Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

State Militia flags?

Expand Messages
  • Eric
    On the Wargamingthewarof1812 group someone posed the question what the State Militia regiments used as flags in battle? I was curious as well. Did they carry
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 4, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      On the Wargamingthewarof1812 group someone posed the question what the
      State Militia regiments used as flags in battle? I was curious as
      well. Did they carry a regimental and/or the national flag into battle?

      Thanks,
      Eric
    • hh23890
      Eric, The Virginia Militia lost a regimental flag at the Battle of Hampton on June 26, 1813. This flag is currently on display at the Shrewsbury Light
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 4, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Eric,
        The Virginia Militia lost a regimental flag at the Battle of Hampton
        on June 26, 1813. This flag is currently on display at the Shrewsbury
        Light Infantry Museum in the UK. This flag has a white field with the
        federal Eagle in the middle with a banner below denoting the regiment
        of militia.
        I hope this is of some help.

        Howard Helmer
        2nd Virginia Regiment of Militia, 1813-1815
      • lalozon
        From: Howard Helmer ... The Virginia Militia lost a regimental flag at the Battle of Hampton ... This flag has a white field with the
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 5, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          From: "Howard Helmer" <hh23890@...>

          " ... The Virginia Militia lost a regimental flag at the Battle of Hampton
          ... This flag has a white field with the
          federal Eagle in the middle with a banner below denoting the regiment of
          militia.





          Possibly visit

          http://www.cottonbalers.lynchburg.net/OurFlags.htm

          This visual aid of a flag may help.

          I remember being told that some US Regt flags where gold, yellow or white
          silk.

          Yrs.,
          L2
        • Ed Seufert
          I ve uploaded to the Yahoo group a picture of two flags, supposedly captured by the 85th at Bladensburg from militia units and currently residing in the
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 5, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            I've uploaded to the Yahoo group a picture of two flags, supposedly captured by the 85th at Bladensburg from militia units and currently residing in the Shropshire LI Regimental Museum.

            Ed Seufert, Cpl
            1812 Royal Marines
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: lalozon
            To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 12:25 PM
            Subject: [WarOf1812] State Militia flags?



            From: "Howard Helmer" <hh23890@...>

            " ... The Virginia Militia lost a regimental flag at the Battle of Hampton
            ... This flag has a white field with the
            federal Eagle in the middle with a banner below denoting the regiment of
            militia.





            Possibly visit

            http://www.cottonbalers.lynchburg.net/OurFlags.htm

            This visual aid of a flag may help.

            I remember being told that some US Regt flags where gold, yellow or white
            silk.

            Yrs.,
            L2






            The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

            Unit Contact information for North America:
            ---------------------------------
            Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

            American Forces Unit Lisiting
            http://usforces1812.tripod.com



            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Yahoo! Groups Links

            a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

            b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Kevin Windsor
            Ed, anyway to make them bigger?? They re really tiny! K
            Message 5 of 13 , Apr 6, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Ed, anyway to make them bigger?? They're really tiny!

              K
              ----- Original Message -----

              > I've uploaded to the Yahoo group a picture of two flags, supposedly
              > captured by the 85th at Bladensburg from militia units and currently
              > residing in the Shropshire LI Regimental Museum.
              >
              > Ed Seufert, Cpl
              > 1812 Royal Marines
            • Brian Howard
              Kevin, In the photos that Ed posted, it appears the left image is of the flag used by the James City Light Infantry of Virginia. There is a book, I believe
              Message 6 of 13 , Apr 6, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Kevin,

                In the photos that Ed posted, it appears the left
                image is of the flag used by the James City Light
                Infantry of Virginia. There is a book, I believe
                titled "Flags from Around the World" that has a
                drawing of this same flag.

                We of the 2nd Virginia Regiment used that drawing as
                the model for our flag. I will upload an image of our
                flag so you can see it better. If Ed can enlarge the
                images he posted, that would be even better.

                Hope this helps.

                Brian Howard
                2nd Virginia Regiment, 1813-1815

                --- Kevin Windsor <kevin.windsor@...> wrote:
                > Ed, anyway to make them bigger?? They're really
                > tiny!
                >
                > K
                > ----- Original Message -----
                >
                > > I've uploaded to the Yahoo group a picture of two
                > flags, supposedly
                > > captured by the 85th at Bladensburg from militia
                > units and currently
                > > residing in the Shropshire LI Regimental Museum.
                > >
                > > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                > > 1812 Royal Marines
                >
                >
                >

                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                http://mail.yahoo.com
              • LCpl_RM@comcast.net
                Kevin/Brian, By clicking on full size you can at least read the description. I will try to get a bigger image and repost. The interesting thing about the two
                Message 7 of 13 , Apr 6, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Kevin/Brian,

                  By clicking on full size you can at least read the description. I will try to get a bigger image and repost.

                  The interesting thing about the two flags is that neither unit is listed as having been at Bladensburg! As there were several other excursions, both in Maryland and Virginia where the Army was landed and was in combat, quite possibly the colours where taken at one of those.

                  There is another picture of a militia flag (I believe 68th Regt) which was captured at Hampton. I'll try to find the story behind that one also.

                  Ed Seufert, Cpl
                  1812 Royal Marines

                  -------------- Original message --------------
                  Kevin,

                  In the photos that Ed posted, it appears the left
                  image is of the flag used by the James City Light
                  Infantry of Virginia. There is a book, I believe
                  titled "Flags from Around the World" that has a
                  drawing of this same flag.

                  We of the 2nd Virginia Regiment used that drawing as
                  the model for our flag. I will upload an image of our
                  flag so you can see it better. If Ed can enlarge the
                  images he posted, that would be even better.

                  Hope this helps.

                  Brian Howard
                  2nd Virginia Regiment, 1813-1815

                  --- Kevin Windsor <kevin.windsor@...> wrote:
                  > Ed, anyway to make them bigger?? They're really
                  > tiny!
                  >
                  > K
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  >
                  > > I've uploaded to the Yahoo group a picture of two
                  > flags, supposedly
                  > > captured by the 85th at Bladensburg from militia
                  > units and currently
                  > > residing in the Shropshire LI Regimental Museum.
                  > >
                  > > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                  > > 1812 Royal Marines
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  __________________________________________________
                  Do You Yahoo!?
                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  http://mail.yahoo.com


                  The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                  Unit Contact information for North America:
                  ---------------------------------
                  Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                  http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                  American Forces Unit Lisiting
                  http://usforces1812.tripod.com




                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                  To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Ed Seufert
                  Kevin/Brian, I tried uploading a bigger picture which was a .bmp but Yahoo would not accept it; only .jpg and .tif. I will try reformatting and send it again
                  Message 8 of 13 , Apr 6, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Kevin/Brian,

                    I tried uploading a bigger picture which was a .bmp but Yahoo would not accept it; only .jpg and .tif. I will try reformatting and send it again later.

                    Meanwhile I also found the notes which accompanied the flag picture. Seems that the white flag is indeed that of the 68th (James City Light Infantry) which was more likely captured at Hampton instead of Bladensburg. The colour was captured by the 1st Batt Royal Marines and presented to Sir Sydney Beckwith. An additional colour of the 1st Batt, 85th (Virginia Militia) was apparently also presented. Both were then in turn given to Admiral Warren. The 68th flag somehow made its way to Chelsea and eventually to the Shropshire Museum.

                    One of the things mentioned was the fact that Glieg (of the 85th) in his "Narratives" never mentions the fact that a colour was captured. Neither does the accompanying "Subaltern in America". But the "History of the Royal Marines Forces" does relate the above presentation!

                    Does anyone know the American regiments present at Hampton in June 1813?

                    Cheers,

                    Ed Seufert, Cpl
                    1812 Royal Marines
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Brian Howard
                    To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:11 AM
                    Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] State Militia flags?


                    Kevin,

                    In the photos that Ed posted, it appears the left
                    image is of the flag used by the James City Light
                    Infantry of Virginia. There is a book, I believe
                    titled "Flags from Around the World" that has a
                    drawing of this same flag.

                    We of the 2nd Virginia Regiment used that drawing as
                    the model for our flag. I will upload an image of our
                    flag so you can see it better. If Ed can enlarge the
                    images he posted, that would be even better.

                    Hope this helps.

                    Brian Howard
                    2nd Virginia Regiment, 1813-1815

                    --- Kevin Windsor <kevin.windsor@...> wrote:
                    > Ed, anyway to make them bigger?? They're really
                    > tiny!
                    >
                    > K
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    >
                    > > I've uploaded to the Yahoo group a picture of two
                    > flags, supposedly
                    > > captured by the 85th at Bladensburg from militia
                    > units and currently
                    > > residing in the Shropshire LI Regimental Museum.
                    > >
                    > > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                    > > 1812 Royal Marines
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    __________________________________________________
                    Do You Yahoo!?
                    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                    http://mail.yahoo.com


                    The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                    Unit Contact information for North America:
                    ---------------------------------
                    Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                    http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                    American Forces Unit Lisiting
                    http://usforces1812.tripod.com



                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    Yahoo! Groups Links

                    a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                    b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                    c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • PETER CATLEY
                    Ed, Gleig may be the link through which the Colour went to the Hospital at Chelsea since he served there for many years. Cheers P** ... Kevin/Brian, I tried
                    Message 9 of 13 , Apr 6, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Ed,

                      Gleig may be the link through which the Colour went to
                      the Hospital at Chelsea since he served there for many
                      years.

                      Cheers

                      P**

                      --- Ed Seufert <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:
                      ---------------------------------
                      Kevin/Brian,

                      I tried uploading a bigger picture which was a .bmp
                      but Yahoo would not accept it; only .jpg and .tif. I
                      will try reformatting and send it again later.

                      Meanwhile I also found the notes which accompanied the
                      flag picture. Seems that the white flag is indeed
                      that of the 68th (James City Light Infantry) which was
                      more likely captured at Hampton instead of
                      Bladensburg. The colour was captured by the 1st Batt
                      Royal Marines and presented to Sir Sydney Beckwith.
                      An additional colour of the 1st Batt, 85th (Virginia
                      Militia) was apparently also presented. Both were
                      then in turn given to Admiral Warren. The 68th flag
                      somehow made its way to Chelsea and eventually to the
                      Shropshire Museum.

                      One of the things mentioned was the fact that Glieg
                      (of the 85th) in his "Narratives" never mentions the
                      fact that a colour was captured. Neither does the
                      accompanying "Subaltern in America". But the "History
                      of the Royal Marines Forces" does relate the above
                      presentation!

                      Does anyone know the American regiments present at
                      Hampton in June 1813?

                      Cheers,

                      Ed Seufert, Cpl
                      1812 Royal Marines
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Brian Howard
                      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:11 AM
                      Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] State Militia flags?


                      Kevin,

                      In the photos that Ed posted, it appears the left
                      image is of the flag used by the James City Light
                      Infantry of Virginia. There is a book, I believe
                      titled "Flags from Around the World" that has a
                      drawing of this same flag.

                      We of the 2nd Virginia Regiment used that drawing as
                      the model for our flag. I will upload an image of
                      our
                      flag so you can see it better. If Ed can enlarge the
                      images he posted, that would be even better.

                      Hope this helps.

                      Brian Howard
                      2nd Virginia Regiment, 1813-1815

                      --- Kevin Windsor <kevin.windsor@...>
                      wrote:
                      > Ed, anyway to make them bigger?? They're really
                      > tiny!
                      >
                      > K
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      >
                      > > I've uploaded to the Yahoo group a picture of
                      two
                      > flags, supposedly
                      > > captured by the 85th at Bladensburg from militia
                      > units and currently
                      > > residing in the Shropshire LI Regimental Museum.
                      > >
                      > > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                      > > 1812 Royal Marines
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      __________________________________________________
                      Do You Yahoo!?
                      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                      protection around
                      http://mail.yahoo.com


                      The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
                      the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North
                      America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                      square miles...

                      Unit Contact information for North America:
                      ---------------------------------
                      Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                      http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                      American Forces Unit Lisiting
                      http://usforces1812.tripod.com



                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Yahoo! Groups Links

                      a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                      b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                      to:
                      WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                      c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                      Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                      The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the
                      fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America,
                      hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square
                      miles...

                      Unit Contact information for North America:
                      ---------------------------------
                      Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                      http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                      American Forces Unit Lisiting
                      http://usforces1812.tripod.com



                      ---------------------------------
                      Yahoo! Groups Links

                      To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                      Terms of Service.
                    • PETER CATLEY
                      Ed, More information, perhaps more than you need! This may well have been Rev. GR Gleig, Chaplin to the Royal Hospital at Chelsea from 1834 until he resigned
                      Message 10 of 13 , Apr 7, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Ed,

                        More information, perhaps more than you need!

                        This may well have been Rev. GR Gleig, Chaplin to the
                        Royal Hospital at Chelsea from 1834 until he resigned
                        in 1848. He died in 1888 aged 92 therefore born 1796.

                        Gleig had cerved in the Army before taking up the
                        ministry. He later was the Chaplin-General and wrote
                        extensively including Chelsea Pensioners, Chelsea
                        hospital and its Traditions and the Veterans of
                        Chelsea Hospital ~ If anyone has any of these in the
                        attic I 'd love to know:-)

                        Cheers

                        P**

                        --- Ed Seufert <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:
                        ---------------------------------
                        Kevin/Brian,

                        I tried uploading a bigger picture which was a .bmp
                        but Yahoo would not accept it; only .jpg and .tif. I
                        will try reformatting and send it again later.

                        Meanwhile I also found the notes which accompanied the
                        flag picture. Seems that the white flag is indeed
                        that of the 68th (James City Light Infantry) which was
                        more likely captured at Hampton instead of
                        Bladensburg. The colour was captured by the 1st Batt
                        Royal Marines and presented to Sir Sydney Beckwith.
                        An additional colour of the 1st Batt, 85th (Virginia
                        Militia) was apparently also presented. Both were
                        then in turn given to Admiral Warren. The 68th flag
                        somehow made its way to Chelsea and eventually to the
                        Shropshire Museum.

                        One of the things mentioned was the fact that Glieg
                        (of the 85th) in his "Narratives" never mentions the
                        fact that a colour was captured. Neither does the
                        accompanying "Subaltern in America". But the "History
                        of the Royal Marines Forces" does relate the above
                        presentation!

                        Does anyone know the American regiments present at
                        Hampton in June 1813?

                        Cheers,

                        Ed Seufert, Cpl
                        1812 Royal Marines
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Brian Howard
                        To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:11 AM
                        Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] State Militia flags?


                        Kevin,

                        In the photos that Ed posted, it appears the left
                        image is of the flag used by the James City Light
                        Infantry of Virginia. There is a book, I believe
                        titled "Flags from Around the World" that has a
                        drawing of this same flag.

                        We of the 2nd Virginia Regiment used that drawing as
                        the model for our flag. I will upload an image of
                        our
                        flag so you can see it better. If Ed can enlarge the
                        images he posted, that would be even better.

                        Hope this helps.

                        Brian Howard
                        2nd Virginia Regiment, 1813-1815

                        --- Kevin Windsor <kevin.windsor@...>
                        wrote:
                        > Ed, anyway to make them bigger?? They're really
                        > tiny!
                        >
                        > K
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        >
                        > > I've uploaded to the Yahoo group a picture of
                        two
                        > flags, supposedly
                        > > captured by the 85th at Bladensburg from militia
                        > units and currently
                        > > residing in the Shropshire LI Regimental Museum.
                        > >
                        > > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                        > > 1812 Royal Marines
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        __________________________________________________
                        Do You Yahoo!?
                        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                        protection around
                        http://mail.yahoo.com


                        The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
                        the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North
                        America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                        square miles...

                        Unit Contact information for North America:
                        ---------------------------------
                        Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                        http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                        American Forces Unit Lisiting
                        http://usforces1812.tripod.com



                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        Yahoo! Groups Links

                        a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                        b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                        to:
                        WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                        c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                        Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                        The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the
                        fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America,
                        hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square
                        miles...

                        Unit Contact information for North America:
                        ---------------------------------
                        Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                        http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                        American Forces Unit Lisiting
                        http://usforces1812.tripod.com



                        ---------------------------------
                        Yahoo! Groups Links

                        To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                        Terms of Service.
                      • Ed Seufert
                        Peter, Thanks for the details. According to the article that accompanied the pictures, the colours were identiied as being captured by the 85th sometime in the
                        Message 11 of 13 , Apr 7, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Peter,

                          Thanks for the details.

                          According to the article that accompanied the pictures, the colours were identiied as being captured by the 85th sometime in the 1830's. In gives no indication (and there seems to be none) when they actually arrived at the hospital.

                          Warren upon receipt of the colours supposedly said that they should properly go back to the Royal Marines. Since the battalions after their brief stay in the Chesapeake in 1813 wound up in Canada and then were subsequently broken up, I would feel that they probably got shipped home with some of the wounded. The staffs of the two battalions wound up back in the Chesapeake late in 1814. Were Marines allowed at Chelsea or did they wind up at Greenwich?

                          Ed Seufert, Cpl
                          1812 Royal Marines

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: PETER CATLEY
                          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:13 AM
                          Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] State Militia flags?


                          Ed,

                          More information, perhaps more than you need!

                          This may well have been Rev. GR Gleig, Chaplin to the
                          Royal Hospital at Chelsea from 1834 until he resigned
                          in 1848. He died in 1888 aged 92 therefore born 1796.

                          Gleig had cerved in the Army before taking up the
                          ministry. He later was the Chaplin-General and wrote
                          extensively including Chelsea Pensioners, Chelsea
                          hospital and its Traditions and the Veterans of
                          Chelsea Hospital ~ If anyone has any of these in the
                          attic I 'd love to know:-)

                          Cheers

                          P**

                          --- Ed Seufert <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:
                          ---------------------------------
                          Kevin/Brian,

                          I tried uploading a bigger picture which was a .bmp
                          but Yahoo would not accept it; only .jpg and .tif. I
                          will try reformatting and send it again later.

                          Meanwhile I also found the notes which accompanied the
                          flag picture. Seems that the white flag is indeed
                          that of the 68th (James City Light Infantry) which was
                          more likely captured at Hampton instead of
                          Bladensburg. The colour was captured by the 1st Batt
                          Royal Marines and presented to Sir Sydney Beckwith.
                          An additional colour of the 1st Batt, 85th (Virginia
                          Militia) was apparently also presented. Both were
                          then in turn given to Admiral Warren. The 68th flag
                          somehow made its way to Chelsea and eventually to the
                          Shropshire Museum.

                          One of the things mentioned was the fact that Glieg
                          (of the 85th) in his "Narratives" never mentions the
                          fact that a colour was captured. Neither does the
                          accompanying "Subaltern in America". But the "History
                          of the Royal Marines Forces" does relate the above
                          presentation!

                          Does anyone know the American regiments present at
                          Hampton in June 1813?

                          Cheers,

                          Ed Seufert, Cpl
                          1812 Royal Marines
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Brian Howard
                          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:11 AM
                          Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] State Militia flags?


                          Kevin,

                          In the photos that Ed posted, it appears the left
                          image is of the flag used by the James City Light
                          Infantry of Virginia. There is a book, I believe
                          titled "Flags from Around the World" that has a
                          drawing of this same flag.

                          We of the 2nd Virginia Regiment used that drawing as
                          the model for our flag. I will upload an image of
                          our
                          flag so you can see it better. If Ed can enlarge the
                          images he posted, that would be even better.

                          Hope this helps.

                          Brian Howard
                          2nd Virginia Regiment, 1813-1815

                          --- Kevin Windsor <kevin.windsor@...>
                          wrote:
                          > Ed, anyway to make them bigger?? They're really
                          > tiny!
                          >
                          > K
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          >
                          > > I've uploaded to the Yahoo group a picture of
                          two
                          > flags, supposedly
                          > > captured by the 85th at Bladensburg from militia
                          > units and currently
                          > > residing in the Shropshire LI Regimental Museum.
                          > >
                          > > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                          > > 1812 Royal Marines
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          __________________________________________________
                          Do You Yahoo!?
                          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                          protection around
                          http://mail.yahoo.com


                          The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
                          the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North
                          America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                          square miles...

                          Unit Contact information for North America:
                          ---------------------------------
                          Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                          http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                          American Forces Unit Lisiting
                          http://usforces1812.tripod.com



                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Yahoo! Groups Links

                          a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                          b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                          to:
                          WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                          c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                          Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                          The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the
                          fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America,
                          hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square
                          miles...

                          Unit Contact information for North America:
                          ---------------------------------
                          Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                          http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                          American Forces Unit Lisiting
                          http://usforces1812.tripod.com



                          ---------------------------------
                          Yahoo! Groups Links

                          To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                          Terms of Service.


                          The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                          Unit Contact information for North America:
                          ---------------------------------
                          Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                          http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                          American Forces Unit Lisiting
                          http://usforces1812.tripod.com



                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Yahoo! Groups Links

                          a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                          b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                          c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • PETER CATLEY
                          Ed, I m afraid I did not know where they retired the Royal Marines to, certainly I ve seen no reference in the books on Chelsea but found this reference under
                          Message 12 of 13 , Apr 8, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Ed,

                            I'm afraid I did not know where they retired the Royal
                            Marines to, certainly I've seen no reference in the
                            books on Chelsea but found this reference under our
                            Vetrens Agency web site;

                            The Royal Greenwich Hospital
                            The Royal Greenwich Hospital was founded by Queen
                            Mary, who in 1694 gave the royal estate at Greenwich
                            for a house for pensioned seamen and marines. The
                            foundation stone was laid in 1696 and the first
                            pensioners were admitted in 1705. In 1716 the
                            forfeited estates of Lord Derwentwater were added to
                            the hospital's endowments.

                            In addition to the in-pensioners, the hospital also
                            maintained out-pensioners and provided pensions and
                            allowances for widows and orphans of seamen and
                            marines. A school for the sons of seamen was attached
                            to the hospital and in 1939 it absorbed the Royal
                            Naval Asylum for the children of seamen.

                            It ceased to house in-pensioners in 1869 and in 1873
                            the building became the home of the Royal Naval
                            College; but the hospital continued to administer the
                            school, which moved to Holbrook in 1933, and continued
                            to provide out-pensions and allowances of various
                            kinds

                            During our period many "trophies" were sent to Chelsea
                            because there was no alternative repository for them.

                            It is why Chelsea has six French Eagles depite being
                            right next door to the National Army Museum.

                            Cheers now.

                            P**

                            --- Ed Seufert <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:

                            ---------------------------------
                            Peter,

                            Thanks for the details.

                            According to the article that accompanied the
                            pictures, the colours were identiied as being captured
                            by the 85th sometime in the 1830's. In gives no
                            indication (and there seems to be none) when they
                            actually arrived at the hospital.

                            Warren upon receipt of the colours supposedly said
                            that they should properly go back to the Royal
                            Marines. Since the battalions after their brief stay
                            in the Chesapeake in 1813 wound up in Canada and then
                            were subsequently broken up, I would feel that they
                            probably got shipped home with some of the wounded.
                            The staffs of the two battalions wound up back in the
                            Chesapeake late in 1814. Were Marines allowed at
                            Chelsea or did they wind up at Greenwich?

                            Ed Seufert, Cpl
                            1812 Royal Marines

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: PETER CATLEY
                            To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:13 AM
                            Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] State Militia flags?


                            Ed,

                            More information, perhaps more than you need!

                            This may well have been Rev. GR Gleig, Chaplin to
                            the
                            Royal Hospital at Chelsea from 1834 until he
                            resigned
                            in 1848. He died in 1888 aged 92 therefore born
                            1796.

                            Gleig had cerved in the Army before taking up the
                            ministry. He later was the Chaplin-General and wrote
                            extensively including Chelsea Pensioners, Chelsea
                            hospital and its Traditions and the Veterans of
                            Chelsea Hospital ~ If anyone has any of these in the
                            attic I 'd love to know:-)

                            Cheers

                            P**

                            --- Ed Seufert <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:
                            ---------------------------------
                            Kevin/Brian,

                            I tried uploading a bigger picture which was a .bmp
                            but Yahoo would not accept it; only .jpg and .tif.
                            I
                            will try reformatting and send it again later.

                            Meanwhile I also found the notes which accompanied
                            the
                            flag picture. Seems that the white flag is indeed
                            that of the 68th (James City Light Infantry) which
                            was
                            more likely captured at Hampton instead of
                            Bladensburg. The colour was captured by the 1st
                            Batt
                            Royal Marines and presented to Sir Sydney Beckwith.
                            An additional colour of the 1st Batt, 85th (Virginia
                            Militia) was apparently also presented. Both were
                            then in turn given to Admiral Warren. The 68th flag
                            somehow made its way to Chelsea and eventually to
                            the
                            Shropshire Museum.

                            One of the things mentioned was the fact that Glieg
                            (of the 85th) in his "Narratives" never mentions the
                            fact that a colour was captured. Neither does the
                            accompanying "Subaltern in America". But the
                            "History
                            of the Royal Marines Forces" does relate the above
                            presentation!

                            Does anyone know the American regiments present at
                            Hampton in June 1813?

                            Cheers,

                            Ed Seufert, Cpl
                            1812 Royal Marines
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Brian Howard
                            To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:11 AM
                            Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] State Militia flags?


                            Kevin,

                            In the photos that Ed posted, it appears the left
                            image is of the flag used by the James City Light
                            Infantry of Virginia. There is a book, I believe
                            titled "Flags from Around the World" that has a
                            drawing of this same flag.

                            We of the 2nd Virginia Regiment used that drawing
                            as
                            the model for our flag. I will upload an image of
                            our
                            flag so you can see it better. If Ed can enlarge
                            the
                            images he posted, that would be even better.

                            Hope this helps.

                            Brian Howard
                            2nd Virginia Regiment, 1813-1815

                            --- Kevin Windsor <kevin.windsor@...>
                            wrote:
                            > Ed, anyway to make them bigger?? They're really
                            > tiny!
                            >
                            > K
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            >
                            > > I've uploaded to the Yahoo group a picture of
                            two
                            > flags, supposedly
                            > > captured by the 85th at Bladensburg from
                            militia
                            > units and currently
                            > > residing in the Shropshire LI Regimental
                            Museum.
                            > >
                            > > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                            > > 1812 Royal Marines
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            __________________________________________________
                            Do You Yahoo!?
                            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                            protection around
                            http://mail.yahoo.com


                            The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
                            the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North
                            America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
                            of
                            square miles...

                            Unit Contact information for North America:
                            ---------------------------------
                            Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                            http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                            American Forces Unit Lisiting
                            http://usforces1812.tripod.com




                            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Yahoo! Groups Links

                            a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                            b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
                            email
                            to:
                            WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                            c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                            Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been
                            removed]



                            The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
                            the
                            fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America,
                            hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square
                            miles...

                            Unit Contact information for North America:
                            ---------------------------------
                            Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                            http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                            American Forces Unit Lisiting
                            http://usforces1812.tripod.com



                            ---------------------------------
                            Yahoo! Groups Links

                            To visit your group on the web, go to:
                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                            Yahoo!
                            Terms of Service.


                            The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
                            the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North
                            America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                            square miles...

                            Unit Contact information for North America:
                            ---------------------------------
                            Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                            http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                            American Forces Unit Lisiting
                            http://usforces1812.tripod.com



                            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Yahoo! Groups Links

                            a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                            b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                            to:
                            WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                            c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                            Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                            The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the
                            fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America,
                            hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square
                            miles...

                            Unit Contact information for North America:
                            ---------------------------------
                            Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                            http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                            American Forces Unit Lisiting
                            http://usforces1812.tripod.com



                            ---------------------------------
                            Yahoo! Groups Links

                            To visit your group on the web, go to:
                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                            Terms of Service.
                          • Brian Howard
                            Ed, I am working on the units that were at Hampton as I type this. They were under the command of a Major Stapleton Crutchfield of York county, Virginia. Need
                            Message 13 of 13 , Apr 8, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Ed,
                              I am working on the units that were at Hampton as I
                              type this. They were under the command of a Major
                              Stapleton Crutchfield of York county, Virginia. Need
                              to piece the units together in one list but it appears
                              Crutchfield's command was known as the 1st Virginia
                              Regiment and was considered part of the Norfolk
                              command under General Robert B. Taylor. Taylor's
                              headquarters just happened to be at Fort Norfolk.

                              More to follow.

                              Brian Howard
                              2nd Virginia Regt.

                              --- Ed Seufert <LCpl_RM@...> wrote:
                              > Kevin/Brian,
                              >
                              > I tried uploading a bigger picture which was a .bmp
                              > but Yahoo would not accept it; only .jpg and .tif.
                              > I will try reformatting and send it again later.
                              >
                              > Meanwhile I also found the notes which accompanied
                              > the flag picture. Seems that the white flag is
                              > indeed that of the 68th (James City Light Infantry)
                              > which was more likely captured at Hampton instead of
                              > Bladensburg. The colour was captured by the 1st
                              > Batt Royal Marines and presented to Sir Sydney
                              > Beckwith. An additional colour of the 1st Batt,
                              > 85th (Virginia Militia) was apparently also
                              > presented. Both were then in turn given to Admiral
                              > Warren. The 68th flag somehow made its way to
                              > Chelsea and eventually to the Shropshire Museum.
                              >
                              > One of the things mentioned was the fact that Glieg
                              > (of the 85th) in his "Narratives" never mentions the
                              > fact that a colour was captured. Neither does the
                              > accompanying "Subaltern in America". But the
                              > "History of the Royal Marines Forces" does relate
                              > the above presentation!
                              >
                              > Does anyone know the American regiments present at
                              > Hampton in June 1813?
                              >
                              > Cheers,
                              >
                              > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                              > 1812 Royal Marines
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: Brian Howard
                              > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:11 AM
                              > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] State Militia flags?
                              >
                              >
                              > Kevin,
                              >
                              > In the photos that Ed posted, it appears the left
                              > image is of the flag used by the James City Light
                              > Infantry of Virginia. There is a book, I believe
                              > titled "Flags from Around the World" that has a
                              > drawing of this same flag.
                              >
                              > We of the 2nd Virginia Regiment used that drawing
                              > as
                              > the model for our flag. I will upload an image of
                              > our
                              > flag so you can see it better. If Ed can enlarge
                              > the
                              > images he posted, that would be even better.
                              >
                              > Hope this helps.
                              >
                              > Brian Howard
                              > 2nd Virginia Regiment, 1813-1815
                              >
                              > --- Kevin Windsor <kevin.windsor@...>
                              > wrote:
                              > > Ed, anyway to make them bigger?? They're really
                              > > tiny!
                              > >
                              > > K
                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > >
                              > > > I've uploaded to the Yahoo group a picture of
                              > two
                              > > flags, supposedly
                              > > > captured by the 85th at Bladensburg from
                              > militia
                              > > units and currently
                              > > > residing in the Shropshire LI Regimental
                              > Museum.
                              > > >
                              > > > Ed Seufert, Cpl
                              > > > 1812 Royal Marines
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > __________________________________________________
                              > Do You Yahoo!?
                              > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                              > protection around
                              > http://mail.yahoo.com
                              >
                              >
                              > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
                              > the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North
                              > America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
                              > of square miles...
                              >
                              > Unit Contact information for North America:
                              > ---------------------------------
                              > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                              > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                              >
                              > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                              > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
                              >
                              > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
                              > email to:
                              > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              >
                              > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                              > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > removed]
                              >
                              >

                              __________________________________________________
                              Do You Yahoo!?
                              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                              http://mail.yahoo.com
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.