Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

TECUMSEH'S Bones

Expand Messages
  • lalozon
    From: Gordon Deans Larry, Peter; Gord as noted in my original email NOTE: Peter Twist is not a subscriber of this WarOf1812 Yahoo
    Message 1 of 25 , Feb 1, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>

      Larry, Peter;






      Gord

      as noted in my original email

      NOTE: Peter Twist is not a subscriber of this WarOf1812 Yahoo Group




      as far as

      " if Mark Dickerson has any great relics to show for his time on the
      battlefield? "

      and

      "... do you know which lot that his father's farm was on?


      You would have to contact Mark directly regarding this information



      Yrs.,
      L2
    • Casey Coleman
      Hello everyone... I usually don t reply to the things written in the yahoogroup, for I find it interesting just to sit back and read what is written by
      Message 2 of 25 , Feb 1, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello everyone... I usually don't reply to the things written in the yahoogroup, for I find it interesting just to sit back and read what is written by everyone else. However, being a first nations person, I feel that I should say something on the topic of Tecumseh's remains... I have heard many stories of what happened to Tecumseh after he died. Many people believe that he was buried shortly after which, as most of you know, there was no time to. The story that I am more inclined to believe would have been that his body was passed on from village to village, tribe to tribe, to finally rest where the American's could not get what little remained of him. I wouldn't think that he would pass into Mohawk hands, due to the fact that he had few followers from the band.



        Case "Masta" C.

        we will always remember you
        Jay "Masta" J.

        ---------------------------------

        What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • wolf_bna
        ... the yahoogroup, for I find it interesting just to sit back and read what is written by everyone else. However, being a first nations person, I feel that
        Message 3 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Casey Coleman <colemancase@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Hello everyone... I usually don't reply to the things written in
          the yahoogroup, for I find it interesting just to sit back and read
          what is written by everyone else. However, being a first nations
          person, I feel that I should say something on the topic of
          Tecumseh's remains...I wouldn't think that he would pass into Mohawk
          hands, due to the fact that he had few followers from the band.
          >
          >
          >
          > Case "Masta" C.
          >
          > we will always remember you
          > Jay "Masta" J.
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          >
          > What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


          Seko rontatatekena,
          Skennen ken

          Understand that I mean no disrespect in my response to your post.

          You mention that you are a "First Nations Person" and as such you
          should be aware of the burial conspiracy that I mentioned in my
          previous post (as it is common knowledge among our people).

          You also slam the Mohawk Nation's involvement in "handling Tecumseh's
          body" in regards to what you think. You base your thought on "the
          fact that he (Tecumseh) had few followers from the (Mohawk) band."

          Tecumseh did not have to recruit followers from the Six Nations
          because the Six Nations had already been allied to eachother for one
          thousand eight hundred years. As I explained in my previous post the
          Peacemaker Tekanawita (a Weyndot or Huron) had already set out to
          bring all of the Nations of North and South America together as one
          people 1,800 years before Tecumseh.

          Tecumseh and Mohawk War Chief Teyoninhokarawen were good friends.
          Approximately 50 Grand River warriors fought with Tecumseh in his
          area of opperations. After Tecumseh was killed at the Thames many of
          his followers took refuge at Grand River including Tenskwatawa (the
          prophet) his brother. Some of the Shawnee and the other western
          Nations decendants still live here at Grand River to this day.

          In order to safeguard Tecumseh's remains ALL of the British allied
          Nations in the vicinity took part in a conspiracy to keep the
          location secret forever. This was accomplished by having
          several "grave sites" provided in several communities throughout
          various locations in the region. We also have one here at Grand River.

          In closing I'd like to mention that we do not refer to ourselves as
          bands! A band provides music for patrons in a bar on week-ends. We
          are Sovereign peoples and refer to ourselves as Nations.

          Of coarse you don't have to take my word for anything that I have
          stated. Therefore, I offer to you my personal invitation to come to
          Grand River Territory to speak to the Six Nations people or to the
          people of the Shawnee Nation the next time they come to visit us.

          If you are interested please let me know and I will make all of the
          necessary arangements.

          Niawen ikhsa's,
          Okwaho Ronnatanonnha
        • CalvertMck@aol.com
          In a message dated 2/2/2006 7:56:17 AM Central Standard Time, britishnativeallies@rogers.com writes: Tecumseh did not have to recruit followers from the Six
          Message 4 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            In a message dated 2/2/2006 7:56:17 AM Central Standard Time,
            britishnativeallies@... writes:


            Tecumseh did not have to recruit followers from the Six Nations
            because the Six Nations had already been allied to eachother for one
            thousand eight hundred years. As I explained in my previous post the
            Peacemaker Tekanawita (a Weyndot or Huron) had already set out to
            bring all of the Nations of North and South America together as one
            people 1,800 years before Tecumseh.
            If the Nations leaders had it to do all over again, do you think the Weyndot
            would be successful in bringing all of the Nations, north and south together
            to explore unity past, present and future? Could this have changed the
            history of the discovery process?

            Tecumseh and Mohawk War Chief Teyoninhokarawen were good friends.
            Approximately 50 Grand River warriors fought with Tecumseh in his
            area of opperations. After Tecumseh was killed at the Thames many of
            his followers took refuge at Grand River including Tenskwatawa (the
            prophet) his brother. Some of the Shawnee and the other western
            Nations decendants still live here at Grand River to this day.

            If the friendship of the leaders were strong enough and the warriors for
            Grand River were still interested in the same area of operations - maybe the
            historical reports of Tecumseh were not reported correctly and Tecumseh were
            mearly wounded and not killed? Maybe the death was of slow nature, and due to
            complications of his wounds - this would have provided Tecumseh to bestow what
            made him sucessful over his nation to his best warriors to enable them to
            continue his legacy - but a price worth prolonging the agony of a slow and
            painful death due to complication and infection of his wounds. And the shot that
            he took in the rear end which was not accurately documented in history as his
            "pain in the ass" and thus the historical beginnings of such sematics.
            Strictly opinion of course and not a historical representation, but a a dillusion
            of some of his followers.

            In order to safeguard Tecumseh's remains ALL of the British allied
            Nations in the vicinity took part in a conspiracy to keep the
            location secret forever. This was accomplished by having
            several "grave sites" provided in several communities throughout
            various locations in the region. We also have one here at Grand River.

            Grand Ri ver and the many other "grave sites" should be honored to host the
            remains of Tecumseh's - I am sure some have altered their plans to make the
            grave site more accomodating for the "resting place", however Tecumseh had not
            requested or conveyed this to the newer warriors in the nation. However, if
            Tecumseh were to request this in todays nations the request would be honored
            to accomodate the needs or plans modified to insure his worthy warrior site
            needs were met.

            Strictly opinions and postulations of a non-posting lurker.






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • yawors1@uwindsor.ca
            I must confess I was stunned to read the following: maybe the historical reports of Tecumseh were not reported correctly and Tecumseh were mearly wounded and
            Message 5 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              I must confess I was stunned to read the following:

              "maybe the historical reports of Tecumseh were not reported correctly and
              Tecumseh were
              mearly wounded and not killed? Maybe the death was of slow nature, and
              due to
              complications of his wounds - this would have provided Tecumseh to bestow
              what
              made him sucessful over his nation to his best warriors to enable them to

              continue his legacy - but a price worth prolonging the agony of a slow
              and
              painful death due to complication and infection of his wounds. And the
              shot that
              he took in the rear end which was not accurately documented in history as
              his
              "pain in the ass" and thus the historical beginnings of such sematics.
              Strictly opinion of course and not a historical representation, but a a
              dillusion
              of some of his followers."

              I have never seen any of this suggested in any source, primary or
              secondary, that I have come across so far. Are these musings just
              supposition, based on wishful thinking? If there are serious sources for
              these statements, I'm sure we'd all like to hear about them.

              Harrison was quite sure Tecumseh had been killed. He knew Tecumseh by
              sight. So how could he have been so sure, if he didn't see the body? I
              haven't read Harrison's papers so I don't know the particulars of what he
              had to say on this - can anybody enlighten us?

              There are primary sources that involve officers of the 41st Regiment who
              were captured at Moraviantown, who were shown a number of bodies after the
              battle and asked to verify the identities of any they knew. All these
              officers knew Tecumseh well by sight.

              Not to be unduly gruesome, but they state they saw Tecumseh's body, and it
              had been most foully mutilated, presumably by "souvenir hunters". It is
              difficult in the year 2006 to get yourself in the frame of mind where you
              can understand the motivation for somebody wanting a razor strop or
              tobacco pouch made out of human skin. But there you go - it happened in
              frontier warfare.

              If the officers' first-hand accounts are true, and there is no apparent
              reason why they would be lying, then it would seem very unlikely that
              Tecumseh's remains could be recovered until the Americans withrew towards
              Detroit. This withdrawal did happen fairly quickly, Harrison withdrew
              towards Detroit the day after the battle. In the interim, were these
              bodies buried on the field? I believe the British casualties were buried,
              but were the Native Warriors who had been killed left out to rot? We must
              recognize the racism that pervaded "civilized" attitudes to "savages" at
              the time of the War of 1812 - and long after, unfortunately.

              I haven't run across anything yet that details what happened to these
              bodies after the British officers saw them, then were led off towards
              eventual captivity in Ohio and Kentucky. So it's not impossible that a
              body could have been recovered a day or two after the battle, whether by
              digging up all the new graves until the body was found, or finding it
              still lying on the field. Either way, the body must have been in rough
              shape. The point here is that Tecumseh's body - dead or alive - was
              apparently not carried back to "safety" (from disrespectful acts of
              American frontiersmen, presumably) by Native Warriors as they retreated
              from the field. At best, it was recovered a day or two later, after
              having been foully mutilated.

              Hero myths are actually a very interesting field of study. It is
              instructive to compare some recurring stories about great figures. One
              story is the idea that the hero doesn't die, but is off somewhere sleeping
              until needed again (King Arthur, Sir Francis Drake, etc.).
              The psychology behind all such stories seems clearer if you stand back and
              look at them as a group. Put simply, a profound sense of loss leads to a
              certain amount of wishful thinking.

              Jim Yaworsky
              41st

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • wolf_bna
              As I am not Shawnee I cannot speak on their behalf. I can however relay what I have been told by them as well as my Nation s own oral history. I have never
              Message 6 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                As I am not Shawnee I cannot speak on their behalf. I can however
                relay what I have been told by them as well as my Nation's own oral
                history.

                I have never heard any such story that claimed Tecumseh was carried
                from the field alive only to die at some other time and location. It
                is not within our oral history nor what I've heard from the Shawnee,
                the Lenape, or the Chippawas of the Themes, Walpole Island, Stoney
                and Kettle Points etc.

                The oral history has always been clear that he was killed in the
                battle and his body was recovered. The military tradition (especially
                among the U.S. Army's Rangers) of recovering the bodies of their
                fellow soldiers from the field can trace it's roots to this Native
                trait. If the bodies were removed by the American or British soldiers
                and even buried by them, they still would have been recovered by the
                Natives. I am not at liberty to detail the ceremony we call Ohkiweh
                or "The Feast Of The Dead" but, it involves the remains of our
                ancestors. It is just as important as the Condolence at death.

                At the Battle of Oriskany during the American Revolutionary War, the
                bodies of ALL of the Seneca and Mohawk Warriors were recovered and
                given the proper ceremonies to send them to the Spirit World. An
                extremely important ritual among Native people. The bodies of the
                Tryon County Militia still lay where they fell on the battle field to
                this day.

                The "burial site conspiracy" was devised by the Nations to detour
                anyone from finding and desecrating his resting place.

                For example Joseph Brant's remains are not buried at the Mohawk
                Chapel. His tomb was desecrated at the turn of the 20th century and
                his remains were taken and are lost forever. This is what the people
                were trying to prevent back then.
              • lalozon
                From: I must confess I was stunned to read the following: maybe the historical reports of .. Tecumseh were mearly wounded and not
                Message 7 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  From: <yawors1@...>

                  " I must confess I was stunned to read the following: "maybe the historical
                  reports of .. Tecumseh were mearly wounded and not killed? ... Harrison was
                  quite sure Tecumseh had been killed. He knew Tecumseh by
                  sight ...they state they saw Tecumseh's body, and it had been most foully
                  mutilated, presumably by "souvenir hunters".
                  .................

                  From: "wolf_bna" <britishnativeallies@...>

                  I have never heard any such story that claimed Tecumseh was carried
                  from the field alive only to die at some other time and location.






                  I agree with Mr. Yaworsky and Mr. Thomas


                  Members of Ken Hall's 'Kentucky Light Dragoons' who have visited the
                  Kentucky museums and have photos of a captured 41st Regiment drum, a lantern
                  shade supposedly made from a piece of Tecumseh's back skin, etc., relics
                  from the Battle of the Thames brought back to Kentucky by members of the
                  Kentucky Forces who fought at the Battle of the Thames.

                  They have also researched documents that reports the 'Kentucky Light
                  Dragoons' and USA Forces victory at the Battle of the Thames and that
                  Tecumseh was killed and identified as the Shawnee known as 'Tecumthe'.



                  James Alexander Thom states that his book "PANTHER IN THE SKY"
                  ISBN:0-345-30596-5 which chronicles the life of Tecumseh, was researched
                  from original documents and Shawnee oral history which state Tecumseh was
                  killed during the Battle of the Thames.

                  As does John Sugden author of "TECUMSEH'S LAST STAND" ISBN: 0-8061-1944-6



                  Altho reports verify for sure that Elvis is alive and works at a gas station
                  in Hamtramik Michigan ....



                  Yrs.,
                  L2
                • Peter Monahan
                  Mr Yaworski My reaction to the post you quote was the same as yours: shock. It was less than coherent and perhaps, to be charitable, an attempt to be
                  Message 8 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Mr Yaworski

                    My reaction to the post you quote was the same as yours: shock. It was less than coherent and perhaps, to be charitable, an attempt to be humourous. as really "out there" speculation, I would suggest that it is an unprofitable avenue in which to invest much further discussion.

                    Peter Monahan, Sgt Major, CFNA
                    ============================================================


                    " I must confess I was stunned to read the following: "maybe the historical reports of .. Tecumseh were mearly wounded and not killed? ...

                    Harrison was quite sure Tecumseh had been killed. He knew Tecumseh by
                    sight ...they state they saw Tecumseh's body, and it had been most foully mutilated, presumably by "souvenir hunters".
                    .................

                    From: "wolf_bna" <britishnativeallies@...>

                    I have never heard any such story that claimed Tecumseh was carried
                    from the field alive only to die at some other time and location.






                    I agree with Mr. Yaworsky and Mr. Thomas


                    Members of Ken Hall's 'Kentucky Light Dragoons' who have visited the
                    Kentucky museums and have photos of a captured 41st Regiment drum, a lantern
                    shade supposedly made from a piece of Tecumseh's back skin, etc., relics
                    from the Battle of the Thames brought back to Kentucky by members of the
                    Kentucky Forces who fought at the Battle of the Thames.

                    They have also researched documents that reports the 'Kentucky Light
                    Dragoons' and USA Forces victory at the Battle of the Thames and that
                    Tecumseh was killed and identified as the Shawnee known as 'Tecumthe'.



                    James Alexander Thom states that his book "PANTHER IN THE SKY"
                    ISBN:0-345-30596-5 which chronicles the life of Tecumseh, was researched
                    from original documents and Shawnee oral history which state Tecumseh was
                    killed during the Battle of the Thames.

                    As does John Sugden author of "TECUMSEH'S LAST STAND" ISBN: 0-8061-1944-6



                    Altho reports verify for sure that Elvis is alive and works at a gas station
                    in Hamtramik Michigan ....



                    Yrs.,
                    L2





                    The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                    Unit Contact information for North America:
                    ---------------------------------
                    Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                    http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                    American Forces Unit Listing
                    http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                    Yahoo! Groups Links






                    ============================================================
                  • Scott McDonald
                    This web page deals with several first hand accounts of Tecumseh s death. http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Cove/8286/tdeath.html enjoy Scott McD.
                    Message 9 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      This web page deals with several "first hand" accounts of Tecumseh's death.
                      http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Cove/8286/tdeath.html
                      enjoy

                      Scott McD.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Tom Fournier
                      From one of Wolf s postings: That can be attributed to British Alligence and a Mohawk War Chief named Teyoninhokarawen! I ll bet nobody has ever heard of him
                      Message 10 of 25 , Feb 4, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        From one of Wolf's postings:

                        "That can be attributed to British Alligence and a Mohawk War Chief
                        named Teyoninhokarawen! I'll bet nobody has ever heard of him (trick
                        question)?"

                        Oh oh a trick question ...I was going to try Major John Norton ...

                        On another note, Wolf thank you for sharing your oral traditions and
                        your thoughts. To me they are a generous contribution, impactful and
                        the cause for reflection. It is impossible to picture the potential
                        outcomes of the conflict without considering your forefathers' many
                        significant contributions.

                        Your ally and your servant,

                        Tom Fournier
                        41st Regiment of Foot
                      • wolf_bna
                        ... and ... and ... potential ... Mr. Fournier...and all Sir, You are most welcome! Congratulations on the trick question! Teyoninhokarawen is indeed Major
                        Message 11 of 25 , Feb 4, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Fournier"
                          <tom4141fournier@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > From one of Wolf's postings:
                          >
                          > "That can be attributed to British Alligence and a Mohawk War Chief
                          > named Teyoninhokarawen! I'll bet nobody has ever heard of him (trick
                          > question)?"
                          >
                          > Oh oh a trick question ...I was going to try Major John Norton ...
                          >
                          > On another note, Wolf thank you for sharing your oral traditions
                          and
                          > your thoughts. To me they are a generous contribution, impactful
                          and
                          > the cause for reflection. It is impossible to picture the
                          potential
                          > outcomes of the conflict without considering your forefathers' many
                          > significant contributions.
                          >
                          > Your ally and your servant,
                          >
                          > Tom Fournier
                          > 41st Regiment of Foot
                          >

                          Mr. Fournier...and all

                          Sir,

                          You are most welcome! Congratulations on the trick question!
                          Teyoninhokarawen is indeed Major John Norton. However, the average
                          Canadian doesn't know who he was.

                          It is our earnest hope that we do not offend anyone but rather
                          explain our history as it pertains to us. The difficult part of re-
                          enacting for us is that we are charged with maintaining and telling
                          our Nations' history as it has been passed down from those we speak
                          about. We still have a Nation and a Clan to anwser to should our
                          actions become dishonorable.

                          We have the precarious responsibility to speak on behalf of our
                          ancestors and ultimately our people. In doing so we often find
                          ourselves in a battle of our history versus someone else's version.
                          At times it can become extremely frustrating. As you witnessed at the
                          41st Lecture I expressed the notion that most of the "written"
                          historical accounts were not lies so much as they were "cultural
                          misunderstandings."

                          As you are aware you (and anyone else) are always welcome at our camp
                          to discuss our history and culture.

                          In Peace and Friendship,

                          Capt. Wolf Thomas BNA
                        • Stalin15@aol.com
                          This is an essay I wrote about on the topic of Tecumseh s body: Tecumseh: From Confusion to Legacy” The War of 1812 is often considered a forgotten war in
                          Message 12 of 25 , Feb 7, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            This is an essay I wrote about on the topic of Tecumseh's body:


                            Tecumseh: From Confusion to Legacy”
                            The War of 1812 is often considered a forgotten war in the minds of most
                            Americans. From the beginning, the war went badly for the Americans, and
                            blunders were abound on the fighting fronts. The results of the Treaty of Ghent,
                            which ended the war, maintained the “status quos,” meaning each side will
                            revert themselves to a pre-war position. Despite the apparent tie, the war
                            created many folk heroes and events that live on to this day. Andrew Jackson won
                            a huge victory at the Battle of New Orleans, which was later immortalized in
                            a song. The president’s house was burned by the British, and with a new coat
                            of paint, became the White House. Lastly, Tecumseh, the leader of an
                            Indian confederation, was killed at the Battle of the Thames (1814). While, the
                            other events and heroes have a clear-cut victor and story, the story of
                            Tecumseh is unique. The tale of his death at the hands of the Americans has been
                            conflicting and shrouded in mystery. The result of his mysterious demise
                            has turned Tecumseh into a malleable figure and propelled him from confusion to
                            legacy.
                            The death of Tecumseh has often been a controversial issue and some of the
                            sources have become politically tainted, as his death became a political warm
                            spot during the 1840 presidential campaign. However, “[t]here exists no less
                            than forty-five (perhaps considerable more!) accounts”_[1]_
                            (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn1) of his death. These differing accounts are the fuels
                            that enhance Tecumseh’s mysterious death, as the competing players (British,
                            Americans, Indians) all have differing accounts of what happened to his
                            body. This paper will look at several claims of these three nations in order to
                            examine the confusion and creditability in thier claims.
                            In order to examine the claims, some background about the Battle of the
                            Thames needs to be considered. William Henry Harrison was commanding the
                            Americans, while the British were under command of General Procter and the Indians,
                            who were allied with the British, were under the control of Tecumseh. A
                            small swamp separated the forces. The Americans had around 3000 men arranged
                            such that they could swoop in, destroy the British lines, and descend upon the
                            Indians_[2]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn2) (see appendix A). Col.
                            Richard Mentor Johnson, leader of the Kentucky mounted rifles, was directed
                            “to take [the] ground to the left and forming upon that flank to endeavor to
                            turn the right of the Indians”._[3]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn3)
                            There are differing accounts of how many troops the British and Indians
                            had. Some put it as low as 1200_[4]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn4)
                            or as high as 2500;_[5]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn5) either way
                            the British and Indians were considerably outnumbered.
                            The battle itself lasted less then thirty minutes. Colonel Johnson, who was
                            on the left, charged to the right of the British line along with other
                            mounted men. This opened the door for additional infantry to pour through. The
                            British regulars “dispirited by long continued exposure and privation made but
                            a feeble resistance”_[6]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn6) and lasted
                            only a few minutes before surrendering. With the British left broken, and
                            Proctor fleeing, the Americans dismounted and converged upon the Indians.
                            Colonel Johnson was wounded “in a very painful part-his knuckles [and] in his
                            body”_[7]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn7) whlie leading this charge,
                            but was still able to aim and kill a tall, athletic and black-eyed warrior
                            with a dark complexion._[8]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn8)
                            Additional American troops broke through the swamp on the left and formed upon the
                            Indian rear. The fighting between the Kentuckians and Indians was short,
                            close-quarters and destructive. The natives lasted only a short while and in the “
                            usual Indian way Tecumseh’s warriors scattered and faded back through the
                            swamp”_[9]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn9) leaving only thirty-three
                            dead behind on the ground. It is among these thirty-three dead that Tecumseh’s
                            legacy starts.
                            The first claim by the Americans is that Colonel Richard Mentor Johnson
                            killed Tecumseh. However, as John Sugden, a professor at Hereward College in
                            England, points out, “[the] accounts from the Johnston camp fail to establish
                            that Tecumseh was killed by the Colonel,”_[10]_
                            (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn10) as many of the accounts are contradictory and have been used to
                            further his political career. Further evidence is gathered from his
                            appearance. Tecumseh was said to have a “face oval rather then angular [. . .] his
                            eyes clear, transparent hazel [. . .] and his complexion more of a light brown
                            or tan”_[11]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn11) and not that of the
                            black-eyed warrior that Johnson claimed to have killed. Additionally, the
                            wounds of Tecumseh needs to be called into quiestion. Benson Lossing, who wrote
                            the first comprehensive story of the War of 1812, recites Johnson’s claim to
                            have killed Tecumseh outright with a pistol shot through the head._[12]_
                            (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn12) However, William Caldwell remembers
                            overtaking and passing Tecumseh after the fight and noticed that a rifle bullet
                            penetrated his breast through his hunting coat._[13]_
                            (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn13) This contradictory evidence suggests that the traditional
                            claim of Johnson killing Tecumseh is at least problematic if not unfounded.
                            Another traditional claim that has been purported is that Tecumseh was
                            disfigured and skinned by the Americans. General George Sanderson, who was a
                            captain in the American army and who knew Tecumseh, “saw the Kentucky troops in
                            the very act of cutting the skin from the body of the chief”._[14]_
                            (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn14) This cannot be taken too seriously, as other
                            evidence suggests that “[a] fallen Potawatamie brave was probably taken for
                            Tecumseh [. . .] and mutilated.”_[15]_
                            (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn15) Additional evidence, coming from Tecumseh’s Indian friend Shabeni
                            (Roundhead), in Sugden’s book, reinforces the claim that Tecumseh was, “by the side
                            of [. . .] another Indian whose skin has been taken off [and his] body has
                            not been touched”._[16]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn16) General
                            Harrison, as reported by Allan Eckert, who wrote a biography of Tecumseh, viewed
                            the mutilated body and thought, “it much too small”._[17]_
                            (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn17) This just adds to the confusion and contradictory
                            evidence serves to expand Tecumseh’s legacy. This expansion of Tecumseh’s
                            legacy is furthered, in that his body has never been discovered..
                            Many people have claimed to possess Tecumseh’s body, or that they or know
                            what happened to his body. The Sac chief, Black Hawk claims that “Tecumseh’s
                            body was taken away and buried some five miles from the battlefield”._[18]_
                            (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn18) This claim is supported by General
                            Procter’s native interpreter Clarke, who “asserted positively that Tecumseh
                            was killed, and his body was carried off by the Indians”._[19]_
                            (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn19) David Edmunds, in an article for Timeline
                            magazine, suggestes that, “Since most of the slain were buried in a mass grave near
                            the battlefield, Tecumseh probably was interred with his fallen warriors”
                            ._[20]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn20) Furthermore, Walpole Island
                            has built a memorial cairn that supposedly has Tecumseh’s bones interred in it,
                            while Sugden reports a claim that “Tecumseh’s body was presented to the
                            British [. . .] who took it to Sandwhich for burial”._[21]_
                            (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn21) The last claim, belongs to Shawnee tradition, and might
                            be the best supported claim as to the location of Tecumseh’s body. Thier
                            claim states, “No white man knows, or ever will know, where we took the body of
                            our beloved Tecumseh and buried him. Tecumseh will come again!”_[22]_
                            (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn22) As shown by the differing claims,
                            Tecumseh’s death is an enigma that probably will never be solved.
                            The final moments of Tecumseh’s life are in dispute. Nobody is quite sure
                            who killed him, what happened to his body or even where his body is located.
                            History is abound in examples of individuals who are killed in mysterious ways
                            but who are later glorified. A cursory look in the twentieth century
                            reveals examples such as John Fitzgerald Kennedy, Martin Luther King and Mahatma
                            Gandhi. Tecumseh is not unique in being glorified but because he represented a
                            minority and a dying way of life he appeals to both Natives and Americans.
                            His name and spirit lives on in myth, mysticism and in the minds of people,
                            not just on a sign.
                            All cultures need, “people who embody ideals and aspirations about whom a
                            national identity can be hung [. . .] [i]ndians need such figures too”._[23]_
                            (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn23) For America he fits the ideal
                            American mold. Throughout his life he exhibited those qualities that Americans
                            consider worthy. General Leslie Combs recalled Tecumseh saving his life at the
                            Ft. Miami Massacre and noted that he, “ [displayed] noble countenance, gallant
                            bearing [a] sonorous voice [while having] something noble and commanding in
                            all his actions”._[24]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn24) As Edmunds
                            points out these characteristics make “Tecumseh seem more ‘civilized’ and
                            therefore more acceptable”_[25]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn25) to
                            a white culture. Also, he is an American hero. Tecumseh was the underdog
                            trying to unite a people from an outside source. Americans could also relate
                            to Tecumseh as a patriot as he was advocating freedom and was willing to risk
                            death to fight for what he believed was right for the confederation. Themes
                            like those mentioned have been tangible and enduring to America since the
                            revolution.
                            Tecumseh has been exalted not only by his own tribe but by all Native
                            Americans as well. To oppressed groups whose lands are routinely lost and culture
                            systematically destroyed Tecumseh represents hope. Hope is shown in a
                            Shawnee legend that “predicted a second coming [. . .] by the flight of a star
                            across the heavens. When that day came all Indian tribes would unite”._[26]_
                            (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn26) Indeed, Tecumseh’s confederation was
                            made up of numerous Indian tribes. Tecumseh’s opposition to intertribal
                            hostilities and for promoting peace and mutual support has made Tecumseh a
                            powerful pan-Indian symbol. This symbol is enlarged through his mysticism.
                            Tecumseh was a visionary in the most literal sense. Tecumseh visited Creek
                            country to invite them to join his confederation and won many over, especially
                            after predicting the 1811 earthquake in that nation. He also, “predicted the
                            falling of stars would prove the Indians’ ability to defeat the Americans”
                            _[27]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn27) while his brother seemed to be
                            a “purveyor of mystic mumbo-jumbo.”_[28]_
                            (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn28) Especially, after the Battle of Tippecanoe (1811) when Tecumseh’s
                            bother promised medicine that would make Indians invulnerable to bullets but
                            proved to be ineffective. The visions allowed Tecumseh to evolve past his
                            brother and take control of the confederation and change it from a religious
                            movement to a political movement that appealed to all Indians no matter what
                            tribe. Tecumseh also prophesized his own death at the Battle of the Thames
                            rather then surrender to the Americans._[29]_
                            (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn29) The resurrection of Tecumseh is something that Shawnee tradition (as
                            previously stated) encourages. Thus, the duality of mysticism and myth
                            associated with Tecumseh has allowed him to enter the minds of America.
                            Tecumseh has been immortalized in popular culture and, “the aura of Tecumseh’
                            s fame has been felt on both sides of the St. Lawrence”_[30]_ (aoldb:
                            //mail/write/template.htm#_ftn30) and the Atlantic. A five act play about Tecumseh,
                            published in 1886 was regarded in it’s day as Canada’s “greatest literary
                            achievement”._[31]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn31) In America,
                            Tecumseh did not reach popularity until his death became a political issue during
                            the 1840 presidental campaign, as Richard Mentor Johnson ran for vice
                            president. A slew of “ballads, biographies, almanacs, and [. . .] novels [help]
                            put the Shawnee center stage” _[32]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn32)
                            in hearts and minds of Americans. Additionally, Tecumseh was transported
                            across the Atlantic and planted into German culture. Tecumseh literature
                            flourished during Nazi era and reinforced Hiterite ideals of “pan-ism”, uniting
                            under duress and strong central leadership. The fall of Nazism did not stop
                            Tecumseh as his story became an East German major motion picture in 1972 and, “
                            Tecumseh novels and biographies continue to leave German presses, the last in
                            1996 ”._[33]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn33) This “Tecumseh
                            Industry” has not stopped since its inception as many children biographies and
                            films have been published along with numerous novels which “testifies that
                            after nearly two hundred years Tecumseh has come to belong to all Americans”
                            _[34]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn34) , if not the world.
                            Tecumseh’s mysterious and violent death combined with the inability to
                            locate his body and surmise who killed him has given Tecumseh a universal appeal.
                            He exemplifies the European or American concept of ‘noble savage’ and many
                            of his personal qualities like gallantry, honesty, determination and
                            masculinity are easily identified with such an image._[35]_
                            (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn35) Tecumseh’s myth and mysticism has resulted in a popular
                            culture response in not only literature but film and theater as well. Tecumseh
                            sells well and the effects of the “Tecumseh industry” has given him a
                            legendary status that has been maintained far longer then Tecumseh’s confederation.
                            The red response to Tecumseh has been in terms of hope, “that it might be
                            possible in a changing and turbulent world to find permanent peace and plenty”
                            ._[36]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn36) This dream still exists
                            today as traditional Shawnee legend bolsters a second coming of Tecumseh._[37]_
                            (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn37) Perhaps, the second coming has
                            already occurred; perhaps Tecumseh was, will be and continues with everyone red or
                            white.


                            ____________________________________

                            _[1]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref1) Allan Eckert, A Sorrow in
                            Our Heart: The Life of Tecumseh. (New York: Bantam, 1992) 787.

                            _[2]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref2) Moses Dawson, Historical
                            Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                            (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 427.

                            _[3]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref3) Moses Dawson, Historical
                            Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                            (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 427.


                            _[4]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref4) Moses Dawson, Historical
                            Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                            (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 193.

                            _[5]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref5) Moses Dawson, Historical
                            Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                            (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 429.

                            _[6]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref6) Moses Dawson, Historical
                            Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                            (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 193.

                            _[7]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref7) Pioneer Scrapbook. Death of
                            Tecumseh. Bowling Green, Ohio. 1910: 60.

                            _[8]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref8) William Hutch, A Chapter
                            of the History of the War of 1812 in the Northwest. (Cincinnati: Miami
                            Printing and Publishing Company, 1872) 152.

                            _[9]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref9) John Oskison, Tecumseh and
                            his Times; The Story of a Great Indian. (1874) 218.


                            _[10]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref10) John Sugden, Tecumseh’s
                            Last Stand. (University of Oklahoma Press, 1985) 141.

                            _[11]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref11) William Hutch, A Chapter
                            of the History of the War of 1812 in the Northwest.
                            (Cincinnati: Miami Printing and Publishing Company, 1872) 113.

                            _[12]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref12) Benson Lossing,
                            Pictorial Fieldbook of the War of 1812, 1869, 2 Apr. 2004 <
                            http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~wcarr1/Lossing2/Chap26.html>.

                            _[13]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref13) Peter Clarke, Origin and
                            Traditional History of the Wyandotts and Sketches of other Indian Tribes of
                            North America. (Toronto: Hunter, Rose and Co., 1870) 114.

                            _[14]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref14) Pioneer Scrapbook. The
                            Death of Tecumseh. Bowling Green, Ohio. 1910: 60.

                            _[15]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref15) Peter Clarke, Origin and
                            Traditional History of the Wyandotts and Sketches of other Indian Tribes of
                            North America. (Toronto: Hunter, Rose and Co., 1870) 113.


                            _[16]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref16) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                            Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 377.

                            _[17]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref17) Allan Eckert, A Sorrow
                            in Our Heart: The Life of Tecumseh. (New York: Bantam Books, 1992) 792.

                            _[18]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref18) John Oskison, Tecumseh
                            and his Times; The Story of a Great Indian. (1874) 218.

                            _[19]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref19) Benson Lossing,
                            Pictorial Fieldbook of the War of 1812, 1869, 2 Apr. 2004 <
                            http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~wcarr1/Lossing2/Chap26.html>.

                            _[20]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref20) David Edmunds, “The Thin
                            Red Line: Tecumseh, the Prophet and Shawnee Resistance.” Timeline Jan. 1988:
                            17.

                            _[21]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref21) John Sugden, Tecumseh’s
                            Last Stand. (University of Oklahoma Press, 1985) 215.

                            _[22]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref22) Allan Eckert, A Sorrow in
                            Our Heart: The Life of Tecumseh. (New York: Bantam Books, 1992) 794.

                            _[23]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref23) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                            Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 390.

                            _[24]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref24) Pioneer Scrapbook.
                            Tecumseh Described. (Bowling Green, Ohio. 1910) 59.

                            _[25]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref25) David Edmunds, “The Thin
                            Red Line: Tecumseh, the Prophet and Shawnee Resistance.” Timeline Jan. 1988:
                            10.

                            _[26]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref26) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                            Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 389.

                            _[27]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref27) Mary Jane McDaniel, “
                            Tecumseh’s Visits to the Creeks,” The Alabama Review 33 (1980): 8.

                            _[28]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref28) David Edmunds, “The Thin
                            Red Line: Tecumseh, the Prophet and Shawnee Resistance.” Timeline Jan. 1988:
                            9.

                            _[29]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref29) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                            Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 379.

                            _[30]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref30) David Edmunds, “The Thin
                            Red Line: Tecumseh, the Prophet and Shawnee Resistance.” Timeline Jan. 1988:
                            12.

                            _[31]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref31) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                            Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 392.

                            _[32]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref32) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                            Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 397.

                            _[33]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref33) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                            Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 395.

                            _[34]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref34) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                            Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 400.

                            _[35]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref35) David Edmunds, Tecumseh
                            and the Quest for Indian Leadership. (Boston: Little, Brown and Company, 1984)
                            224.

                            _[36]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref36) John Oskison, Tecumseh
                            and his Times; The Story of a Great Indian. (1874) 237.

                            _[37]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref37) Allan Eckert, A Sorrow
                            in Our Heart: The Life of Tecumseh. (New York: Bantam Books, 1992) 794.




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • wolf_bna
                            I have the great honor of posting the following reply forwaded and posted with the permission of Panther Clan Mother Dark Rain Thom. For verification of her
                            Message 13 of 25 , Feb 7, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I have the great honor of posting the following reply forwaded and
                              posted with the permission of Panther Clan Mother Dark Rain Thom. For
                              verification of her right to speak 1812 Members may search for Dark
                              Rain Thom James Alexander Thom or Random House Canada.

                              MY Dear Cedar--

                              As usual you have found the heart of the matter and stated it very
                              well. He has now found the peace he was denied while alive, in the
                              bosom of Mother Earth - as it is intended.

                              At this time of the circle of time it matters not when nor why he
                              died. We do know that at this time he is in spirit and embraced by
                              those who orginally gave him life. Creator and Mother Earth. So it
                              shall always be. Aho

                              WHERE he was buried? When he died? By what means? Those who needed to
                              know KNEW. Those who did not need to know...wonder and throw out wild
                              suppositions. Those who were with him during the battle were well
                              experienced at tending to such events as a warriors death in battle.
                              This was certainly not their first experience in battle. Those who
                              survived knew well what to do and when and how and where. IF others
                              chose to not believe it or they chose to start or perpetuate their
                              own myths...so be it.

                              It matters not. Some say well, they need to pay tribute to him at his
                              resting place. NOT. His spirit now flies with the wind, shines with
                              the milky way, traverses the universe. He and his spirit is no longer
                              bound by PLACE. A tobacco offering, a prayer all reach him thru
                              immortal means.

                              I am comforted to know no curious, shallow thinking persons claiming
                              an entitlement to such sacred knowledge, can disturb him.

                              Thank you for speaking so well for our beloved departed warrior.
                              Love
                              Aunty Dark Rain

                              Single use by permission has been granted to:
                              Cedar Heart
                              also known as
                              r patrick nichols
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.