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Re: [WarOf1812] Passing Port or Mess Traditions was Christmas Cheer

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  • BritcomHMP@aol.com
    In a message dated 04/01/2005 16:01:53 Central Standard Time, dancingbobd@webtv.net writes: I can t report on the combat forces traditions, but since the
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 4, 2005
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      In a message dated 04/01/2005 16:01:53 Central Standard Time,
      dancingbobd@... writes:

      I can't report on the combat forces traditions, but since the early
      federal period the US did it's best to eliminate the the perceived
      "trappings" of the British system of titles and aristocracy. The US
      Army had no tradition of officers coming only from the upper classes and
      were proud of that. That might explain a lack of "passing the port"
      traditions in the US Army.



      Ah! Great to be in a land where sons do not follow fathers as head of state,
      where there are no political/aristocratic dynasties and where no one ever
      wants to try to impress you with their ancestry.

      From an old copy of the Smithsonian magazine

      The DARlings twitter like starlings
      reciting their ancestors names
      As off and aloof with looks of reproof
      sit the Colonial Dames

      The Cincinatti all merry and chatty
      dangle their medals and pendants
      While silent and proud disdaining the crowd
      stand the Mayflower Decendants!

      The other day after having lunch with former Congresswoman 'Lindy'Boggs I
      mentioned to an ex Marine friend of mine how charming she is, 'yes' he replied,
      'and a collateral decendant of the first governor of the State, but of course
      we don't have an aristocracy!'

      Cheers

      Tim


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • dancingbobd@webtv.net
      Tim, Thanks, I needed that! Vic, Well said! Better than I did. Regards, Bob [Make that just plain Bob!]
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 4, 2005
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        Tim,

        Thanks, I needed that!

        Vic,

        Well said! Better than I did.

        Regards,

        Bob
        [Make that just plain Bob!]
      • suthren@magma.ca
        Dear Bob The British tradition of drinking port, and the various rituals associated with it, were not in fact part of the overt mechanism of social class
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 4, 2005
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          Dear Bob

          The British tradition of drinking port, and the various rituals associated
          with it, were not in fact part of the overt mechanism of social class
          distinction, but of ritual associated with certain levels of rank that, once
          achieved, were enjoyed. In the Royal Navy, if a pressed laborer's son clawed
          his way up through the ranks and 'through the hawse' to win his Lieutenant's
          commission, he adopted the wardroom rituals in recognition of having
          achieved the rank, not necessarily a superior social status. The issue was
          confused further in North America by the Canadian custom of enthusiastically
          retaining (and adapting for their own uses) virtually all such British
          traditions as they could get away with while being wholly egalitarian in the
          field (calling officers by their first names and whatnot, something that
          drove the Brits nuts during the First and Second World Wars when Canadians
          were attached to them). The key, I think, in archaic military traditions, is
          to see such traditions as reflective of rank or professional status achieved
          rather than a celebration of social superiority. Admittedly the Americans
          solved the problem by simply doing away with most of that stuff, even though
          they set up their own social stratifications through other means....

          Yours aye
          Vic
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <dancingbobd@...>
          To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 4:58 PM
          Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Passing Port or Mess Traditions was Christmas Cheer


          >
          > L2 & all,
          >
          > When I was on active duty [1966-68] I was not in a regimental type of
          > unit. When I was part of the OCS Brigade at Aberdeen Proving Ground
          > there were "Dinning In" dinners at the Officers Open Mess [Officers Club
          > on post]. There was a "cocktail hour" before we were seated for dinner,
          > but no after dinner passing of anything.
          >
          > I can't report on the combat forces traditions, but since the early
          > federal period the US did it's best to eliminate the the perceived
          > "trappings" of the British system of titles and aristocracy. The US
          > Army had no tradition of officers coming only from the upper classes and
          > were proud of that. That might explain a lack of "passing the port"
          > traditions in the US Army.
          >
          > Regards,
          >
          > Bob Dorian
          > Independence, MO
          > [Former Cap't. US Army Ordnance Corps]
          >
          >
          >
          > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
          square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
          square miles...
          >
          > Unit Contact information for North America:
          > ---------------------------------
          > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          >
          > American Forces Unit Lisiting
          > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Robert White
          While the U. S. Army may have no formal mess traditions, the same can not be said for the U.S. Marine Corps. The Corps has a very formal ceremony called a
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 4, 2005
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            While the U. S. Army may have no formal mess traditions, the same can not be said for the U.S. Marine Corps. The Corps has a very formal ceremony called a "Mess Night". It is not just for but is primarily used by officers and upper level NCO's but can be used by any outfit and is quite often when deployment orders are received. Everything is choreographed from the positions in the mess where various participants should sit, to the music to be played and when it should be played and what it should be, what should be said and when and what should be served and when. The affair is usually formal attire with full dress blue uniform or dress mess uniform, medals, etc. It is actually part of the Marine Corps Manual. Pv.t R.R. White, 1812 US Marine Guard on board Constitution (Sgt. USMC 1961-1967)

            dancingbobd@... wrote:L2 & all,

            When I was on active duty [1966-68] I was not in a regimental type of
            unit. When I was part of the OCS Brigade at Aberdeen Proving Ground
            there were "Dinning In" dinners at the Officers Open Mess [Officers Club
            on post]. There was a "cocktail hour" before we were seated for dinner,
            but no after dinner passing of anything.

            I can't report on the combat forces traditions, but since the early
            federal period the US did it's best to eliminate the the perceived
            "trappings" of the British system of titles and aristocracy. The US
            Army had no tradition of officers coming only from the upper classes and
            were proud of that. That might explain a lack of "passing the port"
            traditions in the US Army.

            Regards,

            Bob Dorian
            Independence, MO
            [Former Cap't. US Army Ordnance Corps]



            The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

            Unit Contact information for North America:
            ---------------------------------
            Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

            American Forces Unit Lisiting
            http://usforces1812.tripod.com



            ---------------------------------
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          • Robert White
            There are no ex Marines unless you were dishonorably discharged. Once you earn the title, you are one of two things either a Marine or a dead Marine. :-))
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 4, 2005
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              There are no "ex Marines" unless you were dishonorably discharged. Once you earn the title, you are one of two things either a Marine or a dead Marine. :-)) Pvt. R.White

              BritcomHMP@... wrote:
              In a message dated 04/01/2005 16:01:53 Central Standard Time,
              dancingbobd@... writes:

              I can't report on the combat forces traditions, but since the early
              federal period the US did it's best to eliminate the the perceived
              "trappings" of the British system of titles and aristocracy. The US
              Army had no tradition of officers coming only from the upper classes and
              were proud of that. That might explain a lack of "passing the port"
              traditions in the US Army.



              Ah! Great to be in a land where sons do not follow fathers as head of state,
              where there are no political/aristocratic dynasties and where no one ever
              wants to try to impress you with their ancestry.

              From an old copy of the Smithsonian magazine

              The DARlings twitter like starlings
              reciting their ancestors names
              As off and aloof with looks of reproof
              sit the Colonial Dames

              The Cincinatti all merry and chatty
              dangle their medals and pendants
              While silent and proud disdaining the crowd
              stand the Mayflower Decendants!

              The other day after having lunch with former Congresswoman 'Lindy'Boggs I
              mentioned to an ex Marine friend of mine how charming she is, 'yes' he replied,
              'and a collateral decendant of the first governor of the State, but of course
              we don't have an aristocracy!'

              Cheers

              Tim


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

              Unit Contact information for North America:
              ---------------------------------
              Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

              American Forces Unit Lisiting
              http://usforces1812.tripod.com



              ---------------------------------
              Yahoo! Groups Links

              To visit your group on the web, go to:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




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