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US arsenals - "spears"

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  • yawors1@uwindsor.ca
    Dave wrote: Curiously, the 1811 inventory included 1846 ** spears ** (i.e. pikes ?) and spontoons. Some U.S. infantry were armed with spears (or pikes)
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 28, 2005
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      Dave wrote: "Curiously, the 1811 inventory included 1846 ** spears **
      (i.e.
      pikes ?) and spontoons."

      Some U.S. infantry were armed with "spears" (or pikes) during the war on
      the Niagara front, there is an illustration of an infantryman with one in
      one of the recent Ospreys, if my memory serves me correct (the one by Jim
      Kochan?)

      Jim
      41st

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • md5_yager
      ... of ... Bob, My comment about the muskets probably being Charleville pattern in 1793, was meant to highlight that the 1795 Springfield pattern muskets were
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 28, 2005
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        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, dancingbobd@w... wrote:
        >
        >
        > The US had muskets of the French pattern and also had many muskets
        of
        > the British Brown Bess Pattern.

        Bob,

        My comment about the muskets probably being Charleville pattern in
        1793, was meant to highlight that the 1795 Springfield pattern
        muskets were not yet in production. Some seem to have the impression
        that all American muskets in the Revolutionary War period were French
        Charlevilles. As to sources of manufacture of US muskets prior to US
        arsenals coming on-line to supply government needs, the following is
        probably the most accurate statement in this regard:

        "There is no documentary evidence yet discovered which
        describes the manufacturers, quantities or dates of
        delivery of Charleville pattern U. S. muskets."

        Other arsenal records of 1793 provide some insights into sources of
        the arms. For example, Springfield, Mass under Muskets, etc.
        itemized "New French arms, 6,678". West Point identified 7,360 stands
        of arms, but also identified 706 stands of "French" and 226 stands
        of "English" muskets. Perhaps the English muskets were captured, or
        perhaps purchased by 1793. West Point may have purchased the non-
        French/non-English 7,360 stands from private suppliers. But it shows
        that "French" muskets were seen as a separate category.

        > If
        > there were fuzee's they would have been property of one of the
        officers.
        >

        The remarks on the fuzees are of course in the context of
        understanding the (apparently) many distinctions (or interpretations
        anyhow) between a "fusil" and a issue infantry musket. William
        Clark's writing shows that he identified "fuzee" as distinct from a
        musket. I certainly don't want anyone to infer that his men all
        carried them, rather then the 1795 Springfield issue muskets are the
        1803 rifles.

        Judging from arsenal records, the fuzee was phased out of production
        by 1800. The several dozen identified in arsenal records of 1793
        might shed some light on the nature of their distribution, i.e. a
        mere handful of them in all arsenals does suggest they had been
        intended for very limited distribution. But not to officers only. One
        arsenals records specifically listed having 12 "Fusees and bayonets",
        (itemized separately from their Muskets and bayonets). Officers with
        bayonets ? Seems more likely for serjeants -- and very few serjeants
        at that!

        One more clue supports their being a different caliber, as several in
        the fusil-thread-extraordinaire have noted: one arsenal identifies
        fusee cartridges on hand, itemized separately from musket cartridges!
        Seems certain to imply a different caliber, or perhaps different load
        (e.g. shot -v- ball)

        Not fusillading ;>)
        Dave
      • md5_yager
        ... on ... Not a bunch of pikers , I hope. sorry. couldn t resist. it s Monday 8 )
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 28, 2005
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          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, yawors1@u... wrote:
          >
          > Jim wrote:
          > Some U.S. infantry were armed with "spears" (or pikes) during the war
          on
          > the Niagara front

          Not a bunch of "pikers", I hope.



          sorry. couldn't resist. it's Monday 8>)
        • Gordon Deans
          Wow! You could say that The first Drouillard ... in Detroit [had a] Cadillac ... Now that is history. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 28, 2005
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            Wow! You could say that "The first Drouillard ... in Detroit [had a] Cadillac ..." Now that is history.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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