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Re: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37 Rebellion?"

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  • Peter Monahan
    Gord For the open field part we d have to go a leedle furder north - like King City! (Ironically, or perhaps not, King City - 40km/25miles n of C of
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 5, 2005
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      Gord

      For the open field part we'd have to go a leedle furder north - like King City! (Ironically, or perhaps not, "King City" - 40km/25miles n of C of Kn.Universe - is mostly fields.)

      Ian - was the timing thing a reference to our election, or just the weather? :7)

      P
      ============================================================
      From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>
      Date: 2005/12/05 Mon PM 04:39:01 EST
      To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37 Rebellion?"

      Peter;

      What a great scenario. Imagine the entire line scattering across an open field shouting "Run away! Run away!". And think of the public crowd, all better armed than the re-enactors, with some of them getting carried away and "poppin' caps in the air" (or worse).

      The re-enactment would go down in history as the "Yonge Street Races". Hoo-Aahhh! I love the smell of black powder in the morning.

      Isn't it great to be Canadian.

      Gord Deans, Royal Navy [1812-14]
      In winter quarters on the Upper Thames, Upper Canada
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: peter monahan
      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:40 PM
      Subject: [WarOf1812] On This Day in Canadian Military History
      ...
      "Battle of Yonge Street. A group of "revolutionaries" are marching down Yonge Street in Toronto and are met by Loyalist volunteers who begin firing at them. When some of the rebels kneel to fire their weapons, the men at the back believe they have been shot and flee in panic, prompting the collapse of the entire rebel column. It is an auspicious beginning to William Lyon Mackenzie's rebellion in Upper Canada."
      ...
      Peter Monahan

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

      Unit Contact information for North America:
      ---------------------------------
      Crown Forces Unit Listing:
      http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

      American Forces Unit Listing
      http://usforces1812.tripod.com
      Yahoo! Groups Links





      ============================================================


      Peter Monahan
      petermonahan@...
      705-435-0953 home
    • suthren@magma.ca
      In 1987 a re-enactment of the 1837 Rebellion was staged at St. Denis, where a party of mixed francophone and anglophone Canadian rebels led by an anglophone
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 5, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        In 1987 a re-enactment of the 1837 Rebellion was staged at St. Denis, where
        a party of mixed francophone and anglophone Canadian rebels led by an
        anglophone (Dr. Wolfred Nelson), and many veterans of the War of 1812,
        defeated a British line regiment in a sharp fight and sent them retiring in
        some disorder (The Canadian rebels picked up and cared for the abandoned
        Brit wounded after the battle. When the Brits returned some months later
        they reclaimed the convalescing wounded and then burned out the farmers who
        had sheltered them). The re-enactment aroused so many latent passions that a
        fist fight broke out between some of the 'British' and 'rebel' re-enactors.
        A red coat is still not welcome in the Richelieu Valley, and with good
        reason.

        Vic Suthren
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Peter Monahan" <petemonahan@...>
        To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 5:31 PM
        Subject: Re: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
        Rebellion?"


        > Gord
        >
        > For the open field part we'd have to go a leedle furder north - like King
        City! (Ironically, or perhaps not, "King City" - 40km/25miles n of C of
        Kn.Universe - is mostly fields.)
        >
        > Ian - was the timing thing a reference to our election, or just the
        weather? :7)
        >
        > P
        > ============================================================
        > From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>
        > Date: 2005/12/05 Mon PM 04:39:01 EST
        > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
        > Subject: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
        Rebellion?"
        >
        > Peter;
        >
        > What a great scenario. Imagine the entire line scattering across an open
        field shouting "Run away! Run away!". And think of the public crowd, all
        better armed than the re-enactors, with some of them getting carried away
        and "poppin' caps in the air" (or worse).
        >
        > The re-enactment would go down in history as the "Yonge Street Races".
        Hoo-Aahhh! I love the smell of black powder in the morning.
        >
        > Isn't it great to be Canadian.
        >
        > Gord Deans, Royal Navy [1812-14]
        > In winter quarters on the Upper Thames, Upper Canada
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: peter monahan
        > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:40 PM
        > Subject: [WarOf1812] On This Day in Canadian Military History
        > ...
        > "Battle of Yonge Street. A group of "revolutionaries" are marching down
        Yonge Street in Toronto and are met by Loyalist volunteers who begin firing
        at them. When some of the rebels kneel to fire their weapons, the men at
        the back believe they have been shot and flee in panic, prompting the
        collapse of the entire rebel column. It is an auspicious beginning to
        William Lyon Mackenzie's rebellion in Upper Canada."
        > ...
        > Peter Monahan
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
        square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
        square miles...
        >
        > Unit Contact information for North America:
        > ---------------------------------
        > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
        > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
        >
        > American Forces Unit Listing
        > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ============================================================
        >
        >
        > Peter Monahan
        > petermonahan@...
        > 705-435-0953 home
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
        square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
        square miles...
        >
        > Unit Contact information for North America:
        > ---------------------------------
        > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
        > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
        >
        > American Forces Unit Listing
        > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
        > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date: 05/12/05
        >
        >
      • John Ogden
        All- In yet another moment of American ignorance, what sparked this rebellion? I presume that this was part of a larger campaign about which we south of the
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 5, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          All-
          In yet another moment of American ignorance, what sparked this
          rebellion? I presume that this was part of a larger campaign about which we
          south of the 49th Parallel are not taught.

          Yours,
          John Ogden


          On 12/5/05, suthren@... <suthren@...> wrote:
          >
          > In 1987 a re-enactment of the 1837 Rebellion was staged at St. Denis,
          > where
          > a party of mixed francophone and anglophone Canadian rebels led by an
          > anglophone (Dr. Wolfred Nelson), and many veterans of the War of 1812,
          > defeated a British line regiment in a sharp fight and sent them retiring
          > in
          > some disorder (The Canadian rebels picked up and cared for the abandoned
          > Brit wounded after the battle. When the Brits returned some months later
          > they reclaimed the convalescing wounded and then burned out the farmers
          > who
          > had sheltered them). The re-enactment aroused so many latent passions that
          > a
          > fist fight broke out between some of the 'British' and 'rebel'
          > re-enactors.
          > A red coat is still not welcome in the Richelieu Valley, and with good
          > reason.
          >
          > Vic Suthren
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Peter Monahan" <petemonahan@...>
          > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 5:31 PM
          > Subject: Re: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
          > Rebellion?"
          >
          >
          > > Gord
          > >
          > > For the open field part we'd have to go a leedle furder north - like
          > King
          > City! (Ironically, or perhaps not, "King City" - 40km/25miles n of C of
          > Kn.Universe - is mostly fields.)
          > >
          > > Ian - was the timing thing a reference to our election, or just the
          > weather? :7)
          > >
          > > P
          > > ============================================================
          > > From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>
          > > Date: 2005/12/05 Mon PM 04:39:01 EST
          > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
          > > Subject: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
          > Rebellion?"
          > >
          > > Peter;
          > >
          > > What a great scenario. Imagine the entire line scattering across an
          > open
          > field shouting "Run away! Run away!". And think of the public crowd, all
          > better armed than the re-enactors, with some of them getting carried away
          > and "poppin' caps in the air" (or worse).
          > >
          > > The re-enactment would go down in history as the "Yonge Street Races".
          > Hoo-Aahhh! I love the smell of black powder in the morning.
          > >
          > > Isn't it great to be Canadian.
          > >
          > > Gord Deans, Royal Navy [1812-14]
          > > In winter quarters on the Upper Thames, Upper Canada
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: peter monahan
          > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:40 PM
          > > Subject: [WarOf1812] On This Day in Canadian Military History
          > > ...
          > > "Battle of Yonge Street. A group of "revolutionaries" are marching
          > down
          > Yonge Street in Toronto and are met by Loyalist volunteers who begin
          > firing
          > at them. When some of the rebels kneel to fire their weapons, the men at
          > the back believe they have been shot and flee in panic, prompting the
          > collapse of the entire rebel column. It is an auspicious beginning to
          > William Lyon Mackenzie's rebellion in Upper Canada."
          > > ...
          > > Peter Monahan
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
          > of
          > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
          > of
          > square miles...
          > >
          > > Unit Contact information for North America:
          > > ---------------------------------
          > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          > >
          > > American Forces Unit Listing
          > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ============================================================
          > >
          > >
          > > Peter Monahan
          > > petermonahan@...
          > > 705-435-0953 home
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
          > of
          > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
          > of
          > square miles...
          > >
          > > Unit Contact information for North America:
          > > ---------------------------------
          > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          > >
          > > American Forces Unit Listing
          > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --
          > > No virus found in this incoming message.
          > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          > > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date:
          > 05/12/05
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
          > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
          > square miles...
          >
          > Unit Contact information for North America:
          > ---------------------------------
          > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          >
          > American Forces Unit Listing
          > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


          --
          Fortuna audentes favorit.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • ray hobbs
          Vic et al: I am sure the members of our Regiment involved will not mind me passing this on. Two of our members have Francophone heritage, and their father was
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 5, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Vic et al:
            I am sure the members of our Regiment involved will not mind me
            passing this on. Two of our members have Francophone heritage, and
            their father was quite shocked that they had joined a British redcoated
            reenactment regiment.
            Such predilections run deep in Canadian culture. Yet, the "Canadians"
            (meaning in 1812 parlance French Canadians) fought well and with
            courage against invading American forces - viz Chateauguay etc., etc.
            Ray Hobbs
            41st CO
            Hamilton UC




            On Monday, December 5, 2005, at 05:43 PM, <suthren@...> wrote:

            > In 1987 a re-enactment of the 1837 Rebellion was staged at St. Denis,
            > where
            > a party of mixed francophone and anglophone Canadian rebels led by an
            > anglophone (Dr. Wolfred Nelson), and many veterans of the War of 1812,
            > defeated a British line regiment in a sharp fight and sent them
            > retiring in
            > some disorder (The Canadian rebels picked up and cared for the
            > abandoned
            > Brit wounded after the battle. When the Brits returned some months
            > later
            > they reclaimed the convalescing wounded and then burned out the
            > farmers who
            > had sheltered them). The re-enactment aroused so many latent passions
            > that a
            > fist fight broke out between some of the 'British' and 'rebel'
            > re-enactors.
            > A red coat is still not welcome in the Richelieu Valley, and with good
            > reason.
            >
            > Vic Suthren
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Peter Monahan" <petemonahan@...>
            > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 5:31 PM
            > Subject: Re: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
            > Rebellion?"
            >
            >
            > > Gord
            > >
            > > For the open field part we'd have to go a leedle furder north - like
            > King
            > City!  (Ironically, or perhaps not, "King City" - 40km/25miles n of C
            > of
            > Kn.Universe - is mostly fields.)
            > >
            > > Ian - was the timing thing a reference to our election, or just the
            > weather?  :7)
            > >
            > > P
            > > ============================================================
            > > From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>
            > > Date: 2005/12/05 Mon PM 04:39:01 EST
            > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Subject: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
            > Rebellion?"
            > >
            > > Peter;
            > >
            > > What a great scenario.  Imagine the entire line scattering across an
            > open
            > field shouting "Run away! Run away!".  And think of the public crowd,
            > all
            > better armed than the re-enactors, with some of them getting carried
            > away
            > and "poppin' caps in the air" (or worse).
            > >
            > > The re-enactment would go down in history as the "Yonge Street
            > Races".
            > Hoo-Aahhh!  I love the smell of black powder in the morning.
            > >
            > > Isn't it great to be Canadian.
            > >
            > > Gord Deans, Royal Navy [1812-14]
            > > In winter quarters on the Upper Thames, Upper Canada
            > >   ----- Original Message -----
            > >   From: peter monahan
            > >   To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
            > >   Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:40 PM
            > >   Subject: [WarOf1812] On This Day in Canadian Military History
            > >   ...
            > >   "Battle of Yonge Street.  A group of "revolutionaries" are
            > marching down
            > Yonge Street in Toronto and are met by Loyalist volunteers who begin
            > firing
            > at them.  When some of the rebels kneel to fire their weapons, the men
            > at
            > the back believe they have been shot and flee in panic, prompting the
            > collapse of the entire rebel column.  It is an auspicious beginning to
            > William Lyon Mackenzie's rebellion in Upper Canada."
            > >   ...
            > >   Peter Monahan
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
            > hundreds of
            > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
            > THOUSANDS of
            > square miles...
            > >
            > > Unit Contact information for North America:
            > >    ---------------------------------
            > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            > >
            > > American Forces Unit Listing
            > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ============================================================
            > >
            > >
            > > Peter Monahan
            > > petermonahan@...
            > > 705-435-0953 home
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
            > hundreds of
            > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
            > THOUSANDS of
            > square miles...
            > >
            > > Unit Contact information for North America:
            > >    ---------------------------------
            > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            > >
            > > American Forces Unit Listing
            > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --
            > > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            > > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date:
            > 05/12/05
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
            > of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
            > THOUSANDS of square miles...
            >
            > Unit Contact information for North America:
            >    ---------------------------------
            > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            >
            > American Forces Unit Listing
            > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            >
            >
            <image.tiff>
            >
            > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            >
            > +  Visit your group "WarOf1812" on the web.
            >  
            > +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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            >  
            > +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            >
            >
            <image.tiff>
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Peter Monahan
            Vic Yes, the Lower Canadian rebellion was a horse of a different colour entirely - pitched battles, buildings cleared at bayonet point and artillery shelling
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 5, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Vic

              Yes, the Lower Canadian rebellion was a horse of a different colour entirely - pitched battles, buildings cleared at bayonet point and artillery shelling chruches as I recall. I can see both why it would be re-enacted and why it still provokes a passionate response!
              Something else for our francophone brethern to remember to our discredit, I'm afraid.

              John

              In a nut shell, both Upper and Lower Canada had representative Assemblies,and British appointed Lt-Governors who in turn appointed the Councils (read "cabints") which made the real decisions. The Governors were not responsible to the assemblies - couldn't be replaced except at London's pleasure - and the Councils represented landed and wealthy interests, not the population at large. In LC (Quebec), of course made wprse by the fact that the Council were either English or "Anglo-loving" Frenchmen.

              The "rebels" were in fact making modest demands even by the standards of the time - "representative government" - and would likely have gotten it in another few years if they hadn't chosen to march instead of just editoralizing and speechifying. (My sympathy is with them, BTW, I'd have marched too!).

              Some of the rebels escaped to the US and raided back into Canada in the summer of'38, raising tensions between the 2 countries before they were suppressed. As it was, a number of the French were killed in battle, 12 were hanged and 60 transported to Australia where they were roughly used by the patriotic criminal classes of England. A number of the Upper Cdn rebels were tried and transported too.

              The grandson of W. L. Mackenzie, W.L.M. King, became Prime Minister of Canada in the 1920's & '30's and proudly displayed the wanted poster for his G.dad to the King of England when he visited! A small but key step in our march to nationhood.

              Peter


              ============================================================
              From: John Ogden <johnjogden@...>
              Date: 2005/12/05 Mon PM 06:23:54 EST
              To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37 Rebellion?"

              All-
              In yet another moment of American ignorance, what sparked this
              rebellion? I presume that this was part of a larger campaign about which we
              south of the 49th Parallel are not taught.

              Yours,
              John Ogden


              On 12/5/05, suthren@... <suthren@...> wrote:
              >
              > In 1987 a re-enactment of the 1837 Rebellion was staged at St. Denis,
              > where
              > a party of mixed francophone and anglophone Canadian rebels led by an
              > anglophone (Dr. Wolfred Nelson), and many veterans of the War of 1812,
              > defeated a British line regiment in a sharp fight and sent them retiring
              > in
              > some disorder (The Canadian rebels picked up and cared for the abandoned
              > Brit wounded after the battle. When the Brits returned some months later
              > they reclaimed the convalescing wounded and then burned out the farmers
              > who
              > had sheltered them). The re-enactment aroused so many latent passions that
              > a
              > fist fight broke out between some of the 'British' and 'rebel'
              > re-enactors.
              > A red coat is still not welcome in the Richelieu Valley, and with good
              > reason.
              >
              > Vic Suthren
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Peter Monahan" <petemonahan@...>
              > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 5:31 PM
              > Subject: Re: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
              > Rebellion?"
              >
              >
              > > Gord
              > >
              > > For the open field part we'd have to go a leedle furder north - like
              > King
              > City! (Ironically, or perhaps not, "King City" - 40km/25miles n of C of
              > Kn.Universe - is mostly fields.)
              > >
              > > Ian - was the timing thing a reference to our election, or just the
              > weather? :7)
              > >
              > > P
              > > ============================================================
              > > From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>
              > > Date: 2005/12/05 Mon PM 04:39:01 EST
              > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Subject: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
              > Rebellion?"
              > >
              > > Peter;
              > >
              > > What a great scenario. Imagine the entire line scattering across an
              > open
              > field shouting "Run away! Run away!". And think of the public crowd, all
              > better armed than the re-enactors, with some of them getting carried away
              > and "poppin' caps in the air" (or worse).
              > >
              > > The re-enactment would go down in history as the "Yonge Street Races".
              > Hoo-Aahhh! I love the smell of black powder in the morning.
              > >
              > > Isn't it great to be Canadian.
              > >
              > > Gord Deans, Royal Navy [1812-14]
              > > In winter quarters on the Upper Thames, Upper Canada
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: peter monahan
              > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
              > > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:40 PM
              > > Subject: [WarOf1812] On This Day in Canadian Military History
              > > ...
              > > "Battle of Yonge Street. A group of "revolutionaries" are marching
              > down
              > Yonge Street in Toronto and are met by Loyalist volunteers who begin
              > firing
              > at them. When some of the rebels kneel to fire their weapons, the men at
              > the back believe they have been shot and flee in panic, prompting the
              > collapse of the entire rebel column. It is an auspicious beginning to
              > William Lyon Mackenzie's rebellion in Upper Canada."
              > > ...
              > > Peter Monahan
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
              > of
              > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
              > of
              > square miles...
              > >
              > > Unit Contact information for North America:
              > > ---------------------------------
              > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              > >
              > > American Forces Unit Listing
              > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ============================================================
              > >
              > >
              > > Peter Monahan
              > > petermonahan@...
              > > 705-435-0953 home
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
              > of
              > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
              > of
              > square miles...
              > >
              > > Unit Contact information for North America:
              > > ---------------------------------
              > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              > >
              > > American Forces Unit Listing
              > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --
              > > No virus found in this incoming message.
              > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              > > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date:
              > 05/12/05
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
              > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
              > square miles...
              >
              > Unit Contact information for North America:
              > ---------------------------------
              > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              >
              > American Forces Unit Listing
              > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >


              --
              Fortuna audentes favorit.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

              Unit Contact information for North America:
              ---------------------------------
              Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

              American Forces Unit Listing
              http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              Yahoo! Groups Links





              ============================================================
            • ray hobbs
              List: To bring this back to 1812 (and, it does have a connection) some members of the 41st Regiment, such as Captain Fuller, Paymaster Raye and Lieut., Thomas
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 5, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                List:
                To bring this back to 1812 (and, it does have a connection) some
                members of the 41st Regiment, such as Captain Fuller, Paymaster Raye
                and Lieut., Thomas Taylor, were all close friends of the men who would
                later rebel against the Government.
                In 1811 Taylor even acted as second to William Warren Baldwin, a leader
                of the later rebels, against MacDonnell, Brock's AdC in a duel. Their
                sympathies were clearly with the Irish lower middle class in Upper
                Canada, who condemned "that damned Scottish Faction" at York. Many of
                these officers came from, or had contact with the same lower middle
                class Irish Protestants.
                The interesting thing is that following the war, all of these officers
                declared themselves against the rebels. I am interested in trying to
                find out why this was.
                I am working on an extended article on Taylor, and will hope to have it
                published in the near future.
                If members of any other Irish Regiments in 1812 (Kevin W.etc) have any
                light to shed on this - t'would be welcome.
                Yrs etc.
                Ray Hobbs
                CO 41st Regt.

                On Monday, December 5, 2005, at 06:44 PM, Peter Monahan wrote:

                > Vic
                >
                > Yes, the Lower Canadian rebellion was a horse of a different colour
                > entirely - pitched battles, buildings cleared at bayonet point and
                > artillery shelling chruches as I recall.  I can see both why it would
                > be re-enacted and why it still provokes a passionate response!
                > Something else for our francophone brethern to remember to our
                > discredit, I'm afraid.
                >
                > John
                >
                > In a nut shell, both Upper and Lower Canada had representative
                > Assemblies,and British appointed Lt-Governors who in turn appointed
                > the Councils (read "cabints") which made the real decisions.  The
                > Governors were not responsible to the assemblies - couldn't be
                > replaced except at London's pleasure - and the Councils represented
                > landed and wealthy interests, not the population at large.  In LC
                > (Quebec), of course made wprse by the fact that the Council were
                > either English or "Anglo-loving" Frenchmen.
                >
                > The "rebels" were in fact making modest demands even by the standards
                > of the time - "representative government" - and would likely have
                > gotten it in another few years if they hadn't chosen to march instead
                > of just editoralizing and speechifying.  (My sympathy is with them,
                > BTW, I'd have marched too!).
                >
                > Some of the rebels escaped to the US and raided back into Canada in
                > the summer of'38, raising tensions between the 2 countries before they
                > were suppressed.  As it was, a number of the French were killed in
                > battle, 12 were hanged and 60 transported to Australia where they were
                > roughly used by the patriotic criminal classes of England.  A number
                > of the Upper Cdn rebels were tried and transported too.
                >
                > The grandson of W. L. Mackenzie, W.L.M. King, became Prime Minister of
                > Canada in the 1920's & '30's and proudly displayed the wanted poster
                > for his G.dad to the King of England when he visited!  A small but key
                > step in our march to nationhood.
                >
                > Peter
                >
                >
                > ============================================================
                > From: John Ogden <johnjogden@...>
                > Date: 2005/12/05 Mon PM 06:23:54 EST
                > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
                > Rebellion?"
                >
                > All-
                >      In yet another moment of American ignorance, what sparked this
                > rebellion?  I presume that this was part of a larger campaign about
                > which we
                > south of the 49th Parallel are not taught.
                >
                > Yours,
                > John Ogden
                >
                >
                > On 12/5/05, suthren@... <suthren@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > In 1987 a re-enactment of the 1837 Rebellion was staged at St. Denis,
                > > where
                > > a party of mixed francophone and anglophone Canadian rebels led by an
                > > anglophone (Dr. Wolfred Nelson), and many veterans of the War of
                > 1812,
                > > defeated a British line regiment in a sharp fight and sent them
                > retiring
                > > in
                > > some disorder (The Canadian rebels picked up and cared for the
                > abandoned
                > > Brit wounded after the battle. When the Brits returned some months
                > later
                > > they reclaimed the convalescing wounded and then burned out the
                > farmers
                > > who
                > > had sheltered them). The re-enactment aroused so many latent
                > passions that
                > > a
                > > fist fight broke out between some of the 'British' and 'rebel'
                > > re-enactors.
                > > A red coat is still not welcome in the Richelieu Valley, and with
                > good
                > > reason.
                > >
                > > Vic Suthren
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: "Peter Monahan" <petemonahan@...>
                > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                > > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 5:31 PM
                > > Subject: Re: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
                > > Rebellion?"
                > >
                > >
                > > > Gord
                > > >
                > > > For the open field part we'd have to go a leedle furder north -
                > like
                > > King
                > > City!  (Ironically, or perhaps not, "King City" - 40km/25miles n of
                > C of
                > > Kn.Universe - is mostly fields.)
                > > >
                > > > Ian - was the timing thing a reference to our election, or just the
                > > weather?  :7)
                > > >
                > > > P
                > > > ============================================================
                > > > From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>
                > > > Date: 2005/12/05 Mon PM 04:39:01 EST
                > > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                > > > Subject: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
                > > Rebellion?"
                > > >
                > > > Peter;
                > > >
                > > > What a great scenario.  Imagine the entire line scattering across
                > an
                > > open
                > > field shouting "Run away! Run away!".  And think of the public
                > crowd, all
                > > better armed than the re-enactors, with some of them getting carried
                > away
                > > and "poppin' caps in the air" (or worse).
                > > >
                > > > The re-enactment would go down in history as the "Yonge Street
                > Races".
                > > Hoo-Aahhh!  I love the smell of black powder in the morning.
                > > >
                > > > Isn't it great to be Canadian.
                > > >
                > > > Gord Deans, Royal Navy [1812-14]
                > > > In winter quarters on the Upper Thames, Upper Canada
                > > >   ----- Original Message -----
                > > >   From: peter monahan
                > > >   To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                > > >   Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:40 PM
                > > >   Subject: [WarOf1812] On This Day in Canadian Military History
                > > >   ...
                > > >   "Battle of Yonge Street.  A group of "revolutionaries" are
                > marching
                > > down
                > > Yonge Street in Toronto and are met by Loyalist volunteers who begin
                > > firing
                > > at them.  When some of the rebels kneel to fire their weapons, the
                > men at
                > > the back believe they have been shot and flee in panic, prompting the
                > > collapse of the entire rebel column.  It is an auspicious beginning
                > to
                > > William Lyon Mackenzie's rebellion in Upper Canada."
                > > >   ...
                > > >   Peter Monahan
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                > hundreds
                > > of
                > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                > THOUSANDS
                > > of
                > > square miles...
                > > >
                > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                > > >    ---------------------------------
                > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                > > >
                > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ============================================================
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Peter Monahan
                > > > petermonahan@...
                > > > 705-435-0953 home
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                > hundreds
                > > of
                > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                > THOUSANDS
                > > of
                > > square miles...
                > > >
                > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                > > >    ---------------------------------
                > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                > > >
                > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --
                > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                > > > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date:
                > > 05/12/05
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                > hundreds of
                > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                > THOUSANDS of
                > > square miles...
                > >
                > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                > >   ---------------------------------
                > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                > >
                > > American Forces Unit Listing
                > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > --
                > Fortuna audentes favorit.
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
                > of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                > THOUSANDS of square miles...
                >
                > Unit Contact information for North America:
                >    ---------------------------------
                > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                >
                > American Forces Unit Listing
                > http://usforces1812.tripod.com 
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ============================================================
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
                > of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                > THOUSANDS of square miles...
                >
                > Unit Contact information for North America:
                >    ---------------------------------
                > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                >
                > American Forces Unit Listing
                > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                >
                >
                <image.tiff>
                >
                > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                >
                > +  Visit your group "WarOf1812" on the web.
                >  
                > +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                >  WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >  
                > +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                >
                >
                <image.tiff>
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ian Gardner
                ... Your choice. I m sure the ghost of William Lyon Mackenzie would look on approvingly. :) Ian -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 5, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  >Ian - was the timing thing a reference to our election, or just the
                  >weather? :7)

                  >P


                  Your choice. I'm sure the ghost of William Lyon Mackenzie would look on
                  approvingly. :)

                  Ian

                  --
                  No virus found in this outgoing message.
                  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                  Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date:
                  05/12/2005
                • suthren@magma.ca
                  Dear John After the War of 1812 the British administration in the two Canadas (Upper Canada=Ontario, Lower Canada=Quebec) maintained a colonial system of
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 5, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Dear John

                    After the War of 1812 the British administration in the two Canadas (Upper
                    Canada=Ontario, Lower Canada=Quebec) maintained a colonial system of
                    government that gave vast powers to the Governors and to a social elite who
                    dominated the appointed (not elected) Upper Houses, and who simply ignored
                    the limited-suffrage Lower Houses of the provincial legislatures. The
                    Governors allowed a social elite (British and Anglican) in what later became
                    Ontario to monopolize all political appointments and run the colony for
                    their own benefit. That elite became known as the "Family Compact", and
                    effectively blocked all attempts at greater democratization, aided by the
                    Loyalists who loathed and feared US-style popular democracy under which they
                    had suffered. In Quebec a similar elite, anchored on a pact between the
                    Catholic Church, wealthy French landowners and the British colonial
                    administration, and referred to as the "Chateau Clique", equally blocked
                    progress. Economic strain, outbreaks of disease, population growth and the
                    example of the booming (and, by contrast, turbulent and unruly but
                    unimaginably free) American society to the south led to a comic-opera revolt
                    in Ontario that failed largely due to the innately unrevolutionary instincts
                    of the Ontario population (however real their sense of grievance), and a
                    serious and bloody armed revolt in Quebec that was put down with a
                    never-forgotten savage viciousness by the British military (and English
                    speaking militia from Ontario border regions like Glengarry). The British
                    did enact tardy reforms later that, over years, answered many of the
                    citizen's grievances, but never met others (Canada's Senate is still
                    appointed by the ruling Government and is not accountable to the people,
                    which never fails to astonish Australians and Americans), and in many
                    respects Canadians still have fewer constitional rights tha Americans, and
                    have yet to cross over that psychological barrier that says political power
                    resides entirely within themselves rather than The Crown.

                    Vic Suthren

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "John Ogden" <johnjogden@...>
                    To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 6:23 PM
                    Subject: Re: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
                    Rebellion?"


                    > All-
                    > In yet another moment of American ignorance, what sparked this
                    > rebellion? I presume that this was part of a larger campaign about which
                    we
                    > south of the 49th Parallel are not taught.
                    >
                    > Yours,
                    > John Ogden
                    >
                    >
                    > On 12/5/05, suthren@... <suthren@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > In 1987 a re-enactment of the 1837 Rebellion was staged at St. Denis,
                    > > where
                    > > a party of mixed francophone and anglophone Canadian rebels led by an
                    > > anglophone (Dr. Wolfred Nelson), and many veterans of the War of 1812,
                    > > defeated a British line regiment in a sharp fight and sent them retiring
                    > > in
                    > > some disorder (The Canadian rebels picked up and cared for the abandoned
                    > > Brit wounded after the battle. When the Brits returned some months later
                    > > they reclaimed the convalescing wounded and then burned out the farmers
                    > > who
                    > > had sheltered them). The re-enactment aroused so many latent passions
                    that
                    > > a
                    > > fist fight broke out between some of the 'British' and 'rebel'
                    > > re-enactors.
                    > > A red coat is still not welcome in the Richelieu Valley, and with good
                    > > reason.
                    > >
                    > > Vic Suthren
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: "Peter Monahan" <petemonahan@...>
                    > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 5:31 PM
                    > > Subject: Re: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
                    > > Rebellion?"
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > > Gord
                    > > >
                    > > > For the open field part we'd have to go a leedle furder north - like
                    > > King
                    > > City! (Ironically, or perhaps not, "King City" - 40km/25miles n of C of
                    > > Kn.Universe - is mostly fields.)
                    > > >
                    > > > Ian - was the timing thing a reference to our election, or just the
                    > > weather? :7)
                    > > >
                    > > > P
                    > > > ============================================================
                    > > > From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>
                    > > > Date: 2005/12/05 Mon PM 04:39:01 EST
                    > > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > > Subject: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
                    > > Rebellion?"
                    > > >
                    > > > Peter;
                    > > >
                    > > > What a great scenario. Imagine the entire line scattering across an
                    > > open
                    > > field shouting "Run away! Run away!". And think of the public crowd,
                    all
                    > > better armed than the re-enactors, with some of them getting carried
                    away
                    > > and "poppin' caps in the air" (or worse).
                    > > >
                    > > > The re-enactment would go down in history as the "Yonge Street Races".
                    > > Hoo-Aahhh! I love the smell of black powder in the morning.
                    > > >
                    > > > Isn't it great to be Canadian.
                    > > >
                    > > > Gord Deans, Royal Navy [1812-14]
                    > > > In winter quarters on the Upper Thames, Upper Canada
                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > > From: peter monahan
                    > > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:40 PM
                    > > > Subject: [WarOf1812] On This Day in Canadian Military History
                    > > > ...
                    > > > "Battle of Yonge Street. A group of "revolutionaries" are marching
                    > > down
                    > > Yonge Street in Toronto and are met by Loyalist volunteers who begin
                    > > firing
                    > > at them. When some of the rebels kneel to fire their weapons, the men
                    at
                    > > the back believe they have been shot and flee in panic, prompting the
                    > > collapse of the entire rebel column. It is an auspicious beginning to
                    > > William Lyon Mackenzie's rebellion in Upper Canada."
                    > > > ...
                    > > > Peter Monahan
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
                    > > of
                    > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                    THOUSANDS
                    > > of
                    > > square miles...
                    > > >
                    > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                    > > > ---------------------------------
                    > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                    > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                    > > >
                    > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                    > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ============================================================
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Peter Monahan
                    > > > petermonahan@...
                    > > > 705-435-0953 home
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
                    > > of
                    > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                    THOUSANDS
                    > > of
                    > > square miles...
                    > > >
                    > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                    > > > ---------------------------------
                    > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                    > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                    > > >
                    > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                    > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --
                    > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                    > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                    > > > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date:
                    > > 05/12/05
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
                    of
                    > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                    THOUSANDS of
                    > > square miles...
                    > >
                    > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                    > > ---------------------------------
                    > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                    > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                    > >
                    > > American Forces Unit Listing
                    > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Fortuna audentes favorit.
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                    square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                    square miles...
                    >
                    > Unit Contact information for North America:
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                    > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                    >
                    > American Forces Unit Listing
                    > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > No virus found in this incoming message.
                    > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                    > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date: 05/12/05
                    >
                    >
                  • mccombs98
                    Or what about the battle of Short Hills, Niagara Upper Canada in 37? Still quite virgin territory today. Some St. John s ruins can still be found in the
                    Message 9 of 16 , Dec 5, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Or what about the battle of Short Hills, Niagara Upper Canada in '37?
                      Still quite virgin territory today. Some St. John's ruins can still be
                      found in the undergrowth of the surrounding forest.
                      (I often claim that the road pavement ends at the boundary of St.
                      John's because the Government still holds a grudge:) St. John's exists
                      today in name only.
                      A fight for responsible government, against nepotism, a reaction to the
                      Great Discontent of 1818 (in Niagara anyways), and a hope for
                      representative government (smacking of the still embedded Republican
                      thought of the time - and not only Irish republican thought:).
                      It would be similar to a Longwoods tactical.
                      Murray
                      Short Hills Niagara.

                      Peter Monahan <petemonahan@s...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Gord
                      >
                      > For the open field part we'd have to go a leedle furder north - like King City! (Ironically, or perhaps not, "King City" - 40km/25miles n of C of Kn.Universe - is mostly fields.)
                      >
                      > Ian - was the timing thing a reference to our election, or just the weather? :7)
                      >
                      > P
                      > ============================================================
                      > From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@s...>
                      > Date: 2005/12/05 Mon PM 04:39:01 EST
                      > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Subject: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37 Rebellion?"
                      >
                      > Peter;
                      >
                      > What a great scenario. Imagine the entire line scattering across an open field shouting "Run away! Run away!". And think of the public crowd, all better armed than the re-enactors, with some of them getting carried away and "poppin' caps in the air" (or worse).
                      >
                      > The re-enactment would go down in history as the "Yonge Street Races". Hoo-Aahhh! I love the smell of black powder in the morning.
                      >
                      > Isn't it great to be Canadian.
                      >
                      > Gord Deans, Royal Navy [1812-14]
                      > In winter quarters on the Upper Thames, Upper Canada
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: peter monahan
                      > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:40 PM
                      > Subject: [WarOf1812] On This Day in Canadian Military History
                      > ...
                      > "Battle of Yonge Street. A group of "revolutionaries" are marching down Yonge Street in Toronto and are met by Loyalist volunteers who begin firing at them. When some of the rebels kneel to fire their weapons, the men at the back believe they have been shot and flee in panic, prompting the collapse of the entire rebel column. It is an auspicious beginning to William Lyon Mackenzie's rebellion in Upper Canada."
                      > ...
                      > Peter Monahan
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
                      >
                      > Unit Contact information for North America:
                      > ---------------------------------
                      > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                      > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                      >
                      > American Forces Unit Listing
                      > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ============================================================
                      >
                      >
                      > Peter Monahan
                      > petermonahan@s...
                      > 705-435-0953 home
                      >
                    • mccombs98
                      Well said Sir!
                      Message 10 of 16 , Dec 5, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Well said Sir!

                        <suthren@m...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Dear John
                        >
                        > After the War of 1812 the British administration in the two Canadas (Upper
                        > Canada=Ontario, Lower Canada=Quebec) maintained a colonial system of
                        > government that gave vast powers to the Governors and to a social elite who
                        > dominated the appointed (not elected) Upper Houses, and who simply ignored
                        > the limited-suffrage Lower Houses of the provincial legislatures. The
                        > Governors allowed a social elite (British and Anglican) in what later became
                        > Ontario to monopolize all political appointments and run the colony for
                        > their own benefit. That elite became known as the "Family Compact", and
                        > effectively blocked all attempts at greater democratization, aided by the
                        > Loyalists who loathed and feared US-style popular democracy under which they
                        > had suffered. In Quebec a similar elite, anchored on a pact between the
                        > Catholic Church, wealthy French landowners and the British colonial
                        > administration, and referred to as the "Chateau Clique", equally blocked
                        > progress. Economic strain, outbreaks of disease, population growth and the
                        > example of the booming (and, by contrast, turbulent and unruly but
                        > unimaginably free) American society to the south led to a comic-opera revolt
                        > in Ontario that failed largely due to the innately unrevolutionary instincts
                        > of the Ontario population (however real their sense of grievance), and a
                        > serious and bloody armed revolt in Quebec that was put down with a
                        > never-forgotten savage viciousness by the British military (and English
                        > speaking militia from Ontario border regions like Glengarry). The British
                        > did enact tardy reforms later that, over years, answered many of the
                        > citizen's grievances, but never met others (Canada's Senate is still
                        > appointed by the ruling Government and is not accountable to the people,
                        > which never fails to astonish Australians and Americans), and in many
                        > respects Canadians still have fewer constitional rights tha Americans, and
                        > have yet to cross over that psychological barrier that says political power
                        > resides entirely within themselves rather than The Crown.
                        >
                        > Vic Suthren
                      • badger222ca
                        Several years ago, at the Crysler s Farm event, there was somebody from the Prescott, Ont., area talking about organizing a re-enactment of the 1838 Battle of
                        Message 11 of 16 , Dec 6, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Several years ago, at the Crysler's Farm event, there was somebody
                          from the Prescott, Ont., area talking about organizing a re-enactment
                          of the 1838 Battle of the Windmill. Does anybody know who this was and
                          what ever became of the proposal?
                          It would be a good scenario and the site is a national park.
                          T. Avery

                          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "mccombs98" <macomb@p...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Or what about the battle of Short Hills, Niagara Upper Canada in '37?
                          > Still quite virgin territory today. Some St. John's ruins can still be
                          > found in the undergrowth of the surrounding forest.
                          > (I often claim that the road pavement ends at the boundary of St.
                          > John's because the Government still holds a grudge:) St. John's exists
                          > today in name only.
                          > A fight for responsible government, against nepotism, a reaction to the
                          > Great Discontent of 1818 (in Niagara anyways), and a hope for
                          > representative government (smacking of the still embedded Republican
                          > thought of the time - and not only Irish republican thought:).
                          > It would be similar to a Longwoods tactical.
                          > Murray
                          > Short Hills Niagara.
                          >
                          > Peter Monahan <petemonahan@s...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Gord
                          > >
                          > > For the open field part we'd have to go a leedle furder north -
                          like King City! (Ironically, or perhaps not, "King City" -
                          40km/25miles n of C of Kn.Universe - is mostly fields.)
                          > >
                          > > Ian - was the timing thing a reference to our election, or just
                          the weather? :7)
                          > >
                          > > P
                          > > ============================================================
                          > > From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@s...>
                          > > Date: 2005/12/05 Mon PM 04:39:01 EST
                          > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > Subject: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37
                          Rebellion?"
                          > >
                          > > Peter;
                          > >
                          > > What a great scenario. Imagine the entire line scattering across
                          an open field shouting "Run away! Run away!". And think of the public
                          crowd, all better armed than the re-enactors, with some of them
                          getting carried away and "poppin' caps in the air" (or worse).
                          > >
                          > > The re-enactment would go down in history as the "Yonge Street
                          Races". Hoo-Aahhh! I love the smell of black powder in the morning.
                          > >
                          > > Isn't it great to be Canadian.
                          > >
                          > > Gord Deans, Royal Navy [1812-14]
                          > > In winter quarters on the Upper Thames, Upper Canada
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: peter monahan
                          > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:40 PM
                          > > Subject: [WarOf1812] On This Day in Canadian Military History
                          > > ...
                          > > "Battle of Yonge Street. A group of "revolutionaries" are
                          marching down Yonge Street in Toronto and are met by Loyalist
                          volunteers who begin firing at them. When some of the rebels kneel to
                          fire their weapons, the men at the back believe they have been shot
                          and flee in panic, prompting the collapse of the entire rebel column.
                          It is an auspicious beginning to William Lyon Mackenzie's rebellion
                          in Upper Canada."
                          > > ...
                          > > Peter Monahan
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                          hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the
                          fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
                          > >
                          > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                          > > ---------------------------------
                          > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                          > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                          > >
                          > > American Forces Unit Listing
                          > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ============================================================
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Peter Monahan
                          > > petermonahan@s...
                          > > 705-435-0953 home
                          > >
                          >
                        • Ian Gardner
                          Don Graves Guns Across the River: The Battle of the Windmill, 1838 covers the subject quite well IMHO and IIRC, includes photos taken during a television
                          Message 12 of 16 , Dec 6, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Don Graves' "Guns Across the River: The Battle of the
                            Windmill, 1838" covers the subject quite well IMHO and
                            IIRC, includes photos taken during a television
                            production about the battle. Has anyone seen this
                            production or was I halucinating? :)

                            Ian


                            --- badger222ca <red.gold@...> wrote:

                            >
                            > Several years ago, at the Crysler's Farm event,
                            > there was somebody
                            > from the Prescott, Ont., area talking about
                            > organizing a re-enactment
                            > of the 1838 Battle of the Windmill. Does anybody
                            > know who this was and
                            > what ever became of the proposal?
                            > It would be a good scenario and the site is a
                            > national park.
                            > T. Avery
                            >
                            > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "mccombs98"
                            > <macomb@p...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Or what about the battle of Short Hills, Niagara
                            > Upper Canada in '37?
                            > > Still quite virgin territory today. Some St.
                            > John's ruins can still be
                            > > found in the undergrowth of the surrounding
                            > forest.
                            > > (I often claim that the road pavement ends at the
                            > boundary of St.
                            > > John's because the Government still holds a
                            > grudge:) St. John's exists
                            > > today in name only.
                            > > A fight for responsible government, against
                            > nepotism, a reaction to the
                            > > Great Discontent of 1818 (in Niagara anyways), and
                            > a hope for
                            > > representative government (smacking of the still
                            > embedded Republican
                            > > thought of the time - and not only Irish
                            > republican thought:).
                            > > It would be similar to a Longwoods tactical.
                            > > Murray
                            > > Short Hills Niagara.
                            > >
                            > > Peter Monahan <petemonahan@s...> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Gord
                            > > >
                            > > > For the open field part we'd have to go a leedle
                            > furder north -
                            > like King City! (Ironically, or perhaps not, "King
                            > City" -
                            > 40km/25miles n of C of Kn.Universe - is mostly
                            > fields.)
                            > > >
                            > > > Ian - was the timing thing a reference to our
                            > election, or just
                            > the weather? :7)
                            > > >
                            > > > P
                            > > >
                            >
                            ============================================================
                            > > > From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@s...>
                            > > > Date: 2005/12/05 Mon PM 04:39:01 EST
                            > > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > > Subject: REPLY: [WarOf1812] "Why doesn't someone
                            > re-enact the '37
                            > Rebellion?"
                            > > >
                            > > > Peter;
                            > > >
                            > > > What a great scenario. Imagine the entire line
                            > scattering across
                            > an open field shouting "Run away! Run away!". And
                            > think of the public
                            > crowd, all better armed than the re-enactors, with
                            > some of them
                            > getting carried away and "poppin' caps in the air"
                            > (or worse).
                            > > >
                            > > > The re-enactment would go down in history as the
                            > "Yonge Street
                            > Races". Hoo-Aahhh! I love the smell of black
                            > powder in the morning.
                            > > >
                            > > > Isn't it great to be Canadian.
                            > > >
                            > > > Gord Deans, Royal Navy [1812-14]
                            > > > In winter quarters on the Upper Thames, Upper
                            > Canada
                            > > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > > From: peter monahan
                            > > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:40 PM
                            > > > Subject: [WarOf1812] On This Day in Canadian
                            > Military History
                            > > > ...
                            > > > "Battle of Yonge Street. A group of
                            > "revolutionaries" are
                            > marching down Yonge Street in Toronto and are met by
                            > Loyalist
                            > volunteers who begin firing at them. When some of
                            > the rebels kneel to
                            > fire their weapons, the men at the back believe they
                            > have been shot
                            > and flee in panic, prompting the collapse of the
                            > entire rebel column.
                            > It is an auspicious beginning to William Lyon
                            > Mackenzie's rebellion
                            > in Upper Canada."
                            > > > ...
                            > > > Peter Monahan
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                            > removed]
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought
                            > over the fate of
                            > hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds
                            > determined the
                            > fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
                            > > >
                            > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                            > > > ---------------------------------
                            > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                            > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                            > > >
                            > > > American Forces Unit Listing
                            > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            >
                            ============================================================
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Peter Monahan
                            > > > petermonahan@s...
                            > > > 705-435-0953 home
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                            > --------------------~-->
                            > Life without art & music? Keep the arts alive today
                            > at Network for Good!
                            >
                            http://us.click.yahoo.com/7zgKlB/dnQLAA/Zx0JAA/PJ_qlB/TM
                            >
                            --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
                            >
                            >
                            > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
                            > the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North
                            > America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
                            > of square miles...
                            >
                            > Unit Contact information for North America:
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                            > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                            >
                            > American Forces Unit Listing
                            > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • HQ93rd@aol.com
                            ... Oooo...I ve always wanted to get all the 93rd there for the Windmill so we could basically march down the road, and then see the rebels coming out to
                            Message 13 of 16 , Dec 7, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              In a message dated 6/12/2005 9:01:19 AM, red.gold@... writes:
                              > Several years ago, at the Crysler's Farm event, there was somebody
                              > from the Prescott, Ont., area talking about organizing a re-enactment
                              > of the 1838 Battle of the Windmill. Does anybody know who this was and
                              > what ever became of the proposal?
                              > It would be a good scenario and the site is a national park.
                              > T. Avery
                              >

                              Oooo...I've always wanted to get all the 93rd there for the Windmill so we
                              could basically march down the road, and then see the rebels coming out to
                              surrender.
                              Now THAT'S fun!
                              ;-)
                              B
                              93rd SHRoFLHU
                              THE Thin Red Line
                              93rdhighlanders.com


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • badger222ca
                              ... Windmill so we ... out to ... With all due respect, there was a bit more to it than that. T. Avery The Battle of the Windmill This windmill structure was
                              Message 14 of 16 , Dec 7, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                > Oooo...I've always wanted to get all the 93rd there for the
                                Windmill so we
                                > could basically march down the road, and then see the rebels coming
                                out to
                                > surrender.
                                > Now THAT'S fun!
                                > ;-)
                                > B
                                > 93rd SHRoFLHU
                                > THE Thin Red Line
                                > 93rdhighlanders.com

                                With all due respect, there was a bit more to it than that.
                                T. Avery

                                The Battle of the Windmill

                                This windmill structure was constructed in the 1830's as a grist mill
                                for grinding grain. In November of 1838, it was the site of the
                                Battle of the Windmill, fought between approximately 200 insurgents
                                from the United States sympathetic to the 1837 Rebellions in Canada
                                and local militia and British soldiers.

                                The New York Hunters, led by "General" John Ward Birge, assembled at
                                the Lake Ontario port of Sacket's Harbour for an attack on Fort
                                Wellington, Prescott. The British had been alerted to their
                                activities and the reconstruction of Fort Wellington was authorized.

                                The Battle

                                On November 12th, two schooners approached Prescott with the
                                Americans. They attempted to land at Prescott Wharf. However, the
                                customs inspector, Alpheus Jones, sounded the alarm. The two
                                schooners took off and one ran aground at Windmill Point. With the
                                defection of General Birge who claimed sickness and retired to the
                                American shore with 100 men, command now fell to Nils Von Schoultz, a
                                Swedish-Pole, 31 years of age. He envisaged a quick victory but he
                                would soon find out differently for he had stumbled into a hotbed of
                                Loyalism. He could not have found a more unfriendly population.

                                Schoultz thought the mill, with its height of 80 feet, would be a
                                great place for sniper activity and with its thick stone walls, it
                                would be a veritable fortress.

                                Two hundred invaders took refuge in the mill and in the surrounding
                                stone houses. The mill was a terribly uncomfortable place and they
                                ran out of supplies. The escape routes and supply routes on the
                                river side were blocked by British gun boats and a land attack was
                                launched against them by British regulars and militia on November
                                13th.

                                The first outside help was from Lt. Col. Gowan and his two companies
                                of "Royal Borderers" from Brockville, who appeared about noon.

                                Eventually, 2000 regulars and militia were amassed under the command
                                of Colonel Young . They launched a direct frontal assault on the
                                American position but were beaten back after sustaining heavy
                                casualties, especially from the sharp shooters Von Schultz had placed
                                in the high windmill tower. Von Schoultz and his men were finally
                                pushed back under relentless pressure from the British forces on
                                land. After 4 days of fighting, running short of food and water, with
                                no medical supplies and stunned by the hospitality of the population,
                                the invaders were compelled to surrender on the evening of November
                                16th.

                                Prisoners were taken to Kingston where a lawyer, John A. Mac Donald,
                                was counsel to them. Von Schoultz was hanged at Fort Henry. The
                                British captured 159 prisoners of whom 11 were executed, 3 died of
                                wounds and 60 were convicted and sent to Australia. The remainder
                                who were mere boys, only 15 to 18 years of age, were given their
                                release papers by John MacDonald and sent home to the United States.

                                In all, 48 men were killed and 89 wounded in a vicious battle that
                                helped pave the way to Confederation.

                                This mill was converted into a lighthouse in the 1870's.

                                This site was opened in 1996 and today it is operated, on behalf of
                                Parks Canada, by the Friends of Windmill Point who have just had a
                                fantastic book written, called Guns Across the River (The Battle of
                                the Windmill, 1838) by Donald E. Graves. In this book are
                                approximately 2000 names of everyone who fought in the Battle of the
                                Windmill.

                                Anyone interested in this book, or would like further information,
                                please call 613-925-2896 or write to The Friends of Windmill Point,
                                P.O. Box 479, Prescott, ON, K0E 1T0.

                                References:

                                Parks Canada Pamphlet-The Battle of the Windmill

                                The Battle of the Windmill-K. F. Scott
                              • Robin R. Morris
                                ... somebody ... re-enactment ... this was and ... That person most probably would have been Rene Schoemaker of Prescott, chair of the Friends of the Windmill.
                                Message 15 of 16 , Dec 9, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, HQ93rd@a... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > In a message dated 6/12/2005 9:01:19 AM, red.gold@s...
                                  writes:
                                  > > Several years ago, at the Crysler's Farm event, there was
                                  somebody
                                  > > from the Prescott, Ont., area talking about organizing a
                                  re-enactment
                                  > > of the 1838 Battle of the Windmill. Does anybody know who
                                  this was and
                                  > > what ever became of the proposal?
                                  > > It would be a good scenario and the site is a national park.
                                  > > T. Avery
                                  > >
                                  That person most probably would have been Rene Schoemaker
                                  of Prescott, chair of the Friends of the Windmill. You can reach
                                  Rene at:
                                  olshoes@...

                                  It may take a couple of days for him to respond since he is black
                                  powder deer hunting at the moment.

                                  Regards

                                  Robin Morris
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