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REPLY: [WarOf1812] In the beginning . . .

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  • Gordon Deans
    Vic, Ray, Craig et al; I seem to remember that veterans of the War of 1812 paraded at the dedications to the two monuments to General Brock. It would be
    Message 1 of 2 , Nov 1, 2005
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      Vic, Ray, Craig et al;

      I seem to remember that veterans of the War of 1812 "paraded" at the dedications to the two monuments to General Brock. It would be possible that they could have engaged in a "mock" battle at the time. I would conjecture that some of the veterans could have attended in their uniforms from 1812. If we could find a first person account to confirm it, this might be the earliest "Canadian re-enacting".

      Is there any evidence to support this hypothesis?

      Gord Deans, Royal Navy [1812-14]
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: ray hobbs
      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 9:26 AM
      Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] In the beginning . . .


      In Imperial Rome there were individual excesses, such as the one
      described by Craig. I have seen this one attributed to other Caesars
      besides Caligula; Nero for example.
      However, the Romans did have a specific ritual which presented in
      regular theatrical form the change of season from campaign season to
      going back to the land. They were known as the ludi Romani (Roman
      games) in which young men, who were not regular soldiers, dressed up as
      such and performed certain ritualized processions and demonstrated
      military skills.
      The games were lengthy, lasting from 3-16th Sept., and were accompanied
      by various others forms of entertainment and enjoyment - dancing,
      racing in the circus, feasts, etc.
      The patron god, for whom the games were performed was Jupiter.
      I would call this true 'reenacting' since those involved were not
      soldiers, but civilians dressing up to act like soldiers.
      Numerous ancient texts from Mesopotamia, two thousand years before
      Rome, depict cyclical rituals of victory over the forces of chaos.
      Given that many later rituals were accompanied by theatre, it is
      possible that reenactment of this cosmic struggle was part of these
      earlier rituals. Some temple texts read just like scripts from a play.
      If the connection is sound then folk have been playing soldiers, as
      well as being soldiers, for millennia.
      My two cents' worth
      Ray Hobbs
      41st Regt


      On Tuesday, November 1, 2005, at 08:20 AM, Craig Williams wrote:

      > As far as re-enactment in Canada goes I have to agree with Vic. The
      > focused period re-enactment by predominantly the civilian/historian/
      > antiquarian in Canada seems to start with the AWI. There is plenty of
      > evidence of "sham battles" being performed in Canada during Military
      > pageants in the Victorian age, but as Mr. Suthren points out, they
      > were performed in contemporary uniform and equipment.
      > The History of re-enactment as entertainment/education(?), can be
      > documented back to the time of the Romans.
      > I believe, (and some of our friends who know Roman history much
      > better than I, will be able to correct me here), that it may have
      > been Caligula that had a lake made for the re-enactment of a Roman
      > Naval victory in which a large number of the original Roman soldiers/
      > sailors from the battle, attacked a shipload of slaves and hacked
      > their way into entertainment history. They likely killed more people
      > than in a C.B.Demille epic but then, they were trying to.
      >
      > Craig Williams


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Craig Williams
      Gordon, To go from veterans of the War of 1812 paraded to engaging in mock battles or the wearing of their uniforms is pure conjecture. If you have evidence
      Message 2 of 2 , Nov 1, 2005
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        Gordon,

        To go from "veterans of the War of 1812 paraded" to engaging in mock
        battles or the wearing of their uniforms is pure conjecture. If you
        have evidence that it happened, please post it , I would be happy to
        see it.


        Craig Williams
        On 1-Nov-05, at 12:46 PM, Gordon Deans wrote:

        > Vic, Ray, Craig et al;
        >
        > I seem to remember that veterans of the War of 1812 "paraded" at
        > the dedications to the two monuments to General Brock. It would be
        > possible that they could have engaged in a "mock" battle at the
        > time. I would conjecture that some of the veterans could have
        > attended in their uniforms from 1812. If we could find a first
        > person account to confirm it, this might be the earliest "Canadian
        > re-enacting".
        >
        > Is there any evidence to support this hypothesis?
        >
        > Gord Deans, Royal Navy [1812-14]
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: ray hobbs
        > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 9:26 AM
        > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] In the beginning . . .
        >
        >
        > In Imperial Rome there were individual excesses, such as the one
        > described by Craig. I have seen this one attributed to other Caesars
        > besides Caligula; Nero for example.
        > However, the Romans did have a specific ritual which presented in
        > regular theatrical form the change of season from campaign season to
        > going back to the land. They were known as the ludi Romani (Roman
        > games) in which young men, who were not regular soldiers, dressed
        > up as
        > such and performed certain ritualized processions and demonstrated
        > military skills.
        > The games were lengthy, lasting from 3-16th Sept., and were
        > accompanied
        > by various others forms of entertainment and enjoyment - dancing,
        > racing in the circus, feasts, etc.
        > The patron god, for whom the games were performed was Jupiter.
        > I would call this true 'reenacting' since those involved were not
        > soldiers, but civilians dressing up to act like soldiers.
        > Numerous ancient texts from Mesopotamia, two thousand years before
        > Rome, depict cyclical rituals of victory over the forces of chaos.
        > Given that many later rituals were accompanied by theatre, it is
        > possible that reenactment of this cosmic struggle was part of these
        > earlier rituals. Some temple texts read just like scripts from a
        > play.
        > If the connection is sound then folk have been playing soldiers, as
        > well as being soldiers, for millennia.
        > My two cents' worth
        > Ray Hobbs
        > 41st Regt
        >
        >
        > On Tuesday, November 1, 2005, at 08:20 AM, Craig Williams wrote:
        >
        >
        >> As far as re-enactment in Canada goes I have to agree with Vic. The
        >> focused period re-enactment by predominantly the civilian/historian/
        >> antiquarian in Canada seems to start with the AWI. There is plenty of
        >> evidence of "sham battles" being performed in Canada during Military
        >> pageants in the Victorian age, but as Mr. Suthren points out, they
        >> were performed in contemporary uniform and equipment.
        >> The History of re-enactment as entertainment/education(?), can be
        >> documented back to the time of the Romans.
        >> I believe, (and some of our friends who know Roman history much
        >> better than I, will be able to correct me here), that it may have
        >> been Caligula that had a lake made for the re-enactment of a Roman
        >> Naval victory in which a large number of the original Roman soldiers/
        >> sailors from the battle, attacked a shipload of slaves and hacked
        >> their way into entertainment history. They likely killed more people
        >> than in a C.B.Demille epic but then, they were trying to.
        >>
        >> Craig Williams
        >>
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
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