[WarOf1812] 2 Muskets for Sale
I have two 3rd Model Brown Bess reproduction Muskets for sale. We have
used thme faithfully in our Rev War unit and they are great shooters.
Thye are really more appropriate for War of 1812 than they are for Rev
War. I have pictures I can forward. One is $500 and one is $600, plus
shipping (or you can pick it up). Feel free to contact me off list.
Have a Great Day!
Dr. Larry A. Maxwell
Living History Guild
- Not to be picky, but is the referal to satnds of arm including
Cartridge boxes a "British thing?"
Because it seems after all my research (100% US) and talking to
others the Stand of Arms only includes Musket and Bayonet. Belts,
Buckles, plates, boxes and scabbards are "accutrements."
- Bueller? Bueller?...sorry, Colin,
You ARE being picky but that's what we're all supposed to be here for.
As to your query, I am not sure about the US system, and I am always
glad to learn something new,but I had understood it to mean the three
The dictionary says that it is "musket, bayonet , cartridge box and
belt. Frequently as musket and bayonet only." So, take your pick....
I agree that carriages and beltplates are accoutrements.
Taking that into consideration, and more to my point, when the arms
were captured, so were the accoutrements, and the question was
referring to, among other items, "belly boxes". I was ,in fact,
trying to provide a possible explanation as to their origin.
- Accoutrements or appointments aside, a number of times large numbers
of US arms were captured in actions associated with the 41st.
Certainly at Detroit and also at Queenston Heights.
I recall reading a District General Order in the Niagara area (in
William Woods I believe) that had the militia units come together so
that they could sort out their muskets. The desire was to have
uniformity (is that a word?) in their muskets - for example, one
group would have all captured US arms, another would have British
issued arms. This way the ammunition could be kept straight.
In terms of the fuzils in the 41st's 1814 return, it is my opinion
that they were Sergeant's muskets for the light infantry.
I believe it was Gord Deans and Phil Graf who pointed out the
existence of a Sergeant's India Pattern musket - shorter and smaller
calibre than the standard India Pattern. I have gone searching and
have found references to the light company's Sergeants having
carried muskets but also the continued use of spontoons by Sergeants
for line and grenadier companies. There is also a return that I
came across for the 41st showing a request for 4 slings for
In 1812 the 41st were granted a second battalion, so if there were
two light companies in Canada in 1813, that could double the number
of Sergeant's muskets.
How many Sergeants would be in an regiment? The return seemed to
indicate 44 but this would include the colour party.
What if the other NCOs of the light company also had these
Sergeant's muskets? Could we be getting close to the 29 fuzils?
Also, I would ask everyone to recall the situation the 41st were
in. They had two battalions in Canada. These were hard used units
in lots of actions with a number of casualties and prisoners. They
could only account for 500 muskets out of a suggested strength of
900 men. They had 1300 men at least on paper in 1812. If the
expectation of the Board of Ordnance was that a musket was to last
12 years, then they had a serious shortfall! Out of desperation,
could they have resorted to American arms knowing that ammunition
for the Sergeant's muskets would work? I suppose it is possible.
I guess the need is to find a return that clearly indicates the type
of muskets that a regiment had. The search shall continue.
Anyways lots of clues that got us tantalizingly close to an answer
but yet with no resolution. All the same an interesting topic!
Thank you for the thoughts, ideas and opinions.
Your most humble and obedient servant,
41st Regiment of Foot
Can you please send me the images?
On 4-Dec-05, at 6:44 PM, Larry Maxwell wrote:
> I have two 3rd Model Brown Bess reproduction Muskets for sale. We
> used thme faithfully in our Rev War unit and they are great shooters.
> Thye are really more appropriate for War of 1812 than they are for Rev
> War. I have pictures I can forward. One is $500 and one is $600, plus
> shipping (or you can pick it up). Feel free to contact me off list.
> Have a Great Day!
> Dr. Larry A. Maxwell
> Living History Guild
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
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> The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
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- From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>
The most common number given for captured stands of arms at Detroit (1812)
is 2500. Remember also that I came across a number of references which
reported that militia units is western Upper Canada were known to be
equipped with actual French muskets from British arsenals (which were so
listed) at the beginning of 1812.
In the Militia Return dated 24 March 1813, the Fifth Company of the 1st
Regiment, Kent Militia commanded by Captain John Dolsen. This was a Rifle
Company with one hundred and sixteen issued government rifles and thirty
additional privately owned rifles.
In another Militia Return dated (??) [I don't have the date at hand] it
reports that the 1st Regiment, Kent Militia were issues British Military
muskets with an auxiliary issue of US Military muskets from the fall of Fort
It seems the Kents were issued Government arms
For those not from North America, Kent County is in South Western Ontario
approx. 45 miles from Windsor which is across the river from Detroit. It is
now the regional government of Chatham-Kent
I am far from being an authority on Stand of Arms.
In 1803 the papers transferring Private John Potts to Capt. M. Lewis for
the L & C expedition consisted of one listing his clothing and one
listing musket, bayonet & scabbard, cartridge box, belt plate. flints
and I think 12 cartridges. Would seem to describe a stand of arms to
me. Steve or Dave, help me here!
[seldom a pvt. soldier]
- In several arms shipment documents dated during the American Rev
War, "stand of arms" references include separate identification of a
identical number of 'cartouche boxes', e.g. 300 stand of arms, 300
cartouche boxes; twelve hundred stand of arms, twelve hundred cartouche
boxes, etc. Flints, powder, lead are identified separately. The
references do not separately identify bayonets, carriages, etc.
There seems to be only one interpretation, i.e. a "stand of arms" is
one musket (and presumably also its bayonet). As the colonies were
British, it seems certain their use of the term would be identical to
the use of the term in the rest of the Empire.
--- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, dancingbobd@w... wrote:
> I am far from being an authority on Stand of Arms.
> In 1803 the papers transferring Private John Potts to Capt. M. Lewis
> the L & C expedition consisted of one listing his clothing and one
> listing musket, bayonet & scabbard, cartridge box, belt plate. flints
> and I think 12 cartridges. Would seem to describe a stand of arms to
> me. Steve or Dave, help me here!
> Bob Dorian
> [seldom a pvt. soldier]