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Re: Pte Pierpont (was Black Heritage Month)

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  • Peter Monahan
    Mr Hobbs, Mr Catley I have a copy of A Stolen Life infront of me. In it is a photograph of Captain Dick s will which begins: This is my last will and
    Message 1 of 3 , Feb 2, 2005
      Mr Hobbs, Mr Catley

      I have a copy of "A Stolen Life" infront of me. In it is a photograph of "Captain Dick"'s will which begins: "This is my last will and testament in the name of God Amen".
      Are these the words of a Christian, merely a linguistic convention by Pierpont or his scribe or perhaps an echo of the standard Arabic exhortations to and acknowledgements of Allah which are so common in Muslim conversation and correspondence?
      The book goes on to say that James Watson, one of the founders of the town of Fergus who hired and was friendly to blacks, was in dispute with St Andrew's Presbyterian Church over burying an unnamed person in their cemetery. They refused permission. Was it Pierpont and was the refusal based on religion or race? Race would certainly be seen as sufficient cause at the time, but trying to bury a Muslim in a Presbyterian cemetery seems over-ecumenical by even today's standards.

      From my very limited reading and a little knoweledge of the old British Indian empire, I believe that the term "Musselman" was principally used to distinguish Muslim Indians from their Hindu compatriots. I would guess that "over here" Pierpont's race would trump, so to speak, any religion he might have, in the minds of his white neighbours. Just a thought.

      Fasccinating thread,though.

      Yours etc
      Peter Monahan
      ============================================================
      From: ray hobbs <ray.hobbs@...>
      Date: 2005/02/01 Tue PM 01:14:40 EST
      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] African Heritage Month (Black Heritage Month)


      Right - and there were a few others, dogans, dissenters (the accursed
      Baptists), and a very few Anglicans.
      I believe in the period, Pte Pierpoint would have been called a "Turk".
      Somewhere in the back of my mind I have recollection of such a one
      being a member of the GLI. Does anyone have further information on this?
      As for Pensioner Catley's point - if he was, he'd have known! :-)
      Ray H
      41st Regt.

      On Tuesday, February 1, 2005, at 12:00 PM, lalozon wrote:

      >
      > From: "ray hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
      >
      >
      > " .... Pierpoint is never recorded as having converted to
      > Christianity..."
      >
      >
      >
      > So Mr. Hobbs,
      >
      >
      > ... there was at least one 1812 soldier who was not a Methodist! :^)
      >
      >
      >
      > YHS,
      > L2
      >
      >
      > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
      > of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
      > THOUSANDS of square miles...
      >
      > Unit Contact information for North America:
      > ---------------------------------
      > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
      > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
      >
      > American Forces Unit Lisiting
      > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >



      The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

      Unit Contact information for North America:
      ---------------------------------
      Crown Forces Unit Listing:
      http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

      American Forces Unit Lisiting
      http://usforces1812.tripod.com
      Yahoo! Groups Links







      ============================================================
    • PETER CATLEY
      Peter, you could well be right. Cheers P** ... Mr Hobbs, Mr Catley I have a copy of A Stolen Life infront of me. In it is a photograph of Captain Dick s
      Message 2 of 3 , Feb 2, 2005
        Peter,

        you could well be right.

        Cheers

        P**

        --- Peter Monahan <petemonahan@...> wrote:

        ---------------------------------
        Mr Hobbs, Mr Catley

        I have a copy of "A Stolen Life" infront of me. In it
        is a photograph of "Captain Dick"'s will which begins:
        "This is my last will and testament in the name of God
        Amen".
        Are these the words of a Christian, merely a
        linguistic convention by Pierpont or his scribe or
        perhaps an echo of the standard Arabic exhortations to
        and acknowledgements of Allah which are so common in
        Muslim conversation and correspondence?
        The book goes on to say that James Watson, one of
        the founders of the town of Fergus who hired and was
        friendly to blacks, was in dispute with St Andrew's
        Presbyterian Church over burying an unnamed person in
        their cemetery. They refused permission. Was it
        Pierpont and was the refusal based on religion or
        race? Race would certainly be seen as sufficient
        cause at the time, but trying to bury a Muslim in a
        Presbyterian cemetery seems over-ecumenical by even
        today's standards.

        From my very limited reading and a little knoweledge
        of the old British Indian empire, I believe that the
        term "Musselman" was principally used to distinguish
        Muslim Indians from their Hindu compatriots. I would
        guess that "over here" Pierpont's race would trump, so
        to speak, any religion he might have, in the minds of
        his white neighbours. Just a thought.

        Fasccinating thread,though.

        Yours etc
        Peter Monahan
        ============================================================
        From: ray hobbs <ray.hobbs@...>
        Date: 2005/02/01 Tue PM 01:14:40 EST
        To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] African Heritage Month (Black
        Heritage Month)


        Right - and there were a few others, dogans,
        dissenters (the accursed
        Baptists), and a very few Anglicans.
        I believe in the period, Pte Pierpoint would have been
        called a "Turk".
        Somewhere in the back of my mind I have recollection
        of such a one
        being a member of the GLI. Does anyone have further
        information on this?
        As for Pensioner Catley's point - if he was, he'd have
        known! :-)
        Ray H
        41st Regt.

        On Tuesday, February 1, 2005, at 12:00 PM, lalozon
        wrote:

        >
        > From: "ray hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
        >
        >
        > " .... Pierpoint is never recorded as having
        converted to
        > Christianity..."
        >
        >
        >
        > So Mr. Hobbs,
        >
        >
        > ... there was at least one 1812 soldier who was
        not a Methodist! :^)
        >
        >
        >
        > YHS,
        > L2
        >
        >
        > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
        the fate of hundreds
        > of square miles: in North America, hundreds
        determined the fate of
        > THOUSANDS of square miles...
        >
        > Unit Contact information for North America:
        > ---------------------------------
        > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
        > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
        >
        > American Forces Unit Lisiting
        > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >



        The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the
        fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America,
        hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square
        miles...

        Unit Contact information for North America:
        ---------------------------------
        Crown Forces Unit Listing:
        http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

        American Forces Unit Lisiting
        http://usforces1812.tripod.com
        Yahoo! Groups Links







        ============================================================




        The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the
        fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America,
        hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square
        miles...

        Unit Contact information for North America:
        ---------------------------------
        Crown Forces Unit Listing:
        http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

        American Forces Unit Lisiting
        http://usforces1812.tripod.com



        ---------------------------------
        Yahoo! Groups Links

        To visit your group on the web, go to:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
        Terms of Service.
      • Robert White
        Are you guessing because of the start of the will or was the start merely the way that they all started back then. For instance today, the usual start is I,
        Message 3 of 3 , Feb 2, 2005
          Are you guessing because of the start of the will or was the start merely the way that they all started back then. For instance today, the usual start is "I, Johnny Humperdink, being of sound mind, do hereby make this my last will and testament revoking all wills and codicils heretofore made by me..." Using the same type of analysis with nothing else would lead a researcher to conclude that when Johnny made this will he obviously had made another one earlier otherwise why would he be revoking it. In the usual course of events, there was no prior will and certainly no codicil as they haven't been used for decades particularly after the advent of computers where it is much easier to change the actual will and remove all questions. Bob White Pte, US Marine Guard on Constitution aka in my hobby of trying to make a living - Attorney etc. etc.

          PETER CATLEY <peter.catley@...> wrote:Peter,

          you could well be right.

          Cheers

          P**

          --- Peter Monahan <petemonahan@...> wrote:

          ---------------------------------
          Mr Hobbs, Mr Catley

          I have a copy of "A Stolen Life" infront of me. In it
          is a photograph of "Captain Dick"'s will which begins:
          "This is my last will and testament in the name of God
          Amen".
          Are these the words of a Christian, merely a
          linguistic convention by Pierpont or his scribe or
          perhaps an echo of the standard Arabic exhortations to
          and acknowledgements of Allah which are so common in
          Muslim conversation and correspondence?
          The book goes on to say that James Watson, one of
          the founders of the town of Fergus who hired and was
          friendly to blacks, was in dispute with St Andrew's
          Presbyterian Church over burying an unnamed person in
          their cemetery. They refused permission. Was it
          Pierpont and was the refusal based on religion or
          race? Race would certainly be seen as sufficient
          cause at the time, but trying to bury a Muslim in a
          Presbyterian cemetery seems over-ecumenical by even
          today's standards.

          From my very limited reading and a little knoweledge
          of the old British Indian empire, I believe that the
          term "Musselman" was principally used to distinguish
          Muslim Indians from their Hindu compatriots. I would
          guess that "over here" Pierpont's race would trump, so
          to speak, any religion he might have, in the minds of
          his white neighbours. Just a thought.

          Fasccinating thread,though.

          Yours etc
          Peter Monahan
          ============================================================
          From: ray hobbs <ray.hobbs@...>
          Date: 2005/02/01 Tue PM 01:14:40 EST
          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] African Heritage Month (Black
          Heritage Month)


          Right - and there were a few others, dogans,
          dissenters (the accursed
          Baptists), and a very few Anglicans.
          I believe in the period, Pte Pierpoint would have been
          called a "Turk".
          Somewhere in the back of my mind I have recollection
          of such a one
          being a member of the GLI. Does anyone have further
          information on this?
          As for Pensioner Catley's point - if he was, he'd have
          known! :-)
          Ray H
          41st Regt.

          On Tuesday, February 1, 2005, at 12:00 PM, lalozon
          wrote:

          >
          > From: "ray hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
          >
          >
          > " .... Pierpoint is never recorded as having
          converted to
          > Christianity..."
          >
          >
          >
          > So Mr. Hobbs,
          >
          >
          > ... there was at least one 1812 soldier who was
          not a Methodist! :^)
          >
          >
          >
          > YHS,
          > L2
          >
          >
          > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
          the fate of hundreds
          > of square miles: in North America, hundreds
          determined the fate of
          > THOUSANDS of square miles...
          >
          > Unit Contact information for North America:
          > ---------------------------------
          > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          >
          > American Forces Unit Lisiting
          > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >



          The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the
          fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America,
          hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square
          miles...

          Unit Contact information for North America:
          ---------------------------------
          Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

          American Forces Unit Lisiting
          http://usforces1812.tripod.com
          Yahoo! Groups Links







          ============================================================




          The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the
          fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America,
          hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square
          miles...

          Unit Contact information for North America:
          ---------------------------------
          Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

          American Forces Unit Lisiting
          http://usforces1812.tripod.com



          ---------------------------------
          Yahoo! Groups Links

          To visit your group on the web, go to:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
          Terms of Service.



          The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

          Unit Contact information for North America:
          ---------------------------------
          Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

          American Forces Unit Lisiting
          http://usforces1812.tripod.com



          ---------------------------------
          Yahoo! Groups Links

          To visit your group on the web, go to:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




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