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TECUMSEH'S Bones

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  • lalozon
    From: Gordon Deans ... The explanation was that Tecumseh s body was retrieved from the battlefield under the cover of darkness by
    Message 1 of 25 , Jan 31, 2006
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      From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>

      "... The explanation was that Tecumseh's body was retrieved from the
      battlefield under the cover of darkness by his brother and mother who
      attempted to carry it to the Mohawk Village on the Grand River ..."

      L2: Why would they take a Shawnee worrier to a Mohawk village further away
      than a closer village.?
      Possibly this may be a question that should be answered by Wolf Thomas


      .........

      See TECUMSEH'S Bones, Guy St-Denis, copyright McGill-Queen's University
      Press 2005.

      L2: Do you have an ISBN?
      ............

      It is now time for us to come together and repay our debt to Tecumseh by
      raising a more fitting monument and statue to him on the battlefield.

      L2: There is a plaque to Tecumseh at the battlefield.

      The Kent Military Re-enactment Society (Chatham Ontario - 27 US
      Infantry) tried a number of years ago to have a life size bronze raised in
      Tecumseh honour but only accomplished a couple of 2' bronze sculptures. A
      few of us purchased prints of Tecumseh face from the sculpture
    • Gordon Deans
      See TECUMSEH S Bones, Guy St-Denis, copyright McGill-Queen s University Press 2005, ISBN 0-7735-2843-I. The suggestion that Tecumseh was buried in London came
      Message 2 of 25 , Jan 31, 2006
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        See TECUMSEH'S Bones, Guy St-Denis, copyright McGill-Queen's University
        Press 2005, ISBN 0-7735-2843-I.

        The suggestion that Tecumseh was buried in London came from natives at the
        Grand River settlements around 1855. The theory was that everyone was
        retreating to Burlington and passed through London and the Mohawk Village
        (Brantford). Except that they would have followed the Commissioners' Road
        (along the river), four kilometres to the south of the Queens Avenue -
        English Street site because the Governor's Road had not yet been continued
        through to London in 1813. This was but one story that was disproved in the
        book.

        Yes, there is a good monument to Tecumseh on the battlefield, but do you not
        agree that he deserves something more prominent beside it like an obelisk
        and statue? Although he might have been tactically unsuccessful (except at
        Detroit), his role was strategically successful in misdirecting American
        resources to the western frontier for two years which probably saved the
        Canadas.

        Gord Deans

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "lalozon" <lalozon@...>
        To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 1:57 PM
        Subject: [WarOf1812] TECUMSEH'S Bones


        > From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>
        >
        > "... The explanation was that Tecumseh's body was retrieved from the
        > battlefield under the cover of darkness by his brother and mother who
        > attempted to carry it to the Mohawk Village on the Grand River ..."
        >
        > L2: Why would they take a Shawnee worrier to a Mohawk village further away
        > than a closer village.?
        > Possibly this may be a question that should be answered by Wolf
        Thomas
        >
        >
        > .........
        >
        > See TECUMSEH'S Bones, Guy St-Denis, copyright McGill-Queen's University
        > Press 2005.
        >
        > L2: Do you have an ISBN?
        > ............
        >
        > It is now time for us to come together and repay our debt to Tecumseh by
        > raising a more fitting monument and statue to him on the battlefield.
        >
        > L2: There is a plaque to Tecumseh at the battlefield.
        >
        > The Kent Military Re-enactment Society (Chatham Ontario - 27 US
        > Infantry) tried a number of years ago to have a life size bronze raised in
        > Tecumseh honour but only accomplished a couple of 2' bronze sculptures. A
        > few of us purchased prints of Tecumseh face from the sculpture
        >
      • lalozon
        From: Gordon Deans Yes, there is a good monument to Tecumseh on the battlefield, but do you not agree that he deserves something
        Message 3 of 25 , Jan 31, 2006
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          From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>

          Yes, there is a good monument to Tecumseh on the battlefield, but do you
          not agree that he deserves something more prominent beside it like an
          obelisk and statue? Although he might have been tactically unsuccessful
          (except at
          Detroit), his role was strategically successful in misdirecting American
          resources to the western frontier for two years which probably saved the
          Canadas.


          Gord
          To answer your question,

          Yes I agree that Tecumseh deserves a monument statue at Chillicothe Ohio,
          Amherstburg Ontario , Windsor Ontario , Chatham Ontario and at the
          battlefield near Thamesville Ontario.


          Now reality sinks in ...
          on Government property you need government permission, on Municipal
          property you need Municipal permission. Then you need the statue (it should
          be historically correct and not the Victorian version).

          Then you need the mount and construction.

          Who is going to do all the work getting the money to do this?

          I was involved in the endeavour in Chatham and it led no where ...

          been there ... done it!

          Good luck Sir.
        • Peter Monahan
          Also, Mr Lozon, this is ONE of the many supposed grave sights for the great chief. Clearly he isn t buried in all of them and that one is, with apologies to
          Message 4 of 25 , Jan 31, 2006
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            Also, Mr Lozon, this is ONE of the many supposed grave sights for the great chief. Clearly he isn't buried in all of them and that one is, with apologies to Mr. Dean, one of the less likely possibilities.

            It is a good read indeed.

            Peter Monahan, BSM
            ============================================================
          • toddjune
            Here is a newspaper article regarding the subject. http://www.spiritofbothwell.com/story.php?id=196192 Tecumseh s Bones: author on the trail of a Canadian
            Message 5 of 25 , Jan 31, 2006
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              Here is a newspaper article regarding the subject.

              http://www.spiritofbothwell.com/story.php?id=196192


              Tecumseh's Bones: author on the trail of a Canadian legend


              Larissa Brittan
              Wednesday November 16, 2005

              Legend says that no one will ever know where Shawnee Chief
              Tecumseh's bones are buried. But Guy St-Denis thinks he might have
              solved the mystery anyway.
              On Nov. 8, the London-area author held a reading and book-signing
              for his work, Tecumseh's Bones, which was released in May. In it, he
              describes his theory of where the famous chief's remains could be.
              "In 1845, Benjamin Springer was sent by the government to do a
              survey of Plank Road - what is now Longwoods Road. He decided to
              plot the exact location of Tecumseh's death. In his survey notes and
              on his map, he indicates where the location is, and it's Lot 4, Gore
              of Zone Township," St-Denis said.
              The farm on Lot 4 still stands, just a little northeast of the
              Tecumseh Monument on the highway between Bothwell and Thamesville.
              St-Denis theorizes that the farmer who bought Lot 4 in the mid-
              1800s - James Dickson - found a grove of carved walnut trees with
              six skeletons buried beneath them. One of these skeletons, St-Denis
              says, must be Tecumseh's.
              St-Denis presented to over 50 people at the Jim Kish Theatre in
              Bothwell's Town Hall building last Tuesday after an invitation from
              the Bothwell-Zone and District Historical Society.
              He became interested in the mystery of Tecumseh's remains after
              visiting Fairfield Museum with his family in 1972.
              "The curator mentioned that Tecumseh had been killed and nobody knew
              what happened to his body. It just stuck with me. I began collecting
              tidbits and after 15 years of research, I was able to produce my
              manuscript," St-Denis said.
              St-Denis is currently working to recruit surveyors and
              archaeologists to further examine the Lot 4 farm. He says that
              historically, Tecumseh came to the Battle of the Longwoods between
              two swamps on the Lot 4 property, and surveys of the modern land
              could narrow down where the chief made his last stand and give even
              further information on where his bones could be buried.
            • wolf_bna
              ... who ... further away ... Wolf Thomas Seko All, In answer to the question as to the whereabouts of Tecumseh s body the answer is quite simply: in the bosom
              Message 6 of 25 , Jan 31, 2006
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                --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "lalozon" <lalozon@n...> wrote:
                >
                > From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@s...>
                >
                > "... The explanation was that Tecumseh's body was retrieved from the
                > battlefield under the cover of darkness by his brother and mother
                who
                > attempted to carry it to the Mohawk Village on the Grand River ..."
                >
                > L2: Why would they take a Shawnee worrier to a Mohawk village
                further away
                > than a closer village.?
                > Possibly this may be a question that should be answered by
                Wolf Thomas

                Seko All,

                In answer to the question as to the whereabouts of Tecumseh's body
                the answer is quite simply: "in the bosom of Mother Earth."

                There are several stories as to his final "burial site." Some believe
                it is in Moravian Town, Walpole Island, Kettle Point, Stoney Point,
                Grand River Six Nations Territory, etc., etc. In our oral tradition
                there was a conspiracy of all of the British Allied Nations to build
                and maintain a grave site for Tecumseh. These sites are still kept to
                this day. The reason behind it was so NOBODY would know for sure
                where his resting place is. At Six Nations Grand River we still have
                his site and it is still tended to.

                In short...NOBODY knows the exact location. Not even the people. The
                Shawnee do have a conection with us at Grand River. The Prophet
                himself with a number of his people came here immediately after the
                death of Tecumseh.

                When Tecumseh fell the Shawnee were scattered to the four directions.
                Many came to Grand River knowing that they would be protected from
                the Americans that blocked their way back home. We still have Shawnee
                and Deleware on our Territory to this day.

                I cannot speak for the Shawnee however, I can speak about my people's
                involvement in the War of 1812. I'd first like to point out that I in
                noway mean any disrespect towards Tecumseh or the Shawnee Nation.

                I have read comments about how Tecumseh unified many Nations to ally
                with the British. I must say that the concept was in place long
                before Tecumseh walked the earth. Two thousand years ago a Weyndot
                (Huron) named Tekanawita (The Peacemaker), sought to unify all of the
                Nations in North and South America. His endevour resulted in the Five
                Nations Confederacy (his Nations traditional enemies), and the first
                TRULY democratic government in the world. Pontiac of the Ottawa
                Nation successfully unified many Nations at the close of the French-
                Indian War. Joseph Brant of the Mohawk Nation allied many of the
                Nations during the American Revolutionary War. Many of them were also
                traditional enemies.

                Tecumseh and his allied Nations fought throughout the Western
                Frontier. They covered the States of Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, etc.
                and the south-western most part of Ontario. He was killed almost
                within the first year of the war.

                The Six Nations British Allies had ALWAYS been faithful allies to the
                Crown since 1664 as we are still today. Our ancestor's area of
                opperations extended from Tecumseh's south-western portions of
                Ontario to Quebec. Their battle honors include Queenston Hieghts,
                Stoney Creek, Beaver Dams and Chrysler's Farm just to name a few.
                Some of those battles were MAJOR turning points in the war. The
                history books and historians like to believe that the Battle of
                Chippawa was their last major battle. They seem to omit a very
                important battle that took place at Grand River on November, 6, 1814.
                This was to be the last battle fought on Canadain soil in the war of
                1812. When Brigadier General Duncan Macarthur had marched to the west
                side of the Grand River near Mohawk Village, he and his 750 men were
                routed back to Michigan never to return to Canada again. Tecumseh was
                NOT the reason that the Six Nations British Allies joined the fight.
                That can be attributed to British Alligence and a Mohawk War Chief
                named Teyoninhokarawen! I'll bet nobody has ever heard of him (trick
                question)?

                In closing I'd like to mention again that I am in no way intending to
                disrespect Tecumseh or the Shawnee Nation. I do however, wonder why
                it is that my ancestors sacrifices always seem to be forgotten!
              • Bill Sharrette
                I have a good Wyandot friend on Walpol Island (located in the St. Clair River between Canada and the US) who claims Tecumseh s remains were brought to the
                Message 7 of 25 , Feb 1, 2006
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                  I have a good Wyandot friend on Walpol Island (located in the St. Clair River between Canada and the US) who claims Tecumseh's remains were brought to the Island after he battle, and he now resides under a wooden porch of a 150 year old house. His argument is convincing in part, but myths abound.

                  Bill Sharrette

                  toddjune <toddjune@...> wrote:
                  Here is a newspaper article regarding the subject.

                  http://www.spiritofbothwell.com/story.php?id=196192


                  Tecumseh's Bones: author on the trail of a Canadian legend


                  Larissa Brittan
                  Wednesday November 16, 2005

                  Legend says that no one will ever know where Shawnee Chief
                  Tecumseh's bones are buried. But Guy St-Denis thinks he might have
                  solved the mystery anyway.
                  On Nov. 8, the London-area author held a reading and book-signing
                  for his work, Tecumseh's Bones, which was released in May. In it, he
                  describes his theory of where the famous chief's remains could be.
                  "In 1845, Benjamin Springer was sent by the government to do a
                  survey of Plank Road - what is now Longwoods Road. He decided to
                  plot the exact location of Tecumseh's death. In his survey notes and
                  on his map, he indicates where the location is, and it's Lot 4, Gore
                  of Zone Township," St-Denis said.
                  The farm on Lot 4 still stands, just a little northeast of the
                  Tecumseh Monument on the highway between Bothwell and Thamesville.
                  St-Denis theorizes that the farmer who bought Lot 4 in the mid-
                  1800s - James Dickson - found a grove of carved walnut trees with
                  six skeletons buried beneath them. One of these skeletons, St-Denis
                  says, must be Tecumseh's.
                  St-Denis presented to over 50 people at the Jim Kish Theatre in
                  Bothwell's Town Hall building last Tuesday after an invitation from
                  the Bothwell-Zone and District Historical Society.
                  He became interested in the mystery of Tecumseh's remains after
                  visiting Fairfield Museum with his family in 1972.
                  "The curator mentioned that Tecumseh had been killed and nobody knew
                  what happened to his body. It just stuck with me. I began collecting
                  tidbits and after 15 years of research, I was able to produce my
                  manuscript," St-Denis said.
                  St-Denis is currently working to recruit surveyors and
                  archaeologists to further examine the Lot 4 farm. He says that
                  historically, Tecumseh came to the Battle of the Longwoods between
                  two swamps on the Lot 4 property, and surveys of the modern land
                  could narrow down where the chief made his last stand and give even
                  further information on where his bones could be buried.







                  The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

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                • lalozon
                  From: Peter Monahan Also, Mr Lozon, this is ONE of the many supposed grave sights for the great chief. Mr. Monahan, Sergeant
                  Message 8 of 25 , Feb 1, 2006
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                    From: "Peter Monahan" <petemonahan@...>


                    Also, Mr Lozon, this is ONE of the many supposed grave sights for the great
                    chief.






                    Mr. Monahan, Sergeant Major, CFNA,


                    Having lived in Chatham, Ontario for most of my life. I have heard
                    that Tecumseh is buried in a great number of sites in the area.

                    I have even seen two tomb stones supposed to be his.

                    I believe the warriors took his body and buried it secretly and 'NO ONE'
                    knows the exact spot where he is buried.


                    BTW: Tecumseh was not a Chief, according to research ... he was a warrior, a
                    great orator but not a Chief

                    May I suggest you talk to Wolf Thomas about this and Mr. Norton


                    Yrs.,
                    L2
                    PS: Were you not at Wolf's Lecture? ... he talked about Tecumseh and Norton.
                  • lalozon
                    From: toddjune Here is a newspaper article regarding the subject .... Legend says that no one will ever know where Shawnee Chief
                    Message 9 of 25 , Feb 1, 2006
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                      From: "toddjune" <toddjune@...>

                      " Here is a newspaper article regarding the subject .... Legend says that no
                      one will ever know where Shawnee Chief Tecumseh's bones are buried. But Guy
                      St-Denis thinks he might have solved the mystery anyway..."



                      Thank you Toddjune,

                      For the information of those who do not live in Southwestern Ontario like
                      the Squire ...

                      Mark Dickerson, Field Commander of the 1st (Royal Scots) Regt - Light
                      Company, lived on the battlefield.

                      Mark's father farmed the battlefield and if you drive along #2 Highway
                      (Longwoods Road) you can see the battlefield across the road from the Park
                      where the monument is today.

                      The Fairfield Museum down the road has artefacts found on the field
                      visit
                      http://www.uccanlonconf.org/divisions/F%20&%20A/fairfld.htm


                      Yrs.,
                      L2
                    • Peter Monahan
                      Mr Lozon You know how some people speak before they think? Well I type faster than I think. (not hard, I know). I know knew Tecumseh was not a chief, any
                      Message 10 of 25 , Feb 1, 2006
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                        Mr Lozon

                        You know how some people speak before they think? Well' I type faster than I think. (not hard, I know). I know'knew Tecumseh was not a chief, any more than he was a British brigadier general, many paintings to the contrary. Yes, I heard our brother Wolf's speech. Tecumseh was not the only nor even necessarily the greatest leader of native troops in 1812-14, but he did have a huge impact on the popular memory of the war and as a beacon, I believe, for Native resistance to white cultural and politicaldomination

                        In answer to another writer, the bokk inquestion seems to dispel the legend that T's bones are under the offical monument on Walpole Island, never mind under a porch. I like Wolf's answer: "He sleeps in Mother Earth". Where and which bits of someone's skeleton are under any given memorial rock is far less important than the fact that so many people felt him worthy of commemoration and still do!

                        Peter Monahan, Sgt Major, BNA Brigade
                        ============================================================
                        From: "lalozon" <lalozon@...>
                        Date: 2006/02/01 Wed PM 02:10:46 EST
                        To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                        Subject: [WarOf1812] TECUMSEH'S Bones

                        From: "Peter Monahan" <petemonahan@...>


                        Also, Mr Lozon, this is ONE of the many supposed grave sights for the great
                        chief.






                        Mr. Monahan, Sergeant Major, CFNA,


                        Having lived in Chatham, Ontario for most of my life. I have heard
                        that Tecumseh is buried in a great number of sites in the area.

                        I have even seen two tomb stones supposed to be his.

                        I believe the warriors took his body and buried it secretly and 'NO ONE'
                        knows the exact spot where he is buried.


                        BTW: Tecumseh was not a Chief, according to research ... he was a warrior, a
                        great orator but not a Chief

                        May I suggest you talk to Wolf Thomas about this and Mr. Norton


                        Yrs.,
                        L2
                        PS: Were you not at Wolf's Lecture? ... he talked about Tecumseh and Norton.














                        The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                        Unit Contact information for North America:
                        ---------------------------------
                        Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                        http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                        American Forces Unit Listing
                        http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                        Yahoo! Groups Links






                        ============================================================
                      • lalozon
                        From: Peter Monahan Mr Lozon I know knew Tecumseh was not a chief, any more than he was a British brigadier general, many
                        Message 11 of 25 , Feb 1, 2006
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                          From: "Peter Monahan" <petemonahan@...>

                          Mr Lozon


                          I know'knew Tecumseh was not a chief, any more than he was a British
                          brigadier general, many paintings to the contrary.



                          Sergeant Major,

                          I knew you knew (did I say that correctly) and I also knew that you
                          were at Wolf's speech ...
                          I just thot I would cement the fact that Tecumseh was not a Chief.


                          I hear that the a British Brigadier General thingie was due to an incident
                          at Fort Ameherstburg (Malden).

                          "Tecumseh had given Brock a woven sash so Brock gave him a scarlet officer's
                          coat.
                          On leaving the building Tecumseh was seen talking to a warrior who was
                          wearing a higher rank scarlet coat then Tecumseh so Brock hearing of this he
                          gave him a British Brigadier General's coat so he would not be out ranked"
                          .... (ole wife's tale?!? ... you be the judge.)

                          Also Tecumseh was reported to be a Freemason ... for a man who hated whites
                          as much as he did ... I doubt he would enter an organisation such as the
                          Masons


                          He was a great man and that is when the stories start .....

                          Yrs.,
                          L2
                        • Gordon Deans
                          Larry, Peter; ... Company, ... It is not new to me now that you both knew what you know, but it would be news to me if either of you knows if Mark Dickerson
                          Message 12 of 25 , Feb 1, 2006
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                            Larry, Peter;
                            >
                            > Mark Dickerson, Field Commander of the 1st (Royal Scots) Regt - Light
                            Company,
                            > lived on the battlefield.
                            >
                            It is not new to me now that you both knew what you know, but it would be
                            news to me if either of you knows if Mark Dickerson has any great relics to
                            show for his time on the battlefield? Also, do you know which lot that his
                            father's farm was on?

                            Gord Deans
                          • lalozon
                            From: Gordon Deans Larry, Peter; Gord as noted in my original email NOTE: Peter Twist is not a subscriber of this WarOf1812 Yahoo
                            Message 13 of 25 , Feb 1, 2006
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                              From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>

                              Larry, Peter;






                              Gord

                              as noted in my original email

                              NOTE: Peter Twist is not a subscriber of this WarOf1812 Yahoo Group




                              as far as

                              " if Mark Dickerson has any great relics to show for his time on the
                              battlefield? "

                              and

                              "... do you know which lot that his father's farm was on?


                              You would have to contact Mark directly regarding this information



                              Yrs.,
                              L2
                            • Casey Coleman
                              Hello everyone... I usually don t reply to the things written in the yahoogroup, for I find it interesting just to sit back and read what is written by
                              Message 14 of 25 , Feb 1, 2006
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                                Hello everyone... I usually don't reply to the things written in the yahoogroup, for I find it interesting just to sit back and read what is written by everyone else. However, being a first nations person, I feel that I should say something on the topic of Tecumseh's remains... I have heard many stories of what happened to Tecumseh after he died. Many people believe that he was buried shortly after which, as most of you know, there was no time to. The story that I am more inclined to believe would have been that his body was passed on from village to village, tribe to tribe, to finally rest where the American's could not get what little remained of him. I wouldn't think that he would pass into Mohawk hands, due to the fact that he had few followers from the band.



                                Case "Masta" C.

                                we will always remember you
                                Jay "Masta" J.

                                ---------------------------------

                                What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • wolf_bna
                                ... the yahoogroup, for I find it interesting just to sit back and read what is written by everyone else. However, being a first nations person, I feel that
                                Message 15 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
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                                  --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Casey Coleman <colemancase@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hello everyone... I usually don't reply to the things written in
                                  the yahoogroup, for I find it interesting just to sit back and read
                                  what is written by everyone else. However, being a first nations
                                  person, I feel that I should say something on the topic of
                                  Tecumseh's remains...I wouldn't think that he would pass into Mohawk
                                  hands, due to the fact that he had few followers from the band.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Case "Masta" C.
                                  >
                                  > we will always remember you
                                  > Jay "Masta" J.
                                  >
                                  > ---------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                                  Seko rontatatekena,
                                  Skennen ken

                                  Understand that I mean no disrespect in my response to your post.

                                  You mention that you are a "First Nations Person" and as such you
                                  should be aware of the burial conspiracy that I mentioned in my
                                  previous post (as it is common knowledge among our people).

                                  You also slam the Mohawk Nation's involvement in "handling Tecumseh's
                                  body" in regards to what you think. You base your thought on "the
                                  fact that he (Tecumseh) had few followers from the (Mohawk) band."

                                  Tecumseh did not have to recruit followers from the Six Nations
                                  because the Six Nations had already been allied to eachother for one
                                  thousand eight hundred years. As I explained in my previous post the
                                  Peacemaker Tekanawita (a Weyndot or Huron) had already set out to
                                  bring all of the Nations of North and South America together as one
                                  people 1,800 years before Tecumseh.

                                  Tecumseh and Mohawk War Chief Teyoninhokarawen were good friends.
                                  Approximately 50 Grand River warriors fought with Tecumseh in his
                                  area of opperations. After Tecumseh was killed at the Thames many of
                                  his followers took refuge at Grand River including Tenskwatawa (the
                                  prophet) his brother. Some of the Shawnee and the other western
                                  Nations decendants still live here at Grand River to this day.

                                  In order to safeguard Tecumseh's remains ALL of the British allied
                                  Nations in the vicinity took part in a conspiracy to keep the
                                  location secret forever. This was accomplished by having
                                  several "grave sites" provided in several communities throughout
                                  various locations in the region. We also have one here at Grand River.

                                  In closing I'd like to mention that we do not refer to ourselves as
                                  bands! A band provides music for patrons in a bar on week-ends. We
                                  are Sovereign peoples and refer to ourselves as Nations.

                                  Of coarse you don't have to take my word for anything that I have
                                  stated. Therefore, I offer to you my personal invitation to come to
                                  Grand River Territory to speak to the Six Nations people or to the
                                  people of the Shawnee Nation the next time they come to visit us.

                                  If you are interested please let me know and I will make all of the
                                  necessary arangements.

                                  Niawen ikhsa's,
                                  Okwaho Ronnatanonnha
                                • CalvertMck@aol.com
                                  In a message dated 2/2/2006 7:56:17 AM Central Standard Time, britishnativeallies@rogers.com writes: Tecumseh did not have to recruit followers from the Six
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
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                                    In a message dated 2/2/2006 7:56:17 AM Central Standard Time,
                                    britishnativeallies@... writes:


                                    Tecumseh did not have to recruit followers from the Six Nations
                                    because the Six Nations had already been allied to eachother for one
                                    thousand eight hundred years. As I explained in my previous post the
                                    Peacemaker Tekanawita (a Weyndot or Huron) had already set out to
                                    bring all of the Nations of North and South America together as one
                                    people 1,800 years before Tecumseh.
                                    If the Nations leaders had it to do all over again, do you think the Weyndot
                                    would be successful in bringing all of the Nations, north and south together
                                    to explore unity past, present and future? Could this have changed the
                                    history of the discovery process?

                                    Tecumseh and Mohawk War Chief Teyoninhokarawen were good friends.
                                    Approximately 50 Grand River warriors fought with Tecumseh in his
                                    area of opperations. After Tecumseh was killed at the Thames many of
                                    his followers took refuge at Grand River including Tenskwatawa (the
                                    prophet) his brother. Some of the Shawnee and the other western
                                    Nations decendants still live here at Grand River to this day.

                                    If the friendship of the leaders were strong enough and the warriors for
                                    Grand River were still interested in the same area of operations - maybe the
                                    historical reports of Tecumseh were not reported correctly and Tecumseh were
                                    mearly wounded and not killed? Maybe the death was of slow nature, and due to
                                    complications of his wounds - this would have provided Tecumseh to bestow what
                                    made him sucessful over his nation to his best warriors to enable them to
                                    continue his legacy - but a price worth prolonging the agony of a slow and
                                    painful death due to complication and infection of his wounds. And the shot that
                                    he took in the rear end which was not accurately documented in history as his
                                    "pain in the ass" and thus the historical beginnings of such sematics.
                                    Strictly opinion of course and not a historical representation, but a a dillusion
                                    of some of his followers.

                                    In order to safeguard Tecumseh's remains ALL of the British allied
                                    Nations in the vicinity took part in a conspiracy to keep the
                                    location secret forever. This was accomplished by having
                                    several "grave sites" provided in several communities throughout
                                    various locations in the region. We also have one here at Grand River.

                                    Grand Ri ver and the many other "grave sites" should be honored to host the
                                    remains of Tecumseh's - I am sure some have altered their plans to make the
                                    grave site more accomodating for the "resting place", however Tecumseh had not
                                    requested or conveyed this to the newer warriors in the nation. However, if
                                    Tecumseh were to request this in todays nations the request would be honored
                                    to accomodate the needs or plans modified to insure his worthy warrior site
                                    needs were met.

                                    Strictly opinions and postulations of a non-posting lurker.






                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • yawors1@uwindsor.ca
                                    I must confess I was stunned to read the following: maybe the historical reports of Tecumseh were not reported correctly and Tecumseh were mearly wounded and
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
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                                      I must confess I was stunned to read the following:

                                      "maybe the historical reports of Tecumseh were not reported correctly and
                                      Tecumseh were
                                      mearly wounded and not killed? Maybe the death was of slow nature, and
                                      due to
                                      complications of his wounds - this would have provided Tecumseh to bestow
                                      what
                                      made him sucessful over his nation to his best warriors to enable them to

                                      continue his legacy - but a price worth prolonging the agony of a slow
                                      and
                                      painful death due to complication and infection of his wounds. And the
                                      shot that
                                      he took in the rear end which was not accurately documented in history as
                                      his
                                      "pain in the ass" and thus the historical beginnings of such sematics.
                                      Strictly opinion of course and not a historical representation, but a a
                                      dillusion
                                      of some of his followers."

                                      I have never seen any of this suggested in any source, primary or
                                      secondary, that I have come across so far. Are these musings just
                                      supposition, based on wishful thinking? If there are serious sources for
                                      these statements, I'm sure we'd all like to hear about them.

                                      Harrison was quite sure Tecumseh had been killed. He knew Tecumseh by
                                      sight. So how could he have been so sure, if he didn't see the body? I
                                      haven't read Harrison's papers so I don't know the particulars of what he
                                      had to say on this - can anybody enlighten us?

                                      There are primary sources that involve officers of the 41st Regiment who
                                      were captured at Moraviantown, who were shown a number of bodies after the
                                      battle and asked to verify the identities of any they knew. All these
                                      officers knew Tecumseh well by sight.

                                      Not to be unduly gruesome, but they state they saw Tecumseh's body, and it
                                      had been most foully mutilated, presumably by "souvenir hunters". It is
                                      difficult in the year 2006 to get yourself in the frame of mind where you
                                      can understand the motivation for somebody wanting a razor strop or
                                      tobacco pouch made out of human skin. But there you go - it happened in
                                      frontier warfare.

                                      If the officers' first-hand accounts are true, and there is no apparent
                                      reason why they would be lying, then it would seem very unlikely that
                                      Tecumseh's remains could be recovered until the Americans withrew towards
                                      Detroit. This withdrawal did happen fairly quickly, Harrison withdrew
                                      towards Detroit the day after the battle. In the interim, were these
                                      bodies buried on the field? I believe the British casualties were buried,
                                      but were the Native Warriors who had been killed left out to rot? We must
                                      recognize the racism that pervaded "civilized" attitudes to "savages" at
                                      the time of the War of 1812 - and long after, unfortunately.

                                      I haven't run across anything yet that details what happened to these
                                      bodies after the British officers saw them, then were led off towards
                                      eventual captivity in Ohio and Kentucky. So it's not impossible that a
                                      body could have been recovered a day or two after the battle, whether by
                                      digging up all the new graves until the body was found, or finding it
                                      still lying on the field. Either way, the body must have been in rough
                                      shape. The point here is that Tecumseh's body - dead or alive - was
                                      apparently not carried back to "safety" (from disrespectful acts of
                                      American frontiersmen, presumably) by Native Warriors as they retreated
                                      from the field. At best, it was recovered a day or two later, after
                                      having been foully mutilated.

                                      Hero myths are actually a very interesting field of study. It is
                                      instructive to compare some recurring stories about great figures. One
                                      story is the idea that the hero doesn't die, but is off somewhere sleeping
                                      until needed again (King Arthur, Sir Francis Drake, etc.).
                                      The psychology behind all such stories seems clearer if you stand back and
                                      look at them as a group. Put simply, a profound sense of loss leads to a
                                      certain amount of wishful thinking.

                                      Jim Yaworsky
                                      41st

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • wolf_bna
                                      As I am not Shawnee I cannot speak on their behalf. I can however relay what I have been told by them as well as my Nation s own oral history. I have never
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
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                                        As I am not Shawnee I cannot speak on their behalf. I can however
                                        relay what I have been told by them as well as my Nation's own oral
                                        history.

                                        I have never heard any such story that claimed Tecumseh was carried
                                        from the field alive only to die at some other time and location. It
                                        is not within our oral history nor what I've heard from the Shawnee,
                                        the Lenape, or the Chippawas of the Themes, Walpole Island, Stoney
                                        and Kettle Points etc.

                                        The oral history has always been clear that he was killed in the
                                        battle and his body was recovered. The military tradition (especially
                                        among the U.S. Army's Rangers) of recovering the bodies of their
                                        fellow soldiers from the field can trace it's roots to this Native
                                        trait. If the bodies were removed by the American or British soldiers
                                        and even buried by them, they still would have been recovered by the
                                        Natives. I am not at liberty to detail the ceremony we call Ohkiweh
                                        or "The Feast Of The Dead" but, it involves the remains of our
                                        ancestors. It is just as important as the Condolence at death.

                                        At the Battle of Oriskany during the American Revolutionary War, the
                                        bodies of ALL of the Seneca and Mohawk Warriors were recovered and
                                        given the proper ceremonies to send them to the Spirit World. An
                                        extremely important ritual among Native people. The bodies of the
                                        Tryon County Militia still lay where they fell on the battle field to
                                        this day.

                                        The "burial site conspiracy" was devised by the Nations to detour
                                        anyone from finding and desecrating his resting place.

                                        For example Joseph Brant's remains are not buried at the Mohawk
                                        Chapel. His tomb was desecrated at the turn of the 20th century and
                                        his remains were taken and are lost forever. This is what the people
                                        were trying to prevent back then.
                                      • lalozon
                                        From: I must confess I was stunned to read the following: maybe the historical reports of .. Tecumseh were mearly wounded and not
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
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                                          From: <yawors1@...>

                                          " I must confess I was stunned to read the following: "maybe the historical
                                          reports of .. Tecumseh were mearly wounded and not killed? ... Harrison was
                                          quite sure Tecumseh had been killed. He knew Tecumseh by
                                          sight ...they state they saw Tecumseh's body, and it had been most foully
                                          mutilated, presumably by "souvenir hunters".
                                          .................

                                          From: "wolf_bna" <britishnativeallies@...>

                                          I have never heard any such story that claimed Tecumseh was carried
                                          from the field alive only to die at some other time and location.






                                          I agree with Mr. Yaworsky and Mr. Thomas


                                          Members of Ken Hall's 'Kentucky Light Dragoons' who have visited the
                                          Kentucky museums and have photos of a captured 41st Regiment drum, a lantern
                                          shade supposedly made from a piece of Tecumseh's back skin, etc., relics
                                          from the Battle of the Thames brought back to Kentucky by members of the
                                          Kentucky Forces who fought at the Battle of the Thames.

                                          They have also researched documents that reports the 'Kentucky Light
                                          Dragoons' and USA Forces victory at the Battle of the Thames and that
                                          Tecumseh was killed and identified as the Shawnee known as 'Tecumthe'.



                                          James Alexander Thom states that his book "PANTHER IN THE SKY"
                                          ISBN:0-345-30596-5 which chronicles the life of Tecumseh, was researched
                                          from original documents and Shawnee oral history which state Tecumseh was
                                          killed during the Battle of the Thames.

                                          As does John Sugden author of "TECUMSEH'S LAST STAND" ISBN: 0-8061-1944-6



                                          Altho reports verify for sure that Elvis is alive and works at a gas station
                                          in Hamtramik Michigan ....



                                          Yrs.,
                                          L2
                                        • Peter Monahan
                                          Mr Yaworski My reaction to the post you quote was the same as yours: shock. It was less than coherent and perhaps, to be charitable, an attempt to be
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
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                                            Mr Yaworski

                                            My reaction to the post you quote was the same as yours: shock. It was less than coherent and perhaps, to be charitable, an attempt to be humourous. as really "out there" speculation, I would suggest that it is an unprofitable avenue in which to invest much further discussion.

                                            Peter Monahan, Sgt Major, CFNA
                                            ============================================================


                                            " I must confess I was stunned to read the following: "maybe the historical reports of .. Tecumseh were mearly wounded and not killed? ...

                                            Harrison was quite sure Tecumseh had been killed. He knew Tecumseh by
                                            sight ...they state they saw Tecumseh's body, and it had been most foully mutilated, presumably by "souvenir hunters".
                                            .................

                                            From: "wolf_bna" <britishnativeallies@...>

                                            I have never heard any such story that claimed Tecumseh was carried
                                            from the field alive only to die at some other time and location.






                                            I agree with Mr. Yaworsky and Mr. Thomas


                                            Members of Ken Hall's 'Kentucky Light Dragoons' who have visited the
                                            Kentucky museums and have photos of a captured 41st Regiment drum, a lantern
                                            shade supposedly made from a piece of Tecumseh's back skin, etc., relics
                                            from the Battle of the Thames brought back to Kentucky by members of the
                                            Kentucky Forces who fought at the Battle of the Thames.

                                            They have also researched documents that reports the 'Kentucky Light
                                            Dragoons' and USA Forces victory at the Battle of the Thames and that
                                            Tecumseh was killed and identified as the Shawnee known as 'Tecumthe'.



                                            James Alexander Thom states that his book "PANTHER IN THE SKY"
                                            ISBN:0-345-30596-5 which chronicles the life of Tecumseh, was researched
                                            from original documents and Shawnee oral history which state Tecumseh was
                                            killed during the Battle of the Thames.

                                            As does John Sugden author of "TECUMSEH'S LAST STAND" ISBN: 0-8061-1944-6



                                            Altho reports verify for sure that Elvis is alive and works at a gas station
                                            in Hamtramik Michigan ....



                                            Yrs.,
                                            L2





                                            The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                                            Unit Contact information for North America:
                                            ---------------------------------
                                            Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                                            http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                                            American Forces Unit Listing
                                            http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                                            Yahoo! Groups Links






                                            ============================================================
                                          • Scott McDonald
                                            This web page deals with several first hand accounts of Tecumseh s death. http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Cove/8286/tdeath.html enjoy Scott McD.
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Feb 2, 2006
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                                              This web page deals with several "first hand" accounts of Tecumseh's death.
                                              http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Cove/8286/tdeath.html
                                              enjoy

                                              Scott McD.

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Tom Fournier
                                              From one of Wolf s postings: That can be attributed to British Alligence and a Mohawk War Chief named Teyoninhokarawen! I ll bet nobody has ever heard of him
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Feb 4, 2006
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                                                From one of Wolf's postings:

                                                "That can be attributed to British Alligence and a Mohawk War Chief
                                                named Teyoninhokarawen! I'll bet nobody has ever heard of him (trick
                                                question)?"

                                                Oh oh a trick question ...I was going to try Major John Norton ...

                                                On another note, Wolf thank you for sharing your oral traditions and
                                                your thoughts. To me they are a generous contribution, impactful and
                                                the cause for reflection. It is impossible to picture the potential
                                                outcomes of the conflict without considering your forefathers' many
                                                significant contributions.

                                                Your ally and your servant,

                                                Tom Fournier
                                                41st Regiment of Foot
                                              • wolf_bna
                                                ... and ... and ... potential ... Mr. Fournier...and all Sir, You are most welcome! Congratulations on the trick question! Teyoninhokarawen is indeed Major
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Feb 4, 2006
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                                                  --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Fournier"
                                                  <tom4141fournier@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > From one of Wolf's postings:
                                                  >
                                                  > "That can be attributed to British Alligence and a Mohawk War Chief
                                                  > named Teyoninhokarawen! I'll bet nobody has ever heard of him (trick
                                                  > question)?"
                                                  >
                                                  > Oh oh a trick question ...I was going to try Major John Norton ...
                                                  >
                                                  > On another note, Wolf thank you for sharing your oral traditions
                                                  and
                                                  > your thoughts. To me they are a generous contribution, impactful
                                                  and
                                                  > the cause for reflection. It is impossible to picture the
                                                  potential
                                                  > outcomes of the conflict without considering your forefathers' many
                                                  > significant contributions.
                                                  >
                                                  > Your ally and your servant,
                                                  >
                                                  > Tom Fournier
                                                  > 41st Regiment of Foot
                                                  >

                                                  Mr. Fournier...and all

                                                  Sir,

                                                  You are most welcome! Congratulations on the trick question!
                                                  Teyoninhokarawen is indeed Major John Norton. However, the average
                                                  Canadian doesn't know who he was.

                                                  It is our earnest hope that we do not offend anyone but rather
                                                  explain our history as it pertains to us. The difficult part of re-
                                                  enacting for us is that we are charged with maintaining and telling
                                                  our Nations' history as it has been passed down from those we speak
                                                  about. We still have a Nation and a Clan to anwser to should our
                                                  actions become dishonorable.

                                                  We have the precarious responsibility to speak on behalf of our
                                                  ancestors and ultimately our people. In doing so we often find
                                                  ourselves in a battle of our history versus someone else's version.
                                                  At times it can become extremely frustrating. As you witnessed at the
                                                  41st Lecture I expressed the notion that most of the "written"
                                                  historical accounts were not lies so much as they were "cultural
                                                  misunderstandings."

                                                  As you are aware you (and anyone else) are always welcome at our camp
                                                  to discuss our history and culture.

                                                  In Peace and Friendship,

                                                  Capt. Wolf Thomas BNA
                                                • Stalin15@aol.com
                                                  This is an essay I wrote about on the topic of Tecumseh s body: Tecumseh: From Confusion to Legacy” The War of 1812 is often considered a forgotten war in
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Feb 7, 2006
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                                                    This is an essay I wrote about on the topic of Tecumseh's body:


                                                    Tecumseh: From Confusion to Legacy”
                                                    The War of 1812 is often considered a forgotten war in the minds of most
                                                    Americans. From the beginning, the war went badly for the Americans, and
                                                    blunders were abound on the fighting fronts. The results of the Treaty of Ghent,
                                                    which ended the war, maintained the “status quos,” meaning each side will
                                                    revert themselves to a pre-war position. Despite the apparent tie, the war
                                                    created many folk heroes and events that live on to this day. Andrew Jackson won
                                                    a huge victory at the Battle of New Orleans, which was later immortalized in
                                                    a song. The president’s house was burned by the British, and with a new coat
                                                    of paint, became the White House. Lastly, Tecumseh, the leader of an
                                                    Indian confederation, was killed at the Battle of the Thames (1814). While, the
                                                    other events and heroes have a clear-cut victor and story, the story of
                                                    Tecumseh is unique. The tale of his death at the hands of the Americans has been
                                                    conflicting and shrouded in mystery. The result of his mysterious demise
                                                    has turned Tecumseh into a malleable figure and propelled him from confusion to
                                                    legacy.
                                                    The death of Tecumseh has often been a controversial issue and some of the
                                                    sources have become politically tainted, as his death became a political warm
                                                    spot during the 1840 presidential campaign. However, “[t]here exists no less
                                                    than forty-five (perhaps considerable more!) accounts”_[1]_
                                                    (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn1) of his death. These differing accounts are the fuels
                                                    that enhance Tecumseh’s mysterious death, as the competing players (British,
                                                    Americans, Indians) all have differing accounts of what happened to his
                                                    body. This paper will look at several claims of these three nations in order to
                                                    examine the confusion and creditability in thier claims.
                                                    In order to examine the claims, some background about the Battle of the
                                                    Thames needs to be considered. William Henry Harrison was commanding the
                                                    Americans, while the British were under command of General Procter and the Indians,
                                                    who were allied with the British, were under the control of Tecumseh. A
                                                    small swamp separated the forces. The Americans had around 3000 men arranged
                                                    such that they could swoop in, destroy the British lines, and descend upon the
                                                    Indians_[2]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn2) (see appendix A). Col.
                                                    Richard Mentor Johnson, leader of the Kentucky mounted rifles, was directed
                                                    “to take [the] ground to the left and forming upon that flank to endeavor to
                                                    turn the right of the Indians”._[3]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn3)
                                                    There are differing accounts of how many troops the British and Indians
                                                    had. Some put it as low as 1200_[4]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn4)
                                                    or as high as 2500;_[5]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn5) either way
                                                    the British and Indians were considerably outnumbered.
                                                    The battle itself lasted less then thirty minutes. Colonel Johnson, who was
                                                    on the left, charged to the right of the British line along with other
                                                    mounted men. This opened the door for additional infantry to pour through. The
                                                    British regulars “dispirited by long continued exposure and privation made but
                                                    a feeble resistance”_[6]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn6) and lasted
                                                    only a few minutes before surrendering. With the British left broken, and
                                                    Proctor fleeing, the Americans dismounted and converged upon the Indians.
                                                    Colonel Johnson was wounded “in a very painful part-his knuckles [and] in his
                                                    body”_[7]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn7) whlie leading this charge,
                                                    but was still able to aim and kill a tall, athletic and black-eyed warrior
                                                    with a dark complexion._[8]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn8)
                                                    Additional American troops broke through the swamp on the left and formed upon the
                                                    Indian rear. The fighting between the Kentuckians and Indians was short,
                                                    close-quarters and destructive. The natives lasted only a short while and in the “
                                                    usual Indian way Tecumseh’s warriors scattered and faded back through the
                                                    swamp”_[9]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn9) leaving only thirty-three
                                                    dead behind on the ground. It is among these thirty-three dead that Tecumseh’s
                                                    legacy starts.
                                                    The first claim by the Americans is that Colonel Richard Mentor Johnson
                                                    killed Tecumseh. However, as John Sugden, a professor at Hereward College in
                                                    England, points out, “[the] accounts from the Johnston camp fail to establish
                                                    that Tecumseh was killed by the Colonel,”_[10]_
                                                    (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn10) as many of the accounts are contradictory and have been used to
                                                    further his political career. Further evidence is gathered from his
                                                    appearance. Tecumseh was said to have a “face oval rather then angular [. . .] his
                                                    eyes clear, transparent hazel [. . .] and his complexion more of a light brown
                                                    or tan”_[11]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn11) and not that of the
                                                    black-eyed warrior that Johnson claimed to have killed. Additionally, the
                                                    wounds of Tecumseh needs to be called into quiestion. Benson Lossing, who wrote
                                                    the first comprehensive story of the War of 1812, recites Johnson’s claim to
                                                    have killed Tecumseh outright with a pistol shot through the head._[12]_
                                                    (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn12) However, William Caldwell remembers
                                                    overtaking and passing Tecumseh after the fight and noticed that a rifle bullet
                                                    penetrated his breast through his hunting coat._[13]_
                                                    (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn13) This contradictory evidence suggests that the traditional
                                                    claim of Johnson killing Tecumseh is at least problematic if not unfounded.
                                                    Another traditional claim that has been purported is that Tecumseh was
                                                    disfigured and skinned by the Americans. General George Sanderson, who was a
                                                    captain in the American army and who knew Tecumseh, “saw the Kentucky troops in
                                                    the very act of cutting the skin from the body of the chief”._[14]_
                                                    (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn14) This cannot be taken too seriously, as other
                                                    evidence suggests that “[a] fallen Potawatamie brave was probably taken for
                                                    Tecumseh [. . .] and mutilated.”_[15]_
                                                    (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn15) Additional evidence, coming from Tecumseh’s Indian friend Shabeni
                                                    (Roundhead), in Sugden’s book, reinforces the claim that Tecumseh was, “by the side
                                                    of [. . .] another Indian whose skin has been taken off [and his] body has
                                                    not been touched”._[16]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn16) General
                                                    Harrison, as reported by Allan Eckert, who wrote a biography of Tecumseh, viewed
                                                    the mutilated body and thought, “it much too small”._[17]_
                                                    (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn17) This just adds to the confusion and contradictory
                                                    evidence serves to expand Tecumseh’s legacy. This expansion of Tecumseh’s
                                                    legacy is furthered, in that his body has never been discovered..
                                                    Many people have claimed to possess Tecumseh’s body, or that they or know
                                                    what happened to his body. The Sac chief, Black Hawk claims that “Tecumseh’s
                                                    body was taken away and buried some five miles from the battlefield”._[18]_
                                                    (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn18) This claim is supported by General
                                                    Procter’s native interpreter Clarke, who “asserted positively that Tecumseh
                                                    was killed, and his body was carried off by the Indians”._[19]_
                                                    (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn19) David Edmunds, in an article for Timeline
                                                    magazine, suggestes that, “Since most of the slain were buried in a mass grave near
                                                    the battlefield, Tecumseh probably was interred with his fallen warriors”
                                                    ._[20]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn20) Furthermore, Walpole Island
                                                    has built a memorial cairn that supposedly has Tecumseh’s bones interred in it,
                                                    while Sugden reports a claim that “Tecumseh’s body was presented to the
                                                    British [. . .] who took it to Sandwhich for burial”._[21]_
                                                    (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn21) The last claim, belongs to Shawnee tradition, and might
                                                    be the best supported claim as to the location of Tecumseh’s body. Thier
                                                    claim states, “No white man knows, or ever will know, where we took the body of
                                                    our beloved Tecumseh and buried him. Tecumseh will come again!”_[22]_
                                                    (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn22) As shown by the differing claims,
                                                    Tecumseh’s death is an enigma that probably will never be solved.
                                                    The final moments of Tecumseh’s life are in dispute. Nobody is quite sure
                                                    who killed him, what happened to his body or even where his body is located.
                                                    History is abound in examples of individuals who are killed in mysterious ways
                                                    but who are later glorified. A cursory look in the twentieth century
                                                    reveals examples such as John Fitzgerald Kennedy, Martin Luther King and Mahatma
                                                    Gandhi. Tecumseh is not unique in being glorified but because he represented a
                                                    minority and a dying way of life he appeals to both Natives and Americans.
                                                    His name and spirit lives on in myth, mysticism and in the minds of people,
                                                    not just on a sign.
                                                    All cultures need, “people who embody ideals and aspirations about whom a
                                                    national identity can be hung [. . .] [i]ndians need such figures too”._[23]_
                                                    (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn23) For America he fits the ideal
                                                    American mold. Throughout his life he exhibited those qualities that Americans
                                                    consider worthy. General Leslie Combs recalled Tecumseh saving his life at the
                                                    Ft. Miami Massacre and noted that he, “ [displayed] noble countenance, gallant
                                                    bearing [a] sonorous voice [while having] something noble and commanding in
                                                    all his actions”._[24]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn24) As Edmunds
                                                    points out these characteristics make “Tecumseh seem more ‘civilized’ and
                                                    therefore more acceptable”_[25]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn25) to
                                                    a white culture. Also, he is an American hero. Tecumseh was the underdog
                                                    trying to unite a people from an outside source. Americans could also relate
                                                    to Tecumseh as a patriot as he was advocating freedom and was willing to risk
                                                    death to fight for what he believed was right for the confederation. Themes
                                                    like those mentioned have been tangible and enduring to America since the
                                                    revolution.
                                                    Tecumseh has been exalted not only by his own tribe but by all Native
                                                    Americans as well. To oppressed groups whose lands are routinely lost and culture
                                                    systematically destroyed Tecumseh represents hope. Hope is shown in a
                                                    Shawnee legend that “predicted a second coming [. . .] by the flight of a star
                                                    across the heavens. When that day came all Indian tribes would unite”._[26]_
                                                    (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn26) Indeed, Tecumseh’s confederation was
                                                    made up of numerous Indian tribes. Tecumseh’s opposition to intertribal
                                                    hostilities and for promoting peace and mutual support has made Tecumseh a
                                                    powerful pan-Indian symbol. This symbol is enlarged through his mysticism.
                                                    Tecumseh was a visionary in the most literal sense. Tecumseh visited Creek
                                                    country to invite them to join his confederation and won many over, especially
                                                    after predicting the 1811 earthquake in that nation. He also, “predicted the
                                                    falling of stars would prove the Indians’ ability to defeat the Americans”
                                                    _[27]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn27) while his brother seemed to be
                                                    a “purveyor of mystic mumbo-jumbo.”_[28]_
                                                    (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn28) Especially, after the Battle of Tippecanoe (1811) when Tecumseh’s
                                                    bother promised medicine that would make Indians invulnerable to bullets but
                                                    proved to be ineffective. The visions allowed Tecumseh to evolve past his
                                                    brother and take control of the confederation and change it from a religious
                                                    movement to a political movement that appealed to all Indians no matter what
                                                    tribe. Tecumseh also prophesized his own death at the Battle of the Thames
                                                    rather then surrender to the Americans._[29]_
                                                    (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn29) The resurrection of Tecumseh is something that Shawnee tradition (as
                                                    previously stated) encourages. Thus, the duality of mysticism and myth
                                                    associated with Tecumseh has allowed him to enter the minds of America.
                                                    Tecumseh has been immortalized in popular culture and, “the aura of Tecumseh’
                                                    s fame has been felt on both sides of the St. Lawrence”_[30]_ (aoldb:
                                                    //mail/write/template.htm#_ftn30) and the Atlantic. A five act play about Tecumseh,
                                                    published in 1886 was regarded in it’s day as Canada’s “greatest literary
                                                    achievement”._[31]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn31) In America,
                                                    Tecumseh did not reach popularity until his death became a political issue during
                                                    the 1840 presidental campaign, as Richard Mentor Johnson ran for vice
                                                    president. A slew of “ballads, biographies, almanacs, and [. . .] novels [help]
                                                    put the Shawnee center stage” _[32]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn32)
                                                    in hearts and minds of Americans. Additionally, Tecumseh was transported
                                                    across the Atlantic and planted into German culture. Tecumseh literature
                                                    flourished during Nazi era and reinforced Hiterite ideals of “pan-ism”, uniting
                                                    under duress and strong central leadership. The fall of Nazism did not stop
                                                    Tecumseh as his story became an East German major motion picture in 1972 and, “
                                                    Tecumseh novels and biographies continue to leave German presses, the last in
                                                    1996 ”._[33]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn33) This “Tecumseh
                                                    Industry” has not stopped since its inception as many children biographies and
                                                    films have been published along with numerous novels which “testifies that
                                                    after nearly two hundred years Tecumseh has come to belong to all Americans”
                                                    _[34]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn34) , if not the world.
                                                    Tecumseh’s mysterious and violent death combined with the inability to
                                                    locate his body and surmise who killed him has given Tecumseh a universal appeal.
                                                    He exemplifies the European or American concept of ‘noble savage’ and many
                                                    of his personal qualities like gallantry, honesty, determination and
                                                    masculinity are easily identified with such an image._[35]_
                                                    (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn35) Tecumseh’s myth and mysticism has resulted in a popular
                                                    culture response in not only literature but film and theater as well. Tecumseh
                                                    sells well and the effects of the “Tecumseh industry” has given him a
                                                    legendary status that has been maintained far longer then Tecumseh’s confederation.
                                                    The red response to Tecumseh has been in terms of hope, “that it might be
                                                    possible in a changing and turbulent world to find permanent peace and plenty”
                                                    ._[36]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn36) This dream still exists
                                                    today as traditional Shawnee legend bolsters a second coming of Tecumseh._[37]_
                                                    (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftn37) Perhaps, the second coming has
                                                    already occurred; perhaps Tecumseh was, will be and continues with everyone red or
                                                    white.


                                                    ____________________________________

                                                    _[1]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref1) Allan Eckert, A Sorrow in
                                                    Our Heart: The Life of Tecumseh. (New York: Bantam, 1992) 787.

                                                    _[2]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref2) Moses Dawson, Historical
                                                    Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                                                    (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 427.

                                                    _[3]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref3) Moses Dawson, Historical
                                                    Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                                                    (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 427.


                                                    _[4]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref4) Moses Dawson, Historical
                                                    Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                                                    (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 193.

                                                    _[5]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref5) Moses Dawson, Historical
                                                    Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                                                    (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 429.

                                                    _[6]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref6) Moses Dawson, Historical
                                                    Narrative of the Civil and Military Services of William H. Harrison.
                                                    (Cincinnati: Advertiser Office, 1824) 193.

                                                    _[7]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref7) Pioneer Scrapbook. Death of
                                                    Tecumseh. Bowling Green, Ohio. 1910: 60.

                                                    _[8]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref8) William Hutch, A Chapter
                                                    of the History of the War of 1812 in the Northwest. (Cincinnati: Miami
                                                    Printing and Publishing Company, 1872) 152.

                                                    _[9]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref9) John Oskison, Tecumseh and
                                                    his Times; The Story of a Great Indian. (1874) 218.


                                                    _[10]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref10) John Sugden, Tecumseh’s
                                                    Last Stand. (University of Oklahoma Press, 1985) 141.

                                                    _[11]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref11) William Hutch, A Chapter
                                                    of the History of the War of 1812 in the Northwest.
                                                    (Cincinnati: Miami Printing and Publishing Company, 1872) 113.

                                                    _[12]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref12) Benson Lossing,
                                                    Pictorial Fieldbook of the War of 1812, 1869, 2 Apr. 2004 <
                                                    http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~wcarr1/Lossing2/Chap26.html>.

                                                    _[13]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref13) Peter Clarke, Origin and
                                                    Traditional History of the Wyandotts and Sketches of other Indian Tribes of
                                                    North America. (Toronto: Hunter, Rose and Co., 1870) 114.

                                                    _[14]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref14) Pioneer Scrapbook. The
                                                    Death of Tecumseh. Bowling Green, Ohio. 1910: 60.

                                                    _[15]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref15) Peter Clarke, Origin and
                                                    Traditional History of the Wyandotts and Sketches of other Indian Tribes of
                                                    North America. (Toronto: Hunter, Rose and Co., 1870) 113.


                                                    _[16]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref16) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                                                    Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 377.

                                                    _[17]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref17) Allan Eckert, A Sorrow
                                                    in Our Heart: The Life of Tecumseh. (New York: Bantam Books, 1992) 792.

                                                    _[18]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref18) John Oskison, Tecumseh
                                                    and his Times; The Story of a Great Indian. (1874) 218.

                                                    _[19]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref19) Benson Lossing,
                                                    Pictorial Fieldbook of the War of 1812, 1869, 2 Apr. 2004 <
                                                    http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~wcarr1/Lossing2/Chap26.html>.

                                                    _[20]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref20) David Edmunds, “The Thin
                                                    Red Line: Tecumseh, the Prophet and Shawnee Resistance.” Timeline Jan. 1988:
                                                    17.

                                                    _[21]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref21) John Sugden, Tecumseh’s
                                                    Last Stand. (University of Oklahoma Press, 1985) 215.

                                                    _[22]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref22) Allan Eckert, A Sorrow in
                                                    Our Heart: The Life of Tecumseh. (New York: Bantam Books, 1992) 794.

                                                    _[23]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref23) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                                                    Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 390.

                                                    _[24]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref24) Pioneer Scrapbook.
                                                    Tecumseh Described. (Bowling Green, Ohio. 1910) 59.

                                                    _[25]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref25) David Edmunds, “The Thin
                                                    Red Line: Tecumseh, the Prophet and Shawnee Resistance.” Timeline Jan. 1988:
                                                    10.

                                                    _[26]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref26) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                                                    Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 389.

                                                    _[27]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref27) Mary Jane McDaniel, “
                                                    Tecumseh’s Visits to the Creeks,” The Alabama Review 33 (1980): 8.

                                                    _[28]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref28) David Edmunds, “The Thin
                                                    Red Line: Tecumseh, the Prophet and Shawnee Resistance.” Timeline Jan. 1988:
                                                    9.

                                                    _[29]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref29) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                                                    Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 379.

                                                    _[30]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref30) David Edmunds, “The Thin
                                                    Red Line: Tecumseh, the Prophet and Shawnee Resistance.” Timeline Jan. 1988:
                                                    12.

                                                    _[31]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref31) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                                                    Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 392.

                                                    _[32]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref32) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                                                    Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 397.

                                                    _[33]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref33) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                                                    Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 395.

                                                    _[34]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref34) John Sugden, Tecumseh: A
                                                    Life. (New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1998) 400.

                                                    _[35]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref35) David Edmunds, Tecumseh
                                                    and the Quest for Indian Leadership. (Boston: Little, Brown and Company, 1984)
                                                    224.

                                                    _[36]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref36) John Oskison, Tecumseh
                                                    and his Times; The Story of a Great Indian. (1874) 237.

                                                    _[37]_ (aoldb://mail/write/template.htm#_ftnref37) Allan Eckert, A Sorrow
                                                    in Our Heart: The Life of Tecumseh. (New York: Bantam Books, 1992) 794.




                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • wolf_bna
                                                    I have the great honor of posting the following reply forwaded and posted with the permission of Panther Clan Mother Dark Rain Thom. For verification of her
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Feb 7, 2006
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                                                      I have the great honor of posting the following reply forwaded and
                                                      posted with the permission of Panther Clan Mother Dark Rain Thom. For
                                                      verification of her right to speak 1812 Members may search for Dark
                                                      Rain Thom James Alexander Thom or Random House Canada.

                                                      MY Dear Cedar--

                                                      As usual you have found the heart of the matter and stated it very
                                                      well. He has now found the peace he was denied while alive, in the
                                                      bosom of Mother Earth - as it is intended.

                                                      At this time of the circle of time it matters not when nor why he
                                                      died. We do know that at this time he is in spirit and embraced by
                                                      those who orginally gave him life. Creator and Mother Earth. So it
                                                      shall always be. Aho

                                                      WHERE he was buried? When he died? By what means? Those who needed to
                                                      know KNEW. Those who did not need to know...wonder and throw out wild
                                                      suppositions. Those who were with him during the battle were well
                                                      experienced at tending to such events as a warriors death in battle.
                                                      This was certainly not their first experience in battle. Those who
                                                      survived knew well what to do and when and how and where. IF others
                                                      chose to not believe it or they chose to start or perpetuate their
                                                      own myths...so be it.

                                                      It matters not. Some say well, they need to pay tribute to him at his
                                                      resting place. NOT. His spirit now flies with the wind, shines with
                                                      the milky way, traverses the universe. He and his spirit is no longer
                                                      bound by PLACE. A tobacco offering, a prayer all reach him thru
                                                      immortal means.

                                                      I am comforted to know no curious, shallow thinking persons claiming
                                                      an entitlement to such sacred knowledge, can disturb him.

                                                      Thank you for speaking so well for our beloved departed warrior.
                                                      Love
                                                      Aunty Dark Rain

                                                      Single use by permission has been granted to:
                                                      Cedar Heart
                                                      also known as
                                                      r patrick nichols
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