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enlistment

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  • MAXINE TROTTIER
    There is the expression, To take the King s shilling, with reference to joining the Royal navy. Would the same expression be correct with reference to a
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 2, 1999
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      There is the expression, "To take the King's shilling," with reference
      to joining the Royal navy. Would the same expression be correct with
      reference to a midshipman? Or eve a ship's boy? I have the sense that
      it was used more with regard to press gangs.......

      Max
      Maxine Trottier
      maxitrot@...
      http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
    • BritcomHMP@xxx.xxx
      In a message dated 10/2/1999 8:35:11 AM Central Daylight Time, maxitrot@execulink.com writes:
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 2, 1999
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        In a message dated 10/2/1999 8:35:11 AM Central Daylight Time,
        maxitrot@... writes:

        << There is the expression, "To take the King's shilling," with reference
        to joining the Royal navy. Would the same expression be correct with
        reference to a midshipman? Or eve a ship's boy? I have the sense that
        it was used more with regard to press gangs....... >>

        Maxine,

        The expression was used in both the Army and Navy. The idea was that if the
        recruiter could get you accept the shilling you had accepted pay to enlist
        and were now HOOKED.
        This system did not apply to Midshipmen who were officers (all be it officers
        in training). It was good to join the Navy very young as one could not buy
        promotion, it was on strict seniority.

        Actually the expression "taking the Kings shilling" rather refers to
        voluntary enlistment. The involuntary kind was called "being pressed", though
        there are story's a plenty of the unsuspecting being slipped a shilling and
        thereby being 'pressed'.

        Cheers

        Tim
      • MAXINE TROTTIER
        To anyone s knowledge, were military, particularly sailors, especially midshipmen ever give leave, say for a few days? Max Maxine Trottier
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 2, 1999
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          To anyone's knowledge, were military, particularly sailors, especially
          midshipmen ever give leave, say for a few days?

          Max
          Maxine Trottier
          maxitrot@...
          http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
        • Robert Van Patten
          Personally I don t believe that the concept of regular leave ever occurred to the Admiralty. Everytime a ship returned from a cruise, even if undamaged, when
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 2, 1999
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            Personally I don't believe that the concept of regular leave ever occurred
            to the Admiralty. Everytime a ship returned from a cruise, even if
            undamaged, when it returned to its home port I expect that some if not all
            of the officers and midshipmen would have been able to get away for a time.
            That time would have been dependent upon what had to be done to the ship
            while it was in port in the way of repairs and refits and reprovisioning.
            This is all speculation on my part, of course.

            ----------
            > From: MAXINE TROTTIER <maxitrot@...>
            > To: 1812 <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
            > Subject: [WarOf1812] enlistment
            > Date: Saturday, October 02, 1999 2:40 PM
            >
            > From: "MAXINE TROTTIER" <maxitrot@...>
            >
            > To anyone's knowledge, were military, particularly sailors, especially
            > midshipmen ever give leave, say for a few days?
            >
            > Max
            > Maxine Trottier
            > maxitrot@...
            > http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
            >
            > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
            square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
            of square miles...
          • MAXINE TROTTIER
            Another question: I know that there were black seamen on the American ships. What about men of mixed blood as in native/white? Was there a place there for them
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 2, 1999
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              Another question: I know that there were black seamen on the American
              ships. What about men of mixed blood as in native/white? Was there a
              place there for them other than being scouts or part of the militia?

              Max
              Maxine Trottier
              maxitrot@...
              http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Robert Van Patten <orville@...>
              To: <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
              Sent: 02 October 1999 15:38
              Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] enlistment


              > From: "Robert Van Patten" <orville@...>
              >
              > Personally I don't believe that the concept of regular leave ever
              occurred
              > to the Admiralty. Everytime a ship returned from a cruise, even if
              > undamaged, when it returned to its home port I expect that some if
              not all
              > of the officers and midshipmen would have been able to get away for
              a time.
              > That time would have been dependent upon what had to be done to the
              ship
              > while it was in port in the way of repairs and refits and
              reprovisioning.
              > This is all speculation on my part, of course.
              >
              > ----------
              > > From: MAXINE TROTTIER <maxitrot@...>
              > > To: 1812 <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
              > > Subject: [WarOf1812] enlistment
              > > Date: Saturday, October 02, 1999 2:40 PM
              > >
              > > From: "MAXINE TROTTIER" <maxitrot@...>
              > >
              > > To anyone's knowledge, were military, particularly sailors,
              especially
              > > midshipmen ever give leave, say for a few days?
              > >
              > > Max
              > > Maxine Trottier
              > > maxitrot@...
              > > http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
              > >
              > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
              hundreds of
              > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
              THOUSANDS
              > of square miles...
              >
              > --------------------------- ONElist
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              > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
              hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the
              fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
              >
            • Craig Williams
              When in port Officers could apply for shore leave and were normally granted it. Sailors on the other hand were often not granted it. Nagle,(the Nagel Journal)
              Message 6 of 14 , Oct 3, 1999
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                When in port Officers could apply for shore leave and were normally granted
                it. Sailors on the other hand were often not granted it. Nagle,(the Nagel
                Journal) a sailor in the Royal Navy, went for many years without leave. I
                cannot remember the exact lapse but I believe it was in the double digits.
                This may be because of the risk of flight as he was pressed from an american
                ship but he said that his was not an extraordinary case.

                I'll post the title and ISBN # later. Craig
                -----Original Message-----
                From: MAXINE TROTTIER <maxitrot@...>
                To: 1812 <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
                Date: Saturday, October 02, 1999 1:39 PM
                Subject: [WarOf1812] enlistment


                >From: "MAXINE TROTTIER" <maxitrot@...>
                >
                >To anyone's knowledge, were military, particularly sailors, especially
                >midshipmen ever give leave, say for a few days?
                >
                >Max
                >Maxine Trottier
                >maxitrot@...
                >http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                >
                >>The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                square miles...
              • Scott Jeznach
                In response to Maxine s question regarding leave for sailors: During the greater part of the twenty years of war, experienced seamen were in high demand for
                Message 7 of 14 , Oct 4, 1999
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                  In response to Maxine's question regarding leave for sailors:

                  During the greater part of the twenty years of war, experienced seamen were
                  in high demand for the Royal Navy. Service on war ships was not the most
                  desirable for experienced seamen. Service on the East India ships was much
                  less strict and provided more money.

                  Therefore, once a seaman was on a Royal Navy vessel, he was rarely allowed
                  off again. Even when within shouting distance of a British Port. The ships
                  stayed away from the docks and supplies, prostitutes, wives were brought out
                  to the ships.

                  There was often a race between press gangs and East India seamen when they
                  returned to a British port. The seamen would try to disappear into the
                  towns and the press gangs would try to grab them and press them into war
                  service.

                  Scott J.
                  Royal Marines
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: MAXINE TROTTIER <maxitrot@...>
                  To: 1812 <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
                  Date: Saturday, October 02, 1999 2:42 PM
                  Subject: [WarOf1812] enlistment


                  >From: "MAXINE TROTTIER" <maxitrot@...>
                  >
                  >To anyone's knowledge, were military, particularly sailors, especially
                  >midshipmen ever give leave, say for a few days?
                  >
                  >Max
                  >Maxine Trottier
                  >maxitrot@...
                  >http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                  >
                  >>The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                  square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                  square miles...
                  >
                • MAXINE TROTTIER
                  Warships. If I had connections, and I mean at the most serious level, might I have been able to have passage on a British ship of war from England to Canada?
                  Message 8 of 14 , Oct 4, 1999
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                    Warships. If I had connections, and I mean at the most serious level,
                    might I have been able to have passage on a British ship of war from
                    England to Canada? In spite of the fact that I am female. Or maybe
                    because.......

                    Max
                    Maxine Trottier
                    maxitrot@...
                    http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                  • Len Heidebrecht
                    Maxine. If you are serious and truly serious, contact Vic Suthren. Thats Vic the Author/Sailor/Re-enactor/ Generally Good Guy who is also an Honourary Capt in
                    Message 9 of 14 , Oct 4, 1999
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                      Maxine. If you are serious and truly serious, contact Vic Suthren. Thats Vic the Author/Sailor/Re-enactor/ Generally Good Guy who is also an Honourary Capt in the Royal Canadian Navy. I can't find his e-address but he would be good person to start your inquiry with.
                      Len
                      --

                      On Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:58:07 MAXINE TROTTIER wrote:
                      >From: "MAXINE TROTTIER" <maxitrot@...>
                      >
                      >Warships. If I had connections, and I mean at the most serious level,
                      >might I have been able to have passage on a British ship of war from
                      >England to Canada? In spite of the fact that I am female. Or maybe
                      >because.......
                      >
                      >Max
                      >Maxine Trottier
                      >maxitrot@...
                      >http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm


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                    • MAXINE TROTTIER
                      Oh, I m serious. Max Maxine Trottier maxitrot@execulink.com http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm ... From: Len Heidebrecht
                      Message 10 of 14 , Oct 4, 1999
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                        Oh, I'm serious.

                        Max
                        Maxine Trottier
                        maxitrot@...
                        http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Len Heidebrecht <lheidebrecht@...>
                        To: <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
                        Sent: 04 October 1999 18:23
                        Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] enlistment


                        > From: "Len Heidebrecht" <lheidebrecht@...>
                        >
                        > Maxine. If you are serious and truly serious, contact Vic Suthren.
                        Thats Vic the Author/Sailor/Re-enactor/ Generally Good Guy who is also
                        an Honourary Capt in the Royal Canadian Navy. I can't find his
                        e-address but he would be good person to start your inquiry with.
                        > Len
                        > --
                        >
                        > On Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:58:07 MAXINE TROTTIER wrote:
                        > >From: "MAXINE TROTTIER" <maxitrot@...>
                        > >
                        > >Warships. If I had connections, and I mean at the most serious
                        level,
                        > >might I have been able to have passage on a British ship of war
                        from
                        > >England to Canada? In spite of the fact that I am female. Or maybe
                        > >because.......
                        > >
                        > >Max
                        > >Maxine Trottier
                        > >maxitrot@...
                        > >http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                        >
                        >
                        > HotBot - Search smarter.
                        > http://www.hotbot.com
                        >
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                        > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                        hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the
                        fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
                        >
                      • Craig Williams
                        Maxine further to my missive yesterday , the book that I highly recomend is the Nagle Journal,A diary of the life of Jacob Nagel, sailor, from the year1775 to
                        Message 11 of 14 , Oct 4, 1999
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                          Maxine further to my missive yesterday , the book that I highly recomend is
                          "the Nagle Journal,A diary of the life of Jacob Nagel, sailor, from the
                          year1775 to 1841. " edited by John C. Dann, ISBN 1-555-84223-2

                          You might also want to look up "The Wooden World".
                          Cheero, Craig
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: MAXINE TROTTIER <maxitrot@...>
                          To: 1812 <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
                          Date: Saturday, October 02, 1999 1:39 PM
                          Subject: [WarOf1812] enlistment


                          >From: "MAXINE TROTTIER" <maxitrot@...>
                          >
                          >To anyone's knowledge, were military, particularly sailors, especially
                          >midshipmen ever give leave, say for a few days?
                          >
                          >Max
                          >Maxine Trottier
                          >maxitrot@...
                          >http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                          >
                          >>The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                          square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                          square miles...
                        • MAXINE TROTTIER
                          My thanks for all and any suggested reading, particularly that nautical. Max Maxine Trottier maxitrot@execulink.com
                          Message 12 of 14 , Oct 5, 1999
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                            My thanks for all and any suggested reading, particularly that
                            nautical.

                            Max
                            Maxine Trottier
                            maxitrot@...
                            http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Craig Williams <sgtwarnr@...>
                            To: <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
                            Sent: 04 October 1999 22:52
                            Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] enlistment


                            > From: "Craig Williams" <sgtwarnr@...>
                            >
                            > Maxine further to my missive yesterday , the book that I highly
                            recomend is
                            > "the Nagle Journal,A diary of the life of Jacob Nagel, sailor, from
                            the
                            > year1775 to 1841. " edited by John C. Dann, ISBN 1-555-84223-2
                            >
                            > You might also want to look up "The Wooden World".
                            > Cheero, Craig
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: MAXINE TROTTIER <maxitrot@...>
                            > To: 1812 <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
                            > Date: Saturday, October 02, 1999 1:39 PM
                            > Subject: [WarOf1812] enlistment
                            >
                            >
                            > >From: "MAXINE TROTTIER" <maxitrot@...>
                            > >
                            > >To anyone's knowledge, were military, particularly sailors,
                            especially
                            > >midshipmen ever give leave, say for a few days?
                            > >
                            > >Max
                            > >Maxine Trottier
                            > >maxitrot@...
                            > >http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                            > >
                            > >>The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                            hundreds of
                            > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                            THOUSANDS of
                            > square miles...
                            >
                            > --------------------------- ONElist
                            Sponsor ----------------------------
                            >
                            > Get EXPERT CONTENT at ONElist!
                            > Join PROS&PUNDITS. For details go to:
                            > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/prospun1 ">Click Here</a>
                            >
                            > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                            ----
                            > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                            hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the
                            fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
                            >
                          • james barnwell
                            You MUST read...Peter Simple,Mr Midshipman Easy and Oh I forgot the other book! LOL! They are by Marryat.Great reading! Jim Barnwell ... ... =====
                            Message 13 of 14 , Oct 5, 1999
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                              You MUST read...Peter Simple,Mr Midshipman Easy and Oh
                              I forgot the other book! LOL! They are by
                              Marryat.Great reading!
                              Jim Barnwell

                              --- MAXINE TROTTIER <maxitrot@...> wrote:
                              > My thanks for all and any suggested reading,
                              > particularly that
                              > nautical.
                              >
                              > Max
                              > Maxine Trottier
                              > maxitrot@...
                              > http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: Craig Williams <sgtwarnr@...>
                              > To: <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
                              > Sent: 04 October 1999 22:52
                              > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] enlistment
                              >
                              >
                              > > From: "Craig Williams" <sgtwarnr@...>
                              > >
                              > > Maxine further to my missive yesterday , the book
                              > that I highly
                              > recomend is
                              > > "the Nagle Journal,A diary of the life of Jacob
                              > Nagel, sailor, from
                              > the
                              > > year1775 to 1841. " edited by John C. Dann, ISBN
                              > 1-555-84223-2
                              > >
                              > > You might also want to look up "The Wooden World".
                              > > Cheero, Craig
                              > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > From: MAXINE TROTTIER <maxitrot@...>
                              > > To: 1812 <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
                              > > Date: Saturday, October 02, 1999 1:39 PM
                              > > Subject: [WarOf1812] enlistment
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > >From: "MAXINE TROTTIER" <maxitrot@...>
                              > > >
                              > > >To anyone's knowledge, were military,
                              > particularly sailors,
                              > especially
                              > > >midshipmen ever give leave, say for a few days?
                              > > >
                              > > >Max
                              > > >Maxine Trottier
                              > > >maxitrot@...
                              > > >http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                              > > >
                              > > >>The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought
                              > over the fate of
                              > hundreds of
                              > > square miles: in North America, hundreds
                              > determined the fate of
                              > THOUSANDS of
                              > > square miles...
                              > >
                              > > --------------------------- ONElist
                              > Sponsor ----------------------------
                              > >
                              > > Get EXPERT CONTENT at ONElist!
                              > > Join PROS&PUNDITS. For details go to:
                              > > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/prospun1
                              > ">Click Here</a>
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              --------------------------------------------------------------------
                              > ----
                              > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
                              > the fate of
                              > hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds
                              > determined the
                              > fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
                              > the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North
                              > America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
                              > of square miles...
                              >
                              <HR>

                              >


                              =====
                            • MAXINE TROTTIER
                              The Nagle Journal is out of print, but I managed to track down a copy. Max Maxine Trottier maxitrot@execulink.com http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                              Message 14 of 14 , Oct 8, 1999
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                                The Nagle Journal is out of print, but I managed to track down a copy.

                                Max
                                Maxine Trottier
                                maxitrot@...
                                http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Craig Williams <sgtwarnr@...>
                                To: <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
                                Sent: 04 October 1999 22:52
                                Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] enlistment


                                > From: "Craig Williams" <sgtwarnr@...>
                                >
                                > Maxine further to my missive yesterday , the book that I highly
                                recomend is
                                > "the Nagle Journal,A diary of the life of Jacob Nagel, sailor, from
                                the
                                > year1775 to 1841. " edited by John C. Dann, ISBN 1-555-84223-2
                                >
                                > You might also want to look up "The Wooden World".
                                > Cheero, Craig
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: MAXINE TROTTIER <maxitrot@...>
                                > To: 1812 <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
                                > Date: Saturday, October 02, 1999 1:39 PM
                                > Subject: [WarOf1812] enlistment
                                >
                                >
                                > >From: "MAXINE TROTTIER" <maxitrot@...>
                                > >
                                > >To anyone's knowledge, were military, particularly sailors,
                                especially
                                > >midshipmen ever give leave, say for a few days?
                                > >
                                > >Max
                                > >Maxine Trottier
                                > >maxitrot@...
                                > >http://www.execulink.com/~maxitrot/maxine.htm
                                > >
                                > >>The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                                hundreds of
                                > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                                THOUSANDS of
                                > square miles...
                                >
                                > --------------------------- ONElist
                                Sponsor ----------------------------
                                >
                                > Get EXPERT CONTENT at ONElist!
                                > Join PROS&PUNDITS. For details go to:
                                > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/prospun1 ">Click Here</a>
                                >
                                > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                ----
                                > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                                hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the
                                fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
                                >
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