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Re: British Indian Department

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  • Peter Monahan
    Chris The idea of asking a Crown Forces officer to conduct a safety course sounds like a sensible one and well worth pursuing. Out of genuine curiosity, and no
    Message 1 of 21 , May 20, 2005
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      Chris

      The idea of asking a Crown Forces officer to conduct a safety course sounds like a sensible one and well worth pursuing.

      Out of genuine curiosity, and no insult intended, but who are the executive members (other than yourself) of the British Indian Department? The letter is unsigned and I honestly don't recall anyone identifying themselves as "B.I.D" at our officers'/NCOs'calls.

      Does the B.I.D. represent both the British Native Allies and ON-GWE-HO-WAY, making it an umbrella group, or is it a third group?

      Respectfully,
      Peter Monahan, Sergeant,
      Royal Newfoundland Reg't
      ============================================================
      From: "Chris" <littlefeatherscrafts@...>
      Date: 2005/05/20 Fri AM 10:16:42 EST
      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [WarOf1812] I was asked to pass this on Thanks

      Peter Twist

      Tim Pickles

      Dear Sirs,



      We would respectfully ask permission to bring to your attention some
      current information. In viewing your fine crown forces website, we
      have noticed that some of your information is no longer up to date.
      George Thomas is not the current contact for the British Indian
      Department, in our last election Chris Wilkinson was chosen for and
      accepted this responsibility. The B.I.D. has been in existence for
      over 30 years. We currently recognize the following groups:

      - British Native Allies, George Thomas

      - ON-GWE-HO-WAY., David Morris

      Please update your websites accordingly.


      We have followed some of the e-mails with interest, regarding safety
      issues on the field. At this time, the B.I.D. is not aware of any
      safety issues that would concern either group in question. As a
      resolution to the issue, we would propose that a safety committee be
      established for native and non-regular units. We would suggest that
      this safety committee be formed with one member of the BID and one
      member of each of the other two groups. If any groups wish to field
      and are not a part of the US or Crown forces, they would be welcome
      to join this safety committee.

      To alleviate any existing concerns we wondered if we could impose
      upon any members of the crown forces to offer a safety course, and
      we are sure there would be no objection to a modest stipend being
      given to compensate for the officers time. If you find this an
      acceptable solution, could you recommend a few personnel that might
      be willing to assist in this important area?

      Finally, we have heard rumours of more serious issues that may or
      may not have merit. This issue involve threats and as they are
      wrong and illegal, they should be address to the police to
      investigate properly.

      Thank you for your time and consideration, we await your response.



      Regards,





      British Indian Department







      The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

      Unit Contact information for North America:
      ---------------------------------
      Crown Forces Unit Listing:
      http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

      American Forces Unit Lisiting
      http://usforces1812.tripod.com
      Yahoo! Groups Links





      ============================================================


      Peter Monahan
      petemonahan@...
      705-435-0953 H / 905-936-4743 W
    • Chris
      Yes Peter Monahan I would have to answer your qustion with a yes I would say since History has been wrote I would be the group that would represent The British
      Message 2 of 21 , May 20, 2005
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        Yes Peter Monahan I would have to answer your qustion with a yes I
        would say since History has been wrote I would be the group that would
        represent The British Native Allies (Four Directions)and On-Gwe-Ho-Way
        (People Of Turtle Island) As of last year I was voted in buy the hole
        British Indian Department to be command and control of the B.I.D so
        with this I would like to be able to fill that role as it should be as
        it is writen in History I have been in this hobby now for 24 years and
        have been in good groups that have never had a Safty problem so with
        that yes we have not been to a meeting but as far as I know this group
        it has been a group that has only been to a couple events around the
        Niagara area but is a well know group in the eastern part of Ontario
        now that I got the big chair B.I.D well be at all event's this year so
        yes please fell free to give me any info I need also I would like to
        add we have two traning weekends planed for this year we just got to
        get are dates together for are safty and gun handing drill weekend so
        as soon as I get these dates together I well info you
        Thanks always help full
        Chris Wilkinson
      • Kevin Windsor
        For Chris Wilkinson Sorry Chris I am at work and your eddress is at home. At Fort Erie you asked about the British Indian Department Uniform.
        Message 3 of 21 , Sep 7, 2005
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          For Chris Wilkinson
          Sorry Chris I am at work and your eddress is at home.

          At Fort Erie you asked about the British Indian Department Uniform.

          http://www.windsorpubliclibrary.com/digi/war1812/contents/introductio
          n/military.htm

          If you unwrap this link it will lead you to two pictures of Matthew
          Elliot's coat and Francis Caldwell. Based on your age and rank I
          would recommend the Caldwell coat.

          Also as of 1908 (sorry I am a little out of date) there was a coat
          belonging to Captain Louis Grignon of the Indian Department in the
          State Historical Society Museum of Wisconsin.
          Contact (as of 2005) Paul Bourcier, Chief Curator 816 State Street
          Madison, WI 53706-1488 608-264-6573.

          The coats are Scarlet with green facings and plain brass buttons.

          Hope this helps.
          Kevin Windsor
        • Chris
          Looking for some info trying to get some idea on are uniform be looking at can t find nothing if you got any info please snd reply. Thanks First in Command of
          Message 4 of 21 , Apr 29, 2007
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            Looking for some info trying to get some idea on are uniform be looking
            at can't find nothing if you got any info please snd reply.
            Thanks
            First in Command of B.I.D Chris Wilkinson
          • Ray Hobbs
            Chris: I am sorry but this message is almost unintelligible. If you are looking for Indian Department uniforms, then contact John MacLeod at Fort Malden. See
            Message 5 of 21 , Apr 29, 2007
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              Chris:
              I am sorry but this message is almost unintelligible. If you are
              looking for Indian Department uniforms, then contact John MacLeod at
              Fort Malden. See <John.MacLeod@...> Fort Malden has Matthew
              Elliott's original uniform, and a handsome one is it too.
              If you are looking for what the Native Allies wore then Wolf Thomas is
              an excellent source of information. see
              <britishnativeallies@...>
              Yr svt etc.
              Ray Hobbs
              CO 41st Regt

              On 29-Apr-07, at 3:29 PM, Chris wrote:

              > Looking for some info trying to get some idea on are uniform be looking
              > at can't find nothing if you got any info please snd reply.
              > Thanks
              > First in Command of B.I.D Chris Wilkinson
              >
              >
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ian Gardner
              If you re looking for information from Wolf, don t expect a speedy reply. He s hip-deep in negotiations with the Ontario government over the Haldimand Tract
              Message 6 of 21 , Apr 29, 2007
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                If you're looking for information from Wolf, don't expect a speedy
                reply. He's hip-deep in negotiations with the Ontario government over
                the Haldimand Tract issue.

                HTH
                Ian

                -----Original Message-----
                From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Ray Hobbs
                Sent: April 29, 2007 7:57 PM
                To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [War Of 1812] British Indian Department

                Chris:
                I am sorry but this message is almost unintelligible. If you are
                looking for Indian Department uniforms, then contact John MacLeod at
                Fort Malden. See <John.MacLeod@ <mailto:John.MacLeod%40pc.gc.ca>
                pc.gc.ca> Fort Malden has Matthew
                Elliott's original uniform, and a handsome one is it too.
                If you are looking for what the Native Allies wore then Wolf Thomas is
                an excellent source of information. see
                <britishnativeallies <mailto:britishnativeallies%40rogers.com>
                @...>
                Yr svt etc.
                Ray Hobbs
                CO 41st Regt

                On 29-Apr-07, at 3:29 PM, Chris wrote:

                > Looking for some info trying to get some idea on are uniform be
                looking
                > at can't find nothing if you got any info please snd reply.
                > Thanks
                > First in Command of B.I.D Chris Wilkinson
                >
                >
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • ronaldjdale@netscape.net
                There did not seem to be an official Indian Department uniform until the 1820s when a green uniform was developed. Prior to that, Indian Department officers
                Message 7 of 21 , Apr 29, 2007
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                  There did not seem to be an official Indian Department uniform until the 1820s when a green uniform was developed. Prior to that, Indian Department officers had red officers coats made for thems, if they did not already have one for militia rank. Matthew Elliott, for example, wore his red coat of the Essex militia.

                  If you are depicting an officer, an officer's red coat like those for the militia would do fine. If representing an interpreter, clerk, blacksmith, etc., then civilian clothing would be correct--probably with some Aboriginal pieces if an interpreter.

                  Ron


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: littlefeatherscrafts@...
                  To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 3:29 PM
                  Subject: [War Of 1812] British Indian Department


                  Looking for some info trying to get some idea on are uniform be looking
                  at can't find nothing if you got any info please snd reply.
                  Thanks
                  First in Command of B.I.D Chris Wilkinson



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                • ronaldjdale@netscape.net
                  My earlier information may be incorrect. In Rene Chartrand s Osprey book on British Forces in North America, 1793-1815, he has an illustration based on a
                  Message 8 of 21 , Apr 29, 2007
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                    My earlier information may be incorrect. In Rene Chartrand's Osprey book on British Forces in North America, 1793-1815, he has an illustration based on a painting of William McKay, who was in the Indian Department but also an officer of the Lower Canadian Select Embodied Militia and of the Michigan Fencibles. I know the portrait and had assumed it was McKay's militia uniform. The portrait, however, was found to have been painted about 1816 for a fellow officer who specifically requested that McKay be portrayed in his Indian Department uniform.

                    The uniform shown seems to be a standard officer's red coat with blue or green facings ( I thought blue but Gerry Embleton painted his figure with green) and gold lace arranged in twos--as per the militia of the period.

                    The only reference that I have seen in orders is for the green uniform approved in 1823. I will have to re-read that document because I was under the impression that it made reference to it being the first ID uniform.

                    Ron


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: ronaldjdale@...
                    To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 9:14 PM
                    Subject: Re: [War Of 1812] British Indian Department


                    There did not seem to be an official Indian Department uniform until the 1820s when a green uniform was developed. Prior to that, Indian Department officers had red officers coats made for thems, if they did not already have one for militia rank. Matthew Elliott, for example, wore his red coat of the Essex militia.

                    If you are depicting an officer, an officer's red coat like those for the militia would do fine. If representing an interpreter, clerk, blacksmith, etc., then civilian clothing would be correct--probably with some Aboriginal pieces if an interpreter.

                    Ron


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: littlefeatherscrafts@...
                    To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 3:29 PM
                    Subject: [War Of 1812] British Indian Department

                    Looking for some info trying to get some idea on are uniform be looking
                    at can't find nothing if you got any info please snd reply.
                    Thanks
                    First in Command of B.I.D Chris Wilkinson

                    __________________________________________________________
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                  • Dale Kidd
                    ... blue or green facings ( I thought blue but Gerry Embleton painted his figure with green) and gold lace arranged in twos--as per the militia of the period.
                    Message 9 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
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                      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, ronaldjdale@... wrote:

                      > The uniform shown seems to be a standard officer's red coat with
                      blue or green facings ( I thought blue but Gerry Embleton painted
                      his figure with green) and gold lace arranged in twos--as per the
                      militia of the period.


                      I asked several knowledgeable people about this very issue last
                      season, and noone seemed very certain about it. I can't remember who
                      it was, but someone (David Morris, perhaps?) told me that they had
                      seen references in their own research to Indian Department officers
                      wearing red coats with green facings. I also recall it being
                      mentioned that these may or may not have been "official".

                      I am inclined to think that the green facings are more likely than
                      blue. As blue facings were reserved for Royal regiments, having blue
                      facings would probably have consitituted a fairly serious breach of
                      protocol. Indian Department officers had to be diplomatic by nature,
                      and so would have been unlikely to do something with such potential
                      to alienate the army officers on whom they so heavily relied.

                      ~Dale
                    • J.Bruce Whittaker
                      ... wrote: Looking for some info trying to get some idea on are uniform be looking at can t find nothing if you got any info please snd reply. Thanks First in
                      Message 10 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
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                        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <littlefeatherscrafts@...>
                        wrote:

                        Looking for some info trying to get some idea on are uniform be looking
                        at can't find nothing if you got any info please snd reply.
                        Thanks
                        First in Command of B.I.D Chris Wilkinson

                        Hi Chris,
                        Try the web site provided below and type in British Indian Department
                        in the search box. You will find a picture representing an officer of
                        the British Indian Department during the War of 1812.
                        Regards,
                        Bruce Whittaker
                        British Native Allies

                        www.cmhg.gc.ca
                      • Dale Kidd
                        Ah, well, there we are. Great picture. That gives us a much clearer impression of the uniform. Thanks, Bruce! ~Dale ... Department ... of
                        Message 11 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
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                          Ah, well, there we are. Great picture. That gives us a much clearer
                          impression of the uniform. Thanks, Bruce!

                          ~Dale

                          > Hi Chris,
                          > Try the web site provided below and type in British Indian
                          Department
                          > in the search box. You will find a picture representing an officer
                          of
                          > the British Indian Department during the War of 1812.
                          > Regards,
                          > Bruce Whittaker
                          > British Native Allies
                          >
                          > www.cmhg.gc.ca
                          >
                        • James Yaworsky
                          ... the 1820s when a green uniform was developed. Prior to that, Indian Department officers had red officers coats made for thems, if they did not already
                          Message 12 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
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                            --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, ronaldjdale@... wrote:
                            >
                            > There did not seem to be an official Indian Department uniform until
                            the 1820s when a green uniform was developed. Prior to that, Indian
                            Department officers had red officers coats made for thems, if they did
                            not already have one for militia rank. Matthew Elliott, for example,
                            wore his red coat of the Essex militia.

                            Jim here. The coat is on display at Fort Malden, and is, I do
                            believe, faced "blue"... and the Essex militia was definitely not a
                            Royal Regiment!

                            Jim Yaworsky
                            41st
                          • ronaldjdale@netscape.net
                            Hi Jim, The prescribed uniform for Upper Canadian militia officers was a red coat with blue facings. The Niagara museum has a few samples of original Lincoln
                            Message 13 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
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                              Hi Jim,

                              The prescribed uniform for Upper Canadian militia officers was a red coat with blue facings. The Niagara museum has a few samples of original Lincoln Militia coattees that match these regulations.

                              Ron

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: yawors1@...
                              To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:45 AM
                              Subject: [War Of 1812] British Indian Department - officers coats faced blue, green, or...


                              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, ronaldjdale@... wrote:
                              >
                              > There did not seem to be an official Indian Department uniform until
                              the 1820s when a green uniform was developed. Prior to that, Indian
                              Department officers had red officers coats made for thems, if they did
                              not already have one for militia rank. Matthew Elliott, for example,
                              wore his red coat of the Essex militia.

                              Jim here. The coat is on display at Fort Malden, and is, I do
                              believe, faced "blue"... and the Essex militia was definitely not a
                              Royal Regiment!

                              Jim Yaworsky
                              41st



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                            • ronaldjdale@netscape.net
                              Hello Gang, The illustration on the cmhg site, scarlet faced green, is based on Rene Chartrands assumptions from the McKay portrait. If anyone has an actual
                              Message 14 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
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                                Hello Gang,

                                The illustration on the cmhg site, "scarlet faced green," is based on Rene Chartrands assumptions from the McKay portrait. If anyone has an actual historic reference to an approved Indian Department uniform, I would love to see it.

                                Has anyone done research into the sealed patterns at the PRO?

                                Ron

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: ortheris@...
                                To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:16 AM
                                Subject: [War Of 1812] Re: British Indian Department


                                --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <littlefeatherscrafts@...>
                                wrote:

                                Looking for some info trying to get some idea on are uniform be looking
                                at can't find nothing if you got any info please snd reply.
                                Thanks
                                First in Command of B.I.D Chris Wilkinson

                                Hi Chris,
                                Try the web site provided below and type in British Indian Department
                                in the search box. You will find a picture representing an officer of
                                the British Indian Department during the War of 1812.
                                Regards,
                                Bruce Whittaker
                                British Native Allies

                                www.cmhg.gc.ca



                                ________________________________________________________________________
                                Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection.


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • James Yaworsky
                                ... coat with blue facings. The Niagara museum has a few samples of original Lincoln Militia coattees that match these regulations. ... So... blue is not
                                Message 15 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
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                                  --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, ronaldjdale@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hi Jim,
                                  >
                                  > The prescribed uniform for Upper Canadian militia officers was a red
                                  coat with blue facings. The Niagara museum has a few samples of
                                  original Lincoln Militia coattees that match these regulations.
                                  >
                                  > Ron

                                  So... blue is not reserved entirely for "royal" regiments, at least in
                                  Upper Canada... If militia officers are wearing blue faced coats,
                                  then maybe so are those of the Indian Department... the "they can't
                                  be because only Royal Regiments were faced blue" argument is
                                  apparently not valid...

                                  Jim
                                  41st
                                • larrylozon
                                  ronaldjdale wrote: If anyone has an actual historic reference to an approved Indian Department uniform, I would love to see it. As has been said before There
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
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                                    ronaldjdale wrote:

                                    If anyone has an actual historic reference to an approved Indian
                                    Department uniform, I would love to see it.




                                    As has been said before

                                    There were a large number of British Indian Department personnel at
                                    what is now Fort Malden across from Detroit.

                                    Tecumseh had dealings with the Indian Agent and his uniform is on
                                    display at Fort Malden.

                                    Visit
                                    http://www.pc.gc.ca/lhn-nhs/on/malden/index_e.asp


                                    Contact John MacLeod John.MacLeod (at) pc.gc.ca

                                    The uniforms on display are early war, scarlet with green facing and
                                    late war scarlet with blue facing.

                                    This should help all who want to do British Indian Department (War Of
                                    1812) ... 'actual Original uniforms'.


                                    Yrs.,
                                    Larry Lozon (L2)
                                    Upper Canada (Ontario)

                                    United States Forces 1812
                                    http://usforces1812.tripod.com

                                    Crown Forces North America 1812
                                    http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                                    2007 WAR Of 1812 Events
                                    http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist

                                    Sutlers & Merchants
                                    http://1812crownforces.tripod.com/sutlersmerchants
                                  • kevin.windsor@sympatico.ca
                                    Geez Ron, you d figure you of all people would know that!! ;-) Do you know who to contact at Ft Malden? You know ParksCan can be pretty intimidating for those
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
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                                      Geez Ron, you'd figure you of all people would know that!! ;-)
                                      Do you know who to contact at Ft Malden?
                                      You know ParksCan can be pretty intimidating for those not familiar with the system... ;-)

                                      Kevin

                                      > From: "larrylozon" <larrylozon@...>
                                      >
                                      > Contact John MacLeod John.MacLeod (at) pc.gc.ca
                                      >
                                      > The uniforms on display are early war, scarlet with green facing and
                                      > late war scarlet with blue facing.
                                      >
                                      > This should help all who want to do British Indian Department (War Of
                                      > 1812) ... 'actual Original uniforms'.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Yrs.,
                                      > Larry Lozon (L2)
                                      > Upper Canada (Ontario)
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • ronaldjdale@netscape.net
                                      Hi Kevin, Oh, I am very familiar with these coats. Matthew Elliot s coat was likely made after 1794 when orders were issued requiring the Militia of Upper
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Apr 30, 2007
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                                        Hi Kevin,

                                        Oh, I am very familiar with these coats. Matthew Elliot's coat was likely made after 1794 when orders were issued requiring the Militia of Upper Canada to wear red coats with blue facings. The coat has been greatly altered and includes the addition of panels to increase the size of the coat as Elliott's girth expanded. Red coats with green facings arrived in Upper Canada in the Spring of 1814 and some officers adapted accordingly before the order of June, 1814 that they be dressed in red coats faced blue. In New Brunswick, in 1813, 3000 coats arrived for the militia, 1000 of which had blue facings. In Lower Canada, some regiments of militia had blue facings and some green, including the 5th Battalion of select embodied militia, which claimed the same William McKay as a member. His portrait could feature an Indian Department uniform or his Quebec militia uniform. John McLeod at Malden (john.McLeod@...) knows the collection intimately and could likely send photos of officers coats in their collection which include the above mentioned Elliott coat and another pre-1813 militia officer's coat, again red with green facings. John has recreated a section of Caldwell's Rangers who worked very closely with First Nations allies.

                                        A number of years ago there was a great deal of debate over a Rev War era coat in the Niagara Museum that had belonged to Daniel Servos of the Indian Department. Regulations were scoured here and in England for clothing warrants for the Indian Department and the earliest reference to an approved uniform was the green post-War of 1812 one. The documents suggested that Indian Department officers wear a red coat in Indian country and the conclusion was that this was a red coat cut in military style--not a specific Indian Department uniform.
                                        Ron


                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: kevin.windsor@...
                                        To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 4:28 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [War Of 1812] British Indian Department


                                        Geez Ron, you'd figure you of all people would know that!! ;-)
                                        Do you know who to contact at Ft Malden?
                                        You know ParksCan can be pretty intimidating for those not familiar with the system... ;-)

                                        Kevin

                                        > From: "larrylozon" <larrylozon@...>
                                        >
                                        > Contact John MacLeod John.MacLeod (at) pc.gc.ca
                                        >
                                        > The uniforms on display are early war, scarlet with green facing and
                                        > late war scarlet with blue facing.
                                        >
                                        > This should help all who want to do British Indian Department (War Of
                                        > 1812) ... 'actual Original uniforms'.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Yrs.,
                                        > Larry Lozon (L2)
                                        > Upper Canada (Ontario)
                                        >
                                        >



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                                      • HQ93rd@aol.com
                                        ... Turbans, I think. Oh, gad, you mean THOSE Indians... ;-) B 93rd SHRoFLHU www.93rdhighlanders.com THE Thin Red Line **************************************
                                        Message 19 of 21 , May 1, 2007
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                                          In a message dated 4/29/07 12:32:20 PM, littlefeatherscrafts@... writes:


                                          > Looking for some info trying to get some idea on are uniform be looking
                                          > at can't find nothing if you got any info please snd reply.
                                          > Thanks
                                          >

                                          Turbans, I think.

                                          Oh, gad, you mean THOSE Indians...
                                          ;-)
                                          B
                                          93rd SHRoFLHU
                                          www.93rdhighlanders.com
                                          THE Thin Red Line



                                          **************************************
                                          See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Chris Kimball
                                          Turbans, I think. Oh, gad, you mean THOSE Indians... ;-) B 93rd SHRoFLHU www.93rdhighlanders .com THE Thin Red Line Actually, true in both cases, at least for
                                          Message 20 of 21 , May 2, 2007
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                                            Turbans, I think.
                                            Oh, gad, you mean THOSE Indians...
                                            ;-)
                                            B
                                            93rd SHRoFLHU
                                            www.93rdhighlanders .com
                                            THE Thin Red Line


                                            Actually, true in both cases, at least for here in the south. Creeks, Choctaws, or folks from Bombay.
                                            Regards,
                                            Chris Kimball
                                            Okahumpkee, Native Warrior on the southern theater of operations


                                            ---------------------------------
                                            Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
                                            Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

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                                          • wolf_bna
                                            I was offered a Captain s commission on November, 26, 2004 to which I accepted. I have been unable to attend several events due to obligations to my Nation. As
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Jan 10, 2008
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                                              I was offered a Captain's commission on November, 26, 2004 to which I
                                              accepted. I have been unable to attend several events due to
                                              obligations to my Nation. As many of you know Six Nations is locked
                                              in a land dispute regarding the Haldimand Tract with the Federal and
                                              Provincial governments. Having the responsibility of sitting on one
                                              of the negotiating teams has demanded much of my time. Other members
                                              of the British Native Allies have attended many events although I
                                              have been absent. Nevertheless my lack of presence as a British
                                              Indian Department Captain is really of no consequence.

                                              That being said the following is a contracted description of the
                                              British Indian Department.

                                              In 1790 the British implemented the Constitutional Act which divided
                                              Canada into the provinces of Upper and Lower Canada. Each became
                                              separate political entities under the auspices of the Governor
                                              General. In Upper Canada the Lieutenant Governor and in Lower Canada
                                              the Representative of the Governor General would report directly to
                                              the Governor General. Below them were the Executive and Legislative
                                              bodies of both provinces.

                                              Prior to 1796 the responsibility for Indian Affairs belonged to the
                                              office of the Superintendent and Deputy Superintendent of Indian
                                              Affairs. The resident Indian Agents served under the Deputy
                                              Superintendent. This structure was employed in Lower Canada until
                                              1800 when responsibility was transferred to the Governor General. In
                                              Upper Canada in 1796 responsibility was transferred to the Lieutenant-
                                              Governor.

                                              During the War of 1812 Sir George Prevost was the Governor General
                                              (1812–1815).

                                              The Lieutenant-Governors were Sir Isaac Brock (1811-1812), Sir Roger
                                              Hale Sheaffe (1812-1813), Francis de Rottenburg (1813) and Sir Gordon
                                              Drummond (1813-1814). It should be noted that all of the Lieutenant-
                                              Governors were administrators and commanders of the forces in Upper
                                              Canada during the war.

                                              The responsibilities of the Indian Department during the war were
                                              administration, recruitment, providing of interpreters and the
                                              supplying of provisions. Authoritative and administrative duties
                                              belonged to the Governor General and the Lieutenant-Governor.
                                              Recruitment, interpretive and supply duties belonged to men employed
                                              in the Indian Department having intimate knowledge of the various
                                              Indigenous peoples.

                                              Each responsibility maintained its own ordinances. Administrative
                                              duties dealt with Treaties and other issues occasionally arising
                                              between British Subjects or the military and Native Allies.
                                              Recruiters recruited the alliance of Indigenous Nations to provide
                                              warriors for the Kings cause. Interpreters were required to
                                              communicate between the British and their various Native allies. The
                                              supplying of provisions to Native allies was an integral part of
                                              keeping them on the battlefield. Warriors were provided with the
                                              necessary accouterments for battle while their villages received the
                                              sustenance required while the men were on the field instead of
                                              hunting.

                                              War Chiefs were customarily employed by the Indian Department and
                                              given the rank of a Lieutenant or Captain. This logic was employed to
                                              assure Native allies of segregation from the structured British
                                              military regime. British military commanders could merely suggest but
                                              never execute orders to their Native allies and vice versa. The fact
                                              is that Native allies fought unfettered as an independent entity
                                              under the leadership of their own War Chiefs. A case in point is the
                                              Military's resolve of the rivalry between William Claus and John
                                              Teyoninhokarawen Norton.

                                              The British Indian Department in reality was an institution
                                              established to manage issues regarding the relationship between
                                              European and Indigenous peoples. While some B.I.D. officers and
                                              interpreters fought along side Native allies the Department never
                                              fought as a "cohesive military fighting unit" or commanded their
                                              allies. In fact, they were obligated to obey the commands of the War
                                              Chiefs if they chose to fight along side them. They were first and
                                              foremost administrators which developed into the modern Department of
                                              Indian Affairs that exists today.
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