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Re: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37 Rebellion?"

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  • suthren@magma.ca
    In 1987 a re-enactment of the 1837 Rebellion was staged at St. Denis, where a party of mixed francophone and anglophone Canadian rebels led by an anglophone
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 5, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      In 1987 a re-enactment of the 1837 Rebellion was staged at St. Denis, where
      a party of mixed francophone and anglophone Canadian rebels led by an
      anglophone (Dr. Wolfred Nelson), and many veterans of the War of 1812,
      defeated a British line regiment in a sharp fight and sent them retiring in
      some disorder (The Canadian rebels picked up and cared for the abandoned
      Brit wounded after the battle. When the Brits returned some months later
      they reclaimed the convalescing wounded and then burned out the farmers who
      had sheltered them). The re-enactment aroused so many latent passions that a
      fist fight broke out between some of the 'British' and 'rebel' re-enactors.
      A red coat is still not welcome in the Richelieu Valley, and with good
      reason.

      Vic Suthren
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Peter Monahan" <petemonahan@...>
      To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 5:31 PM
      Subject: Re: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
      Rebellion?"


      > Gord
      >
      > For the open field part we'd have to go a leedle furder north - like King
      City! (Ironically, or perhaps not, "King City" - 40km/25miles n of C of
      Kn.Universe - is mostly fields.)
      >
      > Ian - was the timing thing a reference to our election, or just the
      weather? :7)
      >
      > P
      > ============================================================
      > From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>
      > Date: 2005/12/05 Mon PM 04:39:01 EST
      > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
      > Subject: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
      Rebellion?"
      >
      > Peter;
      >
      > What a great scenario. Imagine the entire line scattering across an open
      field shouting "Run away! Run away!". And think of the public crowd, all
      better armed than the re-enactors, with some of them getting carried away
      and "poppin' caps in the air" (or worse).
      >
      > The re-enactment would go down in history as the "Yonge Street Races".
      Hoo-Aahhh! I love the smell of black powder in the morning.
      >
      > Isn't it great to be Canadian.
      >
      > Gord Deans, Royal Navy [1812-14]
      > In winter quarters on the Upper Thames, Upper Canada
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: peter monahan
      > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:40 PM
      > Subject: [WarOf1812] On This Day in Canadian Military History
      > ...
      > "Battle of Yonge Street. A group of "revolutionaries" are marching down
      Yonge Street in Toronto and are met by Loyalist volunteers who begin firing
      at them. When some of the rebels kneel to fire their weapons, the men at
      the back believe they have been shot and flee in panic, prompting the
      collapse of the entire rebel column. It is an auspicious beginning to
      William Lyon Mackenzie's rebellion in Upper Canada."
      > ...
      > Peter Monahan
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
      square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
      square miles...
      >
      > Unit Contact information for North America:
      > ---------------------------------
      > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
      > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
      >
      > American Forces Unit Listing
      > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ============================================================
      >
      >
      > Peter Monahan
      > petermonahan@...
      > 705-435-0953 home
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
      square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
      square miles...
      >
      > Unit Contact information for North America:
      > ---------------------------------
      > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
      > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
      >
      > American Forces Unit Listing
      > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --
      > No virus found in this incoming message.
      > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
      > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date: 05/12/05
      >
      >
    • John Ogden
      All- In yet another moment of American ignorance, what sparked this rebellion? I presume that this was part of a larger campaign about which we south of the
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 5, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        All-
        In yet another moment of American ignorance, what sparked this
        rebellion? I presume that this was part of a larger campaign about which we
        south of the 49th Parallel are not taught.

        Yours,
        John Ogden


        On 12/5/05, suthren@... <suthren@...> wrote:
        >
        > In 1987 a re-enactment of the 1837 Rebellion was staged at St. Denis,
        > where
        > a party of mixed francophone and anglophone Canadian rebels led by an
        > anglophone (Dr. Wolfred Nelson), and many veterans of the War of 1812,
        > defeated a British line regiment in a sharp fight and sent them retiring
        > in
        > some disorder (The Canadian rebels picked up and cared for the abandoned
        > Brit wounded after the battle. When the Brits returned some months later
        > they reclaimed the convalescing wounded and then burned out the farmers
        > who
        > had sheltered them). The re-enactment aroused so many latent passions that
        > a
        > fist fight broke out between some of the 'British' and 'rebel'
        > re-enactors.
        > A red coat is still not welcome in the Richelieu Valley, and with good
        > reason.
        >
        > Vic Suthren
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Peter Monahan" <petemonahan@...>
        > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 5:31 PM
        > Subject: Re: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
        > Rebellion?"
        >
        >
        > > Gord
        > >
        > > For the open field part we'd have to go a leedle furder north - like
        > King
        > City! (Ironically, or perhaps not, "King City" - 40km/25miles n of C of
        > Kn.Universe - is mostly fields.)
        > >
        > > Ian - was the timing thing a reference to our election, or just the
        > weather? :7)
        > >
        > > P
        > > ============================================================
        > > From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>
        > > Date: 2005/12/05 Mon PM 04:39:01 EST
        > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
        > > Subject: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
        > Rebellion?"
        > >
        > > Peter;
        > >
        > > What a great scenario. Imagine the entire line scattering across an
        > open
        > field shouting "Run away! Run away!". And think of the public crowd, all
        > better armed than the re-enactors, with some of them getting carried away
        > and "poppin' caps in the air" (or worse).
        > >
        > > The re-enactment would go down in history as the "Yonge Street Races".
        > Hoo-Aahhh! I love the smell of black powder in the morning.
        > >
        > > Isn't it great to be Canadian.
        > >
        > > Gord Deans, Royal Navy [1812-14]
        > > In winter quarters on the Upper Thames, Upper Canada
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: peter monahan
        > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:40 PM
        > > Subject: [WarOf1812] On This Day in Canadian Military History
        > > ...
        > > "Battle of Yonge Street. A group of "revolutionaries" are marching
        > down
        > Yonge Street in Toronto and are met by Loyalist volunteers who begin
        > firing
        > at them. When some of the rebels kneel to fire their weapons, the men at
        > the back believe they have been shot and flee in panic, prompting the
        > collapse of the entire rebel column. It is an auspicious beginning to
        > William Lyon Mackenzie's rebellion in Upper Canada."
        > > ...
        > > Peter Monahan
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
        > of
        > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
        > of
        > square miles...
        > >
        > > Unit Contact information for North America:
        > > ---------------------------------
        > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
        > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
        > >
        > > American Forces Unit Listing
        > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ============================================================
        > >
        > >
        > > Peter Monahan
        > > petermonahan@...
        > > 705-435-0953 home
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
        > of
        > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
        > of
        > square miles...
        > >
        > > Unit Contact information for North America:
        > > ---------------------------------
        > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
        > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
        > >
        > > American Forces Unit Listing
        > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --
        > > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
        > > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date:
        > 05/12/05
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
        > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
        > square miles...
        >
        > Unit Contact information for North America:
        > ---------------------------------
        > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
        > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
        >
        > American Forces Unit Listing
        > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        --
        Fortuna audentes favorit.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • ray hobbs
        Vic et al: I am sure the members of our Regiment involved will not mind me passing this on. Two of our members have Francophone heritage, and their father was
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 5, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          Vic et al:
          I am sure the members of our Regiment involved will not mind me
          passing this on. Two of our members have Francophone heritage, and
          their father was quite shocked that they had joined a British redcoated
          reenactment regiment.
          Such predilections run deep in Canadian culture. Yet, the "Canadians"
          (meaning in 1812 parlance French Canadians) fought well and with
          courage against invading American forces - viz Chateauguay etc., etc.
          Ray Hobbs
          41st CO
          Hamilton UC




          On Monday, December 5, 2005, at 05:43 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:

          > In 1987 a re-enactment of the 1837 Rebellion was staged at St. Denis,
          > where
          > a party of mixed francophone and anglophone Canadian rebels led by an
          > anglophone (Dr. Wolfred Nelson), and many veterans of the War of 1812,
          > defeated a British line regiment in a sharp fight and sent them
          > retiring in
          > some disorder (The Canadian rebels picked up and cared for the
          > abandoned
          > Brit wounded after the battle. When the Brits returned some months
          > later
          > they reclaimed the convalescing wounded and then burned out the
          > farmers who
          > had sheltered them). The re-enactment aroused so many latent passions
          > that a
          > fist fight broke out between some of the 'British' and 'rebel'
          > re-enactors.
          > A red coat is still not welcome in the Richelieu Valley, and with good
          > reason.
          >
          > Vic Suthren
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Peter Monahan" <petemonahan@...>
          > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 5:31 PM
          > Subject: Re: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
          > Rebellion?"
          >
          >
          > > Gord
          > >
          > > For the open field part we'd have to go a leedle furder north - like
          > King
          > City!  (Ironically, or perhaps not, "King City" - 40km/25miles n of C
          > of
          > Kn.Universe - is mostly fields.)
          > >
          > > Ian - was the timing thing a reference to our election, or just the
          > weather?  :7)
          > >
          > > P
          > > ============================================================
          > > From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>
          > > Date: 2005/12/05 Mon PM 04:39:01 EST
          > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
          > > Subject: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
          > Rebellion?"
          > >
          > > Peter;
          > >
          > > What a great scenario.  Imagine the entire line scattering across an
          > open
          > field shouting "Run away! Run away!".  And think of the public crowd,
          > all
          > better armed than the re-enactors, with some of them getting carried
          > away
          > and "poppin' caps in the air" (or worse).
          > >
          > > The re-enactment would go down in history as the "Yonge Street
          > Races".
          > Hoo-Aahhh!  I love the smell of black powder in the morning.
          > >
          > > Isn't it great to be Canadian.
          > >
          > > Gord Deans, Royal Navy [1812-14]
          > > In winter quarters on the Upper Thames, Upper Canada
          > >   ----- Original Message -----
          > >   From: peter monahan
          > >   To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
          > >   Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:40 PM
          > >   Subject: [WarOf1812] On This Day in Canadian Military History
          > >   ...
          > >   "Battle of Yonge Street.  A group of "revolutionaries" are
          > marching down
          > Yonge Street in Toronto and are met by Loyalist volunteers who begin
          > firing
          > at them.  When some of the rebels kneel to fire their weapons, the men
          > at
          > the back believe they have been shot and flee in panic, prompting the
          > collapse of the entire rebel column.  It is an auspicious beginning to
          > William Lyon Mackenzie's rebellion in Upper Canada."
          > >   ...
          > >   Peter Monahan
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
          > hundreds of
          > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
          > THOUSANDS of
          > square miles...
          > >
          > > Unit Contact information for North America:
          > >    ---------------------------------
          > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          > >
          > > American Forces Unit Listing
          > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ============================================================
          > >
          > >
          > > Peter Monahan
          > > petermonahan@...
          > > 705-435-0953 home
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
          > hundreds of
          > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
          > THOUSANDS of
          > square miles...
          > >
          > > Unit Contact information for North America:
          > >    ---------------------------------
          > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          > >
          > > American Forces Unit Listing
          > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --
          > > No virus found in this incoming message.
          > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          > > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date:
          > 05/12/05
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
          > of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
          > THOUSANDS of square miles...
          >
          > Unit Contact information for North America:
          >    ---------------------------------
          > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          >
          > American Forces Unit Listing
          > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
          >
          >
          <image.tiff>
          >
          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          >
          > +  Visit your group "WarOf1812" on the web.
          >  
          > +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          >  WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >  
          > +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          >
          >
          <image.tiff>
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Peter Monahan
          Vic Yes, the Lower Canadian rebellion was a horse of a different colour entirely - pitched battles, buildings cleared at bayonet point and artillery shelling
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 5, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Vic

            Yes, the Lower Canadian rebellion was a horse of a different colour entirely - pitched battles, buildings cleared at bayonet point and artillery shelling chruches as I recall. I can see both why it would be re-enacted and why it still provokes a passionate response!
            Something else for our francophone brethern to remember to our discredit, I'm afraid.

            John

            In a nut shell, both Upper and Lower Canada had representative Assemblies,and British appointed Lt-Governors who in turn appointed the Councils (read "cabints") which made the real decisions. The Governors were not responsible to the assemblies - couldn't be replaced except at London's pleasure - and the Councils represented landed and wealthy interests, not the population at large. In LC (Quebec), of course made wprse by the fact that the Council were either English or "Anglo-loving" Frenchmen.

            The "rebels" were in fact making modest demands even by the standards of the time - "representative government" - and would likely have gotten it in another few years if they hadn't chosen to march instead of just editoralizing and speechifying. (My sympathy is with them, BTW, I'd have marched too!).

            Some of the rebels escaped to the US and raided back into Canada in the summer of'38, raising tensions between the 2 countries before they were suppressed. As it was, a number of the French were killed in battle, 12 were hanged and 60 transported to Australia where they were roughly used by the patriotic criminal classes of England. A number of the Upper Cdn rebels were tried and transported too.

            The grandson of W. L. Mackenzie, W.L.M. King, became Prime Minister of Canada in the 1920's & '30's and proudly displayed the wanted poster for his G.dad to the King of England when he visited! A small but key step in our march to nationhood.

            Peter


            ============================================================
            From: John Ogden <johnjogden@...>
            Date: 2005/12/05 Mon PM 06:23:54 EST
            To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37 Rebellion?"

            All-
            In yet another moment of American ignorance, what sparked this
            rebellion? I presume that this was part of a larger campaign about which we
            south of the 49th Parallel are not taught.

            Yours,
            John Ogden


            On 12/5/05, suthren@... <suthren@...> wrote:
            >
            > In 1987 a re-enactment of the 1837 Rebellion was staged at St. Denis,
            > where
            > a party of mixed francophone and anglophone Canadian rebels led by an
            > anglophone (Dr. Wolfred Nelson), and many veterans of the War of 1812,
            > defeated a British line regiment in a sharp fight and sent them retiring
            > in
            > some disorder (The Canadian rebels picked up and cared for the abandoned
            > Brit wounded after the battle. When the Brits returned some months later
            > they reclaimed the convalescing wounded and then burned out the farmers
            > who
            > had sheltered them). The re-enactment aroused so many latent passions that
            > a
            > fist fight broke out between some of the 'British' and 'rebel'
            > re-enactors.
            > A red coat is still not welcome in the Richelieu Valley, and with good
            > reason.
            >
            > Vic Suthren
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Peter Monahan" <petemonahan@...>
            > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 5:31 PM
            > Subject: Re: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
            > Rebellion?"
            >
            >
            > > Gord
            > >
            > > For the open field part we'd have to go a leedle furder north - like
            > King
            > City! (Ironically, or perhaps not, "King City" - 40km/25miles n of C of
            > Kn.Universe - is mostly fields.)
            > >
            > > Ian - was the timing thing a reference to our election, or just the
            > weather? :7)
            > >
            > > P
            > > ============================================================
            > > From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>
            > > Date: 2005/12/05 Mon PM 04:39:01 EST
            > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Subject: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
            > Rebellion?"
            > >
            > > Peter;
            > >
            > > What a great scenario. Imagine the entire line scattering across an
            > open
            > field shouting "Run away! Run away!". And think of the public crowd, all
            > better armed than the re-enactors, with some of them getting carried away
            > and "poppin' caps in the air" (or worse).
            > >
            > > The re-enactment would go down in history as the "Yonge Street Races".
            > Hoo-Aahhh! I love the smell of black powder in the morning.
            > >
            > > Isn't it great to be Canadian.
            > >
            > > Gord Deans, Royal Navy [1812-14]
            > > In winter quarters on the Upper Thames, Upper Canada
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: peter monahan
            > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
            > > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:40 PM
            > > Subject: [WarOf1812] On This Day in Canadian Military History
            > > ...
            > > "Battle of Yonge Street. A group of "revolutionaries" are marching
            > down
            > Yonge Street in Toronto and are met by Loyalist volunteers who begin
            > firing
            > at them. When some of the rebels kneel to fire their weapons, the men at
            > the back believe they have been shot and flee in panic, prompting the
            > collapse of the entire rebel column. It is an auspicious beginning to
            > William Lyon Mackenzie's rebellion in Upper Canada."
            > > ...
            > > Peter Monahan
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
            > of
            > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
            > of
            > square miles...
            > >
            > > Unit Contact information for North America:
            > > ---------------------------------
            > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            > >
            > > American Forces Unit Listing
            > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ============================================================
            > >
            > >
            > > Peter Monahan
            > > petermonahan@...
            > > 705-435-0953 home
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
            > of
            > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
            > of
            > square miles...
            > >
            > > Unit Contact information for North America:
            > > ---------------------------------
            > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            > >
            > > American Forces Unit Listing
            > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --
            > > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            > > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date:
            > 05/12/05
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
            > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
            > square miles...
            >
            > Unit Contact information for North America:
            > ---------------------------------
            > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            >
            > American Forces Unit Listing
            > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >


            --
            Fortuna audentes favorit.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

            Unit Contact information for North America:
            ---------------------------------
            Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

            American Forces Unit Listing
            http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            Yahoo! Groups Links





            ============================================================
          • ray hobbs
            List: To bring this back to 1812 (and, it does have a connection) some members of the 41st Regiment, such as Captain Fuller, Paymaster Raye and Lieut., Thomas
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 5, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              List:
              To bring this back to 1812 (and, it does have a connection) some
              members of the 41st Regiment, such as Captain Fuller, Paymaster Raye
              and Lieut., Thomas Taylor, were all close friends of the men who would
              later rebel against the Government.
              In 1811 Taylor even acted as second to William Warren Baldwin, a leader
              of the later rebels, against MacDonnell, Brock's AdC in a duel. Their
              sympathies were clearly with the Irish lower middle class in Upper
              Canada, who condemned "that damned Scottish Faction" at York. Many of
              these officers came from, or had contact with the same lower middle
              class Irish Protestants.
              The interesting thing is that following the war, all of these officers
              declared themselves against the rebels. I am interested in trying to
              find out why this was.
              I am working on an extended article on Taylor, and will hope to have it
              published in the near future.
              If members of any other Irish Regiments in 1812 (Kevin W.etc) have any
              light to shed on this - t'would be welcome.
              Yrs etc.
              Ray Hobbs
              CO 41st Regt.

              On Monday, December 5, 2005, at 06:44 PM, Peter Monahan wrote:

              > Vic
              >
              > Yes, the Lower Canadian rebellion was a horse of a different colour
              > entirely - pitched battles, buildings cleared at bayonet point and
              > artillery shelling chruches as I recall.  I can see both why it would
              > be re-enacted and why it still provokes a passionate response!
              > Something else for our francophone brethern to remember to our
              > discredit, I'm afraid.
              >
              > John
              >
              > In a nut shell, both Upper and Lower Canada had representative
              > Assemblies,and British appointed Lt-Governors who in turn appointed
              > the Councils (read "cabints") which made the real decisions.  The
              > Governors were not responsible to the assemblies - couldn't be
              > replaced except at London's pleasure - and the Councils represented
              > landed and wealthy interests, not the population at large.  In LC
              > (Quebec), of course made wprse by the fact that the Council were
              > either English or "Anglo-loving" Frenchmen.
              >
              > The "rebels" were in fact making modest demands even by the standards
              > of the time - "representative government" - and would likely have
              > gotten it in another few years if they hadn't chosen to march instead
              > of just editoralizing and speechifying.  (My sympathy is with them,
              > BTW, I'd have marched too!).
              >
              > Some of the rebels escaped to the US and raided back into Canada in
              > the summer of'38, raising tensions between the 2 countries before they
              > were suppressed.  As it was, a number of the French were killed in
              > battle, 12 were hanged and 60 transported to Australia where they were
              > roughly used by the patriotic criminal classes of England.  A number
              > of the Upper Cdn rebels were tried and transported too.
              >
              > The grandson of W. L. Mackenzie, W.L.M. King, became Prime Minister of
              > Canada in the 1920's & '30's and proudly displayed the wanted poster
              > for his G.dad to the King of England when he visited!  A small but key
              > step in our march to nationhood.
              >
              > Peter
              >
              >
              > ============================================================
              > From: John Ogden <johnjogden@...>
              > Date: 2005/12/05 Mon PM 06:23:54 EST
              > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
              > Rebellion?"
              >
              > All-
              >      In yet another moment of American ignorance, what sparked this
              > rebellion?  I presume that this was part of a larger campaign about
              > which we
              > south of the 49th Parallel are not taught.
              >
              > Yours,
              > John Ogden
              >
              >
              > On 12/5/05, suthren@... <suthren@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > In 1987 a re-enactment of the 1837 Rebellion was staged at St. Denis,
              > > where
              > > a party of mixed francophone and anglophone Canadian rebels led by an
              > > anglophone (Dr. Wolfred Nelson), and many veterans of the War of
              > 1812,
              > > defeated a British line regiment in a sharp fight and sent them
              > retiring
              > > in
              > > some disorder (The Canadian rebels picked up and cared for the
              > abandoned
              > > Brit wounded after the battle. When the Brits returned some months
              > later
              > > they reclaimed the convalescing wounded and then burned out the
              > farmers
              > > who
              > > had sheltered them). The re-enactment aroused so many latent
              > passions that
              > > a
              > > fist fight broke out between some of the 'British' and 'rebel'
              > > re-enactors.
              > > A red coat is still not welcome in the Richelieu Valley, and with
              > good
              > > reason.
              > >
              > > Vic Suthren
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: "Peter Monahan" <petemonahan@...>
              > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 5:31 PM
              > > Subject: Re: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
              > > Rebellion?"
              > >
              > >
              > > > Gord
              > > >
              > > > For the open field part we'd have to go a leedle furder north -
              > like
              > > King
              > > City!  (Ironically, or perhaps not, "King City" - 40km/25miles n of
              > C of
              > > Kn.Universe - is mostly fields.)
              > > >
              > > > Ian - was the timing thing a reference to our election, or just the
              > > weather?  :7)
              > > >
              > > > P
              > > > ============================================================
              > > > From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>
              > > > Date: 2005/12/05 Mon PM 04:39:01 EST
              > > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
              > > > Subject: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
              > > Rebellion?"
              > > >
              > > > Peter;
              > > >
              > > > What a great scenario.  Imagine the entire line scattering across
              > an
              > > open
              > > field shouting "Run away! Run away!".  And think of the public
              > crowd, all
              > > better armed than the re-enactors, with some of them getting carried
              > away
              > > and "poppin' caps in the air" (or worse).
              > > >
              > > > The re-enactment would go down in history as the "Yonge Street
              > Races".
              > > Hoo-Aahhh!  I love the smell of black powder in the morning.
              > > >
              > > > Isn't it great to be Canadian.
              > > >
              > > > Gord Deans, Royal Navy [1812-14]
              > > > In winter quarters on the Upper Thames, Upper Canada
              > > >   ----- Original Message -----
              > > >   From: peter monahan
              > > >   To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
              > > >   Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:40 PM
              > > >   Subject: [WarOf1812] On This Day in Canadian Military History
              > > >   ...
              > > >   "Battle of Yonge Street.  A group of "revolutionaries" are
              > marching
              > > down
              > > Yonge Street in Toronto and are met by Loyalist volunteers who begin
              > > firing
              > > at them.  When some of the rebels kneel to fire their weapons, the
              > men at
              > > the back believe they have been shot and flee in panic, prompting the
              > > collapse of the entire rebel column.  It is an auspicious beginning
              > to
              > > William Lyon Mackenzie's rebellion in Upper Canada."
              > > >   ...
              > > >   Peter Monahan
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
              > hundreds
              > > of
              > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
              > THOUSANDS
              > > of
              > > square miles...
              > > >
              > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
              > > >    ---------------------------------
              > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              > > >
              > > > American Forces Unit Listing
              > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ============================================================
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Peter Monahan
              > > > petermonahan@...
              > > > 705-435-0953 home
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
              > hundreds
              > > of
              > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
              > THOUSANDS
              > > of
              > > square miles...
              > > >
              > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
              > > >    ---------------------------------
              > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              > > >
              > > > American Forces Unit Listing
              > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --
              > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
              > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              > > > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date:
              > > 05/12/05
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
              > hundreds of
              > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
              > THOUSANDS of
              > > square miles...
              > >
              > > Unit Contact information for North America:
              > >   ---------------------------------
              > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              > >
              > > American Forces Unit Listing
              > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > --
              > Fortuna audentes favorit.
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
              > of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
              > THOUSANDS of square miles...
              >
              > Unit Contact information for North America:
              >    ---------------------------------
              > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              >
              > American Forces Unit Listing
              > http://usforces1812.tripod.com 
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ============================================================
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
              > of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
              > THOUSANDS of square miles...
              >
              > Unit Contact information for North America:
              >    ---------------------------------
              > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              >
              > American Forces Unit Listing
              > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              >
              >
              <image.tiff>
              >
              > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              >
              > +  Visit your group "WarOf1812" on the web.
              >  
              > +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              >  WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >  
              > +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              >
              >
              <image.tiff>
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ian Gardner
              ... Your choice. I m sure the ghost of William Lyon Mackenzie would look on approvingly. :) Ian -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 5, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                >Ian - was the timing thing a reference to our election, or just the
                >weather? :7)

                >P


                Your choice. I'm sure the ghost of William Lyon Mackenzie would look on
                approvingly. :)

                Ian

                --
                No virus found in this outgoing message.
                Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date:
                05/12/2005
              • suthren@magma.ca
                Dear John After the War of 1812 the British administration in the two Canadas (Upper Canada=Ontario, Lower Canada=Quebec) maintained a colonial system of
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 5, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear John

                  After the War of 1812 the British administration in the two Canadas (Upper
                  Canada=Ontario, Lower Canada=Quebec) maintained a colonial system of
                  government that gave vast powers to the Governors and to a social elite who
                  dominated the appointed (not elected) Upper Houses, and who simply ignored
                  the limited-suffrage Lower Houses of the provincial legislatures. The
                  Governors allowed a social elite (British and Anglican) in what later became
                  Ontario to monopolize all political appointments and run the colony for
                  their own benefit. That elite became known as the "Family Compact", and
                  effectively blocked all attempts at greater democratization, aided by the
                  Loyalists who loathed and feared US-style popular democracy under which they
                  had suffered. In Quebec a similar elite, anchored on a pact between the
                  Catholic Church, wealthy French landowners and the British colonial
                  administration, and referred to as the "Chateau Clique", equally blocked
                  progress. Economic strain, outbreaks of disease, population growth and the
                  example of the booming (and, by contrast, turbulent and unruly but
                  unimaginably free) American society to the south led to a comic-opera revolt
                  in Ontario that failed largely due to the innately unrevolutionary instincts
                  of the Ontario population (however real their sense of grievance), and a
                  serious and bloody armed revolt in Quebec that was put down with a
                  never-forgotten savage viciousness by the British military (and English
                  speaking militia from Ontario border regions like Glengarry). The British
                  did enact tardy reforms later that, over years, answered many of the
                  citizen's grievances, but never met others (Canada's Senate is still
                  appointed by the ruling Government and is not accountable to the people,
                  which never fails to astonish Australians and Americans), and in many
                  respects Canadians still have fewer constitional rights tha Americans, and
                  have yet to cross over that psychological barrier that says political power
                  resides entirely within themselves rather than The Crown.

                  Vic Suthren

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "John Ogden" <johnjogden@...>
                  To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 6:23 PM
                  Subject: Re: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
                  Rebellion?"


                  > All-
                  > In yet another moment of American ignorance, what sparked this
                  > rebellion? I presume that this was part of a larger campaign about which
                  we
                  > south of the 49th Parallel are not taught.
                  >
                  > Yours,
                  > John Ogden
                  >
                  >
                  > On 12/5/05, suthren@... <suthren@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > In 1987 a re-enactment of the 1837 Rebellion was staged at St. Denis,
                  > > where
                  > > a party of mixed francophone and anglophone Canadian rebels led by an
                  > > anglophone (Dr. Wolfred Nelson), and many veterans of the War of 1812,
                  > > defeated a British line regiment in a sharp fight and sent them retiring
                  > > in
                  > > some disorder (The Canadian rebels picked up and cared for the abandoned
                  > > Brit wounded after the battle. When the Brits returned some months later
                  > > they reclaimed the convalescing wounded and then burned out the farmers
                  > > who
                  > > had sheltered them). The re-enactment aroused so many latent passions
                  that
                  > > a
                  > > fist fight broke out between some of the 'British' and 'rebel'
                  > > re-enactors.
                  > > A red coat is still not welcome in the Richelieu Valley, and with good
                  > > reason.
                  > >
                  > > Vic Suthren
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: "Peter Monahan" <petemonahan@...>
                  > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 5:31 PM
                  > > Subject: Re: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
                  > > Rebellion?"
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > > Gord
                  > > >
                  > > > For the open field part we'd have to go a leedle furder north - like
                  > > King
                  > > City! (Ironically, or perhaps not, "King City" - 40km/25miles n of C of
                  > > Kn.Universe - is mostly fields.)
                  > > >
                  > > > Ian - was the timing thing a reference to our election, or just the
                  > > weather? :7)
                  > > >
                  > > > P
                  > > > ============================================================
                  > > > From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>
                  > > > Date: 2005/12/05 Mon PM 04:39:01 EST
                  > > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > Subject: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
                  > > Rebellion?"
                  > > >
                  > > > Peter;
                  > > >
                  > > > What a great scenario. Imagine the entire line scattering across an
                  > > open
                  > > field shouting "Run away! Run away!". And think of the public crowd,
                  all
                  > > better armed than the re-enactors, with some of them getting carried
                  away
                  > > and "poppin' caps in the air" (or worse).
                  > > >
                  > > > The re-enactment would go down in history as the "Yonge Street Races".
                  > > Hoo-Aahhh! I love the smell of black powder in the morning.
                  > > >
                  > > > Isn't it great to be Canadian.
                  > > >
                  > > > Gord Deans, Royal Navy [1812-14]
                  > > > In winter quarters on the Upper Thames, Upper Canada
                  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > > From: peter monahan
                  > > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:40 PM
                  > > > Subject: [WarOf1812] On This Day in Canadian Military History
                  > > > ...
                  > > > "Battle of Yonge Street. A group of "revolutionaries" are marching
                  > > down
                  > > Yonge Street in Toronto and are met by Loyalist volunteers who begin
                  > > firing
                  > > at them. When some of the rebels kneel to fire their weapons, the men
                  at
                  > > the back believe they have been shot and flee in panic, prompting the
                  > > collapse of the entire rebel column. It is an auspicious beginning to
                  > > William Lyon Mackenzie's rebellion in Upper Canada."
                  > > > ...
                  > > > Peter Monahan
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
                  > > of
                  > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                  THOUSANDS
                  > > of
                  > > square miles...
                  > > >
                  > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                  > > > ---------------------------------
                  > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                  > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                  > > >
                  > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                  > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ============================================================
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Peter Monahan
                  > > > petermonahan@...
                  > > > 705-435-0953 home
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
                  > > of
                  > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                  THOUSANDS
                  > > of
                  > > square miles...
                  > > >
                  > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                  > > > ---------------------------------
                  > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                  > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                  > > >
                  > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                  > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --
                  > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                  > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                  > > > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date:
                  > > 05/12/05
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
                  of
                  > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                  THOUSANDS of
                  > > square miles...
                  > >
                  > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                  > > ---------------------------------
                  > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                  > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                  > >
                  > > American Forces Unit Listing
                  > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Fortuna audentes favorit.
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                  square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                  square miles...
                  >
                  > Unit Contact information for North America:
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                  > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                  >
                  > American Forces Unit Listing
                  > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > No virus found in this incoming message.
                  > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                  > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date: 05/12/05
                  >
                  >
                • mccombs98
                  Or what about the battle of Short Hills, Niagara Upper Canada in 37? Still quite virgin territory today. Some St. John s ruins can still be found in the
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 5, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Or what about the battle of Short Hills, Niagara Upper Canada in '37?
                    Still quite virgin territory today. Some St. John's ruins can still be
                    found in the undergrowth of the surrounding forest.
                    (I often claim that the road pavement ends at the boundary of St.
                    John's because the Government still holds a grudge:) St. John's exists
                    today in name only.
                    A fight for responsible government, against nepotism, a reaction to the
                    Great Discontent of 1818 (in Niagara anyways), and a hope for
                    representative government (smacking of the still embedded Republican
                    thought of the time - and not only Irish republican thought:).
                    It would be similar to a Longwoods tactical.
                    Murray
                    Short Hills Niagara.

                    Peter Monahan <petemonahan@s...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Gord
                    >
                    > For the open field part we'd have to go a leedle furder north - like King City! (Ironically, or perhaps not, "King City" - 40km/25miles n of C of Kn.Universe - is mostly fields.)
                    >
                    > Ian - was the timing thing a reference to our election, or just the weather? :7)
                    >
                    > P
                    > ============================================================
                    > From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@s...>
                    > Date: 2005/12/05 Mon PM 04:39:01 EST
                    > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Subject: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37 Rebellion?"
                    >
                    > Peter;
                    >
                    > What a great scenario. Imagine the entire line scattering across an open field shouting "Run away! Run away!". And think of the public crowd, all better armed than the re-enactors, with some of them getting carried away and "poppin' caps in the air" (or worse).
                    >
                    > The re-enactment would go down in history as the "Yonge Street Races". Hoo-Aahhh! I love the smell of black powder in the morning.
                    >
                    > Isn't it great to be Canadian.
                    >
                    > Gord Deans, Royal Navy [1812-14]
                    > In winter quarters on the Upper Thames, Upper Canada
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: peter monahan
                    > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:40 PM
                    > Subject: [WarOf1812] On This Day in Canadian Military History
                    > ...
                    > "Battle of Yonge Street. A group of "revolutionaries" are marching down Yonge Street in Toronto and are met by Loyalist volunteers who begin firing at them. When some of the rebels kneel to fire their weapons, the men at the back believe they have been shot and flee in panic, prompting the collapse of the entire rebel column. It is an auspicious beginning to William Lyon Mackenzie's rebellion in Upper Canada."
                    > ...
                    > Peter Monahan
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
                    >
                    > Unit Contact information for North America:
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                    > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                    >
                    > American Forces Unit Listing
                    > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ============================================================
                    >
                    >
                    > Peter Monahan
                    > petermonahan@s...
                    > 705-435-0953 home
                    >
                  • mccombs98
                    Well said Sir!
                    Message 9 of 16 , Dec 5, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Well said Sir!

                      <suthren@m...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Dear John
                      >
                      > After the War of 1812 the British administration in the two Canadas (Upper
                      > Canada=Ontario, Lower Canada=Quebec) maintained a colonial system of
                      > government that gave vast powers to the Governors and to a social elite who
                      > dominated the appointed (not elected) Upper Houses, and who simply ignored
                      > the limited-suffrage Lower Houses of the provincial legislatures. The
                      > Governors allowed a social elite (British and Anglican) in what later became
                      > Ontario to monopolize all political appointments and run the colony for
                      > their own benefit. That elite became known as the "Family Compact", and
                      > effectively blocked all attempts at greater democratization, aided by the
                      > Loyalists who loathed and feared US-style popular democracy under which they
                      > had suffered. In Quebec a similar elite, anchored on a pact between the
                      > Catholic Church, wealthy French landowners and the British colonial
                      > administration, and referred to as the "Chateau Clique", equally blocked
                      > progress. Economic strain, outbreaks of disease, population growth and the
                      > example of the booming (and, by contrast, turbulent and unruly but
                      > unimaginably free) American society to the south led to a comic-opera revolt
                      > in Ontario that failed largely due to the innately unrevolutionary instincts
                      > of the Ontario population (however real their sense of grievance), and a
                      > serious and bloody armed revolt in Quebec that was put down with a
                      > never-forgotten savage viciousness by the British military (and English
                      > speaking militia from Ontario border regions like Glengarry). The British
                      > did enact tardy reforms later that, over years, answered many of the
                      > citizen's grievances, but never met others (Canada's Senate is still
                      > appointed by the ruling Government and is not accountable to the people,
                      > which never fails to astonish Australians and Americans), and in many
                      > respects Canadians still have fewer constitional rights tha Americans, and
                      > have yet to cross over that psychological barrier that says political power
                      > resides entirely within themselves rather than The Crown.
                      >
                      > Vic Suthren
                    • badger222ca
                      Several years ago, at the Crysler s Farm event, there was somebody from the Prescott, Ont., area talking about organizing a re-enactment of the 1838 Battle of
                      Message 10 of 16 , Dec 6, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Several years ago, at the Crysler's Farm event, there was somebody
                        from the Prescott, Ont., area talking about organizing a re-enactment
                        of the 1838 Battle of the Windmill. Does anybody know who this was and
                        what ever became of the proposal?
                        It would be a good scenario and the site is a national park.
                        T. Avery

                        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "mccombs98" <macomb@p...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Or what about the battle of Short Hills, Niagara Upper Canada in '37?
                        > Still quite virgin territory today. Some St. John's ruins can still be
                        > found in the undergrowth of the surrounding forest.
                        > (I often claim that the road pavement ends at the boundary of St.
                        > John's because the Government still holds a grudge:) St. John's exists
                        > today in name only.
                        > A fight for responsible government, against nepotism, a reaction to the
                        > Great Discontent of 1818 (in Niagara anyways), and a hope for
                        > representative government (smacking of the still embedded Republican
                        > thought of the time - and not only Irish republican thought:).
                        > It would be similar to a Longwoods tactical.
                        > Murray
                        > Short Hills Niagara.
                        >
                        > Peter Monahan <petemonahan@s...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Gord
                        > >
                        > > For the open field part we'd have to go a leedle furder north -
                        like King City! (Ironically, or perhaps not, "King City" -
                        40km/25miles n of C of Kn.Universe - is mostly fields.)
                        > >
                        > > Ian - was the timing thing a reference to our election, or just
                        the weather? :7)
                        > >
                        > > P
                        > > ============================================================
                        > > From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@s...>
                        > > Date: 2005/12/05 Mon PM 04:39:01 EST
                        > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                        > > Subject: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
                        Rebellion?"
                        > >
                        > > Peter;
                        > >
                        > > What a great scenario. Imagine the entire line scattering across
                        an open field shouting "Run away! Run away!". And think of the public
                        crowd, all better armed than the re-enactors, with some of them
                        getting carried away and "poppin' caps in the air" (or worse).
                        > >
                        > > The re-enactment would go down in history as the "Yonge Street
                        Races". Hoo-Aahhh! I love the smell of black powder in the morning.
                        > >
                        > > Isn't it great to be Canadian.
                        > >
                        > > Gord Deans, Royal Navy [1812-14]
                        > > In winter quarters on the Upper Thames, Upper Canada
                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > From: peter monahan
                        > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:40 PM
                        > > Subject: [WarOf1812] On This Day in Canadian Military History
                        > > ...
                        > > "Battle of Yonge Street. A group of "revolutionaries" are
                        marching down Yonge Street in Toronto and are met by Loyalist
                        volunteers who begin firing at them. When some of the rebels kneel to
                        fire their weapons, the men at the back believe they have been shot
                        and flee in panic, prompting the collapse of the entire rebel column.
                        It is an auspicious beginning to William Lyon Mackenzie's rebellion
                        in Upper Canada."
                        > > ...
                        > > Peter Monahan
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                        hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the
                        fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
                        > >
                        > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                        > > ---------------------------------
                        > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                        > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                        > >
                        > > American Forces Unit Listing
                        > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ============================================================
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Peter Monahan
                        > > petermonahan@s...
                        > > 705-435-0953 home
                        > >
                        >
                      • Ian Gardner
                        Don Graves Guns Across the River: The Battle of the Windmill, 1838 covers the subject quite well IMHO and IIRC, includes photos taken during a television
                        Message 11 of 16 , Dec 6, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Don Graves' "Guns Across the River: The Battle of the
                          Windmill, 1838" covers the subject quite well IMHO and
                          IIRC, includes photos taken during a television
                          production about the battle. Has anyone seen this
                          production or was I halucinating? :)

                          Ian


                          --- badger222ca <red.gold@...> wrote:

                          >
                          > Several years ago, at the Crysler's Farm event,
                          > there was somebody
                          > from the Prescott, Ont., area talking about
                          > organizing a re-enactment
                          > of the 1838 Battle of the Windmill. Does anybody
                          > know who this was and
                          > what ever became of the proposal?
                          > It would be a good scenario and the site is a
                          > national park.
                          > T. Avery
                          >
                          > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "mccombs98"
                          > <macomb@p...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Or what about the battle of Short Hills, Niagara
                          > Upper Canada in '37?
                          > > Still quite virgin territory today. Some St.
                          > John's ruins can still be
                          > > found in the undergrowth of the surrounding
                          > forest.
                          > > (I often claim that the road pavement ends at the
                          > boundary of St.
                          > > John's because the Government still holds a
                          > grudge:) St. John's exists
                          > > today in name only.
                          > > A fight for responsible government, against
                          > nepotism, a reaction to the
                          > > Great Discontent of 1818 (in Niagara anyways), and
                          > a hope for
                          > > representative government (smacking of the still
                          > embedded Republican
                          > > thought of the time - and not only Irish
                          > republican thought:).
                          > > It would be similar to a Longwoods tactical.
                          > > Murray
                          > > Short Hills Niagara.
                          > >
                          > > Peter Monahan <petemonahan@s...> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Gord
                          > > >
                          > > > For the open field part we'd have to go a leedle
                          > furder north -
                          > like King City! (Ironically, or perhaps not, "King
                          > City" -
                          > 40km/25miles n of C of Kn.Universe - is mostly
                          > fields.)
                          > > >
                          > > > Ian - was the timing thing a reference to our
                          > election, or just
                          > the weather? :7)
                          > > >
                          > > > P
                          > > >
                          >
                          ============================================================
                          > > > From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@s...>
                          > > > Date: 2005/12/05 Mon PM 04:39:01 EST
                          > > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > > Subject: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone
                          > re-enact the '37
                          > Rebellion?"
                          > > >
                          > > > Peter;
                          > > >
                          > > > What a great scenario. Imagine the entire line
                          > scattering across
                          > an open field shouting "Run away! Run away!". And
                          > think of the public
                          > crowd, all better armed than the re-enactors, with
                          > some of them
                          > getting carried away and "poppin' caps in the air"
                          > (or worse).
                          > > >
                          > > > The re-enactment would go down in history as the
                          > "Yonge Street
                          > Races". Hoo-Aahhh! I love the smell of black
                          > powder in the morning.
                          > > >
                          > > > Isn't it great to be Canadian.
                          > > >
                          > > > Gord Deans, Royal Navy [1812-14]
                          > > > In winter quarters on the Upper Thames, Upper
                          > Canada
                          > > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > > From: peter monahan
                          > > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:40 PM
                          > > > Subject: [WarOf1812] On This Day in Canadian
                          > Military History
                          > > > ...
                          > > > "Battle of Yonge Street. A group of
                          > "revolutionaries" are
                          > marching down Yonge Street in Toronto and are met by
                          > Loyalist
                          > volunteers who begin firing at them. When some of
                          > the rebels kneel to
                          > fire their weapons, the men at the back believe they
                          > have been shot
                          > and flee in panic, prompting the collapse of the
                          > entire rebel column.
                          > It is an auspicious beginning to William Lyon
                          > Mackenzie's rebellion
                          > in Upper Canada."
                          > > > ...
                          > > > Peter Monahan
                          > > >
                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                          > removed]
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought
                          > over the fate of
                          > hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds
                          > determined the
                          > fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
                          > > >
                          > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                          > > > ---------------------------------
                          > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                          > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                          > > >
                          > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                          > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          >
                          ============================================================
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Peter Monahan
                          > > > petermonahan@s...
                          > > > 705-435-0953 home
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                          > --------------------~-->
                          > Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive today
                          > at Network for Good!
                          >
                          http://us.click.yahoo.com/7zgKlB/dnQLAA/Zx0JAA/PJ_qlB/TM
                          >
                          --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
                          >
                          >
                          > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
                          > the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North
                          > America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
                          > of square miles...
                          >
                          > Unit Contact information for North America:
                          > ---------------------------------
                          > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                          > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                          >
                          > American Forces Unit Listing
                          > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • HQ93rd@aol.com
                          ... Oooo...I ve always wanted to get all the 93rd there for the Windmill so we could basically march down the road, and then see the rebels coming out to
                          Message 12 of 16 , Dec 7, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            In a message dated 6/12/2005 9:01:19 AM, red.gold@... writes:
                            > Several years ago, at the Crysler's Farm event, there was somebody
                            > from the Prescott, Ont., area talking about organizing a re-enactment
                            > of the 1838 Battle of the Windmill. Does anybody know who this was and
                            > what ever became of the proposal?
                            > It would be a good scenario and the site is a national park.
                            > T. Avery
                            >

                            Oooo...I've always wanted to get all the 93rd there for the Windmill so we
                            could basically march down the road, and then see the rebels coming out to
                            surrender.
                            Now THAT'S fun!
                            ;-)
                            B
                            93rd SHRoFLHU
                            THE Thin Red Line
                            93rdhighlanders.com


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • badger222ca
                            ... Windmill so we ... out to ... With all due respect, there was a bit more to it than that. T. Avery The Battle of the Windmill This windmill structure was
                            Message 13 of 16 , Dec 7, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              > Oooo...I've always wanted to get all the 93rd there for the
                              Windmill so we
                              > could basically march down the road, and then see the rebels coming
                              out to
                              > surrender.
                              > Now THAT'S fun!
                              > ;-)
                              > B
                              > 93rd SHRoFLHU
                              > THE Thin Red Line
                              > 93rdhighlanders.com

                              With all due respect, there was a bit more to it than that.
                              T. Avery

                              The Battle of the Windmill

                              This windmill structure was constructed in the 1830's as a grist mill
                              for grinding grain. In November of 1838, it was the site of the
                              Battle of the Windmill, fought between approximately 200 insurgents
                              from the United States sympathetic to the 1837 Rebellions in Canada
                              and local militia and British soldiers.

                              The New York Hunters, led by "General" John Ward Birge, assembled at
                              the Lake Ontario port of Sacket's Harbour for an attack on Fort
                              Wellington, Prescott. The British had been alerted to their
                              activities and the reconstruction of Fort Wellington was authorized.

                              The Battle

                              On November 12th, two schooners approached Prescott with the
                              Americans. They attempted to land at Prescott Wharf. However, the
                              customs inspector, Alpheus Jones, sounded the alarm. The two
                              schooners took off and one ran aground at Windmill Point. With the
                              defection of General Birge who claimed sickness and retired to the
                              American shore with 100 men, command now fell to Nils Von Schoultz, a
                              Swedish-Pole, 31 years of age. He envisaged a quick victory but he
                              would soon find out differently for he had stumbled into a hotbed of
                              Loyalism. He could not have found a more unfriendly population.

                              Schoultz thought the mill, with its height of 80 feet, would be a
                              great place for sniper activity and with its thick stone walls, it
                              would be a veritable fortress.

                              Two hundred invaders took refuge in the mill and in the surrounding
                              stone houses. The mill was a terribly uncomfortable place and they
                              ran out of supplies. The escape routes and supply routes on the
                              river side were blocked by British gun boats and a land attack was
                              launched against them by British regulars and militia on November
                              13th.

                              The first outside help was from Lt. Col. Gowan and his two companies
                              of "Royal Borderers" from Brockville, who appeared about noon.

                              Eventually, 2000 regulars and militia were amassed under the command
                              of Colonel Young . They launched a direct frontal assault on the
                              American position but were beaten back after sustaining heavy
                              casualties, especially from the sharp shooters Von Schultz had placed
                              in the high windmill tower. Von Schoultz and his men were finally
                              pushed back under relentless pressure from the British forces on
                              land. After 4 days of fighting, running short of food and water, with
                              no medical supplies and stunned by the hospitality of the population,
                              the invaders were compelled to surrender on the evening of November
                              16th.

                              Prisoners were taken to Kingston where a lawyer, John A. Mac Donald,
                              was counsel to them. Von Schoultz was hanged at Fort Henry. The
                              British captured 159 prisoners of whom 11 were executed, 3 died of
                              wounds and 60 were convicted and sent to Australia. The remainder
                              who were mere boys, only 15 to 18 years of age, were given their
                              release papers by John MacDonald and sent home to the United States.

                              In all, 48 men were killed and 89 wounded in a vicious battle that
                              helped pave the way to Confederation.

                              This mill was converted into a lighthouse in the 1870's.

                              This site was opened in 1996 and today it is operated, on behalf of
                              Parks Canada, by the Friends of Windmill Point who have just had a
                              fantastic book written, called Guns Across the River (The Battle of
                              the Windmill, 1838) by Donald E. Graves. In this book are
                              approximately 2000 names of everyone who fought in the Battle of the
                              Windmill.

                              Anyone interested in this book, or would like further information,
                              please call 613-925-2896 or write to The Friends of Windmill Point,
                              P.O. Box 479, Prescott, ON, K0E 1T0.

                              References:

                              Parks Canada Pamphlet-The Battle of the Windmill

                              The Battle of the Windmill-K. F. Scott
                            • Robin R. Morris
                              ... somebody ... re-enactment ... this was and ... That person most probably would have been Rene Schoemaker of Prescott, chair of the Friends of the Windmill.
                              Message 14 of 16 , Dec 9, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, HQ93rd@a... wrote:
                                >
                                > In a message dated 6/12/2005 9:01:19 AM, red.gold@s...
                                writes:
                                > > Several years ago, at the Crysler's Farm event, there was
                                somebody
                                > > from the Prescott, Ont., area talking about organizing a
                                re-enactment
                                > > of the 1838 Battle of the Windmill. Does anybody know who
                                this was and
                                > > what ever became of the proposal?
                                > > It would be a good scenario and the site is a national park.
                                > > T. Avery
                                > >
                                That person most probably would have been Rene Schoemaker
                                of Prescott, chair of the Friends of the Windmill. You can reach
                                Rene at:
                                olshoes@...

                                It may take a couple of days for him to respond since he is black
                                powder deer hunting at the moment.

                                Regards

                                Robin Morris
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