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Re: [WarOf1812] Passing Port or Mess Traditions was Christmas Cheer

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  • dancingbobd@webtv.net
    L2 & all, When I was on active duty [1966-68] I was not in a regimental type of unit. When I was part of the OCS Brigade at Aberdeen Proving Ground there were
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 4, 2005
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      L2 & all,

      When I was on active duty [1966-68] I was not in a regimental type of
      unit. When I was part of the OCS Brigade at Aberdeen Proving Ground
      there were "Dinning In" dinners at the Officers Open Mess [Officers Club
      on post]. There was a "cocktail hour" before we were seated for dinner,
      but no after dinner passing of anything.

      I can't report on the combat forces traditions, but since the early
      federal period the US did it's best to eliminate the the perceived
      "trappings" of the British system of titles and aristocracy. The US
      Army had no tradition of officers coming only from the upper classes and
      were proud of that. That might explain a lack of "passing the port"
      traditions in the US Army.

      Regards,

      Bob Dorian
      Independence, MO
      [Former Cap't. US Army Ordnance Corps]
    • BritcomHMP@aol.com
      In a message dated 04/01/2005 16:01:53 Central Standard Time, dancingbobd@webtv.net writes: I can t report on the combat forces traditions, but since the
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 4, 2005
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        In a message dated 04/01/2005 16:01:53 Central Standard Time,
        dancingbobd@... writes:

        I can't report on the combat forces traditions, but since the early
        federal period the US did it's best to eliminate the the perceived
        "trappings" of the British system of titles and aristocracy. The US
        Army had no tradition of officers coming only from the upper classes and
        were proud of that. That might explain a lack of "passing the port"
        traditions in the US Army.



        Ah! Great to be in a land where sons do not follow fathers as head of state,
        where there are no political/aristocratic dynasties and where no one ever
        wants to try to impress you with their ancestry.

        From an old copy of the Smithsonian magazine

        The DARlings twitter like starlings
        reciting their ancestors names
        As off and aloof with looks of reproof
        sit the Colonial Dames

        The Cincinatti all merry and chatty
        dangle their medals and pendants
        While silent and proud disdaining the crowd
        stand the Mayflower Decendants!

        The other day after having lunch with former Congresswoman 'Lindy'Boggs I
        mentioned to an ex Marine friend of mine how charming she is, 'yes' he replied,
        'and a collateral decendant of the first governor of the State, but of course
        we don't have an aristocracy!'

        Cheers

        Tim


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • dancingbobd@webtv.net
        Tim, Thanks, I needed that! Vic, Well said! Better than I did. Regards, Bob [Make that just plain Bob!]
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 4, 2005
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          Tim,

          Thanks, I needed that!

          Vic,

          Well said! Better than I did.

          Regards,

          Bob
          [Make that just plain Bob!]
        • suthren@magma.ca
          Dear Bob The British tradition of drinking port, and the various rituals associated with it, were not in fact part of the overt mechanism of social class
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 4, 2005
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            Dear Bob

            The British tradition of drinking port, and the various rituals associated
            with it, were not in fact part of the overt mechanism of social class
            distinction, but of ritual associated with certain levels of rank that, once
            achieved, were enjoyed. In the Royal Navy, if a pressed laborer's son clawed
            his way up through the ranks and 'through the hawse' to win his Lieutenant's
            commission, he adopted the wardroom rituals in recognition of having
            achieved the rank, not necessarily a superior social status. The issue was
            confused further in North America by the Canadian custom of enthusiastically
            retaining (and adapting for their own uses) virtually all such British
            traditions as they could get away with while being wholly egalitarian in the
            field (calling officers by their first names and whatnot, something that
            drove the Brits nuts during the First and Second World Wars when Canadians
            were attached to them). The key, I think, in archaic military traditions, is
            to see such traditions as reflective of rank or professional status achieved
            rather than a celebration of social superiority. Admittedly the Americans
            solved the problem by simply doing away with most of that stuff, even though
            they set up their own social stratifications through other means....

            Yours aye
            Vic
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <dancingbobd@...>
            To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 4:58 PM
            Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Passing Port or Mess Traditions was Christmas Cheer


            >
            > L2 & all,
            >
            > When I was on active duty [1966-68] I was not in a regimental type of
            > unit. When I was part of the OCS Brigade at Aberdeen Proving Ground
            > there were "Dinning In" dinners at the Officers Open Mess [Officers Club
            > on post]. There was a "cocktail hour" before we were seated for dinner,
            > but no after dinner passing of anything.
            >
            > I can't report on the combat forces traditions, but since the early
            > federal period the US did it's best to eliminate the the perceived
            > "trappings" of the British system of titles and aristocracy. The US
            > Army had no tradition of officers coming only from the upper classes and
            > were proud of that. That might explain a lack of "passing the port"
            > traditions in the US Army.
            >
            > Regards,
            >
            > Bob Dorian
            > Independence, MO
            > [Former Cap't. US Army Ordnance Corps]
            >
            >
            >
            > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
            square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
            square miles...
            >
            > Unit Contact information for North America:
            > ---------------------------------
            > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            >
            > American Forces Unit Lisiting
            > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Robert White
            While the U. S. Army may have no formal mess traditions, the same can not be said for the U.S. Marine Corps. The Corps has a very formal ceremony called a
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 4, 2005
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              While the U. S. Army may have no formal mess traditions, the same can not be said for the U.S. Marine Corps. The Corps has a very formal ceremony called a "Mess Night". It is not just for but is primarily used by officers and upper level NCO's but can be used by any outfit and is quite often when deployment orders are received. Everything is choreographed from the positions in the mess where various participants should sit, to the music to be played and when it should be played and what it should be, what should be said and when and what should be served and when. The affair is usually formal attire with full dress blue uniform or dress mess uniform, medals, etc. It is actually part of the Marine Corps Manual. Pv.t R.R. White, 1812 US Marine Guard on board Constitution (Sgt. USMC 1961-1967)

              dancingbobd@... wrote:L2 & all,

              When I was on active duty [1966-68] I was not in a regimental type of
              unit. When I was part of the OCS Brigade at Aberdeen Proving Ground
              there were "Dinning In" dinners at the Officers Open Mess [Officers Club
              on post]. There was a "cocktail hour" before we were seated for dinner,
              but no after dinner passing of anything.

              I can't report on the combat forces traditions, but since the early
              federal period the US did it's best to eliminate the the perceived
              "trappings" of the British system of titles and aristocracy. The US
              Army had no tradition of officers coming only from the upper classes and
              were proud of that. That might explain a lack of "passing the port"
              traditions in the US Army.

              Regards,

              Bob Dorian
              Independence, MO
              [Former Cap't. US Army Ordnance Corps]



              The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

              Unit Contact information for North America:
              ---------------------------------
              Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

              American Forces Unit Lisiting
              http://usforces1812.tripod.com



              ---------------------------------
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              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

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            • Robert White
              There are no ex Marines unless you were dishonorably discharged. Once you earn the title, you are one of two things either a Marine or a dead Marine. :-))
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 4, 2005
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                There are no "ex Marines" unless you were dishonorably discharged. Once you earn the title, you are one of two things either a Marine or a dead Marine. :-)) Pvt. R.White

                BritcomHMP@... wrote:
                In a message dated 04/01/2005 16:01:53 Central Standard Time,
                dancingbobd@... writes:

                I can't report on the combat forces traditions, but since the early
                federal period the US did it's best to eliminate the the perceived
                "trappings" of the British system of titles and aristocracy. The US
                Army had no tradition of officers coming only from the upper classes and
                were proud of that. That might explain a lack of "passing the port"
                traditions in the US Army.



                Ah! Great to be in a land where sons do not follow fathers as head of state,
                where there are no political/aristocratic dynasties and where no one ever
                wants to try to impress you with their ancestry.

                From an old copy of the Smithsonian magazine

                The DARlings twitter like starlings
                reciting their ancestors names
                As off and aloof with looks of reproof
                sit the Colonial Dames

                The Cincinatti all merry and chatty
                dangle their medals and pendants
                While silent and proud disdaining the crowd
                stand the Mayflower Decendants!

                The other day after having lunch with former Congresswoman 'Lindy'Boggs I
                mentioned to an ex Marine friend of mine how charming she is, 'yes' he replied,
                'and a collateral decendant of the first governor of the State, but of course
                we don't have an aristocracy!'

                Cheers

                Tim


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                Unit Contact information for North America:
                ---------------------------------
                Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                American Forces Unit Lisiting
                http://usforces1812.tripod.com



                ---------------------------------
                Yahoo! Groups Links

                To visit your group on the web, go to:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




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                Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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