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American LIghts

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  • dan_055
    This may be a dumb question, but did the American regular regiments have light companies? How about the State or militia regiments? If not, what happened to
    Message 1 of 10 , May 31, 2005
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      This may be a dumb question, but did the American
      regular regiments have light companies? How about
      the State or militia regiments?

      If not, what happened to all the light infantry
      made famous during the revolution?

      Thanks,
      Dan
    • Rod Fleck
      Hello - was wondering if some of the folks have a great 1812 source book similar to P. Katchers The Civil War Source Book? I have some detailed histories,
      Message 2 of 10 , May 31, 2005
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        Hello - was wondering if some of the folks have a great 1812 source book
        similar to P. Katchers' The Civil War Source Book? I have some detailed
        histories, but was looking for something more broad in coverage focused on
        the solders and sailors.



        Any suggestions of the five must have 1812 source books?



        Thanks in advance



        Rod Fleck

        Forks, WA



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • md5_yager
        Dan, I d hazard that an answer to your question could almost fill a small book. But to take a very general overview, here are some personal opinions. As for
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 1, 2005
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          Dan,
          I'd hazard that an answer to your question could almost fill a small
          book. But to take a very general overview, here are some personal
          opinions.

          As for light infantry companies in regular US regiments, I'll leave
          that for rep's/historians of those recreated units.

          As for State militias up to the War of 1812, I offer some
          observations from personal study. The short answer is that
          one could make a claim that all of the state militias were "light"
          infantry, in that their military training (drill, maneuver
          evolutions, etc.), where there was any, was never on a par with
          regular infantry. State militia service traced back to the earliest
          colonial periods, being a requirement for able-bodied males in the
          designated age range, which varied over time, but often from 16-50.
          For the vast majority, this meant nothing more than being a name on
          the company commander's muster role, and maybe showing up at
          infrequent drills.

          Virginia for a time used militia districts to determine who was in a
          company, based on census location. The numbers I have seen in
          Virginia the post-RevWar period suggested a variable 60-80 men per
          company. If a militia draft occurred, it usually did not mean
          everyone reported due to hardship that would result in agrarian
          culture. Attempts were made to get enough of the company to
          volunteer, to meet quotas. And there was a process for substitutes.

          No companies in southwest Virginia or western North Carolina, for
          example were designated 'light infantry', since many of these were
          (for historical and weapons reasons) designated rifle companies. This
          was economical, as a hunting frock was often the official State
          uniform. And it capitalized on long-standing familiarity with rifles,
          and hunting dress. (I know some may think this sounds like its from a
          Davy Crockett movie script, but know that there were small Indian war-
          party raids in east Tennessee, albeit infrequent, into the mid 1790s.)

          In most areas, it appears that men were also free to constitute their
          own independent, uniformed companies. Incredibly, there was no public
          fear or shock at the sight of organized groups of men carrying and
          drilling with guns in public in those times. People actually welcomed
          it. But I digress... Uniformed companies could be found in Baltimore,
          Maryland, and some other cities. Maryland had companies which
          retained the name "Light Infantry" from the RevWar period right up to
          the time of the War of 1812. Baltimore also had a independent "Yager"
          company. (you Prussian fans spelled it as "Jager" or "Jaeger"). At
          the battle of North Point, Baltimore, Maryland in 1814, historical
          records show they functioned as skirmishers, although evidently armed
          with muskets. There was a independent, uniformed "First Baltimore
          Light Infantry Company" at the same battle, that traced back to the
          Revolutionary War. But I have not yet seen evidence they fought
          independently from other line infantry companies in the 5th Regiment,
          Maryland Militia they were attached to. Local military commanders
          attached rifle units to at least a couple of the infantry regiments
          at that battle. But organizationally, a Rifle Battalion was a
          separate entity.

          ... This only gives a few details about variation from State to
          State, and within each State. (As I said, you could fill a small
          book.) US law mandated State militias, but their organization,
          uniforms, training, and fighting quality was a proverbial 'patchwork-
          quilt'. The War of 1812 certainly brought to light many of the
          organizational and political management problems of the US Government
          relying on augmenting US forces with State militias.

          Dave Welch
          Sadtler's Baltimore Yagers Company
          5th Reg't, Maryland Militia






          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "dan_055" <dan_055@y...> wrote:
          > This may be a dumb question, but did the American
          > regular regiments have light companies? How about
          > the State or militia regiments?
          >
          > If not, what happened to all the light infantry
          > made famous during the revolution?
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Dan
        • dan_055
          Dave, Thanks for the prompt reply, very helpful. Dan ... small ... leave ... earliest ... 50. ... on ... a ... This ... rifles, ... from a ... war- ... 1790s.)
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 1, 2005
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            Dave,

            Thanks for the prompt reply, very helpful.

            Dan



            --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "md5_yager" <md5_yager@y...> wrote:
            > Dan,
            > I'd hazard that an answer to your question could almost fill a
            small
            > book. But to take a very general overview, here are some personal
            > opinions.
            >
            > As for light infantry companies in regular US regiments, I'll
            leave
            > that for rep's/historians of those recreated units.
            >
            > As for State militias up to the War of 1812, I offer some
            > observations from personal study. The short answer is that
            > one could make a claim that all of the state militias were "light"
            > infantry, in that their military training (drill, maneuver
            > evolutions, etc.), where there was any, was never on a par with
            > regular infantry. State militia service traced back to the
            earliest
            > colonial periods, being a requirement for able-bodied males in the
            > designated age range, which varied over time, but often from 16-
            50.
            > For the vast majority, this meant nothing more than being a name
            on
            > the company commander's muster role, and maybe showing up at
            > infrequent drills.
            >
            > Virginia for a time used militia districts to determine who was in
            a
            > company, based on census location. The numbers I have seen in
            > Virginia the post-RevWar period suggested a variable 60-80 men per
            > company. If a militia draft occurred, it usually did not mean
            > everyone reported due to hardship that would result in agrarian
            > culture. Attempts were made to get enough of the company to
            > volunteer, to meet quotas. And there was a process for substitutes.
            >
            > No companies in southwest Virginia or western North Carolina, for
            > example were designated 'light infantry', since many of these were
            > (for historical and weapons reasons) designated rifle companies.
            This
            > was economical, as a hunting frock was often the official State
            > uniform. And it capitalized on long-standing familiarity with
            rifles,
            > and hunting dress. (I know some may think this sounds like its
            from a
            > Davy Crockett movie script, but know that there were small Indian
            war-
            > party raids in east Tennessee, albeit infrequent, into the mid
            1790s.)
            >
            > In most areas, it appears that men were also free to constitute
            their
            > own independent, uniformed companies. Incredibly, there was no
            public
            > fear or shock at the sight of organized groups of men carrying and
            > drilling with guns in public in those times. People actually
            welcomed
            > it. But I digress... Uniformed companies could be found in
            Baltimore,
            > Maryland, and some other cities. Maryland had companies which
            > retained the name "Light Infantry" from the RevWar period right up
            to
            > the time of the War of 1812. Baltimore also had a
            independent "Yager"
            > company. (you Prussian fans spelled it as "Jager" or "Jaeger"). At
            > the battle of North Point, Baltimore, Maryland in 1814, historical
            > records show they functioned as skirmishers, although evidently
            armed
            > with muskets. There was a independent, uniformed "First Baltimore
            > Light Infantry Company" at the same battle, that traced back to
            the
            > Revolutionary War. But I have not yet seen evidence they fought
            > independently from other line infantry companies in the 5th
            Regiment,
            > Maryland Militia they were attached to. Local military commanders
            > attached rifle units to at least a couple of the infantry
            regiments
            > at that battle. But organizationally, a Rifle Battalion was a
            > separate entity.
            >
            > ... This only gives a few details about variation from State to
            > State, and within each State. (As I said, you could fill a small
            > book.) US law mandated State militias, but their organization,
            > uniforms, training, and fighting quality was a
            proverbial 'patchwork-
            > quilt'. The War of 1812 certainly brought to light many of the
            > organizational and political management problems of the US
            Government
            > relying on augmenting US forces with State militias.
            >
            > Dave Welch
            > Sadtler's Baltimore Yagers Company
            > 5th Reg't, Maryland Militia
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "dan_055" <dan_055@y...> wrote:
            > > This may be a dumb question, but did the American
            > > regular regiments have light companies? How about
            > > the State or militia regiments?
            > >
            > > If not, what happened to all the light infantry
            > > made famous during the revolution?
            > >
            > > Thanks,
            > > Dan
          • Annette Gower
            Dan , Yes the infantry has light units in the war of 1812 , as well as the Regiment of Rifles , they have a special supplement to the infantry regulation , as
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 1, 2005
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              Dan ,
              Yes the infantry has light units in the war of 1812 , as well as the Regiment of Rifles , they have a special supplement to the infantry regulation , as light and rifles .
              Lloyd
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: dan_055
              To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 1:34 AM
              Subject: [WarOf1812] American LIghts


              This may be a dumb question, but did the American
              regular regiments have light companies? How about
              the State or militia regiments?

              If not, what happened to all the light infantry
              made famous during the revolution?

              Thanks,
              Dan






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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • machewr
              Yes, I was curious about this, too. Been reading Smyth s regs of 1812 and he mentions two companies of Grenadiers with each battalion. I fear I am still in
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 2, 2005
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                Yes, I was curious about this, too. Been reading Smyth's regs of 1812 and he mentions
                two companies of Grenadiers with each battalion. I fear I am still in research 101 and
                hopefully can glean the expertise of this group.

                Were the Grenadiers distinguished from the regular line companies in any way, in uniform,
                function and the like? Were they detached and converged into "light" battalions? Did they
                do any skirmishing like the lights of the British battalions? Or were they indistinguishable
                from the line companies?
              • Brian Howard
                Dave, Davy Crockett aside, Virginia did maintain militia companies that were designated Light Infantry . Governor Barbour in Jan of 1812 specified a Light
                Message 7 of 10 , Jun 6, 2005
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                  Dave,
                  Davy Crockett aside, Virginia did maintain militia
                  companies that were designated "Light Infantry".
                  Governor Barbour in Jan of 1812 specified a Light
                  Infantry uniform of a blue coat with white collar,
                  cuffs, half-lapels, and turnbacks. A white waist coat,
                  blue trousers with white seams, and a black round hat
                  with a black cockade. Many of the more well to do
                  companies designated themsleves as light infantry and
                  adopted variations of this uniform regulation.

                  As for riflemen, I must say you are incorrect with the
                  hunting shirt being the uniform of the rifleman. Yes,
                  the 1812 regulation called for a purple hunting shirt
                  and purple trousers. The Mathews County Rifle companie
                  adopted a uniform of a blue coat with black vest and
                  black trousers. The hat was odd but I don't recall
                  the exact configuration.

                  It's late and I could go into more detail once I get
                  my facts together. I will post more at a later time.

                  Brian Howard
                  2nd Virginia Regt., 1813-1815


                  --- md5_yager <md5_yager@...> wrote:

                  > Dan,
                  > I'd hazard that an answer to your question could
                  > almost fill a small
                  > book. But to take a very general overview, here are
                  > some personal
                  > opinions.
                  >
                  > As for light infantry companies in regular US
                  > regiments, I'll leave
                  > that for rep's/historians of those recreated units.
                  >
                  > As for State militias up to the War of 1812, I offer
                  > some
                  > observations from personal study. The short answer
                  > is that
                  > one could make a claim that all of the state
                  > militias were "light"
                  > infantry, in that their military training (drill,
                  > maneuver
                  > evolutions, etc.), where there was any, was never on
                  > a par with
                  > regular infantry. State militia service traced back
                  > to the earliest
                  > colonial periods, being a requirement for
                  > able-bodied males in the
                  > designated age range, which varied over time, but
                  > often from 16-50.
                  > For the vast majority, this meant nothing more than
                  > being a name on
                  > the company commander's muster role, and maybe
                  > showing up at
                  > infrequent drills.
                  >
                  > Virginia for a time used militia districts to
                  > determine who was in a
                  > company, based on census location. The numbers I
                  > have seen in
                  > Virginia the post-RevWar period suggested a variable
                  > 60-80 men per
                  > company. If a militia draft occurred, it usually did
                  > not mean
                  > everyone reported due to hardship that would result
                  > in agrarian
                  > culture. Attempts were made to get enough of the
                  > company to
                  > volunteer, to meet quotas. And there was a process
                  > for substitutes.
                  >
                  > No companies in southwest Virginia or western North
                  > Carolina, for
                  > example were designated 'light infantry', since many
                  > of these were
                  > (for historical and weapons reasons) designated
                  > rifle companies. This
                  > was economical, as a hunting frock was often the
                  > official State
                  > uniform. And it capitalized on long-standing
                  > familiarity with rifles,
                  > and hunting dress. (I know some may think this
                  > sounds like its from a
                  > Davy Crockett movie script, but know that there were
                  > small Indian war-
                  > party raids in east Tennessee, albeit infrequent,
                  > into the mid 1790s.)
                  >
                  > In most areas, it appears that men were also free to
                  > constitute their
                  > own independent, uniformed companies. Incredibly,
                  > there was no public
                  > fear or shock at the sight of organized groups of
                  > men carrying and
                  > drilling with guns in public in those times. People
                  > actually welcomed
                  > it. But I digress... Uniformed companies could be
                  > found in Baltimore,
                  > Maryland, and some other cities. Maryland had
                  > companies which
                  > retained the name "Light Infantry" from the RevWar
                  > period right up to
                  > the time of the War of 1812. Baltimore also had a
                  > independent "Yager"
                  > company. (you Prussian fans spelled it as "Jager" or
                  > "Jaeger"). At
                  > the battle of North Point, Baltimore, Maryland in
                  > 1814, historical
                  > records show they functioned as skirmishers,
                  > although evidently armed
                  > with muskets. There was a independent, uniformed
                  > "First Baltimore
                  > Light Infantry Company" at the same battle, that
                  > traced back to the
                  > Revolutionary War. But I have not yet seen evidence
                  > they fought
                  > independently from other line infantry companies in
                  > the 5th Regiment,
                  > Maryland Militia they were attached to. Local
                  > military commanders
                  > attached rifle units to at least a couple of the
                  > infantry regiments
                  > at that battle. But organizationally, a Rifle
                  > Battalion was a
                  > separate entity.
                  >
                  > ... This only gives a few details about variation
                  > from State to
                  > State, and within each State. (As I said, you could
                  > fill a small
                  > book.) US law mandated State militias, but their
                  > organization,
                  > uniforms, training, and fighting quality was a
                  > proverbial 'patchwork-
                  > quilt'. The War of 1812 certainly brought to light
                  > many of the
                  > organizational and political management problems of
                  > the US Government
                  > relying on augmenting US forces with State militias.
                  >
                  > Dave Welch
                  > Sadtler's Baltimore Yagers Company
                  > 5th Reg't, Maryland Militia
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "dan_055"
                  > <dan_055@y...> wrote:
                  > > This may be a dumb question, but did the American
                  > > regular regiments have light companies? How about
                  >
                  > > the State or militia regiments?
                  > >
                  > > If not, what happened to all the light infantry
                  > > made famous during the revolution?
                  > >
                  > > Thanks,
                  > > Dan
                  >
                  >
                  >


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                • md5_yager
                  Brian, Your example of the Mathews County company is a good example of what I described as an independent, uniformed company. This Volunteer Rifles company
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jun 7, 2005
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                    Brian,
                    Your example of the Mathews County company is a good example of what
                    I described as an independent, uniformed company. This "Volunteer
                    Rifles" company even had their own constitution. The silver
                    epaulettes of their officers must have been splendid. Mathews County
                    on the Chesapeake Bay is a pretty far piece from the piedmont and
                    mountain counties of Virginia, where the militia rifle companies and
                    mounted volunteers were not so fashionably dressed.

                    One could devote many pages to the colorful variations of uniform to
                    be found among many such companies across the States. Many on this
                    list probably are familiar with several excellent published sources
                    on such. Variety in militia dress stemmed from many factors. North
                    Carolina had a volunteer cavalry with with blue round jackets, and
                    white pantaloons. But at the start of the war, there was no
                    regulation uniform, leading Governor Hawkins had to draw up a design.
                    Major William Hamilton was placed in charge of recruiting in North
                    Carolina and promised to equip volunteers in "RIFLE DRESS and give
                    you your FAVORITE WEAPON". (I daresay the latter was not a Bess or
                    Charleville, subject to the limits of supply from US depots and
                    contrators.) Hollywood notwithstanding, the dress of Tennessee and
                    Kentucky mounted volunteers is legendary.

                    As noted in earlier posting, State militias, both volunteers and
                    draftees, were heavily relied upon to augment US Forces. A reader had
                    asked what became of American light infantry units of the RevWar
                    period. I was suggesting that the role of light infantry units among
                    State forces was, by 1812, made unremarkable by sheer weight of
                    overall militia quotas States were directed to provide.

                    I don't think I implied that light infantry units did not exist, or
                    see combat. In fact, several in Maryland were employed like quick-
                    reaction teams to respond to British landing parties in the
                    Chesapeake. But across the spectrum of State units, both volunteer
                    and drafted, the record and tactics suggest to me that it was
                    frequently ad hoc, "come as you are" campaigns -- by combatants with
                    little-to-no formal military training. But as Horseshoe Bend, New
                    Orleans and other battles demonstrate, to borrow a phrase they didn't
                    have to "dress for success".

                    (Now what did I do with that old coonskin cap, it was here
                    someplace... <grin>)
                    Dave

                    --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Brian Howard <chippokes@y...> wrote:
                    > Dave,
                    > Davy Crockett aside, Virginia did maintain militia
                    > companies that were designated "Light Infantry".
                    > Governor Barbour in Jan of 1812 specified a Light
                    > Infantry uniform of a blue coat with white collar,
                    > cuffs, half-lapels, and turnbacks. A white waist coat,
                    > blue trousers with white seams, and a black round hat
                    > with a black cockade. Many of the more well to do
                    > companies designated themsleves as light infantry and
                    > adopted variations of this uniform regulation.

                    > As for riflemen, I must say you are incorrect with the
                    > hunting shirt being the uniform of the rifleman. Yes,
                    > the 1812 regulation called for a purple hunting shirt
                    > and purple trousers. The Mathews County Rifle companie
                    > adopted a uniform of a blue coat with black vest and
                    > black trousers. The hat was odd but I don't recall
                    > the exact configuration.
                    >
                    > It's late and I could go into more detail once I get
                    > my facts together. I will post more at a later time.
                    >
                    > Brian Howard
                    > 2nd Virginia Regt., 1813-1815
                    >
                    >
                    > --- md5_yager <md5_yager@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Dan,
                    > > I'd hazard that an answer to your question could
                    > > almost fill a small
                    > > book. But to take a very general overview, here are
                    > > some personal
                    > > opinions.
                    > >
                    > > As for light infantry companies in regular US
                    > > regiments, I'll leave
                    > > that for rep's/historians of those recreated units.
                    > >
                    > > As for State militias up to the War of 1812, I offer
                    > > some
                    > > observations from personal study. The short answer
                    > > is that
                    > > one could make a claim that all of the state
                    > > militias were "light"
                    > > infantry, in that their military training (drill,
                    > > maneuver
                    > > evolutions, etc.), where there was any, was never on
                    > > a par with
                    > > regular infantry. State militia service traced back
                    > > to the earliest
                    > > colonial periods, being a requirement for
                    > > able-bodied males in the
                    > > designated age range, which varied over time, but
                    > > often from 16-50.
                    > > For the vast majority, this meant nothing more than
                    > > being a name on
                    > > the company commander's muster role, and maybe
                    > > showing up at
                    > > infrequent drills.
                    > >
                    > > Virginia for a time used militia districts to
                    > > determine who was in a
                    > > company, based on census location. The numbers I
                    > > have seen in
                    > > Virginia the post-RevWar period suggested a variable
                    > > 60-80 men per
                    > > company. If a militia draft occurred, it usually did
                    > > not mean
                    > > everyone reported due to hardship that would result
                    > > in agrarian
                    > > culture. Attempts were made to get enough of the
                    > > company to
                    > > volunteer, to meet quotas. And there was a process
                    > > for substitutes.
                    > >
                    > > No companies in southwest Virginia or western North
                    > > Carolina, for
                    > > example were designated 'light infantry', since many
                    > > of these were
                    > > (for historical and weapons reasons) designated
                    > > rifle companies. This
                    > > was economical, as a hunting frock was often the
                    > > official State
                    > > uniform. And it capitalized on long-standing
                    > > familiarity with rifles,
                    > > and hunting dress. (I know some may think this
                    > > sounds like its from a
                    > > Davy Crockett movie script, but know that there were
                    > > small Indian war-
                    > > party raids in east Tennessee, albeit infrequent,
                    > > into the mid 1790s.)
                    > >
                    > > In most areas, it appears that men were also free to
                    > > constitute their
                    > > own independent, uniformed companies. Incredibly,
                    > > there was no public
                    > > fear or shock at the sight of organized groups of
                    > > men carrying and
                    > > drilling with guns in public in those times. People
                    > > actually welcomed
                    > > it. But I digress... Uniformed companies could be
                    > > found in Baltimore,
                    > > Maryland, and some other cities. Maryland had
                    > > companies which
                    > > retained the name "Light Infantry" from the RevWar
                    > > period right up to
                    > > the time of the War of 1812. Baltimore also had a
                    > > independent "Yager"
                    > > company. (you Prussian fans spelled it as "Jager" or
                    > > "Jaeger"). At
                    > > the battle of North Point, Baltimore, Maryland in
                    > > 1814, historical
                    > > records show they functioned as skirmishers,
                    > > although evidently armed
                    > > with muskets. There was a independent, uniformed
                    > > "First Baltimore
                    > > Light Infantry Company" at the same battle, that
                    > > traced back to the
                    > > Revolutionary War. But I have not yet seen evidence
                    > > they fought
                    > > independently from other line infantry companies in
                    > > the 5th Regiment,
                    > > Maryland Militia they were attached to. Local
                    > > military commanders
                    > > attached rifle units to at least a couple of the
                    > > infantry regiments
                    > > at that battle. But organizationally, a Rifle
                    > > Battalion was a
                    > > separate entity.
                    > >
                    > > ... This only gives a few details about variation
                    > > from State to
                    > > State, and within each State. (As I said, you could
                    > > fill a small
                    > > book.) US law mandated State militias, but their
                    > > organization,
                    > > uniforms, training, and fighting quality was a
                    > > proverbial 'patchwork-
                    > > quilt'. The War of 1812 certainly brought to light
                    > > many of the
                    > > organizational and political management problems of
                    > > the US Government
                    > > relying on augmenting US forces with State militias.
                    > >
                    > > Dave Welch
                    > > Sadtler's Baltimore Yagers Company
                    > > 5th Reg't, Maryland Militia
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "dan_055"
                    > > <dan_055@y...> wrote:
                    > > > This may be a dumb question, but did the American
                    > > > regular regiments have light companies? How about
                    > >
                    > > > the State or militia regiments?
                    > > >
                    > > > If not, what happened to all the light infantry
                    > > > made famous during the revolution?
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks,
                    > > > Dan
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > __________________________________________________
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                  • Brian Howard
                    Dave, Did not mean to cause you any discomfort and my appologies if I did so with my response. Your Hollywood analogy is correct when it comes to the rifleman
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jun 7, 2005
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                      Dave,
                      Did not mean to cause you any discomfort and my
                      appologies if I did so with my response. Your
                      Hollywood analogy is correct when it comes to the
                      rifleman image. I remember the movie "The Buccaneer"
                      with Yul Brenner as John Lafeet. Gotta love those
                      early movies especially with Charleton Heston as
                      Jackson.

                      You are on the mark with the variation of the
                      uniforms. Seemed that by the end of the war the
                      militia of Virginia was wearing the uniform of the US
                      army. Governor Barbour issued an order in April of
                      1813 that the militia was to adopt the regular
                      infantry uniform. Seems that this was largely ignored
                      in that the Adjutant General reinterated this order in
                      orders dated March of 1814.

                      By the way, I think my parents still have my coonskin
                      cap in a trunk in their attic. Wonder how much it
                      would go for on Ebay?

                      Brian

                      --- md5_yager <md5_yager@...> wrote:

                      > Brian,
                      > Your example of the Mathews County company is a good
                      > example of what
                      > I described as an independent, uniformed company.
                      > This "Volunteer
                      > Rifles" company even had their own constitution. The
                      > silver
                      > epaulettes of their officers must have been
                      > splendid. Mathews County
                      > on the Chesapeake Bay is a pretty far piece from the
                      > piedmont and
                      > mountain counties of Virginia, where the militia
                      > rifle companies and
                      > mounted volunteers were not so fashionably dressed.
                      >
                      > One could devote many pages to the colorful
                      > variations of uniform to
                      > be found among many such companies across the
                      > States. Many on this
                      > list probably are familiar with several excellent
                      > published sources
                      > on such. Variety in militia dress stemmed from many
                      > factors. North
                      > Carolina had a volunteer cavalry with with blue
                      > round jackets, and
                      > white pantaloons. But at the start of the war, there
                      > was no
                      > regulation uniform, leading Governor Hawkins had to
                      > draw up a design.
                      > Major William Hamilton was placed in charge of
                      > recruiting in North
                      > Carolina and promised to equip volunteers in "RIFLE
                      > DRESS and give
                      > you your FAVORITE WEAPON". (I daresay the latter was
                      > not a Bess or
                      > Charleville, subject to the limits of supply from US
                      > depots and
                      > contrators.) Hollywood notwithstanding, the dress of
                      > Tennessee and
                      > Kentucky mounted volunteers is legendary.
                      >
                      > As noted in earlier posting, State militias, both
                      > volunteers and
                      > draftees, were heavily relied upon to augment US
                      > Forces. A reader had
                      > asked what became of American light infantry units
                      > of the RevWar
                      > period. I was suggesting that the role of light
                      > infantry units among
                      > State forces was, by 1812, made unremarkable by
                      > sheer weight of
                      > overall militia quotas States were directed to
                      > provide.
                      >
                      > I don't think I implied that light infantry units
                      > did not exist, or
                      > see combat. In fact, several in Maryland were
                      > employed like quick-
                      > reaction teams to respond to British landing parties
                      > in the
                      > Chesapeake. But across the spectrum of State units,
                      > both volunteer
                      > and drafted, the record and tactics suggest to me
                      > that it was
                      > frequently ad hoc, "come as you are" campaigns -- by
                      > combatants with
                      > little-to-no formal military training. But as
                      > Horseshoe Bend, New
                      > Orleans and other battles demonstrate, to borrow a
                      > phrase they didn't
                      > have to "dress for success".
                      >
                      > (Now what did I do with that old coonskin cap, it
                      > was here
                      > someplace... <grin>)
                      > Dave
                      >
                      > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Brian Howard
                      > <chippokes@y...> wrote:
                      > > Dave,
                      > > Davy Crockett aside, Virginia did maintain militia
                      > > companies that were designated "Light Infantry".
                      > > Governor Barbour in Jan of 1812 specified a Light
                      > > Infantry uniform of a blue coat with white collar,
                      > > cuffs, half-lapels, and turnbacks. A white waist
                      > coat,
                      > > blue trousers with white seams, and a black round
                      > hat
                      > > with a black cockade. Many of the more well to do
                      > > companies designated themsleves as light infantry
                      > and
                      > > adopted variations of this uniform regulation.
                      >
                      > > As for riflemen, I must say you are incorrect with
                      > the
                      > > hunting shirt being the uniform of the rifleman.
                      > Yes,
                      > > the 1812 regulation called for a purple hunting
                      > shirt
                      > > and purple trousers. The Mathews County Rifle
                      > companie
                      > > adopted a uniform of a blue coat with black vest
                      > and
                      > > black trousers. The hat was odd but I don't
                      > recall
                      > > the exact configuration.
                      > >
                      > > It's late and I could go into more detail once I
                      > get
                      > > my facts together. I will post more at a later
                      > time.
                      > >
                      > > Brian Howard
                      > > 2nd Virginia Regt., 1813-1815
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- md5_yager <md5_yager@y...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > Dan,
                      > > > I'd hazard that an answer to your question could
                      > > > almost fill a small
                      > > > book. But to take a very general overview, here
                      > are
                      > > > some personal
                      > > > opinions.
                      > > >
                      > > > As for light infantry companies in regular US
                      > > > regiments, I'll leave
                      > > > that for rep's/historians of those recreated
                      > units.
                      > > >
                      > > > As for State militias up to the War of 1812, I
                      > offer
                      > > > some
                      > > > observations from personal study. The short
                      > answer
                      > > > is that
                      > > > one could make a claim that all of the state
                      > > > militias were "light"
                      > > > infantry, in that their military training
                      > (drill,
                      > > > maneuver
                      > > > evolutions, etc.), where there was any, was
                      > never on
                      > > > a par with
                      > > > regular infantry. State militia service traced
                      > back
                      > > > to the earliest
                      > > > colonial periods, being a requirement for
                      > > > able-bodied males in the
                      > > > designated age range, which varied over time,
                      > but
                      > > > often from 16-50.
                      > > > For the vast majority, this meant nothing more
                      > than
                      > > > being a name on
                      > > > the company commander's muster role, and maybe
                      > > > showing up at
                      > > > infrequent drills.
                      > > >
                      > > > Virginia for a time used militia districts to
                      > > > determine who was in a
                      > > > company, based on census location. The numbers I
                      > > > have seen in
                      > > > Virginia the post-RevWar period suggested a
                      > variable
                      > > > 60-80 men per
                      > > > company. If a militia draft occurred, it usually
                      > did
                      > > > not mean
                      > > > everyone reported due to hardship that would
                      > result
                      > > > in agrarian
                      > > > culture. Attempts were made to get enough of the
                      > > > company to
                      > > > volunteer, to meet quotas. And there was a
                      > process
                      > > > for substitutes.
                      > > >
                      > > > No companies in southwest Virginia or western
                      > North
                      > > > Carolina, for
                      > > > example were designated 'light infantry', since
                      > many
                      > > > of these were
                      > > > (for historical and weapons reasons) designated
                      > > > rifle companies. This
                      > > > was economical, as a hunting frock was often the
                      > > > official State
                      > > > uniform. And it capitalized on long-standing
                      > > > familiarity with rifles,
                      > > > and hunting dress. (I know some may think this
                      > > > sounds like its from a
                      > > > Davy Crockett movie script, but know that there
                      > were
                      > > > small Indian war-
                      > > > party raids in east Tennessee, albeit
                      > infrequent,
                      > > > into the mid 1790s.)
                      > > >
                      > > > In most areas, it appears that men were also
                      > free
                      === message truncated ===




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                    • md5_yager
                      Brian, No apology needed. Between us I hope we cleared some of the fog of war for readers concerning light infantry and rifle companies of the militia. What
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jun 8, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Brian,
                        No apology needed. Between us I hope we cleared some of the "fog
                        of war" for readers concerning light infantry and rifle companies of
                        the militia. What is sometimes called the "second British War"
                        or "second war of Independence" was briefer, but undoubtedly more
                        hotly fought, and over a much bigger piece of the continent.

                        If you are associated with Ft. Norfolk, I'll beg the indulgence
                        of the List, to mention Charles Sexton, who had the honor to serve
                        your State's Governor (probably Barbour's successor Nelson). Drafted
                        August 2,1814 at Russell County Court House into Captain John
                        Hammon's Co'y, 5th Reg't, Virginia Militia. Discharged at Ft. Nelson
                        March 20, 1815. His widow applied in 1872 for a pension in his name,
                        for his 231 days service. But only after attesting "that at no time
                        during the late rebellion against the authority of the United States
                        did he adhere to the cause of the enemies of the Government giving
                        them aid or comfort"

                        ... But that "late rebellion" is another story and one for another
                        list.

                        I have the pleasure to be
                        your Mo: ob: servt,
                        Dave Welch
                        5th Reg't, Maryland Militia



                        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Brian Howard <chippokes@y...> wrote:
                        > Dave,
                        > Did not mean to cause you any discomfort and my
                        > appologies if I did so with my response. Your
                        > Hollywood analogy is correct when it comes to the
                        > rifleman image. I remember the movie "The Buccaneer"
                        > with Yul Brenner as John Lafeet. Gotta love those
                        > early movies especially with Charleton Heston as
                        > Jackson.
                        >
                        > You are on the mark with the variation of the
                        > uniforms. Seemed that by the end of the war the
                        > militia of Virginia was wearing the uniform of the US
                        > army. Governor Barbour issued an order in April of
                        > 1813 that the militia was to adopt the regular
                        > infantry uniform. Seems that this was largely ignored
                        > in that the Adjutant General reinterated this order in
                        > orders dated March of 1814.
                        >
                        > By the way, I think my parents still have my coonskin
                        > cap in a trunk in their attic. Wonder how much it
                        > would go for on Ebay?
                        >
                        > Brian
                        >
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