            Jim Yaworsky
            41st

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • wolf_bna
            As I am not Shawnee I cannot speak on their behalf. I can however relay what I have been told by them as well as my Nation s own oral history. I have never
            Message 5 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
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              As I am not Shawnee I cannot speak on their behalf. I can however
              relay what I have been told by them as well as my Nation's own oral
              history.

              I have never heard any such story that claimed Tecumseh was carried
              from the field alive only to die at some other time and location. It
              is not within our oral history nor what I've heard from the Shawnee,
              the Lenape, or the Chippawas of the Themes, Walpole Island, Stoney
              and Kettle Points etc.

              The oral history has always been clear that he was killed in the
              battle and his body was recovered. The military tradition (especially
              among the U.S. Army's Rangers) of recovering the bodies of their
              fellow soldiers from the field can trace it's roots to this Native
              trait. If the bodies were removed by the American or British soldiers
              and even buried by them, they still would have been recovered by the
              Natives. I am not at liberty to detail the ceremony we call Ohkiweh
              or "The Feast Of The Dead" but, it involves the remains of our
              ancestors. It is just as important as the Condolence at death.

              At the Battle of Oriskany during the American Revolutionary War, the
              bodies of ALL of the Seneca and Mohawk Warriors were recovered and
              given the proper ceremonies to send them to the Spirit World. An
              extremely important ritual among Native people. The bodies of the
              Tryon County Militia still lay where they fell on the battle field to
              this day.

              The "burial site conspiracy" was devised by the Nations to detour
              anyone from finding and desecrating his resting place.

              For example Joseph Brant's remains are not buried at the Mohawk
              Chapel. His tomb was desecrated at the turn of the 20th century and
              his remains were taken and are lost forever. This is what the people
              were trying to prevent back then.
            • lalozon
              From: I must confess I was stunned to read the following: maybe the historical reports of .. Tecumseh were mearly wounded and not
              Message 6 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
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                From: <yawors1@...>

                " I must confess I was stunned to read the following: "maybe the historical
                reports of .. Tecumseh were mearly wounded and not killed? ... Harrison was
                quite sure Tecumseh had been killed. He knew Tecumseh by
                sight ...they state they saw Tecumseh's body, and it had been most foully
                mutilated, presumably by "souvenir hunters".
                .................

                From: "wolf_bna" <britishnativeallies@...>

                I have never heard any such story that claimed Tecumseh was carried
                from the field alive only to die at some other time and location.






                I agree with Mr. Yaworsky and Mr. Thomas


                Members of Ken Hall's 'Kentucky Light Dragoons' who have visited the
                Kentucky museums and have photos of a captured 41st Regiment drum, a lantern
                shade supposedly made from a piece of Tecumseh's back skin, etc., relics
                from the Battle of the Thames brought back to Kentucky by members of the
                Kentucky Forces who fought at the Battle of the Thames.

                They have also researched documents that reports the 'Kentucky Light
                Dragoons' and USA Forces victory at the Battle of the Thames and that
                Tecumseh was killed and identified as the Shawnee known as 'Tecumthe'.



                James Alexander Thom states that his book "PANTHER IN THE SKY"
                ISBN:0-345-30596-5 which chronicles the life of Tecumseh, was researched
                from original documents and Shawnee oral history which state Tecumseh was
                killed during the Battle of the Thames.

                As does John Sugden author of "TECUMSEH'S LAST STAND" ISBN: 0-8061-1944-6



                Altho reports verify for sure that Elvis is alive and works at a gas station
                in Hamtramik Michigan ....



                Yrs.,
                L2
              • Peter Monahan
                Mr Yaworski My reaction to the post you quote was the same as yours: shock. It was less than coherent and perhaps, to be charitable, an attempt to be
                Message 7 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
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                  Mr Yaworski

                  My reaction to the post you quote was the same as yours: shock. It was less than coherent and perhaps, to be charitable, an attempt to be humourous. as really "out there" speculation, I would suggest that it is an unprofitable avenue in which to invest much further discussion.

                  Peter Monahan, Sgt Major, CFNA
                  ============================================================


                  " I must confess I was stunned to read the following: "maybe the historical reports of .. Tecumseh were mearly wounded and not killed? ...

                  Harrison was quite sure Tecumseh had been killed. He knew Tecumseh by
                  sight ...they state they saw Tecumseh's body, and it had been most foully mutilated, presumably by "souvenir hunters".
                  .................

                  From: "wolf_bna" <britishnativeallies@...>

                  I have never heard any such story that claimed Tecumseh was carried
                  from the field alive only to die at some other time and location.






                  I agree with Mr. Yaworsky and Mr. Thomas


                  Members of Ken Hall's 'Kentucky Light Dragoons' who have visited the
                  Kentucky museums and have photos of a captured 41st Regiment drum, a lantern
                  shade supposedly made from a piece of Tecumseh's back skin, etc., relics
                  from the Battle of the Thames brought back to Kentucky by members of the
                  Kentucky Forces who fought at the Battle of the Thames.

                  They have also researched documents that reports the 'Kentucky Light
                  Dragoons' and USA Forces victory at the Battle of the Thames and that
                  Tecumseh was killed and identified as the Shawnee known as 'Tecumthe'.



                  James Alexander Thom states that his book "PANTHER IN THE SKY"
                  ISBN:0-345-30596-5 which chronicles the life of Tecumseh, was researched
                  from original documents and Shawnee oral history which state Tecumseh was
                  killed during the Battle of the Thames.

                  As does John Sugden author of "TECUMSEH'S LAST STAND" ISBN: 0-8061-1944-6



                  Altho reports verify for sure that Elvis is alive and works at a gas station
                  in Hamtramik Michigan ....



                  Yrs.,
                  L2





                  The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                  Unit Contact information for North America:
                  ---------------------------------
                  Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                  http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                  American Forces Unit Listing
                  http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                  Yahoo! Groups Links






                  ============================================================
                • Scott McDonald
                  This web page deals with several first hand accounts of Tecumseh s death. http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Cove/8286/tdeath.html enjoy Scott McD.
                  Message 8 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
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                    This web page deals with several "first hand" accounts of Tecumseh's death.
                    http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Cove/8286/tdeath.html
                    enjoy

                    Scott McD.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Tom Fournier
                    From one of Wolf s postings: That can be attributed to British Alligence and a Mohawk War Chief named Teyoninhokarawen! I ll bet nobody has ever heard of him
                    Message 9 of 25 , Feb 4, 2006
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                      From one of Wolf's postings:

                      "That can be attributed to British Alligence and a Mohawk War Chief
                      named Teyoninhokarawen! I'll bet nobody has ever heard of him (trick
                      question)?"

                      Oh oh a trick question ...I was going to try Major John Norton ...

                      On another note, Wolf thank you for sharing your oral traditions and
                      your thoughts. To me they are a generous contribution, impactful and
                      the cause for reflection. It is impossible to picture the potential
                      outcomes of the conflict without considering your forefathers' many
                      significant contributions.

                      Your ally and your servant,

                      Tom Fournier
                      41st Regiment of Foot
                    • wolf_bna
                      ... and ... and ... potential ... Mr. Fournier...and all Sir, You are most welcome! Congratulations on the trick question! Teyoninhokarawen is indeed Major
                      Message 10 of 25 , Feb 4, 2006
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                        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Fournier"
                        <tom4141fournier@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > From one of Wolf's postings:
                        >
                        > "That can be attributed to British Alligence and a Mohawk War Chief
                        > named Teyoninhokarawen! I'll bet nobody has ever heard of him (trick
                        > question)?"
                        >
                        > Oh oh a trick question ...I was going to try Major John Norton ...
                        >
                        > On another note, Wolf thank you for sharing your oral traditions
                        and
                        > your thoughts. To me they are a generous contribution, impactful
                        and
                        > the cause for reflection. It is impossible to picture the
                        potential
                        > outcomes of the conflict without considering your forefathers' many
                        > significant contributions.
                        >
                        > Your ally and your servant,
                        >
                        > Tom Fournier
                        > 41st Regiment of Foot
                        >

                        Mr. Fournier...and all

                        Sir,

                        You are most welcome! Congratulations on the trick question!
                        Teyoninhokarawen is indeed Major John Norton. However, the average
                        Canadian doesn't know who he was.

                        It is our earnest hope that we do not offend anyone but rather
                        explain our history as it pertains to us. The difficult part of re-
                        enacting for us is that we are charged with maintaining and telling
                        our Nations' history as it has been passed down from those we speak
                        about. We still have a Nation and a Clan to anwser to should our
                        actions become dishonorable.

                        We have the precarious responsibility to speak on behalf of our
                        ancestors and ultimately our people. In doing so we often find
                        ourselves in a battle of our history versus someone else's version.
                        At times it can become extremely frustrating. As you witnessed at the
                        41st Lecture I expressed the notion that most of the "written"
                        historical accounts were not lies so much as they were "cultural
                        misunderstandings."

                        As you are aware you (and anyone else) are always welcome at our camp
                        to discuss our history and culture.

                        In Peace and Friendship,

                        Capt. Wolf Thomas BNA
                      • Stalin15@aol.com
                        This is an essay I wrote about on the topic of Tecumseh s body: Tecumseh: From Confusion to Legacy” The War of 1812 is often considered a forgotten war in
                        Message 11 of 25 , Feb 7, 2006
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                          This is an essay I wrote about on the topic of Tecumseh's body:


                          Tecumseh: From Confusion to Legacy”
                          The War of 1812 is often considered a forgotten war in the minds of most
                          Americans. From the beginning, the war went badly for the Americans, and
                          blunders were abound on the fighting fronts. The results of the Treaty of Ghent,
                          which ended the war, maintained the “status quos,” meaning each side will
                          revert themselves to a pre-war position. Despite the apparent tie, the war
                          created many folk heroes and events that live on to this day. Andrew Jackson won
                          a huge victory at the Battle of New Orleans, which was later immortalized in
                          a song. The president’s house was burned by the British, and with a new coat
                          of paint, became the White House. Lastly, Tecumseh, the leader of an
                          Indian confederation, was killed at the Battle of the Thames (1814). While, the
                          other events and heroes have a clear-cut victor and story, the story of
                          Tecumseh is unique. The tale of his death at the hands of the Americans has been
                          conflicting and shrouded in mystery. The result of his mysterious demise
                          has turned Tecumseh into a malleable figure and propelled him from confusion to
                          legacy.
                          The death of Tecumseh has often been a controversial issue and some of the
                          sources have become politically tainted, as his death became a political warm
                          spot during the 1840 presidential campaign. However, “[t]here exists no less
                          than forty-five (perhaps considerable more!) accounts”_[1]_
                          (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn1) of his death. These differing accounts are the fuels
                          that enhance Tecumseh’s mysterious death, as the competing players (British,
                          Americans, Indians) all have differing accounts of what happened to his
                          body. This paper will look at several claims of these three nations in order to
                          examine the confusion and creditability in thier claims.
                          In order to examine the claims, some background about the Battle of the
                          Thames needs to be considered. William Henry Harrison was commanding the
                          Americans, while the British were under command of General Procter and the Indians,
                          who were allied with the British, were under the control of Tecumseh. A
                          small swamp separated the forces. The Americans had around 3000 men arranged
                          such that they could swoop in, destroy the British lines, and descend upon the
                          Indians_[2]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn2) (see appendix A). Col.
                          Richard Mentor Johnson, leader of the Kentucky mounted rifles, was directed
                          “to take [the] ground to the left and forming upon that flank to endeavor to
                          turn the right of the Indians”._[3]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn3)
                          There are differing accounts of how many troops the British and Indians
                          had. Some put it as low as 1200_[4]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn4)
                          or as high as 2500;_[5]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn5) either way
                          the British and Indians were considerably outnumbered.
                          The battle itself lasted less then thirty minutes. Colonel Johnson, who was
                          on the left, charged to the right of the British line along with other
                          mounted men. This opened the door for additional infantry to pour through. The
                          British regulars “dispirited by long continued exposure and privation made but
                          a feeble resistance”_[6]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn6) and lasted
                          only a few minutes before surrendering. With the British left broken, and
                          Proctor fleeing, the Americans dismounted and converged upon the Indians.
                          Colonel Johnson was wounded “in a very painful part-his knuckles [and] in his
                          body”_[7]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn7) whlie leading this charge,
                          but was still able to aim and kill a tall, athletic and black-eyed warrior
                          with a dark complexion._[8]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn8)
                          Additional American troops broke through the swamp on the left and formed upon the
                          Indian rear. The fighting between the Kentuckians and Indians was short,
                          close-quarters and destructive. The natives lasted only a short while and in the “
                          usual Indian way Tecumseh’s warriors scattered and faded back through the
                          swamp”_[9]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn9) leaving only thirty-three
                          dead behind on the ground. It is among these thirty-three dead that Tecumseh’s
                          legacy starts.
                          The first claim by the Americans is that Colonel Richard Mentor Johnson
                          killed Tecumseh. However, as John Sugden, a professor at Hereward College in
                          England, points out, “[the] accounts from the Johnston camp fail to establish
                          that Tecumseh was killed by the Colonel,”_[10]_
                          (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn10) as many of the accounts are contradictory and have been used to
                          further his political career. Further evidence is gathered from his
                          appearance. Tecumseh was said to have a “face oval rather then angular [. . .] his
                          eyes clear, transparent hazel [. . .] and his complexion more of a light brown
                          or tan”_[11]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn11) and not that of the
                          black-eyed warrior that Johnson claimed to have killed. Additionally, the
                          wounds of Tecumseh needs to be called into quiestion. Benson Lossing, who wrote
                          the first comprehensive story of the War of 1812, recites Johnson’s claim to
                          have killed Tecumseh outright with a pistol shot through the head._[12]_
                          (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn12) However, William Caldwell remembers
                          overtaking and passing Tecumseh after the fight and noticed that a rifle bullet
                          penetrated his breast through his hunting coat._[13]_
                          (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn13) This contradictory evidence suggests that the traditional
                          claim of Johnson killing Tecumseh is at least problematic if not unfounded.
                          Another traditional claim that has been purported is that Tecumseh was
                          disfigured and skinned by the Americans. General George Sanderson, who was a
                          captain in the American army and who knew Tecumseh, “saw the Kentucky troops in
                          the very act of cutting the skin from the body of the chief”._[14]_
                          (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn14) This cannot be taken too seriously, as other
                          evidence suggests that “[a] fallen Potawatamie brave was probably taken for
                          Tecumseh [. . .] and mutilated.”_[15]_
                          (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn15) Additional evidence, coming from Tecumseh’s Indian friend Shabeni
                          (Roundhead), in Sugden’s book, reinforces the claim that Tecumseh was, “by the side
                          of [. . .] another Indian whose skin has been taken off [and his] body has
                          not been touched”._[16]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn16) General
                          Harrison, as reported by Allan Eckert, who wrote a biography of Tecumseh, viewed
                          the mutilated body and thought, “it much too small”._[17]_
                          (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn17) This just adds to the confusion and contradictory
                          evidence serves to expand Tecumseh’s legacy. This expansion of Tecumseh’s
                          legacy is furthered, in that his body has never been discovered..
                          Many people have claimed to possess Tecumseh’s body, or that they or know
                          what happened to his body. The Sac chief, Black Hawk claims that “Tecumseh’s
                          body was taken away and buried some five miles from the battlefield”._[18]_
                          (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn18) This claim is supported by General
                          Procter’s native interpreter Clarke, who “asserted positively that Tecumseh
                          was killed, and his body was carried off by the Indians”._[19]_
                          (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn19) David Edmunds, in an article for Timeline
                          magazine, suggestes that, “Since most of the slain were buried in a mass grave near
                          the battlefield, Tecumseh probably was interred with his fallen warriors”
                          ._[20]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn20) Furthermore, Walpole Island
                          has built a memorial cairn that supposedly has Tecumseh’s bones interred in it,
                          while Sugden reports a claim that “Tecumseh’s body was presented to the
                          British [. . .] who took it to Sandwhich for burial”._[21]_
                          (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn21) The last claim, belongs to Shawnee tradition, and might
                          be the best supported claim as to the location of Tecumseh’s body. Thier
                          claim states, “No white man knows, or ever will know, where we took the body of
                          our beloved Tecumseh and buried him. Tecumseh will come again!”_[22]_
                          (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn22) As shown by the differing claims,
                          Tecumseh’s death is an enigma that probably will never be solved.
                          The final moments of Tecumseh’s life are in dispute. Nobody is quite sure
                          who killed him, what happened to his body or even where his body is located.
                          History is abound in examples of individuals who are killed in mysterious ways
                          but who are later glorified. A cursory look in the twentieth century
                          reveals examples such as John Fitzgerald Kennedy, Martin Luther King and Mahatma
                          Gandhi. Tecumseh is not unique in being glorified but because he represented a
                          minority and a dying way of life he appeals to both Natives and Americans.
                          His name and spirit lives on in myth, mysticism and in the minds of people,
                          not just on a sign.
                          All cultures need, “people who embody ideals and aspirations about whom a
                          national identity can be hung [. . .] [i]ndians need such figures too”._[23]_
                          (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn23) For America he fits the ideal
                          American mold. Throughout his life he exhibited those qualities that Americans
                          consider worthy. General Leslie Combs recalled Tecumseh saving his life at the
                          Ft. Miami Massacre and noted that he, “ [displayed] noble countenance, gallant
                          bearing [a] sonorous voice [while having] something noble and commanding in
                          all his actions”._[24]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn24) As Edmunds
                          points out these characteristics make “Tecumseh seem more ‘civilized’ and
                          therefore more acceptable”_[25]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn25) to
                          a white culture. Also, he is an American hero. Tecumseh was the underdog
                          trying to unite a people from an outside source. Americans could also relate
                          to Tecumseh as a patriot as he was advocating freedom and was willing to risk
                          death to fight for what he believed was right for the confederation. Themes
                          like those mentioned have been tangible and enduring to America since the
                          revolution.
                          Tecumseh has been exalted not only by his own tribe but by all Native
                          Americans as well. To oppressed groups whose lands are routinely lost and culture
                          systematically destroyed Tecumseh represents hope. Hope is shown in a
                          Shawnee legend that “predicted a second coming [. . .] by the flight of a star
                          across the heavens. When that day came all Indian tribes would unite”._[26]_
                          (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn26) Indeed, Tecumseh’s confederation was
                          made up of numerous Indian tribes. Tecumseh’s opposition to intertribal
                          hostilities and for promoting peace and mutual support has made Tecumseh a
                          powerful pan-Indian symbol. This symbol is enlarged through his mysticism.
                          Tecumseh was a visionary in the most literal sense. Tecumseh visited Creek
                          country to invite them to join his confederation and won many over, especially
                          after predicting the 1811 earthquake in that nation. He also, “predicted the
                          falling of stars would prove the Indians’ ability to defeat the Americans”
                          _[27]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn27) while his brother seemed to be
                          a “purveyor of mystic mumbo-jumbo.”_[28]_
                          (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn28) Especially, after the Battle of Tippecanoe (1811) when Tecumseh’s
                          bother promised medicine that would make Indians invulnerable to bullets but
                          proved to be ineffective. The visions allowed Tecumseh to evolve past his
                          brother and take control of the confederation and change it from a religious
                          movement to a political movement that appealed to all Indians no matter what
                          tribe. Tecumseh also prophesized his own death at the Battle of the Thames
                          rather then surrender to the Americans._[29]_
                          (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn29) The resurrection of Tecumseh is something that Shawnee tradition (as
                          previously stated) encourages. Thus, the duality of mysticism and myth
                          associated with Tecumseh has allowed him to enter the minds of America.
                          Tecumseh has been immortalized in popular culture and, “the aura of Tecumseh’
                          s fame has been felt on both sides of the St. Lawrence”_[30]_ (aoldb:
                          //mail/write/template.htm#_ftn30) and the Atlantic. A five act play about Tecumseh,
                          published in 1886 was regarded in it’s day as Canada’s “greatest literary
                          achievement”._[31]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn31) In America,
                          Tecumseh did not reach popularity until his death became a political issue during
                          the 1840 presidental campaign, as Richard Mentor Johnson ran for vice
                          president. A slew of “ballads, biographies, almanacs, and [. . .] novels [help]
                          put the Shawnee center stage” _[32]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn32)
                          in hearts and minds of Americans. Additionally, Tecumseh was transported
                          across the Atlantic and planted into German culture. Tecumseh literature
                          flourished during Nazi era and reinforced Hiterite ideals of “pan-ism”, uniting
                          under duress and strong central leadership. The fall of Nazism did not stop
                          Tecumseh as his story became an East German major motion picture in 1972 and, “
                          Tecumseh novels and biographies continue to leave German presses, the last in
                          1996 ”._[33]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn33) This “Tecumseh
                          Industry” has not stopped since its inception as many children biographies and
                          films have been published along with numerous novels which “testifies that
                          after nearly two hundred years Tecumseh has come to belong to all Americans”
                          _[34]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn34) , if not the world.
                          Tecumseh’s mysterious and violent death combined with the inability to
                          locate his body and surmise who killed him has given Tecumseh a universal appeal.
                          He exemplifies the European or American concept of ‘noble savage’ and many
                          of his personal qualities like gallantry, honesty, determination and
                          masculinity are easily identified with such an image._[35]_
                          (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn35) Tecumseh’s myth and mysticism has resulted in a popular
                          culture response in not only literature but film and theater as well. Tecumseh
                          sells well and the effects of the “Tecumseh industry” has given him a
                          legendary status that has been maintained far longer then Tecumseh’s confederation.
                          The red response to Tecumseh has been in terms of hope, “that it might be
                          possible in a changing and turbulent world to find permanent peace and plenty”
                          ._[36]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn36) This dream still exists
                          today as traditional Shawnee legend bolsters a second coming of Tecumseh._[37]_
                          (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn37) Perhaps, the second coming has
                          already occurred; perhaps Tecumseh was, will be and continues with everyone red or
                          white.


                          ____________________________________

                          _[1]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref1) Allan Eckert, A Sorrow in
                          Our Heart: The Life of Tecumseh. (New York: Bantam, 1992) 787.

                          _[2]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref2) Moses Dawson, Historical
                          Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                          (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 427.

                          _[3]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref3) Moses Dawson, Historical
                          Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                          (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 427.


                          _[4]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref4) Moses Dawson, Historical
                          Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                          (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 193.

                          _[5]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref5) Moses Dawson, Historical
                          Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                          (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 429.

                          _[6]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref6) Moses Dawson, Historical
                          Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                          (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 193.

                          _[7]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref7) Pioneer Scrapbook. Death of
                          Tecumseh. Bowling Green, Ohio. 1910: 60.

                          _[8]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref8) William Hutch, A Chapter
                          of the History of the War of 1812 in the Northwest. (Cincinnati: Miami
                          Printing and Publishing Company, 1872) 152.

                          _[9]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref9) John Oskison, Tecumseh and
                          his Times; The Story of a Great Indian. (1874) 218.


                          _[10]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref10) John Sugden, Tecumseh’s
                          Last Stand. (University of Oklahoma Press, 1985) 141.

                          _[11]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref11) William Hutch, A Chapter
                          of the History of the War of 1812 in the Northwest.
                          (Cincinnati: Miami Printing and Publishing Company, 1872) 113.

                          _[12]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref12) Benson Lossing,
                          Pictorial Fieldbook of the War of 1812, 1869, 2 Apr. 2004 <
                          http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~wcarr1/Lossing2/Chap26.html>.

                          _[13]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref13) Peter Clarke, Origin and
                          Traditional History of the Wyandotts and Sketches of other Indian Tribes of
                          North America. (Toronto: Hunter, Rose and Co., 1870) 114.

                          _[14]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref14) Pioneer Scrapbook. The
                          Death of Tecumseh. Bowling Green, Ohio. 1910: 60.

                          _[15]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref15) Peter Clarke, Origin and
                          Traditional History of the Wyandotts and Sketches of other Indian Tribes of
                          North America. (Toronto: Hunter, Rose and Co., 1870) 113.


                          _[16]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref16) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                          Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 377.

                          _[17]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref17) Allan Eckert, A Sorrow
                          in Our Heart: The Life of Tecumseh. (New York: Bantam Books, 1992) 792.

                          _[18]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref18) John Oskison, Tecumseh
                          and his Times; The Story of a Great Indian. (1874) 218.

                          _[19]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref19) Benson Lossing,
                          Pictorial Fieldbook of the War of 1812, 1869, 2 Apr. 2004 <
                          http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~wcarr1/Lossing2/Chap26.html>.

                          _[20]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref20) David Edmunds, “The Thin
                          Red Line: Tecumseh, the Prophet and Shawnee Resistance.” Timeline Jan. 1988:
                          17.

                          _[21]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref21) John Sugden, Tecumseh’s
                          Last Stand. (University of Oklahoma Press, 1985) 215.

                          _[22]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref22) Allan Eckert, A Sorrow in
                          Our Heart: The Life of Tecumseh. (New York: Bantam Books, 1992) 794.

                          _[23]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref23) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                          Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 390.

                          _[24]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref24) Pioneer Scrapbook.
                          Tecumseh Described. (Bowling Green, Ohio. 1910) 59.

                          _[25]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref25) David Edmunds, “The Thin
                          Red Line: Tecumseh, the Prophet and Shawnee Resistance.” Timeline Jan. 1988:
                          10.

                          _[26]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref26) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                          Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 389.

                          _[27]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref27) Mary Jane McDaniel, “
                          Tecumseh’s Visits to the Creeks,” The Alabama Review 33 (1980): 8.

                          _[28]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref28) David Edmunds, “The Thin
                          Red Line: Tecumseh, the Prophet and Shawnee Resistance.” Timeline Jan. 1988:
                          9.

                          _[29]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref29) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                          Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 379.

                          _[30]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref30) David Edmunds, “The Thin
                          Red Line: Tecumseh, the Prophet and Shawnee Resistance.” Timeline Jan. 1988:
                          12.

                          _[31]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref31) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                          Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 392.

                          _[32]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref32) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                          Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 397.

                          _[33]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref33) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                          Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 395.

                          _[34]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref34) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                          Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 400.

                          _[35]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref35) David Edmunds, Tecumseh
                          and the Quest for Indian Leadership. (Boston: Little, Brown and Company, 1984)
                          224.

                          _[36]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref36) John Oskison, Tecumseh
                          and his Times; The Story of a Great Indian. (1874) 237.

                          _[37]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref37) Allan Eckert, A Sorrow
                          in Our Heart: The Life of Tecumseh. (New York: Bantam Books, 1992) 794.




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • wolf_bna
                          I have the great honor of posting the following reply forwaded and posted with the permission of Panther Clan Mother Dark Rain Thom. For verification of her
                          Message 12 of 25 , Feb 7, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I have the great honor of posting the following reply forwaded and
                            posted with the permission of Panther Clan Mother Dark Rain Thom. For
                            verification of her right to speak 1812 Members may search for Dark
                            Rain Thom James Alexander Thom or Random House Canada.

                            MY Dear Cedar--

                            As usual you have found the heart of the matter and stated it very
                            well. He has now found the peace he was denied while alive, in the
                            bosom of Mother Earth - as it is intended.

                            At this time of the circle of time it matters not when nor why he
                            died. We do know that at this time he is in spirit and embraced by
                            those who orginally gave him life. Creator and Mother Earth. So it
                            shall always be. Aho

                            WHERE he was buried? When he died? By what means? Those who needed to
                            know KNEW. Those who did not need to know...wonder and throw out wild
                            suppositions. Those who were with him during the battle were well
                            experienced at tending to such events as a warriors death in battle.
                            This was certainly not their first experience in battle. Those who
                            survived knew well what to do and when and how and where. IF others
                            chose to not believe it or they chose to start or perpetuate their
                            own myths...so be it.

                            It matters not. Some say well, they need to pay tribute to him at his
                            resting place. NOT. His spirit now flies with the wind, shines with
                            the milky way, traverses the universe. He and his spirit is no longer
                            bound by PLACE. A tobacco offering, a prayer all reach him thru
                            immortal means.

                            I am comforted to know no curious, shallow thinking persons claiming
                            an entitlement to such sacred knowledge, can disturb him.

                            Thank you for speaking so well for our beloved departed warrior.
                            Love
                            Aunty Dark Rain

                            Single use by permission has been granted to:
                            Cedar Heart
                            also known as
                            r patrick nichols
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