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[WarOf1812] 2 Muskets for Sale

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  • Larry Maxwell
    Greetings, I have two 3rd Model Brown Bess reproduction Muskets for sale. We have used thme faithfully in our Rev War unit and they are great shooters. Thye
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 4, 2005
      Greetings,
      I have two 3rd Model Brown Bess reproduction Muskets for sale. We have
      used thme faithfully in our Rev War unit and they are great shooters.
      Thye are really more appropriate for War of 1812 than they are for Rev
      War. I have pictures I can forward. One is $500 and one is $600, plus
      shipping (or you can pick it up). Feel free to contact me off list.
      Have a Great Day!
      Dr. Larry A. Maxwell
      Living History Guild
    • Craig Williams
      Bueller? Bueller?...sorry, Colin, You ARE being picky but that s what we re all supposed to be here for. As to your query, I am not sure about the US system,
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 4, 2005
        Bueller? Bueller?...sorry, Colin,

        You ARE being picky but that's what we're all supposed to be here for.
        As to your query, I am not sure about the US system, and I am always
        glad to learn something new,but I had understood it to mean the three
        items .
        The dictionary says that it is "musket, bayonet , cartridge box and
        belt. Frequently as musket and bayonet only." So, take your pick....
        I agree that carriages and beltplates are accoutrements.
        Taking that into consideration, and more to my point, when the arms
        were captured, so were the accoutrements, and the question was
        referring to, among other items, "belly boxes". I was ,in fact,
        trying to provide a possible explanation as to their origin.

        Craig Williams
      • Tom Fournier
        Accoutrements or appointments aside, a number of times large numbers of US arms were captured in actions associated with the 41st. Certainly at Detroit and
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 4, 2005
          Accoutrements or appointments aside, a number of times large numbers
          of US arms were captured in actions associated with the 41st.
          Certainly at Detroit and also at Queenston Heights.

          I recall reading a District General Order in the Niagara area (in
          William Woods I believe) that had the militia units come together so
          that they could sort out their muskets. The desire was to have
          uniformity (is that a word?) in their muskets - for example, one
          group would have all captured US arms, another would have British
          issued arms. This way the ammunition could be kept straight.

          In terms of the fuzils in the 41st's 1814 return, it is my opinion
          that they were Sergeant's muskets for the light infantry.

          I believe it was Gord Deans and Phil Graf who pointed out the
          existence of a Sergeant's India Pattern musket - shorter and smaller
          calibre than the standard India Pattern. I have gone searching and
          have found references to the light company's Sergeants having
          carried muskets but also the continued use of spontoons by Sergeants
          for line and grenadier companies. There is also a return that I
          came across for the 41st showing a request for 4 slings for
          Sergeant's firelocks.

          In 1812 the 41st were granted a second battalion, so if there were
          two light companies in Canada in 1813, that could double the number
          of Sergeant's muskets.

          How many Sergeants would be in an regiment? The return seemed to
          indicate 44 but this would include the colour party.

          What if the other NCOs of the light company also had these
          Sergeant's muskets? Could we be getting close to the 29 fuzils?

          Also, I would ask everyone to recall the situation the 41st were
          in. They had two battalions in Canada. These were hard used units
          in lots of actions with a number of casualties and prisoners. They
          could only account for 500 muskets out of a suggested strength of
          900 men. They had 1300 men at least on paper in 1812. If the
          expectation of the Board of Ordnance was that a musket was to last
          12 years, then they had a serious shortfall! Out of desperation,
          could they have resorted to American arms knowing that ammunition
          for the Sergeant's muskets would work? I suppose it is possible.

          I guess the need is to find a return that clearly indicates the type
          of muskets that a regiment had. The search shall continue.

          Anyways lots of clues that got us tantalizingly close to an answer
          but yet with no resolution. All the same an interesting topic!

          Thank you for the thoughts, ideas and opinions.

          Your most humble and obedient servant,

          Tom Fournier
          41st Regiment of Foot
        • Craig Williams
          Larry, Can you please send me the images? Craig
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 5, 2005
            Larry,

            Can you please send me the images?

            Craig
            On 4-Dec-05, at 6:44 PM, Larry Maxwell wrote:

            > Greetings,
            > I have two 3rd Model Brown Bess reproduction Muskets for sale. We
            > have
            > used thme faithfully in our Rev War unit and they are great shooters.
            > Thye are really more appropriate for War of 1812 than they are for Rev
            > War. I have pictures I can forward. One is $500 and one is $600, plus
            > shipping (or you can pick it up). Feel free to contact me off list.
            > Have a Great Day!
            > Dr. Larry A. Maxwell
            > Living History Guild
            >
            >
            >
            >
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          • lalozon
            From: Gordon Deans The most common number given for captured stands of arms at Detroit (1812) is 2500. Remember also that I came
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 5, 2005
              From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>

              The most common number given for captured stands of arms at Detroit (1812)
              is 2500. Remember also that I came across a number of references which
              reported that militia units is western Upper Canada were known to be
              equipped with actual French muskets from British arsenals (which were so
              listed) at the beginning of 1812.





              In the Militia Return dated 24 March 1813, the Fifth Company of the 1st
              Regiment, Kent Militia commanded by Captain John Dolsen. This was a Rifle
              Company with one hundred and sixteen issued government rifles and thirty
              additional privately owned rifles.

              In another Militia Return dated (??) [I don't have the date at hand] it
              reports that the 1st Regiment, Kent Militia were issues British Military
              muskets with an auxiliary issue of US Military muskets from the fall of Fort
              Detroit.

              It seems the Kents were issued Government arms

              For those not from North America, Kent County is in South Western Ontario
              approx. 45 miles from Windsor which is across the river from Detroit. It is
              now the regional government of Chatham-Kent


              Yrs.,
              L2
            • dancingbobd@webtv.net
              Greetings, I am far from being an authority on Stand of Arms. In 1803 the papers transferring Private John Potts to Capt. M. Lewis for the L & C expedition
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 5, 2005
                Greetings,

                I am far from being an authority on Stand of Arms.

                In 1803 the papers transferring Private John Potts to Capt. M. Lewis for
                the L & C expedition consisted of one listing his clothing and one
                listing musket, bayonet & scabbard, cartridge box, belt plate. flints
                and I think 12 cartridges. Would seem to describe a stand of arms to
                me. Steve or Dave, help me here!

                Regards,

                Bob Dorian
                [seldom a pvt. soldier]
              • md5_yager
                In several arms shipment documents dated during the American Rev War, stand of arms references include separate identification of a identical number of
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 5, 2005
                  In several arms shipment documents dated during the American Rev
                  War, "stand of arms" references include separate identification of a
                  identical number of 'cartouche boxes', e.g. 300 stand of arms, 300
                  cartouche boxes; twelve hundred stand of arms, twelve hundred cartouche
                  boxes, etc. Flints, powder, lead are identified separately. The
                  references do not separately identify bayonets, carriages, etc.

                  There seems to be only one interpretation, i.e. a "stand of arms" is
                  one musket (and presumably also its bayonet). As the colonies were
                  British, it seems certain their use of the term would be identical to
                  the use of the term in the rest of the Empire.

                  Dave
                  --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, dancingbobd@w... wrote:
                  >
                  > Greetings,
                  >
                  > I am far from being an authority on Stand of Arms.
                  >
                  > In 1803 the papers transferring Private John Potts to Capt. M. Lewis
                  for
                  > the L & C expedition consisted of one listing his clothing and one
                  > listing musket, bayonet & scabbard, cartridge box, belt plate. flints
                  > and I think 12 cartridges. Would seem to describe a stand of arms to
                  > me. Steve or Dave, help me here!
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  >
                  > Bob Dorian
                  > [seldom a pvt. soldier]
                  >
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