Re: [WarOf1812] Pub + Re-enactment - Clarification
- 'Course, if you really wanted to get press attention,
now would be just the perfect time to be doing it
(with or without the musket/beer mixture). :)
--- Tom Fournier <tom4141fournier@...> wrote:
> Pub for the afterwards of course! I am nothttp://us.click.yahoo.com/7zgKlB/dnQLAA/Zx0JAA/PJ_qlB/TM
> advocating a pint and then
> a musket loaded with powder.
> Just wanted to clarify ...
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> The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
> the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North
> America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
> of square miles...
> Unit Contact information for North America:
> Crown Forces Unit Listing:
> American Forces Unit Listing
> Yahoo! Groups Links
Montgomery's Tavern just north of what is now the corner of Yonge & Eglinton was wher the two "forces" met, although I'm not sure either was parttaking in Mr M's establishment. (been a while since I read this up). There's now a post office with bronze plaque commemorating the "battle" at the site - two short blocks n of Eg, west side, for those who live at the center of the known universe.
From: "Tom Fournier" <tom4141fournier@...>
Date: 2005/12/05 Mon PM 04:04:46 EST
Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: On This Day in Canadian Military History
"Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37 Rebellion?"
>Wasn't there a pub involved? A great place to plan a rebellion and/or
> '"Battle of Yonge Street."
The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
Unit Contact information for North America:
Crown Forces Unit Listing:
American Forces Unit Listing
Yahoo! Groups Links
- From: "Tom Fournier" <tom4141fournier@...>
"Why doesn't someone re-enact the '37 Rebellion?" '"Battle of Yonge
Tom another Pub Battle was the War between Michigan and Ohio
The mouth of the Maumee River at Toledo on Lake Erie was the prize in the
1835 war between Ohio and the Michigan Territory.
The war between Michigan and Ohio
By Tom Jones / special to The Detroit News
It was a "war" that both Ohio and Michigan could rightfully claim they
won, a one-casualty conflict in which the only blood drawn came from a knife
thrust into the leg of a Michigan sheriff.
It was the Toledo War, a hotly contentious boundary dispute when it
began in April, 1835, but now a source of amusement to many whose only
knowledge of the war is from flawed accounts of the event. Historian Tom
Most ask why anyone would fight Ohio over Toledo -- especially since
Michigan got the Upper Peninsula as consolation for losing the argument.
The late Tom Jones, former director of the Historical Society of
Michigan, called that a "common, hindsight reaction built on a
misconception. It ignores a couple of points."
First, Toledo as a significant entity didn't exist in 1835. And
second, when the boundary arguement was settled, Michigan didn't get the
Upper Peninsula in exchange, it got only the western end of the peninsula --
the eastern end had long been considered part of Michigan, Jones said.
In 1835 Ohio had been a state since 1803. The Michigan territory's
population numberted only about 6,000. Ohioans, who thought of the territory
as unclaimed wilderness that they could more or less annex at will, claimed
their boundary ran along a line north of the Maumee River. That assured
Ohioans in the region of access to Lake Erie, an obviously important
The claim conflicted with Congresssional guidelines for carving up the
western lands as established in the Northwest Ordinance of 1787. But who
But as the population of the Michigan territory grew, its officials
also perceived the advantages of controlling the mouth of the Maumee. Plus,
they had legal ground for this claim. It seemed quite clear that according
to the Northwest Ordinance the boundary should be drawn from the tip of Lake
Michigan eastward to Lake Erie, which would put the mouth of the Maumee in
Michigan. Stevens T. Mason, governor of Michigan Territory
When Michigan petitioned to become a state in 1835, Ohio began putting
pressure on Congress in support of its claim to a boundary line extending to
North Cape in Maumee Bay. Michigan objected. Ohio insisted.
During the dispute, confusion reigned. People addressing letters to
villages in the disputed territory sometimes gave the address as Ohio,
sometimes as Michigan. At least one letter was addressed to someone in the
"State of Confusion."
"As with all such matters, the issue wasn't simple. It involved
presidential politics, party alliances, poor maps, pride, and more," says
"I contend that the solution was political," he said. "Had the matter
gone to the Supreme Court, it probably would have been resolved in
Michigan's favor. But President (Andrew) Jackson didn't want that. The year
1836 was an election year. He was courting Ohio's electoral votes, and he
worked out a political compromise."
But before that could be reached, the war began.
In February, Ohio's legislature voted to extend the state's
jurisdiction over the Toledo Strip. Michigan Territory Gov. Stevens T. Mason
responded that he would not hesitate "to resist to the utmost every
encroachment or invasion upon the rights and soil of this territory."
Ohio Gov. Robert Lucas, calling Mason's supposed bluff, showed up at
Perrysburg, Ohio, along with 300 Ohio militiamen. Meanwhile, Gov. Mason
marched to Monroe from Detroit, the territorial capital, with a "posse" of
sheriff's deputies, who actually were Michigan militiamen.
"Men galloping about--guns getting ready--wagons being filled with
people and hurrying off, and everybody in commotion. The two armies
struggled for a soggy week to find each other in the wilderness and swamps
surrounding the region, but never did come in contact."
When elements from Michigan and Ohio did meet, however, Michigan
started the shooting. President Jackson had asked Gov. Mason to let Ohio
commissioners run a survey of the disputed boundary line to just north of
the Point Place. Gov. Mason refused. Ohio Gov. Robert Lucas
When Gov. Lucas sent his surveyors out on April 26, a Michigan posse
under Lenawee County Undersheriff William McNair met them. The undersheriff
demanded that the Ohioans leave Michigan territory. They refused and shots
No one was hit. But members of the surveying crew were arrested and
charged with violating the Pains and Penalties Act, which prohibited Ohioans
from exercising any authority in Michigan.
Under Gov. Mason's orders, Gen. Jacob. W. Brown of Tecumseh combed the
disputed territory, arresting Ohio officials, including the entire family of
Maj. Benjamin Franklin Stickney. The Major was tied to his horse for the
trip to the Monroe County Jail.
Maj. Stickney's son, named Two (he had a brother named One), made a
dramatic attempt to rescue his father by drawing a knife and lunging at
Monroe County Sheriff Joseph Wood, wounding him in the thigh and drawing the
only blood in the Toledo War.
Congress eventually approved a bill admitting Michigan to statehood on
the condition that it accept the northern boundary line, which effectively
ended the matter. Or so everyone thought. As recently as 1972, the U.S.
Supreme Court heard arguments from attorneys who still maintain that Toledo
belongs in Michigan. But most Toledo War buffs consider that a footnote to
A plaque dedicated in 1967 marks the spot in Ann Arbor where delegates met
to consider the proposal by Congress that ended the conflict between
Michigan and Ohio. From left are State Rep. Roy Smith of Ypsilanti, Jen
Cotter of Elyria, Ohio, and Terry Pray of Charlotte, Mich. Cotter and Pray
are descendants of participants in the assembly.
(This story was compiled using clip and photo files of the Detroit News.)
As Mr. Hobbs has said ... "back to 1812"