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State Militia flags?

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  • lalozon
    From: Howard Helmer ... The Virginia Militia lost a regimental flag at the Battle of Hampton ... This flag has a white field with the
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 5, 2005
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      From: "Howard Helmer" <hh23890@...>

      " ... The Virginia Militia lost a regimental flag at the Battle of Hampton
      ... This flag has a white field with the
      federal Eagle in the middle with a banner below denoting the regiment of
      militia.





      Possibly visit

      http://www.cottonbalers.lynchburg.net/OurFlags.htm

      This visual aid of a flag may help.

      I remember being told that some US Regt flags where gold, yellow or white
      silk.

      Yrs.,
      L2
    • Ed Seufert
      I ve uploaded to the Yahoo group a picture of two flags, supposedly captured by the 85th at Bladensburg from militia units and currently residing in the
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 5, 2005
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        I've uploaded to the Yahoo group a picture of two flags, supposedly captured by the 85th at Bladensburg from militia units and currently residing in the Shropshire LI Regimental Museum.

        Ed Seufert, Cpl
        1812 Royal Marines
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: lalozon
        To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 12:25 PM
        Subject: [WarOf1812] State Militia flags?



        From: "Howard Helmer" <hh23890@...>

        " ... The Virginia Militia lost a regimental flag at the Battle of Hampton
        ... This flag has a white field with the
        federal Eagle in the middle with a banner below denoting the regiment of
        militia.





        Possibly visit

        http://www.cottonbalers.lynchburg.net/OurFlags.htm

        This visual aid of a flag may help.

        I remember being told that some US Regt flags where gold, yellow or white
        silk.

        Yrs.,
        L2






        The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

        Unit Contact information for North America:
        ---------------------------------
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        http://usforces1812.tripod.com



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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Kevin Windsor
        Ed, anyway to make them bigger?? They re really tiny! K
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 6, 2005
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          Ed, anyway to make them bigger?? They're really tiny!

          K
          ----- Original Message -----

          > I've uploaded to the Yahoo group a picture of two flags, supposedly
          > captured by the 85th at Bladensburg from militia units and currently
          > residing in the Shropshire LI Regimental Museum.
          >
          > Ed Seufert, Cpl
          > 1812 Royal Marines
        • Brian Howard
          Kevin, In the photos that Ed posted, it appears the left image is of the flag used by the James City Light Infantry of Virginia. There is a book, I believe
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 6, 2005
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            Kevin,

            In the photos that Ed posted, it appears the left
            image is of the flag used by the James City Light
            Infantry of Virginia. There is a book, I believe
            titled "Flags from Around the World" that has a
            drawing of this same flag.

            We of the 2nd Virginia Regiment used that drawing as
            the model for our flag. I will upload an image of our
            flag so you can see it better. If Ed can enlarge the
            images he posted, that would be even better.

            Hope this helps.

            Brian Howard
            2nd Virginia Regiment, 1813-1815

            --- Kevin Windsor <kevin.windsor@...> wrote:
            > Ed, anyway to make them bigger?? They're really
            > tiny!
            >
            > K
            > ----- Original Message -----
            >
            > > I've uploaded to the Yahoo group a picture of two
            > flags, supposedly
            > > captured by the 85th at Bladensburg from militia
            > units and currently
            > > residing in the Shropshire LI Regimental Museum.
            > >
            > > Ed Seufert, Cpl
            > > 1812 Royal Marines
            >
            >
            >

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          • LCpl_RM@comcast.net
            Kevin/Brian, By clicking on full size you can at least read the description. I will try to get a bigger image and repost. The interesting thing about the two
            Message 5 of 13 , Apr 6, 2005
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              Kevin/Brian,

              By clicking on full size you can at least read the description. I will try to get a bigger image and repost.

              The interesting thing about the two flags is that neither unit is listed as having been at Bladensburg! As there were several other excursions, both in Maryland and Virginia where the Army was landed and was in combat, quite possibly the colours where taken at one of those.

              There is another picture of a militia flag (I believe 68th Regt) which was captured at Hampton. I'll try to find the story behind that one also.

              Ed Seufert, Cpl
              1812 Royal Marines

              -------------- Original message --------------
              Kevin,

              In the photos that Ed posted, it appears the left
              image is of the flag used by the James City Light
              Infantry of Virginia. There is a book, I believe
              titled "Flags from Around the World" that has a
              drawing of this same flag.

              We of the 2nd Virginia Regiment used that drawing as
              the model for our flag. I will upload an image of our
              flag so you can see it better. If Ed can enlarge the
              images he posted, that would be even better.

              Hope this helps.

              Brian Howard
              2nd Virginia Regiment, 1813-1815

              --- Kevin Windsor <kevin.windsor@...> wrote:
              > Ed, anyway to make them bigger?? They're really
              > tiny!
              >
              > K
              > ----- Original Message -----
              >
              > > I've uploaded to the Yahoo group a picture of two
              > flags, supposedly
              > > captured by the 85th at Bladensburg from militia
              > units and currently
              > > residing in the Shropshire LI Regimental Museum.
              > >
              > > Ed Seufert, Cpl
              > > 1812 Royal Marines
              >
              >
              >

              __________________________________________________
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              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail.yahoo.com


              The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

              Unit Contact information for North America:
              ---------------------------------
              Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

              American Forces Unit Lisiting
              http://usforces1812.tripod.com




              Yahoo! Groups Links

              To visit your group on the web, go to:
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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ed Seufert
              Kevin/Brian, I tried uploading a bigger picture which was a .bmp but Yahoo would not accept it; only .jpg and .tif. I will try reformatting and send it again
              Message 6 of 13 , Apr 6, 2005
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                Kevin/Brian,

                I tried uploading a bigger picture which was a .bmp but Yahoo would not accept it; only .jpg and .tif. I will try reformatting and send it again later.

                Meanwhile I also found the notes which accompanied the flag picture. Seems that the white flag is indeed that of the 68th (James City Light Infantry) which was more likely captured at Hampton instead of Bladensburg. The colour was captured by the 1st Batt Royal Marines and presented to Sir Sydney Beckwith. An additional colour of the 1st Batt, 85th (Virginia Militia) was apparently also presented. Both were then in turn given to Admiral Warren. The 68th flag somehow made its way to Chelsea and eventually to the Shropshire Museum.

                One of the things mentioned was the fact that Glieg (of the 85th) in his "Narratives" never mentions the fact that a colour was captured. Neither does the accompanying "Subaltern in America". But the "History of the Royal Marines Forces" does relate the above presentation!

                Does anyone know the American regiments present at Hampton in June 1813?

                Cheers,

                Ed Seufert, Cpl
                1812 Royal Marines
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Brian Howard
                To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:11 AM
                Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] State Militia flags?


                Kevin,

                In the photos that Ed posted, it appears the left
                image is of the flag used by the James City Light
                Infantry of Virginia. There is a book, I believe
                titled "Flags from Around the World" that has a
                drawing of this same flag.

                We of the 2nd Virginia Regiment used that drawing as
                the model for our flag. I will upload an image of our
                flag so you can see it better. If Ed can enlarge the
                images he posted, that would be even better.

                Hope this helps.

                Brian Howard
                2nd Virginia Regiment, 1813-1815

                --- Kevin Windsor <kevin.windsor@...> wrote:
                > Ed, anyway to make them bigger?? They're really
                > tiny!
                >
                > K
                > ----- Original Message -----
                >
                > > I've uploaded to the Yahoo group a picture of two
                > flags, supposedly
                > > captured by the 85th at Bladensburg from militia
                > units and currently
                > > residing in the Shropshire LI Regimental Museum.
                > >
                > > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                > > 1812 Royal Marines
                >
                >
                >

                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                http://mail.yahoo.com


                The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                Unit Contact information for North America:
                ---------------------------------
                Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                American Forces Unit Lisiting
                http://usforces1812.tripod.com



                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                Yahoo! Groups Links

                a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • PETER CATLEY
                Ed, Gleig may be the link through which the Colour went to the Hospital at Chelsea since he served there for many years. Cheers P** ... Kevin/Brian, I tried
                Message 7 of 13 , Apr 6, 2005
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                  Ed,

                  Gleig may be the link through which the Colour went to
                  the Hospital at Chelsea since he served there for many
                  years.

                  Cheers

                  P**

                  --- Ed Seufert <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:
                  ---------------------------------
                  Kevin/Brian,

                  I tried uploading a bigger picture which was a .bmp
                  but Yahoo would not accept it; only .jpg and .tif. I
                  will try reformatting and send it again later.

                  Meanwhile I also found the notes which accompanied the
                  flag picture. Seems that the white flag is indeed
                  that of the 68th (James City Light Infantry) which was
                  more likely captured at Hampton instead of
                  Bladensburg. The colour was captured by the 1st Batt
                  Royal Marines and presented to Sir Sydney Beckwith.
                  An additional colour of the 1st Batt, 85th (Virginia
                  Militia) was apparently also presented. Both were
                  then in turn given to Admiral Warren. The 68th flag
                  somehow made its way to Chelsea and eventually to the
                  Shropshire Museum.

                  One of the things mentioned was the fact that Glieg
                  (of the 85th) in his "Narratives" never mentions the
                  fact that a colour was captured. Neither does the
                  accompanying "Subaltern in America". But the "History
                  of the Royal Marines Forces" does relate the above
                  presentation!

                  Does anyone know the American regiments present at
                  Hampton in June 1813?

                  Cheers,

                  Ed Seufert, Cpl
                  1812 Royal Marines
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Brian Howard
                  To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:11 AM
                  Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] State Militia flags?


                  Kevin,

                  In the photos that Ed posted, it appears the left
                  image is of the flag used by the James City Light
                  Infantry of Virginia. There is a book, I believe
                  titled "Flags from Around the World" that has a
                  drawing of this same flag.

                  We of the 2nd Virginia Regiment used that drawing as
                  the model for our flag. I will upload an image of
                  our
                  flag so you can see it better. If Ed can enlarge the
                  images he posted, that would be even better.

                  Hope this helps.

                  Brian Howard
                  2nd Virginia Regiment, 1813-1815

                  --- Kevin Windsor <kevin.windsor@...>
                  wrote:
                  > Ed, anyway to make them bigger?? They're really
                  > tiny!
                  >
                  > K
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  >
                  > > I've uploaded to the Yahoo group a picture of
                  two
                  > flags, supposedly
                  > > captured by the 85th at Bladensburg from militia
                  > units and currently
                  > > residing in the Shropshire LI Regimental Museum.
                  > >
                  > > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                  > > 1812 Royal Marines
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  __________________________________________________
                  Do You Yahoo!?
                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                  protection around
                  http://mail.yahoo.com


                  The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
                  the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North
                  America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                  square miles...

                  Unit Contact information for North America:
                  ---------------------------------
                  Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                  http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                  American Forces Unit Lisiting
                  http://usforces1812.tripod.com



                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                  a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                  b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                  to:
                  WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                  c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                  Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the
                  fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America,
                  hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square
                  miles...

                  Unit Contact information for North America:
                  ---------------------------------
                  Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                  http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                  American Forces Unit Lisiting
                  http://usforces1812.tripod.com



                  ---------------------------------
                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                  To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                  Terms of Service.
                • PETER CATLEY
                  Ed, More information, perhaps more than you need! This may well have been Rev. GR Gleig, Chaplin to the Royal Hospital at Chelsea from 1834 until he resigned
                  Message 8 of 13 , Apr 7, 2005
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                    Ed,

                    More information, perhaps more than you need!

                    This may well have been Rev. GR Gleig, Chaplin to the
                    Royal Hospital at Chelsea from 1834 until he resigned
                    in 1848. He died in 1888 aged 92 therefore born 1796.

                    Gleig had cerved in the Army before taking up the
                    ministry. He later was the Chaplin-General and wrote
                    extensively including Chelsea Pensioners, Chelsea
                    hospital and its Traditions and the Veterans of
                    Chelsea Hospital ~ If anyone has any of these in the
                    attic I 'd love to know:-)

                    Cheers

                    P**

                    --- Ed Seufert <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:
                    ---------------------------------
                    Kevin/Brian,

                    I tried uploading a bigger picture which was a .bmp
                    but Yahoo would not accept it; only .jpg and .tif. I
                    will try reformatting and send it again later.

                    Meanwhile I also found the notes which accompanied the
                    flag picture. Seems that the white flag is indeed
                    that of the 68th (James City Light Infantry) which was
                    more likely captured at Hampton instead of
                    Bladensburg. The colour was captured by the 1st Batt
                    Royal Marines and presented to Sir Sydney Beckwith.
                    An additional colour of the 1st Batt, 85th (Virginia
                    Militia) was apparently also presented. Both were
                    then in turn given to Admiral Warren. The 68th flag
                    somehow made its way to Chelsea and eventually to the
                    Shropshire Museum.

                    One of the things mentioned was the fact that Glieg
                    (of the 85th) in his "Narratives" never mentions the
                    fact that a colour was captured. Neither does the
                    accompanying "Subaltern in America". But the "History
                    of the Royal Marines Forces" does relate the above
                    presentation!

                    Does anyone know the American regiments present at
                    Hampton in June 1813?

                    Cheers,

                    Ed Seufert, Cpl
                    1812 Royal Marines
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Brian Howard
                    To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:11 AM
                    Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] State Militia flags?


                    Kevin,

                    In the photos that Ed posted, it appears the left
                    image is of the flag used by the James City Light
                    Infantry of Virginia. There is a book, I believe
                    titled "Flags from Around the World" that has a
                    drawing of this same flag.

                    We of the 2nd Virginia Regiment used that drawing as
                    the model for our flag. I will upload an image of
                    our
                    flag so you can see it better. If Ed can enlarge the
                    images he posted, that would be even better.

                    Hope this helps.

                    Brian Howard
                    2nd Virginia Regiment, 1813-1815

                    --- Kevin Windsor <kevin.windsor@...>
                    wrote:
                    > Ed, anyway to make them bigger?? They're really
                    > tiny!
                    >
                    > K
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    >
                    > > I've uploaded to the Yahoo group a picture of
                    two
                    > flags, supposedly
                    > > captured by the 85th at Bladensburg from militia
                    > units and currently
                    > > residing in the Shropshire LI Regimental Museum.
                    > >
                    > > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                    > > 1812 Royal Marines
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    __________________________________________________
                    Do You Yahoo!?
                    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                    protection around
                    http://mail.yahoo.com


                    The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
                    the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North
                    America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                    square miles...

                    Unit Contact information for North America:
                    ---------------------------------
                    Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                    http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                    American Forces Unit Lisiting
                    http://usforces1812.tripod.com



                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    Yahoo! Groups Links

                    a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                    b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                    to:
                    WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                    c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                    Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                    The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the
                    fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America,
                    hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square
                    miles...

                    Unit Contact information for North America:
                    ---------------------------------
                    Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                    http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                    American Forces Unit Lisiting
                    http://usforces1812.tripod.com



                    ---------------------------------
                    Yahoo! Groups Links

                    To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                    Terms of Service.
                  • Ed Seufert
                    Peter, Thanks for the details. According to the article that accompanied the pictures, the colours were identiied as being captured by the 85th sometime in the
                    Message 9 of 13 , Apr 7, 2005
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                      Peter,

                      Thanks for the details.

                      According to the article that accompanied the pictures, the colours were identiied as being captured by the 85th sometime in the 1830's. In gives no indication (and there seems to be none) when they actually arrived at the hospital.

                      Warren upon receipt of the colours supposedly said that they should properly go back to the Royal Marines. Since the battalions after their brief stay in the Chesapeake in 1813 wound up in Canada and then were subsequently broken up, I would feel that they probably got shipped home with some of the wounded. The staffs of the two battalions wound up back in the Chesapeake late in 1814. Were Marines allowed at Chelsea or did they wind up at Greenwich?

                      Ed Seufert, Cpl
                      1812 Royal Marines

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: PETER CATLEY
                      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:13 AM
                      Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] State Militia flags?


                      Ed,

                      More information, perhaps more than you need!

                      This may well have been Rev. GR Gleig, Chaplin to the
                      Royal Hospital at Chelsea from 1834 until he resigned
                      in 1848. He died in 1888 aged 92 therefore born 1796.

                      Gleig had cerved in the Army before taking up the
                      ministry. He later was the Chaplin-General and wrote
                      extensively including Chelsea Pensioners, Chelsea
                      hospital and its Traditions and the Veterans of
                      Chelsea Hospital ~ If anyone has any of these in the
                      attic I 'd love to know:-)

                      Cheers

                      P**

                      --- Ed Seufert <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:
                      ---------------------------------
                      Kevin/Brian,

                      I tried uploading a bigger picture which was a .bmp
                      but Yahoo would not accept it; only .jpg and .tif. I
                      will try reformatting and send it again later.

                      Meanwhile I also found the notes which accompanied the
                      flag picture. Seems that the white flag is indeed
                      that of the 68th (James City Light Infantry) which was
                      more likely captured at Hampton instead of
                      Bladensburg. The colour was captured by the 1st Batt
                      Royal Marines and presented to Sir Sydney Beckwith.
                      An additional colour of the 1st Batt, 85th (Virginia
                      Militia) was apparently also presented. Both were
                      then in turn given to Admiral Warren. The 68th flag
                      somehow made its way to Chelsea and eventually to the
                      Shropshire Museum.

                      One of the things mentioned was the fact that Glieg
                      (of the 85th) in his "Narratives" never mentions the
                      fact that a colour was captured. Neither does the
                      accompanying "Subaltern in America". But the "History
                      of the Royal Marines Forces" does relate the above
                      presentation!

                      Does anyone know the American regiments present at
                      Hampton in June 1813?

                      Cheers,

                      Ed Seufert, Cpl
                      1812 Royal Marines
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Brian Howard
                      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:11 AM
                      Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] State Militia flags?


                      Kevin,

                      In the photos that Ed posted, it appears the left
                      image is of the flag used by the James City Light
                      Infantry of Virginia. There is a book, I believe
                      titled "Flags from Around the World" that has a
                      drawing of this same flag.

                      We of the 2nd Virginia Regiment used that drawing as
                      the model for our flag. I will upload an image of
                      our
                      flag so you can see it better. If Ed can enlarge the
                      images he posted, that would be even better.

                      Hope this helps.

                      Brian Howard
                      2nd Virginia Regiment, 1813-1815

                      --- Kevin Windsor <kevin.windsor@...>
                      wrote:
                      > Ed, anyway to make them bigger?? They're really
                      > tiny!
                      >
                      > K
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      >
                      > > I've uploaded to the Yahoo group a picture of
                      two
                      > flags, supposedly
                      > > captured by the 85th at Bladensburg from militia
                      > units and currently
                      > > residing in the Shropshire LI Regimental Museum.
                      > >
                      > > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                      > > 1812 Royal Marines
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      __________________________________________________
                      Do You Yahoo!?
                      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                      protection around
                      http://mail.yahoo.com


                      The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
                      the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North
                      America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                      square miles...

                      Unit Contact information for North America:
                      ---------------------------------
                      Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                      http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                      American Forces Unit Lisiting
                      http://usforces1812.tripod.com



                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Yahoo! Groups Links

                      a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                      b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                      to:
                      WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                      c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                      Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                      The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the
                      fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America,
                      hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square
                      miles...

                      Unit Contact information for North America:
                      ---------------------------------
                      Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                      http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                      American Forces Unit Lisiting
                      http://usforces1812.tripod.com



                      ---------------------------------
                      Yahoo! Groups Links

                      To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                      Terms of Service.


                      The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                      Unit Contact information for North America:
                      ---------------------------------
                      Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                      http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                      American Forces Unit Lisiting
                      http://usforces1812.tripod.com



                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Yahoo! Groups Links

                      a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                      b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                      c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • PETER CATLEY
                      Ed, I m afraid I did not know where they retired the Royal Marines to, certainly I ve seen no reference in the books on Chelsea but found this reference under
                      Message 10 of 13 , Apr 8, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Ed,

                        I'm afraid I did not know where they retired the Royal
                        Marines to, certainly I've seen no reference in the
                        books on Chelsea but found this reference under our
                        Vetrens Agency web site;

                        The Royal Greenwich Hospital
                        The Royal Greenwich Hospital was founded by Queen
                        Mary, who in 1694 gave the royal estate at Greenwich
                        for a house for pensioned seamen and marines. The
                        foundation stone was laid in 1696 and the first
                        pensioners were admitted in 1705. In 1716 the
                        forfeited estates of Lord Derwentwater were added to
                        the hospital's endowments.

                        In addition to the in-pensioners, the hospital also
                        maintained out-pensioners and provided pensions and
                        allowances for widows and orphans of seamen and
                        marines. A school for the sons of seamen was attached
                        to the hospital and in 1939 it absorbed the Royal
                        Naval Asylum for the children of seamen.

                        It ceased to house in-pensioners in 1869 and in 1873
                        the building became the home of the Royal Naval
                        College; but the hospital continued to administer the
                        school, which moved to Holbrook in 1933, and continued
                        to provide out-pensions and allowances of various
                        kinds

                        During our period many "trophies" were sent to Chelsea
                        because there was no alternative repository for them.

                        It is why Chelsea has six French Eagles depite being
                        right next door to the National Army Museum.

                        Cheers now.

                        P**

                        --- Ed Seufert <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:

                        ---------------------------------
                        Peter,

                        Thanks for the details.

                        According to the article that accompanied the
                        pictures, the colours were identiied as being captured
                        by the 85th sometime in the 1830's. In gives no
                        indication (and there seems to be none) when they
                        actually arrived at the hospital.

                        Warren upon receipt of the colours supposedly said
                        that they should properly go back to the Royal
                        Marines. Since the battalions after their brief stay
                        in the Chesapeake in 1813 wound up in Canada and then
                        were subsequently broken up, I would feel that they
                        probably got shipped home with some of the wounded.
                        The staffs of the two battalions wound up back in the
                        Chesapeake late in 1814. Were Marines allowed at
                        Chelsea or did they wind up at Greenwich?

                        Ed Seufert, Cpl
                        1812 Royal Marines

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: PETER CATLEY
                        To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:13 AM
                        Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] State Militia flags?


                        Ed,

                        More information, perhaps more than you need!

                        This may well have been Rev. GR Gleig, Chaplin to
                        the
                        Royal Hospital at Chelsea from 1834 until he
                        resigned
                        in 1848. He died in 1888 aged 92 therefore born
                        1796.

                        Gleig had cerved in the Army before taking up the
                        ministry. He later was the Chaplin-General and wrote
                        extensively including Chelsea Pensioners, Chelsea
                        hospital and its Traditions and the Veterans of
                        Chelsea Hospital ~ If anyone has any of these in the
                        attic I 'd love to know:-)

                        Cheers

                        P**

                        --- Ed Seufert <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:
                        ---------------------------------
                        Kevin/Brian,

                        I tried uploading a bigger picture which was a .bmp
                        but Yahoo would not accept it; only .jpg and .tif.
                        I
                        will try reformatting and send it again later.

                        Meanwhile I also found the notes which accompanied
                        the
                        flag picture. Seems that the white flag is indeed
                        that of the 68th (James City Light Infantry) which
                        was
                        more likely captured at Hampton instead of
                        Bladensburg. The colour was captured by the 1st
                        Batt
                        Royal Marines and presented to Sir Sydney Beckwith.
                        An additional colour of the 1st Batt, 85th (Virginia
                        Militia) was apparently also presented. Both were
                        then in turn given to Admiral Warren. The 68th flag
                        somehow made its way to Chelsea and eventually to
                        the
                        Shropshire Museum.

                        One of the things mentioned was the fact that Glieg
                        (of the 85th) in his "Narratives" never mentions the
                        fact that a colour was captured. Neither does the
                        accompanying "Subaltern in America". But the
                        "History
                        of the Royal Marines Forces" does relate the above
                        presentation!

                        Does anyone know the American regiments present at
                        Hampton in June 1813?

                        Cheers,

                        Ed Seufert, Cpl
                        1812 Royal Marines
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Brian Howard
                        To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:11 AM
                        Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] State Militia flags?


                        Kevin,

                        In the photos that Ed posted, it appears the left
                        image is of the flag used by the James City Light
                        Infantry of Virginia. There is a book, I believe
                        titled "Flags from Around the World" that has a
                        drawing of this same flag.

                        We of the 2nd Virginia Regiment used that drawing
                        as
                        the model for our flag. I will upload an image of
                        our
                        flag so you can see it better. If Ed can enlarge
                        the
                        images he posted, that would be even better.

                        Hope this helps.

                        Brian Howard
                        2nd Virginia Regiment, 1813-1815

                        --- Kevin Windsor <kevin.windsor@...>
                        wrote:
                        > Ed, anyway to make them bigger?? They're really
                        > tiny!
                        >
                        > K
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        >
                        > > I've uploaded to the Yahoo group a picture of
                        two
                        > flags, supposedly
                        > > captured by the 85th at Bladensburg from
                        militia
                        > units and currently
                        > > residing in the Shropshire LI Regimental
                        Museum.
                        > >
                        > > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                        > > 1812 Royal Marines
                        >
                        >
                        >

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                        The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
                        the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North
                        America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
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                        The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
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                        The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
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                        America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                        square miles...

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                        The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the
                        fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America,
                        hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square
                        miles...

                        Unit Contact information for North America:
                        ---------------------------------
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                      • Brian Howard
                        Ed, I am working on the units that were at Hampton as I type this. They were under the command of a Major Stapleton Crutchfield of York county, Virginia. Need
                        Message 11 of 13 , Apr 8, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Ed,
                          I am working on the units that were at Hampton as I
                          type this. They were under the command of a Major
                          Stapleton Crutchfield of York county, Virginia. Need
                          to piece the units together in one list but it appears
                          Crutchfield's command was known as the 1st Virginia
                          Regiment and was considered part of the Norfolk
                          command under General Robert B. Taylor. Taylor's
                          headquarters just happened to be at Fort Norfolk.

                          More to follow.

                          Brian Howard
                          2nd Virginia Regt.

                          --- Ed Seufert <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:
                          > Kevin/Brian,
                          >
                          > I tried uploading a bigger picture which was a .bmp
                          > but Yahoo would not accept it; only .jpg and .tif.
                          > I will try reformatting and send it again later.
                          >
                          > Meanwhile I also found the notes which accompanied
                          > the flag picture. Seems that the white flag is
                          > indeed that of the 68th (James City Light Infantry)
                          > which was more likely captured at Hampton instead of
                          > Bladensburg. The colour was captured by the 1st
                          > Batt Royal Marines and presented to Sir Sydney
                          > Beckwith. An additional colour of the 1st Batt,
                          > 85th (Virginia Militia) was apparently also
                          > presented. Both were then in turn given to Admiral
                          > Warren. The 68th flag somehow made its way to
                          > Chelsea and eventually to the Shropshire Museum.
                          >
                          > One of the things mentioned was the fact that Glieg
                          > (of the 85th) in his "Narratives" never mentions the
                          > fact that a colour was captured. Neither does the
                          > accompanying "Subaltern in America". But the
                          > "History of the Royal Marines Forces" does relate
                          > the above presentation!
                          >
                          > Does anyone know the American regiments present at
                          > Hampton in June 1813?
                          >
                          > Cheers,
                          >
                          > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                          > 1812 Royal Marines
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Brian Howard
                          > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:11 AM
                          > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] State Militia flags?
                          >
                          >
                          > Kevin,
                          >
                          > In the photos that Ed posted, it appears the left
                          > image is of the flag used by the James City Light
                          > Infantry of Virginia. There is a book, I believe
                          > titled "Flags from Around the World" that has a
                          > drawing of this same flag.
                          >
                          > We of the 2nd Virginia Regiment used that drawing
                          > as
                          > the model for our flag. I will upload an image of
                          > our
                          > flag so you can see it better. If Ed can enlarge
                          > the
                          > images he posted, that would be even better.
                          >
                          > Hope this helps.
                          >
                          > Brian Howard
                          > 2nd Virginia Regiment, 1813-1815
                          >
                          > --- Kevin Windsor <kevin.windsor@...>
                          > wrote:
                          > > Ed, anyway to make them bigger?? They're really
                          > > tiny!
                          > >
                          > > K
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > >
                          > > > I've uploaded to the Yahoo group a picture of
                          > two
                          > > flags, supposedly
                          > > > captured by the 85th at Bladensburg from
                          > militia
                          > > units and currently
                          > > > residing in the Shropshire LI Regimental
                          > Museum.
                          > > >
                          > > > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                          > > > 1812 Royal Marines
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          > __________________________________________________
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                          >
                          >
                          > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
                          > the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North
                          > America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
                          > of square miles...
                          >
                          > Unit Contact information for North America:
                          > ---------------------------------
                          > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                          > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                          >
                          > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                          > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
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