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Re: [WarOf1812] TECUMSEH'S Bones

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  • Gordon Deans
    Larry, Peter; ... Company, ... It is not new to me now that you both knew what you know, but it would be news to me if either of you knows if Mark Dickerson
    Message 1 of 25 , Feb 1, 2006
      Larry, Peter;
      >
      > Mark Dickerson, Field Commander of the 1st (Royal Scots) Regt - Light
      Company,
      > lived on the battlefield.
      >
      It is not new to me now that you both knew what you know, but it would be
      news to me if either of you knows if Mark Dickerson has any great relics to
      show for his time on the battlefield? Also, do you know which lot that his
      father's farm was on?

      Gord Deans
    • lalozon
      From: Gordon Deans Larry, Peter; Gord as noted in my original email NOTE: Peter Twist is not a subscriber of this WarOf1812 Yahoo
      Message 2 of 25 , Feb 1, 2006
        From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>

        Larry, Peter;






        Gord

        as noted in my original email

        NOTE: Peter Twist is not a subscriber of this WarOf1812 Yahoo Group




        as far as

        " if Mark Dickerson has any great relics to show for his time on the
        battlefield? "

        and

        "... do you know which lot that his father's farm was on?


        You would have to contact Mark directly regarding this information



        Yrs.,
        L2
      • Casey Coleman
        Hello everyone... I usually don t reply to the things written in the yahoogroup, for I find it interesting just to sit back and read what is written by
        Message 3 of 25 , Feb 1, 2006
          Hello everyone... I usually don't reply to the things written in the yahoogroup, for I find it interesting just to sit back and read what is written by everyone else. However, being a first nations person, I feel that I should say something on the topic of Tecumseh's remains... I have heard many stories of what happened to Tecumseh after he died. Many people believe that he was buried shortly after which, as most of you know, there was no time to. The story that I am more inclined to believe would have been that his body was passed on from village to village, tribe to tribe, to finally rest where the American's could not get what little remained of him. I wouldn't think that he would pass into Mohawk hands, due to the fact that he had few followers from the band.



          Case "Masta" C.

          we will always remember you
          Jay "Masta" J.

          ---------------------------------

          What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • wolf_bna
          ... the yahoogroup, for I find it interesting just to sit back and read what is written by everyone else. However, being a first nations person, I feel that
          Message 4 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
            --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Casey Coleman <colemancase@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Hello everyone... I usually don't reply to the things written in
            the yahoogroup, for I find it interesting just to sit back and read
            what is written by everyone else. However, being a first nations
            person, I feel that I should say something on the topic of
            Tecumseh's remains...I wouldn't think that he would pass into Mohawk
            hands, due to the fact that he had few followers from the band.
            >
            >
            >
            > Case "Masta" C.
            >
            > we will always remember you
            > Jay "Masta" J.
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            >
            > What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


            Seko rontatatekena,
            Skennen ken

            Understand that I mean no disrespect in my response to your post.

            You mention that you are a "First Nations Person" and as such you
            should be aware of the burial conspiracy that I mentioned in my
            previous post (as it is common knowledge among our people).

            You also slam the Mohawk Nation's involvement in "handling Tecumseh's
            body" in regards to what you think. You base your thought on "the
            fact that he (Tecumseh) had few followers from the (Mohawk) band."

            Tecumseh did not have to recruit followers from the Six Nations
            because the Six Nations had already been allied to eachother for one
            thousand eight hundred years. As I explained in my previous post the
            Peacemaker Tekanawita (a Weyndot or Huron) had already set out to
            bring all of the Nations of North and South America together as one
            people 1,800 years before Tecumseh.

            Tecumseh and Mohawk War Chief Teyoninhokarawen were good friends.
            Approximately 50 Grand River warriors fought with Tecumseh in his
            area of opperations. After Tecumseh was killed at the Thames many of
            his followers took refuge at Grand River including Tenskwatawa (the
            prophet) his brother. Some of the Shawnee and the other western
            Nations decendants still live here at Grand River to this day.

            In order to safeguard Tecumseh's remains ALL of the British allied
            Nations in the vicinity took part in a conspiracy to keep the
            location secret forever. This was accomplished by having
            several "grave sites" provided in several communities throughout
            various locations in the region. We also have one here at Grand River.

            In closing I'd like to mention that we do not refer to ourselves as
            bands! A band provides music for patrons in a bar on week-ends. We
            are Sovereign peoples and refer to ourselves as Nations.

            Of coarse you don't have to take my word for anything that I have
            stated. Therefore, I offer to you my personal invitation to come to
            Grand River Territory to speak to the Six Nations people or to the
            people of the Shawnee Nation the next time they come to visit us.

            If you are interested please let me know and I will make all of the
            necessary arangements.

            Niawen ikhsa's,
            Okwaho Ronnatanonnha
          • CalvertMck@aol.com
            In a message dated 2/2/2006 7:56:17 AM Central Standard Time, britishnativeallies@rogers.com writes: Tecumseh did not have to recruit followers from the Six
            Message 5 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
              In a message dated 2/2/2006 7:56:17 AM Central Standard Time,
              britishnativeallies@... writes:


              Tecumseh did not have to recruit followers from the Six Nations
              because the Six Nations had already been allied to eachother for one
              thousand eight hundred years. As I explained in my previous post the
              Peacemaker Tekanawita (a Weyndot or Huron) had already set out to
              bring all of the Nations of North and South America together as one
              people 1,800 years before Tecumseh.
              If the Nations leaders had it to do all over again, do you think the Weyndot
              would be successful in bringing all of the Nations, north and south together
              to explore unity past, present and future? Could this have changed the
              history of the discovery process?

              Tecumseh and Mohawk War Chief Teyoninhokarawen were good friends.
              Approximately 50 Grand River warriors fought with Tecumseh in his
              area of opperations. After Tecumseh was killed at the Thames many of
              his followers took refuge at Grand River including Tenskwatawa (the
              prophet) his brother. Some of the Shawnee and the other western
              Nations decendants still live here at Grand River to this day.

              If the friendship of the leaders were strong enough and the warriors for
              Grand River were still interested in the same area of operations - maybe the
              historical reports of Tecumseh were not reported correctly and Tecumseh were
              mearly wounded and not killed? Maybe the death was of slow nature, and due to
              complications of his wounds - this would have provided Tecumseh to bestow what
              made him sucessful over his nation to his best warriors to enable them to
              continue his legacy - but a price worth prolonging the agony of a slow and
              painful death due to complication and infection of his wounds. And the shot that
              he took in the rear end which was not accurately documented in history as his
              "pain in the ass" and thus the historical beginnings of such sematics.
              Strictly opinion of course and not a historical representation, but a a dillusion
              of some of his followers.

              In order to safeguard Tecumseh's remains ALL of the British allied
              Nations in the vicinity took part in a conspiracy to keep the
              location secret forever. This was accomplished by having
              several "grave sites" provided in several communities throughout
              various locations in the region. We also have one here at Grand River.

              Grand Ri ver and the many other "grave sites" should be honored to host the
              remains of Tecumseh's - I am sure some have altered their plans to make the
              grave site more accomodating for the "resting place", however Tecumseh had not
              requested or conveyed this to the newer warriors in the nation. However, if
              Tecumseh were to request this in todays nations the request would be honored
              to accomodate the needs or plans modified to insure his worthy warrior site
              needs were met.

              Strictly opinions and postulations of a non-posting lurker.






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • yawors1@uwindsor.ca
              I must confess I was stunned to read the following: maybe the historical reports of Tecumseh were not reported correctly and Tecumseh were mearly wounded and
              Message 6 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
                I must confess I was stunned to read the following:

                "maybe the historical reports of Tecumseh were not reported correctly and
                Tecumseh were
                mearly wounded and not killed? Maybe the death was of slow nature, and
                due to
                complications of his wounds - this would have provided Tecumseh to bestow
                what
                made him sucessful over his nation to his best warriors to enable them to

                continue his legacy - but a price worth prolonging the agony of a slow
                and
                painful death due to complication and infection of his wounds. And the
                shot that
                he took in the rear end which was not accurately documented in history as
                his
                "pain in the ass" and thus the historical beginnings of such sematics.
                Strictly opinion of course and not a historical representation, but a a
                dillusion
                of some of his followers."

                I have never seen any of this suggested in any source, primary or
                secondary, that I have come across so far. Are these musings just
                supposition, based on wishful thinking? If there are serious sources for
                these statements, I'm sure we'd all like to hear about them.

                Harrison was quite sure Tecumseh had been killed. He knew Tecumseh by
                sight. So how could he have been so sure, if he didn't see the body? I
                haven't read Harrison's papers so I don't know the particulars of what he
                had to say on this - can anybody enlighten us?

                There are primary sources that involve officers of the 41st Regiment who
                were captured at Moraviantown, who were shown a number of bodies after the
                battle and asked to verify the identities of any they knew. All these
                officers knew Tecumseh well by sight.

                Not to be unduly gruesome, but they state they saw Tecumseh's body, and it
                had been most foully mutilated, presumably by "souvenir hunters". It is
                difficult in the year 2006 to get yourself in the frame of mind where you
                can understand the motivation for somebody wanting a razor strop or
                tobacco pouch made out of human skin. But there you go - it happened in
                frontier warfare.

                If the officers' first-hand accounts are true, and there is no apparent
                reason why they would be lying, then it would seem very unlikely that
                Tecumseh's remains could be recovered until the Americans withrew towards
                Detroit. This withdrawal did happen fairly quickly, Harrison withdrew
                towards Detroit the day after the battle. In the interim, were these
                bodies buried on the field? I believe the British casualties were buried,
                but were the Native Warriors who had been killed left out to rot? We must
                recognize the racism that pervaded "civilized" attitudes to "savages" at
                the time of the War of 1812 - and long after, unfortunately.

                I haven't run across anything yet that details what happened to these
                bodies after the British officers saw them, then were led off towards
                eventual captivity in Ohio and Kentucky. So it's not impossible that a
                body could have been recovered a day or two after the battle, whether by
                digging up all the new graves until the body was found, or finding it
                still lying on the field. Either way, the body must have been in rough
                shape. The point here is that Tecumseh's body - dead or alive - was
                apparently not carried back to "safety" (from disrespectful acts of
                American frontiersmen, presumably) by Native Warriors as they retreated
                from the field. At best, it was recovered a day or two later, after
                having been foully mutilated.

                Hero myths are actually a very interesting field of study. It is
                instructive to compare some recurring stories about great figures. One
                story is the idea that the hero doesn't die, but is off somewhere sleeping
                until needed again (King Arthur, Sir Francis Drake, etc.).
                The psychology behind all such stories seems clearer if you stand back and
                look at them as a group. Put simply, a profound sense of loss leads to a
                certain amount of wishful thinking.

                Jim Yaworsky
                41st

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • wolf_bna
                As I am not Shawnee I cannot speak on their behalf. I can however relay what I have been told by them as well as my Nation s own oral history. I have never
                Message 7 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
                  As I am not Shawnee I cannot speak on their behalf. I can however
                  relay what I have been told by them as well as my Nation's own oral
                  history.

                  I have never heard any such story that claimed Tecumseh was carried
                  from the field alive only to die at some other time and location. It
                  is not within our oral history nor what I've heard from the Shawnee,
                  the Lenape, or the Chippawas of the Themes, Walpole Island, Stoney
                  and Kettle Points etc.

                  The oral history has always been clear that he was killed in the
                  battle and his body was recovered. The military tradition (especially
                  among the U.S. Army's Rangers) of recovering the bodies of their
                  fellow soldiers from the field can trace it's roots to this Native
                  trait. If the bodies were removed by the American or British soldiers
                  and even buried by them, they still would have been recovered by the
                  Natives. I am not at liberty to detail the ceremony we call Ohkiweh
                  or "The Feast Of The Dead" but, it involves the remains of our
                  ancestors. It is just as important as the Condolence at death.

                  At the Battle of Oriskany during the American Revolutionary War, the
                  bodies of ALL of the Seneca and Mohawk Warriors were recovered and
                  given the proper ceremonies to send them to the Spirit World. An
                  extremely important ritual among Native people. The bodies of the
                  Tryon County Militia still lay where they fell on the battle field to
                  this day.

                  The "burial site conspiracy" was devised by the Nations to detour
                  anyone from finding and desecrating his resting place.

                  For example Joseph Brant's remains are not buried at the Mohawk
                  Chapel. His tomb was desecrated at the turn of the 20th century and
                  his remains were taken and are lost forever. This is what the people
                  were trying to prevent back then.
                • lalozon
                  From: I must confess I was stunned to read the following: maybe the historical reports of .. Tecumseh were mearly wounded and not
                  Message 8 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
                    From: <yawors1@...>

                    " I must confess I was stunned to read the following: "maybe the historical
                    reports of .. Tecumseh were mearly wounded and not killed? ... Harrison was
                    quite sure Tecumseh had been killed. He knew Tecumseh by
                    sight ...they state they saw Tecumseh's body, and it had been most foully
                    mutilated, presumably by "souvenir hunters".
                    .................

                    From: "wolf_bna" <britishnativeallies@...>

                    I have never heard any such story that claimed Tecumseh was carried
                    from the field alive only to die at some other time and location.






                    I agree with Mr. Yaworsky and Mr. Thomas


                    Members of Ken Hall's 'Kentucky Light Dragoons' who have visited the
                    Kentucky museums and have photos of a captured 41st Regiment drum, a lantern
                    shade supposedly made from a piece of Tecumseh's back skin, etc., relics
                    from the Battle of the Thames brought back to Kentucky by members of the
                    Kentucky Forces who fought at the Battle of the Thames.

                    They have also researched documents that reports the 'Kentucky Light
                    Dragoons' and USA Forces victory at the Battle of the Thames and that
                    Tecumseh was killed and identified as the Shawnee known as 'Tecumthe'.



                    James Alexander Thom states that his book "PANTHER IN THE SKY"
                    ISBN:0-345-30596-5 which chronicles the life of Tecumseh, was researched
                    from original documents and Shawnee oral history which state Tecumseh was
                    killed during the Battle of the Thames.

                    As does John Sugden author of "TECUMSEH'S LAST STAND" ISBN: 0-8061-1944-6



                    Altho reports verify for sure that Elvis is alive and works at a gas station
                    in Hamtramik Michigan ....



                    Yrs.,
                    L2
                  • Peter Monahan
                    Mr Yaworski My reaction to the post you quote was the same as yours: shock. It was less than coherent and perhaps, to be charitable, an attempt to be
                    Message 9 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
                      Mr Yaworski

                      My reaction to the post you quote was the same as yours: shock. It was less than coherent and perhaps, to be charitable, an attempt to be humourous. as really "out there" speculation, I would suggest that it is an unprofitable avenue in which to invest much further discussion.

                      Peter Monahan, Sgt Major, CFNA
                      ============================================================


                      " I must confess I was stunned to read the following: "maybe the historical reports of .. Tecumseh were mearly wounded and not killed? ...

                      Harrison was quite sure Tecumseh had been killed. He knew Tecumseh by
                      sight ...they state they saw Tecumseh's body, and it had been most foully mutilated, presumably by "souvenir hunters".
                      .................

                      From: "wolf_bna" <britishnativeallies@...>

                      I have never heard any such story that claimed Tecumseh was carried
                      from the field alive only to die at some other time and location.






                      I agree with Mr. Yaworsky and Mr. Thomas


                      Members of Ken Hall's 'Kentucky Light Dragoons' who have visited the
                      Kentucky museums and have photos of a captured 41st Regiment drum, a lantern
                      shade supposedly made from a piece of Tecumseh's back skin, etc., relics
                      from the Battle of the Thames brought back to Kentucky by members of the
                      Kentucky Forces who fought at the Battle of the Thames.

                      They have also researched documents that reports the 'Kentucky Light
                      Dragoons' and USA Forces victory at the Battle of the Thames and that
                      Tecumseh was killed and identified as the Shawnee known as 'Tecumthe'.



                      James Alexander Thom states that his book "PANTHER IN THE SKY"
                      ISBN:0-345-30596-5 which chronicles the life of Tecumseh, was researched
                      from original documents and Shawnee oral history which state Tecumseh was
                      killed during the Battle of the Thames.

                      As does John Sugden author of "TECUMSEH'S LAST STAND" ISBN: 0-8061-1944-6



                      Altho reports verify for sure that Elvis is alive and works at a gas station
                      in Hamtramik Michigan ....



                      Yrs.,
                      L2





                      The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                      Unit Contact information for North America:
                      ---------------------------------
                      Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                      http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                      American Forces Unit Listing
                      http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                      Yahoo! Groups Links






                      ============================================================
                    • Scott McDonald
                      This web page deals with several first hand accounts of Tecumseh s death. http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Cove/8286/tdeath.html enjoy Scott McD.
                      Message 10 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
                        This web page deals with several "first hand" accounts of Tecumseh's death.
                        http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Cove/8286/tdeath.html
                        enjoy

                        Scott McD.

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Tom Fournier
                        From one of Wolf s postings: That can be attributed to British Alligence and a Mohawk War Chief named Teyoninhokarawen! I ll bet nobody has ever heard of him
                        Message 11 of 25 , Feb 4, 2006
                          From one of Wolf's postings:

                          "That can be attributed to British Alligence and a Mohawk War Chief
                          named Teyoninhokarawen! I'll bet nobody has ever heard of him (trick
                          question)?"

                          Oh oh a trick question ...I was going to try Major John Norton ...

                          On another note, Wolf thank you for sharing your oral traditions and
                          your thoughts. To me they are a generous contribution, impactful and
                          the cause for reflection. It is impossible to picture the potential
                          outcomes of the conflict without considering your forefathers' many
                          significant contributions.

                          Your ally and your servant,

                          Tom Fournier
                          41st Regiment of Foot
                        • wolf_bna
                          ... and ... and ... potential ... Mr. Fournier...and all Sir, You are most welcome! Congratulations on the trick question! Teyoninhokarawen is indeed Major
                          Message 12 of 25 , Feb 4, 2006
                            --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Fournier"
                            <tom4141fournier@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > From one of Wolf's postings:
                            >
                            > "That can be attributed to British Alligence and a Mohawk War Chief
                            > named Teyoninhokarawen! I'll bet nobody has ever heard of him (trick
                            > question)?"
                            >
                            > Oh oh a trick question ...I was going to try Major John Norton ...
                            >
                            > On another note, Wolf thank you for sharing your oral traditions
                            and
                            > your thoughts. To me they are a generous contribution, impactful
                            and
                            > the cause for reflection. It is impossible to picture the
                            potential
                            > outcomes of the conflict without considering your forefathers' many
                            > significant contributions.
                            >
                            > Your ally and your servant,
                            >
                            > Tom Fournier
                            > 41st Regiment of Foot
                            >

                            Mr. Fournier...and all

                            Sir,

                            You are most welcome! Congratulations on the trick question!
                            Teyoninhokarawen is indeed Major John Norton. However, the average
                            Canadian doesn't know who he was.

                            It is our earnest hope that we do not offend anyone but rather
                            explain our history as it pertains to us. The difficult part of re-
                            enacting for us is that we are charged with maintaining and telling
                            our Nations' history as it has been passed down from those we speak
                            about. We still have a Nation and a Clan to anwser to should our
                            actions become dishonorable.

                            We have the precarious responsibility to speak on behalf of our
                            ancestors and ultimately our people. In doing so we often find
                            ourselves in a battle of our history versus someone else's version.
                            At times it can become extremely frustrating. As you witnessed at the
                            41st Lecture I expressed the notion that most of the "written"
                            historical accounts were not lies so much as they were "cultural
                            misunderstandings."

                            As you are aware you (and anyone else) are always welcome at our camp
                            to discuss our history and culture.

                            In Peace and Friendship,

                            Capt. Wolf Thomas BNA
                          • Stalin15@aol.com
                            This is an essay I wrote about on the topic of Tecumseh s body: Tecumseh: From Confusion to Legacy” The War of 1812 is often considered a forgotten war in
                            Message 13 of 25 , Feb 7, 2006
                              This is an essay I wrote about on the topic of Tecumseh's body:


                              Tecumseh: From Confusion to Legacy”
                              The War of 1812 is often considered a forgotten war in the minds of most
                              Americans. From the beginning, the war went badly for the Americans, and
                              blunders were abound on the fighting fronts. The results of the Treaty of Ghent,
                              which ended the war, maintained the “status quos,” meaning each side will
                              revert themselves to a pre-war position. Despite the apparent tie, the war
                              created many folk heroes and events that live on to this day. Andrew Jackson won
                              a huge victory at the Battle of New Orleans, which was later immortalized in
                              a song. The president’s house was burned by the British, and with a new coat
                              of paint, became the White House. Lastly, Tecumseh, the leader of an
                              Indian confederation, was killed at the Battle of the Thames (1814). While, the
                              other events and heroes have a clear-cut victor and story, the story of
                              Tecumseh is unique. The tale of his death at the hands of the Americans has been
                              conflicting and shrouded in mystery. The result of his mysterious demise
                              has turned Tecumseh into a malleable figure and propelled him from confusion to
                              legacy.
                              The death of Tecumseh has often been a controversial issue and some of the
                              sources have become politically tainted, as his death became a political warm
                              spot during the 1840 presidential campaign. However, “[t]here exists no less
                              than forty-five (perhaps considerable more!) accounts”_[1]_
                              (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn1) of his death. These differing accounts are the fuels
                              that enhance Tecumseh’s mysterious death, as the competing players (British,
                              Americans, Indians) all have differing accounts of what happened to his
                              body. This paper will look at several claims of these three nations in order to
                              examine the confusion and creditability in thier claims.
                              In order to examine the claims, some background about the Battle of the
                              Thames needs to be considered. William Henry Harrison was commanding the
                              Americans, while the British were under command of General Procter and the Indians,
                              who were allied with the British, were under the control of Tecumseh. A
                              small swamp separated the forces. The Americans had around 3000 men arranged
                              such that they could swoop in, destroy the British lines, and descend upon the
                              Indians_[2]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn2) (see appendix A). Col.
                              Richard Mentor Johnson, leader of the Kentucky mounted rifles, was directed
                              “to take [the] ground to the left and forming upon that flank to endeavor to
                              turn the right of the Indians”._[3]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn3)
                              There are differing accounts of how many troops the British and Indians
                              had. Some put it as low as 1200_[4]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn4)
                              or as high as 2500;_[5]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn5) either way
                              the British and Indians were considerably outnumbered.
                              The battle itself lasted less then thirty minutes. Colonel Johnson, who was
                              on the left, charged to the right of the British line along with other
                              mounted men. This opened the door for additional infantry to pour through. The
                              British regulars “dispirited by long continued exposure and privation made but
                              a feeble resistance”_[6]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn6) and lasted
                              only a few minutes before surrendering. With the British left broken, and
                              Proctor fleeing, the Americans dismounted and converged upon the Indians.
                              Colonel Johnson was wounded “in a very painful part-his knuckles [and] in his
                              body”_[7]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn7) whlie leading this charge,
                              but was still able to aim and kill a tall, athletic and black-eyed warrior
                              with a dark complexion._[8]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn8)
                              Additional American troops broke through the swamp on the left and formed upon the
                              Indian rear. The fighting between the Kentuckians and Indians was short,
                              close-quarters and destructive. The natives lasted only a short while and in the “
                              usual Indian way Tecumseh’s warriors scattered and faded back through the
                              swamp”_[9]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn9) leaving only thirty-three
                              dead behind on the ground. It is among these thirty-three dead that Tecumseh’s
                              legacy starts.
                              The first claim by the Americans is that Colonel Richard Mentor Johnson
                              killed Tecumseh. However, as John Sugden, a professor at Hereward College in
                              England, points out, “[the] accounts from the Johnston camp fail to establish
                              that Tecumseh was killed by the Colonel,”_[10]_
                              (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn10) as many of the accounts are contradictory and have been used to
                              further his political career. Further evidence is gathered from his
                              appearance. Tecumseh was said to have a “face oval rather then angular [. . .] his
                              eyes clear, transparent hazel [. . .] and his complexion more of a light brown
                              or tan”_[11]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn11) and not that of the
                              black-eyed warrior that Johnson claimed to have killed. Additionally, the
                              wounds of Tecumseh needs to be called into quiestion. Benson Lossing, who wrote
                              the first comprehensive story of the War of 1812, recites Johnson’s claim to
                              have killed Tecumseh outright with a pistol shot through the head._[12]_
                              (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn12) However, William Caldwell remembers
                              overtaking and passing Tecumseh after the fight and noticed that a rifle bullet
                              penetrated his breast through his hunting coat._[13]_
                              (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn13) This contradictory evidence suggests that the traditional
                              claim of Johnson killing Tecumseh is at least problematic if not unfounded.
                              Another traditional claim that has been purported is that Tecumseh was
                              disfigured and skinned by the Americans. General George Sanderson, who was a
                              captain in the American army and who knew Tecumseh, “saw the Kentucky troops in
                              the very act of cutting the skin from the body of the chief”._[14]_
                              (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn14) This cannot be taken too seriously, as other
                              evidence suggests that “[a] fallen Potawatamie brave was probably taken for
                              Tecumseh [. . .] and mutilated.”_[15]_
                              (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn15) Additional evidence, coming from Tecumseh’s Indian friend Shabeni
                              (Roundhead), in Sugden’s book, reinforces the claim that Tecumseh was, “by the side
                              of [. . .] another Indian whose skin has been taken off [and his] body has
                              not been touched”._[16]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn16) General
                              Harrison, as reported by Allan Eckert, who wrote a biography of Tecumseh, viewed
                              the mutilated body and thought, “it much too small”._[17]_
                              (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn17) This just adds to the confusion and contradictory
                              evidence serves to expand Tecumseh’s legacy. This expansion of Tecumseh’s
                              legacy is furthered, in that his body has never been discovered..
                              Many people have claimed to possess Tecumseh’s body, or that they or know
                              what happened to his body. The Sac chief, Black Hawk claims that “Tecumseh’s
                              body was taken away and buried some five miles from the battlefield”._[18]_
                              (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn18) This claim is supported by General
                              Procter’s native interpreter Clarke, who “asserted positively that Tecumseh
                              was killed, and his body was carried off by the Indians”._[19]_
                              (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn19) David Edmunds, in an article for Timeline
                              magazine, suggestes that, “Since most of the slain were buried in a mass grave near
                              the battlefield, Tecumseh probably was interred with his fallen warriors”
                              ._[20]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn20) Furthermore, Walpole Island
                              has built a memorial cairn that supposedly has Tecumseh’s bones interred in it,
                              while Sugden reports a claim that “Tecumseh’s body was presented to the
                              British [. . .] who took it to Sandwhich for burial”._[21]_
                              (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn21) The last claim, belongs to Shawnee tradition, and might
                              be the best supported claim as to the location of Tecumseh’s body. Thier
                              claim states, “No white man knows, or ever will know, where we took the body of
                              our beloved Tecumseh and buried him. Tecumseh will come again!”_[22]_
                              (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn22) As shown by the differing claims,
                              Tecumseh’s death is an enigma that probably will never be solved.
                              The final moments of Tecumseh’s life are in dispute. Nobody is quite sure
                              who killed him, what happened to his body or even where his body is located.
                              History is abound in examples of individuals who are killed in mysterious ways
                              but who are later glorified. A cursory look in the twentieth century
                              reveals examples such as John Fitzgerald Kennedy, Martin Luther King and Mahatma
                              Gandhi. Tecumseh is not unique in being glorified but because he represented a
                              minority and a dying way of life he appeals to both Natives and Americans.
                              His name and spirit lives on in myth, mysticism and in the minds of people,
                              not just on a sign.
                              All cultures need, “people who embody ideals and aspirations about whom a
                              national identity can be hung [. . .] [i]ndians need such figures too”._[23]_
                              (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn23) For America he fits the ideal
                              American mold. Throughout his life he exhibited those qualities that Americans
                              consider worthy. General Leslie Combs recalled Tecumseh saving his life at the
                              Ft. Miami Massacre and noted that he, “ [displayed] noble countenance, gallant
                              bearing [a] sonorous voice [while having] something noble and commanding in
                              all his actions”._[24]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn24) As Edmunds
                              points out these characteristics make “Tecumseh seem more ‘civilized’ and
                              therefore more acceptable”_[25]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn25) to
                              a white culture. Also, he is an American hero. Tecumseh was the underdog
                              trying to unite a people from an outside source. Americans could also relate
                              to Tecumseh as a patriot as he was advocating freedom and was willing to risk
                              death to fight for what he believed was right for the confederation. Themes
                              like those mentioned have been tangible and enduring to America since the
                              revolution.
                              Tecumseh has been exalted not only by his own tribe but by all Native
                              Americans as well. To oppressed groups whose lands are routinely lost and culture
                              systematically destroyed Tecumseh represents hope. Hope is shown in a
                              Shawnee legend that “predicted a second coming [. . .] by the flight of a star
                              across the heavens. When that day came all Indian tribes would unite”._[26]_
                              (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn26) Indeed, Tecumseh’s confederation was
                              made up of numerous Indian tribes. Tecumseh’s opposition to intertribal
                              hostilities and for promoting peace and mutual support has made Tecumseh a
                              powerful pan-Indian symbol. This symbol is enlarged through his mysticism.
                              Tecumseh was a visionary in the most literal sense. Tecumseh visited Creek
                              country to invite them to join his confederation and won many over, especially
                              after predicting the 1811 earthquake in that nation. He also, “predicted the
                              falling of stars would prove the Indians’ ability to defeat the Americans”
                              _[27]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn27) while his brother seemed to be
                              a “purveyor of mystic mumbo-jumbo.”_[28]_
                              (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn28) Especially, after the Battle of Tippecanoe (1811) when Tecumseh’s
                              bother promised medicine that would make Indians invulnerable to bullets but
                              proved to be ineffective. The visions allowed Tecumseh to evolve past his
                              brother and take control of the confederation and change it from a religious
                              movement to a political movement that appealed to all Indians no matter what
                              tribe. Tecumseh also prophesized his own death at the Battle of the Thames
                              rather then surrender to the Americans._[29]_
                              (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn29) The resurrection of Tecumseh is something that Shawnee tradition (as
                              previously stated) encourages. Thus, the duality of mysticism and myth
                              associated with Tecumseh has allowed him to enter the minds of America.
                              Tecumseh has been immortalized in popular culture and, “the aura of Tecumseh’
                              s fame has been felt on both sides of the St. Lawrence”_[30]_ (aoldb:
                              //mail/write/template.htm#_ftn30) and the Atlantic. A five act play about Tecumseh,
                              published in 1886 was regarded in it’s day as Canada’s “greatest literary
                              achievement”._[31]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn31) In America,
                              Tecumseh did not reach popularity until his death became a political issue during
                              the 1840 presidental campaign, as Richard Mentor Johnson ran for vice
                              president. A slew of “ballads, biographies, almanacs, and [. . .] novels [help]
                              put the Shawnee center stage” _[32]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn32)
                              in hearts and minds of Americans. Additionally, Tecumseh was transported
                              across the Atlantic and planted into German culture. Tecumseh literature
                              flourished during Nazi era and reinforced Hiterite ideals of “pan-ism”, uniting
                              under duress and strong central leadership. The fall of Nazism did not stop
                              Tecumseh as his story became an East German major motion picture in 1972 and, “
                              Tecumseh novels and biographies continue to leave German presses, the last in
                              1996 ”._[33]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn33) This “Tecumseh
                              Industry” has not stopped since its inception as many children biographies and
                              films have been published along with numerous novels which “testifies that
                              after nearly two hundred years Tecumseh has come to belong to all Americans”
                              _[34]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn34) , if not the world.
                              Tecumseh’s mysterious and violent death combined with the inability to
                              locate his body and surmise who killed him has given Tecumseh a universal appeal.
                              He exemplifies the European or American concept of ‘noble savage’ and many
                              of his personal qualities like gallantry, honesty, determination and
                              masculinity are easily identified with such an image._[35]_
                              (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn35) Tecumseh’s myth and mysticism has resulted in a popular
                              culture response in not only literature but film and theater as well. Tecumseh
                              sells well and the effects of the “Tecumseh industry” has given him a
                              legendary status that has been maintained far longer then Tecumseh’s confederation.
                              The red response to Tecumseh has been in terms of hope, “that it might be
                              possible in a changing and turbulent world to find permanent peace and plenty”
                              ._[36]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn36) This dream still exists
                              today as traditional Shawnee legend bolsters a second coming of Tecumseh._[37]_
                              (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn37) Perhaps, the second coming has
                              already occurred; perhaps Tecumseh was, will be and continues with everyone red or
                              white.


                              ____________________________________

                              _[1]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref1) Allan Eckert, A Sorrow in
                              Our Heart: The Life of Tecumseh. (New York: Bantam, 1992) 787.

                              _[2]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref2) Moses Dawson, Historical
                              Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                              (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 427.

                              _[3]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref3) Moses Dawson, Historical
                              Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                              (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 427.


                              _[4]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref4) Moses Dawson, Historical
                              Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                              (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 193.

                              _[5]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref5) Moses Dawson, Historical
                              Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                              (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 429.

                              _[6]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref6) Moses Dawson, Historical
                              Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                              (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 193.

                              _[7]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref7) Pioneer Scrapbook. Death of
                              Tecumseh. Bowling Green, Ohio. 1910: 60.

                              _[8]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref8) William Hutch, A Chapter
                              of the History of the War of 1812 in the Northwest. (Cincinnati: Miami
                              Printing and Publishing Company, 1872) 152.

                              _[9]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref9) John Oskison, Tecumseh and
                              his Times; The Story of a Great Indian. (1874) 218.


                              _[10]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref10) John Sugden, Tecumseh’s
                              Last Stand. (University of Oklahoma Press, 1985) 141.

                              _[11]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref11) William Hutch, A Chapter
                              of the History of the War of 1812 in the Northwest.
                              (Cincinnati: Miami Printing and Publishing Company, 1872) 113.

                              _[12]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref12) Benson Lossing,
                              Pictorial Fieldbook of the War of 1812, 1869, 2 Apr. 2004 <
                              http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~wcarr1/Lossing2/Chap26.html>.

                              _[13]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref13) Peter Clarke, Origin and
                              Traditional History of the Wyandotts and Sketches of other Indian Tribes of
                              North America. (Toronto: Hunter, Rose and Co., 1870) 114.

                              _[14]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref14) Pioneer Scrapbook. The
                              Death of Tecumseh. Bowling Green, Ohio. 1910: 60.

                              _[15]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref15) Peter Clarke, Origin and
                              Traditional History of the Wyandotts and Sketches of other Indian Tribes of
                              North America. (Toronto: Hunter, Rose and Co., 1870) 113.


                              _[16]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref16) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                              Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 377.

                              _[17]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref17) Allan Eckert, A Sorrow
                              in Our Heart: The Life of Tecumseh. (New York: Bantam Books, 1992) 792.

                              _[18]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref18) John Oskison, Tecumseh
                              and his Times; The Story of a Great Indian. (1874) 218.

                              _[19]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref19) Benson Lossing,
                              Pictorial Fieldbook of the War of 1812, 1869, 2 Apr. 2004 <
                              http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~wcarr1/Lossing2/Chap26.html>.

                              _[20]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref20) David Edmunds, “The Thin
                              Red Line: Tecumseh, the Prophet and Shawnee Resistance.” Timeline Jan. 1988:
                              17.

                              _[21]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref21) John Sugden, Tecumseh’s
                              Last Stand. (University of Oklahoma Press, 1985) 215.

                              _[22]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref22) Allan Eckert, A Sorrow in
                              Our Heart: The Life of Tecumseh. (New York: Bantam Books, 1992) 794.

                              _[23]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref23) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                              Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 390.

                              _[24]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref24) Pioneer Scrapbook.
                              Tecumseh Described. (Bowling Green, Ohio. 1910) 59.

                              _[25]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref25) David Edmunds, “The Thin
                              Red Line: Tecumseh, the Prophet and Shawnee Resistance.” Timeline Jan. 1988:
                              10.

                              _[26]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref26) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                              Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 389.

                              _[27]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref27) Mary Jane McDaniel, “
                              Tecumseh’s Visits to the Creeks,” The Alabama Review 33 (1980): 8.

                              _[28]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref28) David Edmunds, “The Thin
                              Red Line: Tecumseh, the Prophet and Shawnee Resistance.” Timeline Jan. 1988:
                              9.

                              _[29]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref29) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                              Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 379.

                              _[30]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref30) David Edmunds, “The Thin
                              Red Line: Tecumseh, the Prophet and Shawnee Resistance.” Timeline Jan. 1988:
                              12.

                              _[31]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref31) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                              Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 392.

                              _[32]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref32) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                              Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 397.

                              _[33]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref33) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                              Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 395.

                              _[34]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref34) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                              Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 400.

                              _[35]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref35) David Edmunds, Tecumseh
                              and the Quest for Indian Leadership. (Boston: Little, Brown and Company, 1984)
                              224.

                              _[36]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref36) John Oskison, Tecumseh
                              and his Times; The Story of a Great Indian. (1874) 237.

                              _[37]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref37) Allan Eckert, A Sorrow
                              in Our Heart: The Life of Tecumseh. (New York: Bantam Books, 1992) 794.




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • wolf_bna
                              I have the great honor of posting the following reply forwaded and posted with the permission of Panther Clan Mother Dark Rain Thom. For verification of her
                              Message 14 of 25 , Feb 7, 2006
                                I have the great honor of posting the following reply forwaded and
                                posted with the permission of Panther Clan Mother Dark Rain Thom. For
                                verification of her right to speak 1812 Members may search for Dark
                                Rain Thom James Alexander Thom or Random House Canada.

                                MY Dear Cedar--

                                As usual you have found the heart of the matter and stated it very
                                well. He has now found the peace he was denied while alive, in the
                                bosom of Mother Earth - as it is intended.

                                At this time of the circle of time it matters not when nor why he
                                died. We do know that at this time he is in spirit and embraced by
                                those who orginally gave him life. Creator and Mother Earth. So it
                                shall always be. Aho

                                WHERE he was buried? When he died? By what means? Those who needed to
                                know KNEW. Those who did not need to know...wonder and throw out wild
                                suppositions. Those who were with him during the battle were well
                                experienced at tending to such events as a warriors death in battle.
                                This was certainly not their first experience in battle. Those who
                                survived knew well what to do and when and how and where. IF others
                                chose to not believe it or they chose to start or perpetuate their
                                own myths...so be it.

                                It matters not. Some say well, they need to pay tribute to him at his
                                resting place. NOT. His spirit now flies with the wind, shines with
                                the milky way, traverses the universe. He and his spirit is no longer
                                bound by PLACE. A tobacco offering, a prayer all reach him thru
                                immortal means.

                                I am comforted to know no curious, shallow thinking persons claiming
                                an entitlement to such sacred knowledge, can disturb him.

                                Thank you for speaking so well for our beloved departed warrior.
                                Love
                                Aunty Dark Rain

                                Single use by permission has been granted to:
                                Cedar Heart
                                also known as
                                r patrick nichols
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