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Re: [WarOf1812] Barney's Guns at Bladensburg

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  • suthren@magma.ca
    Would think field carriages as well. Vic Suthren ... From: Michael Bosworth To: Sent: Sunday,
    Message 1 of 2 , Jan 30, 2005
      Would think field carriages as well.
      Vic Suthren
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Michael Bosworth" <michael.bosworth@...>
      To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 8:57 AM
      Subject: RE: [WarOf1812] Barney's Guns at Bladensburg


      >
      > Dave and all,
      >
      > I concur with Colin regarding that the two 18s and 3 12s of Commodore
      > Barney's naval force at Bladensburg were almost certainly on field
      > carriages.
      >
      > One of the best sources is "The Naval War of 1812: A Documentary
      > History"...currently three volumes (a fourth and last reputedly in
      > preparation). [shameless plug; Ship's Company has a brand-new and boxed
      set
      > for sale at 10% discount over ABE.com used prices....$150 the 3 vol. set,
      > contact Mike Bosworth....proceeds to the SC boat fund]. These
      'Documentary
      > Histories' are transcriptions of primary documents, indexed and legible.
      > Invaluable.
      >
      > NW1812:DocHist Vol 3, page 188....
      >
      > Secretary of the Navy Jones to Captain Joshua Barney, Flotilla Service
      > Navy Department
      > Augt 20, 1814 11 1/2 AM
      > Sir,
      >
      > .....Tomorrow Morning the detachment of Marines with three 12s, and two
      long
      > light 18' pounders with every thing complete will march to join you and
      will
      > be placed under your command. When combined your men will man the Guns
      and
      > the Marines under the command of Captain Miller will act an Infantry under
      > your command....
      > \W Jones
      > 1/2 past 2. PM
      >
      > PS Any modification of this order that yourself and General Winder shall
      > agree upon I authorize. WJ"
      >
      > This communication, and the speed of movement and the fact that a Marine
      det
      > (without sailors to do heavy rigging) move the guns, strongly indicate
      field
      > carriages vice naval carriages. I've moved real 18-pounders short
      distances
      > and 6-pounders longer distances....if they were on naval carriages, IMHO
      > there would have been serious discussion of the movement, delays, etc.
      But
      > I haven't searched deeply for firmer primary documentation.
      >
      > Based on this strong indication, Ship's Company has procured cannon on
      both
      > field and naval carriages for various portrayals. Obviously limited, like
      > all groups, with the availability of funding, Ship's Company currently
      has:
      >
      > 6 pounder on field carriage (Gribeauval pattern). Future desire to have
      > naval carriage option.
      >
      > 2 pounder on naval carriage (mostly used on shipboard, dispatch schooner
      > RESOLUTION nowadays, but also as encampment display or more easily
      portable
      > small cannon). Future desire to have field carriage option.
      >
      > 3 pounder brass howitzer on swivel (mostly used on shipboard or in boats),
      a
      > shipboard pivot is in construction for shipboard/tops/camp display.
      Future
      > desire is to a field carriage option.
      >
      > Sometimes we manage to borrow a half-pounder swivel for the boats as well.
      > Our current boats are a 16 foot light cutter and a 14 foot jollyboat (each
      4
      > oars and riggable for sail). RESOLUTION is a 50 foot wooden schooner
      > (currently in overhaul in Reedville VA, hence our SC fundraising and
      selling
      > the DocHist books).
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Mike
      >
      > Michael Bosworth
      > Ship's Company www.shipscompany.org
      > And
      > Maryland Light Dragoons www.MdLD.org
      > Michael.bosworth@...
      > Cell 703-864-4174
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Dave Hoyt
      > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 7:43 PM
      > Subject: [WarOf1812] Commodore Barney question
      >
      >
      >
      > Long-time lurker questions.
      >
      > I'm hoping the membership might be able to help out with a question
      > or two. I've become particularly interested in Commodore Barney's
      > unit of naval artilleryists who served at the Battle of Bladensburg
      > in 1814. Uniforms are no problem...it's the type of gun served that
      > vexes me. Before the battle, Barney's squadron of gunboats, which
      > had been harassing the Royal Navy in the Chesapeake area, was burned
      > to avoid capture in the Patuxent (sp?) River. The sailors later
      > showed up at Bladensburg manning a number of heavy guns (perhpas 18
      > lbers?). My question is...what type of guns were these? Regular land-
      > service artillery carriages and barrels, or naval guns on ship-
      > service mounts? Perhaps not as obvious as one might think. For
      > example, at New Orleans, the British hauled naval guns overland (or
      > over swamp, more accurately) to be served, I believe, by Royal
      > Artillerists (and not sailors) against Jackson's positions outside
      > the city. If Barney was using regular artillery guns, where did he
      > get them? If naval carriages and guns, how did he transport them?
      >
      >
      > cheers,
      >
      > Dave
      >
      > ===============
      > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:32:11 -0500
      > From: "Ed Seufert" <LCpl_RM@...>
      > Subject: Re: Commodore Barney question
      >
      > By most accounts, Barney arrived on the field at Bladensburg with 2
      > 18pounders and 3 12pounders on naval carriages which he brought from the
      > Washington Navy Yard. Upon destroying his flotilla, he and his sailors
      > joined Winders army at Old Fields and then fell back on the city when the
      > army retreated. His sailors slept in the marine barracks the night of the
      > 23rd. During the night he received orders to stand guard over the Eastern
      > Branch Bridge which he felt was a waste and received permission to join
      the
      > the defense at Bladnesburg. His 400 sailors manhandled their guns to the
      > battlefield arriving after the British attack had already started.
      >
      > Lt Williams, RA, notes in his return of Ordnance captured, that "2
      > 18pounders, 5 12pounders, 3 6pounders, with field carriages" were captured
      > at Bladensburg but does not define which of the guns were on field
      > carriages. Only later in his report does he define "19 12pounders on
      naval
      > carriages". All told, the British captured 206 cannons, 500 barrels,
      > 100,000 rounds of ball-cartridge and 40 barrels of fine grained powder
      > between 19 and 25 August 1814.
      >
      > Ed Seufert, Cpl
      > 1812 Royal Marines
      >
      >
      > ===================
      > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 05:44:33 -0000
      > From: "Colin" <usmarine1814@...>
      > Subject: Re: Commodore Barney question
      >
      >
      >
      > As far as the 12 pounders that were "with Barney" those three
      > guns were actually that had been in the service of the Marine
      > Corps. They were mounted on feild carriages. They had travelled to
      > St. Leonards Creek a month earlier. The Marines had all the gear,
      > carriages, carts, tools they needed and at St. Leonard's,
      > Bladensburg and in Florida/Georgia*** proved to be very well trained
      > and very effective.
      >
      >
      > The 18s, I would think, had to be on land carriages. We have
      > tugged around our comparatively tiny 6 pounder on Naval Carriage
      > over the niceely paved Charlestown Navy Yard and I can say from
      > experience that they are like todlers. THEY DON'T TRAVEL WELL!!
      >
      > Like most history there are those stories we all know and
      > that we believe we have actually seen documentation for, but when we
      > reflect upon it you are really not sure and it may be one of those
      > myths. This is one of those- In 1813, because of the growing
      > British threat in the Chesapeake, the Sec Nav ordered the 18s and
      > 12s put onto land carriages and that the Marines train on them in
      > the Navy Yard. Marine Corps Band included.
      >
      > ***In 1811 the Marines also had 3 6 pounders mounted on land
      > carriages and sent along with 53 men to ST. Marys, Georgia were they
      > were put into the field to "protect American territory", but were
      > actually there to assist in the the largely forgotten "side show"
      > of the War of 1812; the Patriots War attacking Spanish Territory.
      > (But who was really paying attention anyway) When the Marines were
      > ordered home in 1813, from Georgia, they left their guns their for
      > the use of the Army.
      > Colin Murphy
      > USS Constitution
      > Marines
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
      square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
      square miles...
      >
      > Unit Contact information for North America:
      > ---------------------------------
      > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
      > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
      >
      > American Forces Unit Lisiting
      > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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