Re: [WarOf1812] Barney's Guns at Bladensburg
- Would think field carriages as well.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Bosworth" <michael.bosworth@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 8:57 AM
Subject: RE: [WarOf1812] Barney's Guns at Bladensburg
> Dave and all,
> I concur with Colin regarding that the two 18s and 3 12s of Commodore
> Barney's naval force at Bladensburg were almost certainly on field
> One of the best sources is "The Naval War of 1812: A Documentary
> History"...currently three volumes (a fourth and last reputedly in
> preparation). [shameless plug; Ship's Company has a brand-new and boxed
> for sale at 10% discount over ABE.com used prices....$150 the 3 vol. set,
> contact Mike Bosworth....proceeds to the SC boat fund]. These
> Histories' are transcriptions of primary documents, indexed and legible.
> NW1812:DocHist Vol 3, page 188....
> Secretary of the Navy Jones to Captain Joshua Barney, Flotilla Service
> Navy Department
> Augt 20, 1814 11 1/2 AM
> .....Tomorrow Morning the detachment of Marines with three 12s, and two
> light 18' pounders with every thing complete will march to join you and
> be placed under your command. When combined your men will man the Guns
> the Marines under the command of Captain Miller will act an Infantry under
> your command....
> \W Jones
> 1/2 past 2. PM
> PS Any modification of this order that yourself and General Winder shall
> agree upon I authorize. WJ"
> This communication, and the speed of movement and the fact that a Marine
> (without sailors to do heavy rigging) move the guns, strongly indicate
> carriages vice naval carriages. I've moved real 18-pounders short
> and 6-pounders longer distances....if they were on naval carriages, IMHO
> there would have been serious discussion of the movement, delays, etc.
> I haven't searched deeply for firmer primary documentation.
> Based on this strong indication, Ship's Company has procured cannon on
> field and naval carriages for various portrayals. Obviously limited, like
> all groups, with the availability of funding, Ship's Company currently
> 6 pounder on field carriage (Gribeauval pattern). Future desire to have
> naval carriage option.
> 2 pounder on naval carriage (mostly used on shipboard, dispatch schooner
> RESOLUTION nowadays, but also as encampment display or more easily
> small cannon). Future desire to have field carriage option.
> 3 pounder brass howitzer on swivel (mostly used on shipboard or in boats),
> shipboard pivot is in construction for shipboard/tops/camp display.
> desire is to a field carriage option.
> Sometimes we manage to borrow a half-pounder swivel for the boats as well.
> Our current boats are a 16 foot light cutter and a 14 foot jollyboat (each
> oars and riggable for sail). RESOLUTION is a 50 foot wooden schooner
> (currently in overhaul in Reedville VA, hence our SC fundraising and
> the DocHist books).
> Michael Bosworth
> Ship's Company www.shipscompany.org
> Maryland Light Dragoons www.MdLD.org
> Cell 703-864-4174
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dave Hoyt
> To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 7:43 PM
> Subject: [WarOf1812] Commodore Barney question
> Long-time lurker questions.
> I'm hoping the membership might be able to help out with a question
> or two. I've become particularly interested in Commodore Barney's
> unit of naval artilleryists who served at the Battle of Bladensburg
> in 1814. Uniforms are no problem...it's the type of gun served that
> vexes me. Before the battle, Barney's squadron of gunboats, which
> had been harassing the Royal Navy in the Chesapeake area, was burned
> to avoid capture in the Patuxent (sp?) River. The sailors later
> showed up at Bladensburg manning a number of heavy guns (perhpas 18
> lbers?). My question is...what type of guns were these? Regular land-
> service artillery carriages and barrels, or naval guns on ship-
> service mounts? Perhaps not as obvious as one might think. For
> example, at New Orleans, the British hauled naval guns overland (or
> over swamp, more accurately) to be served, I believe, by Royal
> Artillerists (and not sailors) against Jackson's positions outside
> the city. If Barney was using regular artillery guns, where did he
> get them? If naval carriages and guns, how did he transport them?
> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:32:11 -0500
> From: "Ed Seufert" <LCpl_RM@...>
> Subject: Re: Commodore Barney question
> By most accounts, Barney arrived on the field at Bladensburg with 2
> 18pounders and 3 12pounders on naval carriages which he brought from the
> Washington Navy Yard. Upon destroying his flotilla, he and his sailors
> joined Winders army at Old Fields and then fell back on the city when the
> army retreated. His sailors slept in the marine barracks the night of the
> 23rd. During the night he received orders to stand guard over the Eastern
> Branch Bridge which he felt was a waste and received permission to join
> the defense at Bladnesburg. His 400 sailors manhandled their guns to the
> battlefield arriving after the British attack had already started.
> Lt Williams, RA, notes in his return of Ordnance captured, that "2
> 18pounders, 5 12pounders, 3 6pounders, with field carriages" were captured
> at Bladensburg but does not define which of the guns were on field
> carriages. Only later in his report does he define "19 12pounders on
> carriages". All told, the British captured 206 cannons, 500 barrels,
> 100,000 rounds of ball-cartridge and 40 barrels of fine grained powder
> between 19 and 25 August 1814.
> Ed Seufert, Cpl
> 1812 Royal Marines
> Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 05:44:33 -0000
> From: "Colin" <usmarine1814@...>
> Subject: Re: Commodore Barney question
> As far as the 12 pounders that were "with Barney" those three
> guns were actually that had been in the service of the Marine
> Corps. They were mounted on feild carriages. They had travelled to
> St. Leonards Creek a month earlier. The Marines had all the gear,
> carriages, carts, tools they needed and at St. Leonard's,
> Bladensburg and in Florida/Georgia*** proved to be very well trained
> and very effective.
> The 18s, I would think, had to be on land carriages. We have
> tugged around our comparatively tiny 6 pounder on Naval Carriage
> over the niceely paved Charlestown Navy Yard and I can say from
> experience that they are like todlers. THEY DON'T TRAVEL WELL!!
> Like most history there are those stories we all know and
> that we believe we have actually seen documentation for, but when we
> reflect upon it you are really not sure and it may be one of those
> myths. This is one of those- In 1813, because of the growing
> British threat in the Chesapeake, the Sec Nav ordered the 18s and
> 12s put onto land carriages and that the Marines train on them in
> the Navy Yard. Marine Corps Band included.
> ***In 1811 the Marines also had 3 6 pounders mounted on land
> carriages and sent along with 53 men to ST. Marys, Georgia were they
> were put into the field to "protect American territory", but were
> actually there to assist in the the largely forgotten "side show"
> of the War of 1812; the Patriots War attacking Spanish Territory.
> (But who was really paying attention anyway) When the Marines were
> ordered home in 1813, from Georgia, they left their guns their for
> the use of the Army.
> Colin Murphy
> USS Constitution
> The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
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