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Re: enlistment

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  • BritcomHMP@xxx.xxx
    In a message dated 10/2/1999 8:35:11 AM Central Daylight Time, maxitrot@execulink.com writes:
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 2, 1999
      In a message dated 10/2/1999 8:35:11 AM Central Daylight Time,
      maxitrot@... writes:

      << There is the expression, "To take the King's shilling," with reference
      to joining the Royal navy. Would the same expression be correct with
      reference to a midshipman? Or eve a ship's boy? I have the sense that
      it was used more with regard to press gangs....... >>

      Maxine,

      The expression was used in both the Army and Navy. The idea was that if the
      recruiter could get you accept the shilling you had accepted pay to enlist
      and were now HOOKED.
      This system did not apply to Midshipmen who were officers (all be it officers
      in training). It was good to join the Navy very young as one could not buy
      promotion, it was on strict seniority.

      Actually the expression "taking the Kings shilling" rather refers to
      voluntary enlistment. The involuntary kind was called "being pressed", though
      there are story's a plenty of the unsuspecting being slipped a shilling and
      thereby being 'pressed'.

      Cheers

      Tim
    • MAXINE TROTTIER
      To anyone s knowledge, were military, particularly sailors, especially midshipmen ever give leave, say for a few days? Max Maxine Trottier
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 2, 1999
        To anyone's knowledge, were military, particularly sailors, especially
        midshipmen ever give leave, say for a few days?

        Max
        Maxine Trottier
        maxitrot@...
        http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
      • Robert Van Patten
        Personally I don t believe that the concept of regular leave ever occurred to the Admiralty. Everytime a ship returned from a cruise, even if undamaged, when
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 2, 1999
          Personally I don't believe that the concept of regular leave ever occurred
          to the Admiralty. Everytime a ship returned from a cruise, even if
          undamaged, when it returned to its home port I expect that some if not all
          of the officers and midshipmen would have been able to get away for a time.
          That time would have been dependent upon what had to be done to the ship
          while it was in port in the way of repairs and refits and reprovisioning.
          This is all speculation on my part, of course.

          ----------
          > From: MAXINE TROTTIER <maxitrot@...>
          > To: 1812 <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
          > Subject: [WarOf1812] enlistment
          > Date: Saturday, October 02, 1999 2:40 PM
          >
          > From: "MAXINE TROTTIER" <maxitrot@...>
          >
          > To anyone's knowledge, were military, particularly sailors, especially
          > midshipmen ever give leave, say for a few days?
          >
          > Max
          > Maxine Trottier
          > maxitrot@...
          > http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
          >
          > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
          square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
          of square miles...
        • MAXINE TROTTIER
          Another question: I know that there were black seamen on the American ships. What about men of mixed blood as in native/white? Was there a place there for them
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 2, 1999
            Another question: I know that there were black seamen on the American
            ships. What about men of mixed blood as in native/white? Was there a
            place there for them other than being scouts or part of the militia?

            Max
            Maxine Trottier
            maxitrot@...
            http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Robert Van Patten <orville@...>
            To: <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
            Sent: 02 October 1999 15:38
            Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] enlistment


            > From: "Robert Van Patten" <orville@...>
            >
            > Personally I don't believe that the concept of regular leave ever
            occurred
            > to the Admiralty. Everytime a ship returned from a cruise, even if
            > undamaged, when it returned to its home port I expect that some if
            not all
            > of the officers and midshipmen would have been able to get away for
            a time.
            > That time would have been dependent upon what had to be done to the
            ship
            > while it was in port in the way of repairs and refits and
            reprovisioning.
            > This is all speculation on my part, of course.
            >
            > ----------
            > > From: MAXINE TROTTIER <maxitrot@...>
            > > To: 1812 <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
            > > Subject: [WarOf1812] enlistment
            > > Date: Saturday, October 02, 1999 2:40 PM
            > >
            > > From: "MAXINE TROTTIER" <maxitrot@...>
            > >
            > > To anyone's knowledge, were military, particularly sailors,
            especially
            > > midshipmen ever give leave, say for a few days?
            > >
            > > Max
            > > Maxine Trottier
            > > maxitrot@...
            > > http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
            > >
            > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
            hundreds of
            > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
            THOUSANDS
            > of square miles...
            >
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            > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
            hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the
            fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
            >
          • Craig Williams
            When in port Officers could apply for shore leave and were normally granted it. Sailors on the other hand were often not granted it. Nagle,(the Nagel Journal)
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 3, 1999
              When in port Officers could apply for shore leave and were normally granted
              it. Sailors on the other hand were often not granted it. Nagle,(the Nagel
              Journal) a sailor in the Royal Navy, went for many years without leave. I
              cannot remember the exact lapse but I believe it was in the double digits.
              This may be because of the risk of flight as he was pressed from an american
              ship but he said that his was not an extraordinary case.

              I'll post the title and ISBN # later. Craig
              -----Original Message-----
              From: MAXINE TROTTIER <maxitrot@...>
              To: 1812 <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
              Date: Saturday, October 02, 1999 1:39 PM
              Subject: [WarOf1812] enlistment


              >From: "MAXINE TROTTIER" <maxitrot@...>
              >
              >To anyone's knowledge, were military, particularly sailors, especially
              >midshipmen ever give leave, say for a few days?
              >
              >Max
              >Maxine Trottier
              >maxitrot@...
              >http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
              >
              >>The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
              square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
              square miles...
            • Scott Jeznach
              In response to Maxine s question regarding leave for sailors: During the greater part of the twenty years of war, experienced seamen were in high demand for
              Message 6 of 14 , Oct 4, 1999
                In response to Maxine's question regarding leave for sailors:

                During the greater part of the twenty years of war, experienced seamen were
                in high demand for the Royal Navy. Service on war ships was not the most
                desirable for experienced seamen. Service on the East India ships was much
                less strict and provided more money.

                Therefore, once a seaman was on a Royal Navy vessel, he was rarely allowed
                off again. Even when within shouting distance of a British Port. The ships
                stayed away from the docks and supplies, prostitutes, wives were brought out
                to the ships.

                There was often a race between press gangs and East India seamen when they
                returned to a British port. The seamen would try to disappear into the
                towns and the press gangs would try to grab them and press them into war
                service.

                Scott J.
                Royal Marines
                -----Original Message-----
                From: MAXINE TROTTIER <maxitrot@...>
                To: 1812 <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
                Date: Saturday, October 02, 1999 2:42 PM
                Subject: [WarOf1812] enlistment


                >From: "MAXINE TROTTIER" <maxitrot@...>
                >
                >To anyone's knowledge, were military, particularly sailors, especially
                >midshipmen ever give leave, say for a few days?
                >
                >Max
                >Maxine Trottier
                >maxitrot@...
                >http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                >
                >>The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                square miles...
                >
              • MAXINE TROTTIER
                Warships. If I had connections, and I mean at the most serious level, might I have been able to have passage on a British ship of war from England to Canada?
                Message 7 of 14 , Oct 4, 1999
                  Warships. If I had connections, and I mean at the most serious level,
                  might I have been able to have passage on a British ship of war from
                  England to Canada? In spite of the fact that I am female. Or maybe
                  because.......

                  Max
                  Maxine Trottier
                  maxitrot@...
                  http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                • Len Heidebrecht
                  Maxine. If you are serious and truly serious, contact Vic Suthren. Thats Vic the Author/Sailor/Re-enactor/ Generally Good Guy who is also an Honourary Capt in
                  Message 8 of 14 , Oct 4, 1999
                    Maxine. If you are serious and truly serious, contact Vic Suthren. Thats Vic the Author/Sailor/Re-enactor/ Generally Good Guy who is also an Honourary Capt in the Royal Canadian Navy. I can't find his e-address but he would be good person to start your inquiry with.
                    Len
                    --

                    On Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:58:07 MAXINE TROTTIER wrote:
                    >From: "MAXINE TROTTIER" <maxitrot@...>
                    >
                    >Warships. If I had connections, and I mean at the most serious level,
                    >might I have been able to have passage on a British ship of war from
                    >England to Canada? In spite of the fact that I am female. Or maybe
                    >because.......
                    >
                    >Max
                    >Maxine Trottier
                    >maxitrot@...
                    >http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm


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                  • MAXINE TROTTIER
                    Oh, I m serious. Max Maxine Trottier maxitrot@execulink.com http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm ... From: Len Heidebrecht
                    Message 9 of 14 , Oct 4, 1999
                      Oh, I'm serious.

                      Max
                      Maxine Trottier
                      maxitrot@...
                      http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Len Heidebrecht <lheidebrecht@...>
                      To: <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
                      Sent: 04 October 1999 18:23
                      Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] enlistment


                      > From: "Len Heidebrecht" <lheidebrecht@...>
                      >
                      > Maxine. If you are serious and truly serious, contact Vic Suthren.
                      Thats Vic the Author/Sailor/Re-enactor/ Generally Good Guy who is also
                      an Honourary Capt in the Royal Canadian Navy. I can't find his
                      e-address but he would be good person to start your inquiry with.
                      > Len
                      > --
                      >
                      > On Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:58:07 MAXINE TROTTIER wrote:
                      > >From: "MAXINE TROTTIER" <maxitrot@...>
                      > >
                      > >Warships. If I had connections, and I mean at the most serious
                      level,
                      > >might I have been able to have passage on a British ship of war
                      from
                      > >England to Canada? In spite of the fact that I am female. Or maybe
                      > >because.......
                      > >
                      > >Max
                      > >Maxine Trottier
                      > >maxitrot@...
                      > >http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                      >
                      >
                      > HotBot - Search smarter.
                      > http://www.hotbot.com
                      >
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                      > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                      hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the
                      fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
                      >
                    • Craig Williams
                      Maxine further to my missive yesterday , the book that I highly recomend is the Nagle Journal,A diary of the life of Jacob Nagel, sailor, from the year1775 to
                      Message 10 of 14 , Oct 4, 1999
                        Maxine further to my missive yesterday , the book that I highly recomend is
                        "the Nagle Journal,A diary of the life of Jacob Nagel, sailor, from the
                        year1775 to 1841. " edited by John C. Dann, ISBN 1-555-84223-2

                        You might also want to look up "The Wooden World".
                        Cheero, Craig
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: MAXINE TROTTIER <maxitrot@...>
                        To: 1812 <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
                        Date: Saturday, October 02, 1999 1:39 PM
                        Subject: [WarOf1812] enlistment


                        >From: "MAXINE TROTTIER" <maxitrot@...>
                        >
                        >To anyone's knowledge, were military, particularly sailors, especially
                        >midshipmen ever give leave, say for a few days?
                        >
                        >Max
                        >Maxine Trottier
                        >maxitrot@...
                        >http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                        >
                        >>The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                        square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                        square miles...
                      • MAXINE TROTTIER
                        My thanks for all and any suggested reading, particularly that nautical. Max Maxine Trottier maxitrot@execulink.com
                        Message 11 of 14 , Oct 5, 1999
                          My thanks for all and any suggested reading, particularly that
                          nautical.

                          Max
                          Maxine Trottier
                          maxitrot@...
                          http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Craig Williams <sgtwarnr@...>
                          To: <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
                          Sent: 04 October 1999 22:52
                          Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] enlistment


                          > From: "Craig Williams" <sgtwarnr@...>
                          >
                          > Maxine further to my missive yesterday , the book that I highly
                          recomend is
                          > "the Nagle Journal,A diary of the life of Jacob Nagel, sailor, from
                          the
                          > year1775 to 1841. " edited by John C. Dann, ISBN 1-555-84223-2
                          >
                          > You might also want to look up "The Wooden World".
                          > Cheero, Craig
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: MAXINE TROTTIER <maxitrot@...>
                          > To: 1812 <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
                          > Date: Saturday, October 02, 1999 1:39 PM
                          > Subject: [WarOf1812] enlistment
                          >
                          >
                          > >From: "MAXINE TROTTIER" <maxitrot@...>
                          > >
                          > >To anyone's knowledge, were military, particularly sailors,
                          especially
                          > >midshipmen ever give leave, say for a few days?
                          > >
                          > >Max
                          > >Maxine Trottier
                          > >maxitrot@...
                          > >http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                          > >
                          > >>The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                          hundreds of
                          > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                          THOUSANDS of
                          > square miles...
                          >
                          > --------------------------- ONElist
                          Sponsor ----------------------------
                          >
                          > Get EXPERT CONTENT at ONElist!
                          > Join PROS&PUNDITS. For details go to:
                          > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/prospun1 ">Click Here</a>
                          >
                          > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                          ----
                          > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                          hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the
                          fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
                          >
                        • james barnwell
                          You MUST read...Peter Simple,Mr Midshipman Easy and Oh I forgot the other book! LOL! They are by Marryat.Great reading! Jim Barnwell ... ... =====
                          Message 12 of 14 , Oct 5, 1999
                            You MUST read...Peter Simple,Mr Midshipman Easy and Oh
                            I forgot the other book! LOL! They are by
                            Marryat.Great reading!
                            Jim Barnwell

                            --- MAXINE TROTTIER <maxitrot@...> wrote:
                            > My thanks for all and any suggested reading,
                            > particularly that
                            > nautical.
                            >
                            > Max
                            > Maxine Trottier
                            > maxitrot@...
                            > http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: Craig Williams <sgtwarnr@...>
                            > To: <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
                            > Sent: 04 October 1999 22:52
                            > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] enlistment
                            >
                            >
                            > > From: "Craig Williams" <sgtwarnr@...>
                            > >
                            > > Maxine further to my missive yesterday , the book
                            > that I highly
                            > recomend is
                            > > "the Nagle Journal,A diary of the life of Jacob
                            > Nagel, sailor, from
                            > the
                            > > year1775 to 1841. " edited by John C. Dann, ISBN
                            > 1-555-84223-2
                            > >
                            > > You might also want to look up "The Wooden World".
                            > > Cheero, Craig
                            > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > From: MAXINE TROTTIER <maxitrot@...>
                            > > To: 1812 <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
                            > > Date: Saturday, October 02, 1999 1:39 PM
                            > > Subject: [WarOf1812] enlistment
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > >From: "MAXINE TROTTIER" <maxitrot@...>
                            > > >
                            > > >To anyone's knowledge, were military,
                            > particularly sailors,
                            > especially
                            > > >midshipmen ever give leave, say for a few days?
                            > > >
                            > > >Max
                            > > >Maxine Trottier
                            > > >maxitrot@...
                            > > >http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                            > > >
                            > > >>The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought
                            > over the fate of
                            > hundreds of
                            > > square miles: in North America, hundreds
                            > determined the fate of
                            > THOUSANDS of
                            > > square miles...
                            > >
                            > > --------------------------- ONElist
                            > Sponsor ----------------------------
                            > >
                            > > Get EXPERT CONTENT at ONElist!
                            > > Join PROS&PUNDITS. For details go to:
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                            > ">Click Here</a>
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            --------------------------------------------------------------------
                            > ----
                            > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
                            > the fate of
                            > hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds
                            > determined the
                            > fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
                            > the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North
                            > America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
                            > of square miles...
                            >
                            <HR>

                            >


                            =====
                          • MAXINE TROTTIER
                            The Nagle Journal is out of print, but I managed to track down a copy. Max Maxine Trottier maxitrot@execulink.com http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                            Message 13 of 14 , Oct 8, 1999
                              The Nagle Journal is out of print, but I managed to track down a copy.

                              Max
                              Maxine Trottier
                              maxitrot@...
                              http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Craig Williams <sgtwarnr@...>
                              To: <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
                              Sent: 04 October 1999 22:52
                              Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] enlistment


                              > From: "Craig Williams" <sgtwarnr@...>
                              >
                              > Maxine further to my missive yesterday , the book that I highly
                              recomend is
                              > "the Nagle Journal,A diary of the life of Jacob Nagel, sailor, from
                              the
                              > year1775 to 1841. " edited by John C. Dann, ISBN 1-555-84223-2
                              >
                              > You might also want to look up "The Wooden World".
                              > Cheero, Craig
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: MAXINE TROTTIER <maxitrot@...>
                              > To: 1812 <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
                              > Date: Saturday, October 02, 1999 1:39 PM
                              > Subject: [WarOf1812] enlistment
                              >
                              >
                              > >From: "MAXINE TROTTIER" <maxitrot@...>
                              > >
                              > >To anyone's knowledge, were military, particularly sailors,
                              especially
                              > >midshipmen ever give leave, say for a few days?
                              > >
                              > >Max
                              > >Maxine Trottier
                              > >maxitrot@...
                              > >http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                              > >
                              > >>The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                              hundreds of
                              > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                              THOUSANDS of
                              > square miles...
                              >
                              > --------------------------- ONElist
                              Sponsor ----------------------------
                              >
                              > Get EXPERT CONTENT at ONElist!
                              > Join PROS&PUNDITS. For details go to:
                              > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/prospun1 ">Click Here</a>
                              >
                              > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                              ----
                              > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                              hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the
                              fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
                              >
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