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Re: New NPS Regs

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  • NINETY3RD@xxx.xxx
    ... Hmmmm..... It does provide us with protection of a sort against a very debilitating outside influence, so to speak. I have worn such on my own initiative
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 31, 1999
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      In a message dated 31/8/1999 8:26:57 PM, Easeufe@... writes:

      >I've just received a letter from the NPS on safety regulations to be followed
      >
      >at Fort McHenry for the weekend of the 10-12th. It seems that the NPS
      >has
      >just passed a new rule that persons performing firing demos on park property
      >
      >are now required to wear ear-plugs which will be supplied by the NPS.
      >
      >
      >Does this sound re-enactor friendly? :-( Any comments??

      Hmmmm.....
      It does provide "us" with protection of a sort against a very debilitating
      outside influence, so to speak.
      I have worn such on my own initiative (at Waterloo for one, simply because of
      the amount of close-at hand noise), or at least in one ear at a time (the ear
      closest to the firing --- part of being an officer, I suppose...one can know
      where the noise will come from most of the time).
      Not historically accurate, but as I reenact only an actual small percentage
      of my life, I prefer not to have historically accurate deafness the rest of
      the time.
      After 25 years of close proximity gunfire (in reenactments and also in over
      6000 old west gunfight shows), anything I can do to protect whatever hearing
      I have left I will do.
      Although obviously this is another NPS "let's avoid lawsuits" type of action,
      it is on the outset, looking out for us as well.
      Only thing left to say is....
      What...?

      Cheers
      B
      http://hometown.aol.com/ninety3rd
      THE Thin Red Line
    • IX Regiment
      ... The most damaging noise we often catch is the Musak and benal commentries from the PA systems :-) A fair number of UK Re-enactors use plugs especially
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 1, 1999
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        Benton said:
        >It does provide "us" with protection of a sort against a very debilitating
        >outside influence, so to speak.

        The most damaging noise we often catch is the Musak and benal
        commentries from the PA systems :-)

        A fair number of UK Re-enactors use plugs especially those who's
        employment depends on their hearing!
        >Not historically accurate, but as I reenact only an actual small percentage
        >of my life, I prefer not to have historically accurate deafness the rest of
        >the time.
        Again authenticity is not an absolute, it depends where you draw your
        line, after all I'm far too old, too fat and far too "soft" ** G **
        >Although obviously this is another NPS "let's avoid lawsuits" type of action,
        >it is on the outset, looking out for us as well.
        >Only thing left to say is....
        >What...?
        Pardon.....?
        >
        >Cheers
        P**
        --
        IX Regiment
      • tlubka@xxxxxxx.xxx
        ... at Fort McHenry for the weekend of the 10-12th. It seems that the NPS has just passed a new rule that persons performing firing demos on park property are
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 1, 1999
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          >I've just received a letter from the NPS on safety regulations to be followed
          at Fort McHenry for the weekend of the 10-12th. It seems that the NPS has
          just passed a new rule that persons performing firing demos on park property
          are now required to wear ear-plugs which will be supplied by the NPS.<

          The British Sgt. turns to his men.
          "Make ready!"
          "I said Make ready!!"
          "Hello!!???"..........

          I can see the NPS next inforcing leather gauntlets because one
          might get their hands burned.
          To copy Roger Fuller,
          "Oh the humanity!"

          PS - Sorry Roger....(somebody had to say it)

          Terry Lubka
          25th US, GLI
        • Roger Fuller
          ... From: tlubka@pathcom.com To: WarOf1812@onelist.com Date: 01 September 1999 08:50 Subject: [WarOf1812] Re:New
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 1, 1999
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            -----Original Message-----
            From: tlubka@... <tlubka@...>
            To: WarOf1812@onelist.com <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
            Date: 01 September 1999 08:50
            Subject: [WarOf1812] Re:New NPS Regs


            >From: tlubka@...
            >
            >>I've just received a letter from the NPS on safety regulations to be
            followed
            >at Fort McHenry for the weekend of the 10-12th. It seems that the NPS has
            >just passed a new rule that persons performing firing demos on park
            property
            >are now required to wear ear-plugs which will be supplied by the NPS.<
            >
            >The British Sgt. turns to his men.
            >"Make ready!"
            >"I said Make ready!!"
            >"Hello!!???"..........
            >
            >I can see the NPS next inforcing leather gauntlets because one
            >might get their hands burned.
            >To copy Roger Fuller,
            >"Oh the humanity!"
            >
            >PS - Sorry Roger....(somebody had to say it)
            >
            >Terry Lubka
            >25th US, GLI
            >
            Actually, I am waiting for the NPS to make us all put large clear plexiglas
            shields on our muskets and rifles. We'd all look like we were carrying
            transparent Panzerfaust weapons....:^)

            *sigh* just one more banana peel on our slippery way down the slope to the
            all-knowing, all-seeing, all-banning "Nanny State"...

            "We know what's best for you- just shut up and do as we tell you...." :^),
            they always say.

            "But... we're doing it for the chiiiildren!", they also say.

            "Oh, the humanity!" I say (again)....

            Other possible scenario:

            "Look out for that falling branch!"
            "Huh? Whaddidyousay?"
            "Look out!"
            "What? I have no idea what you're saying. Lemme take out these earpl- "

            NB: I wear earplugs when shooting live, but live ball is a lot louder than
            the "FOOMP" of a musket full of powder. I also wear them because many of my
            fellow shooters at the range fire Berettas, SKS's, Mausers, Armalites, etc.
            THOSE are loud!!

            At reenactments? It should be up to the individual, i.e, responsible adult,
            who chooses to participate, Legalman notwithstanding. Reenactment is an
            inherently risky affair, and one should proceed accordingly, keeping in mind
            one's personal limitations.

            Anybody else seen this new restriction for living historians at an NPS (or
            English Heritage!) site, or anywhere else?

            Roger Fuller
            3/95th
          • BritcomHMP@xxx.xxx
            In a message dated 8/31/1999 10:27:02 PM Central Daylight Time, Easeufe@aol.com writes:
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 1, 1999
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              In a message dated 8/31/1999 10:27:02 PM Central Daylight Time,
              Easeufe@... writes:

              << I've just received a letter from the NPS on safety regulations to be
              followed
              at Fort McHenry for the weekend of the 10-12th. It seems that the NPS has
              just passed a new rule that persons performing firing demos on park property
              are now required to wear ear-plugs which will be supplied by the NPS.

              Does this sound re-enactor friendly? :-( Any comments??
              >>

              I am waiting for the day when they ban firing all together and tell everyone
              to shout 'BANG'.

              Re-enactment never was, is not and never will be 100% safe. These 'sticking
              plasters' stuck over it to make it so are at best futile, and at worst give a
              false sense of security.

              I am not saying that if an individual wants to use them they should not be
              able to, but 'Nanny Government' should realise that we are perfectly capable
              of wiping our own backsides.

              Cheers

              Tim
            • SACBG7@aol.com
              Dear Onelist, I have the honor of commanding at Ft. McHenry next weekend. I too noticed the ear plug mention in my packet. While not exactly thrilled I can
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 2, 1999
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                Dear Onelist,
                I have the honor of commanding at Ft. McHenry next weekend. I too noticed the ear plug mention in my packet. While not exactly thrilled I can understand their point. I also see the worth of what was brought up not just by Benton, but by Tim, and many others of you.

                While we may not like orange or yellow foam protruding from our ears (or even parsnips) it remains that we are guests on another site's property having two choices--play by their rules or don't attend.

                I too have lost some hearing over the years due to gunfire, explosions, and even theatrical work, (another story.) At times I do choose to wear them. At others not. But the choice is mine. If something happens then I and I alone must bear responsibility. Tim is right. This can be and sometimes is a dangerous hobby. While I respect the Park's concerns, and will be sure my people follow them, I would much rather have been given a choice. If the choice is offered and something happens by your declining to wear them the responsibility must lie with you and you alone. We can't legislate responsibility, nor can we make others responsible for choices we make.

                I understand the NPS's concern. Having personally seen some things on NPS and State property done by reenactors I can well percieve the reason for their concern. One sorry by-product of this is the mistrust which still seems to fester between those entrusted with an historical site's care and those who want to help interpret it.

                Given a choice I probably wouldn't wear them. Since it is their sandbox and I am their guest, I'll play by their rules. I guess it is a shame when we must have laws for everything, including what should be our own responsibility. Any other viewpoints?
                Thanks. Hope to see many of you next weekend.
                Sincerely,
                Steve Abolt
                7th USILHA
                www.cottonbalers.lynchburg.net
              • Pudding Boy
                Some years ago I had a set of custom fitted ear plugs made for me out of a flesh colored silicone like substance. They aren t so farby looking and they fit
                Message 7 of 11 , Sep 2, 1999
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                  Some years ago I had a set of custom fitted ear plugs made for me out of a
                  flesh colored silicone like substance. They aren't so farby looking and
                  they fit perfectly. Biggest advantage is that they actually work better
                  than the one size fits all foam cylinders. They were called the peacekeeper
                  and were produced at that time by Marion Safety. I have no idea if they are
                  still available or if the company is still in business but it is a great
                  product. AND not very noticable at 20 paces.

                  Dave Hinkley


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: SACBG7@... <SACBG7@...>
                  To: Easeufe@... <Easeufe@...>; WarOf1812@onelist.com
                  <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
                  Date: Thursday, September 02, 1999 1:56 PM
                  Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] New NPS Regs


                  >From: SACBG7@...
                  >
                  >Dear Onelist,
                  >I have the honor of commanding at Ft. McHenry next weekend. I too noticed
                  the ear plug mention in my packet. While not exactly thrilled I can
                  understand their point. I also see the worth of what was brought up not just
                  by Benton, but by Tim, and many others of you.
                  >
                  > While we may not like orange or yellow foam protruding from our ears (or
                  even parsnips) it remains that we are guests on another site's property
                  having two choices--play by their rules or don't attend.
                  >
                  >I too have lost some hearing over the years due to gunfire, explosions, and
                  even theatrical work, (another story.) At times I do choose to wear them.
                  At others not. But the choice is mine. If something happens then I and I
                  alone must bear responsibility. Tim is right. This can be and sometimes is
                  a dangerous hobby. While I respect the Park's concerns, and will be sure my
                  people follow them, I would much rather have been given a choice. If the
                  choice is offered and something happens by your declining to wear them the
                  responsibility must lie with you and you alone. We can't legislate
                  responsibility, nor can we make others responsible for choices we make.
                  >
                  >I understand the NPS's concern. Having personally seen some things on NPS
                  and State property done by reenactors I can well percieve the reason for
                  their concern. One sorry by-product of this is the mistrust which still
                  seems to fester between those entrusted with an historical site's care and
                  those who want to help interpret it.
                  >
                  >Given a choice I probably wouldn't wear them. Since it is their sandbox
                  and I am their guest, I'll play by their rules. I guess it is a shame when
                  we must have laws for everything, including what should be our own
                  responsibility. Any other viewpoints?
                  >Thanks. Hope to see many of you next weekend.
                  >Sincerely,
                  >Steve Abolt
                  >7th USILHA
                  >www.cottonbalers.lynchburg.net
                  >
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                • Easeufe@xxx.xxx
                  Thanks to Dave Webb for sharing your experiences with Parks Canada rules and his insight into the whys and wherefores. (BTW, Fort McHenry does not have
                  Message 8 of 11 , Sep 2, 1999
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                    Thanks to Dave Webb for sharing your experiences with Parks Canada rules and
                    his insight into the whys and wherefores. (BTW, Fort McHenry does not have
                    opposing forces and the firing demos are done on a field next to the
                    waterfront.)

                    I agree with Steve Abolt that the choice of wearing ear-plugs should be a
                    personal decision and not mandated and have written a letter to that effect
                    to Fort McHenry. The members of my unit have agreed with my response and
                    support it.

                    As I stated in my letter to the Fort, I have never worn ear-plugs in my 25
                    years of re-enacting. I do have a slight loss of hearing in my left ear but
                    that could have just as easily been attributed to running around the country
                    to re-enactments with my driver's side window down and having a steady stream
                    of air/noise blowing into it. I have served in the ranks and on artillery.
                    As far as I'm concerned, the most dangerous firing is that which is done over
                    your body when you're re-enacting the dead and wounded.

                    Yes, Steve, you are correct that we must abide by the rules set forth by the
                    site if we are to continue to play there. I also agree with Dave that it is
                    the sites that we support and who likewise support us that allow us to keep
                    on re-enacting. Since our entry into the War of 1812 scene, several Maryland
                    State Parks and County/Private sites have opened theirs gates and coffers to
                    embrace this period. In several cases, they turn to us for recommendations
                    on how to conduct the event and rely on us for our own and the site's safety
                    rules. We must always conduct ourselves as employees of the site and make
                    the safety of the public our paramount concern. At times, re-enacting and
                    authenticity must give way to the public welfare.

                    It's interesting that the NPS has brought this to our attention just 2 weeks
                    before the event. We had participated in another NPS event in southern
                    Maryland which highlighted multi-period warfare in that part of the state.
                    This was just 3 weeks ago and the non-wearing of ear-plugs was not an issue.
                    We were surprised though when the NPS Black Powder Safety Officer (SO) took a
                    list of our names, SSNs and the serial numbers of our muskets. The firing
                    demo had to be done in an approximate 5x5 foot area; however, two ACW
                    soldiers couldn't fire due to the SO not being trained in rifled weapons and
                    two Ft. McHenry Guard soldiers cited rules for why they couldn't fire.

                    To clarify what happened at Bladensburg, we had an officers meeting at noon
                    to discuss the battle re-enactment for later that day. The Guard announced
                    that they couldn't fire but would play the part of retreating militia; at
                    3:00, they announced they wouldn't participate at all citing NPS rules.

                    Ed Seufert
                    Royal Marines
                  • Roger Fuller
                    ... From: Easeufe@aol.com To: warof1812@onelist.com Date: 03 September 1999 00:37 Subject: [WarOf1812] New NPS Regs
                    Message 9 of 11 , Sep 3, 1999
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                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Easeufe@... <Easeufe@...>
                      To: warof1812@onelist.com <warof1812@onelist.com>
                      Date: 03 September 1999 00:37
                      Subject: [WarOf1812] New NPS Regs


                      >From: Easeufe@...
                      >
                      (snip)
                      >This was just 3 weeks ago and the non-wearing of ear-plugs was not an
                      issue.
                      >We were surprised though when the NPS Black Powder Safety Officer (SO) took
                      a
                      >list of our names, SSNs and the serial numbers of our muskets

                      (snip)

                      >Ed Seufert
                      >Royal Marines
                      >

                      I'd like to know what branch of the Internal Revenue Service or Social
                      Security Administration this NPS BPSO thought he was also employed
                      by...those are the ONLY two Federal agencies that would legally have any
                      right to demand your social security number. Insurers do NOT need to have
                      your SS#, no matter how much they may whine and complain. Same with state,
                      county and federal law enforcement or motor vehicle departments. They may
                      ask you, but you don't have to give it to them.

                      Next time ask him what law permits him to ask such a sensitive question. SS#
                      misuse is rampant- don't let anybody know it who is not involved with your
                      taxes, paychecks, or retirement funds. It's the law!

                      Better yet, don't even play along- just walk away. That's the loudest
                      protest one can make, besides contacting your senators and representatives.
                      These events sound as if they are potentially more trouble than they are
                      worth. Even up here in Massachusetts, the NPS -so far- haven't pulled
                      anything like this.

                      Roger Fuller
                      3/95th (Rifles)
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