Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Passing Port or Mess Traditions was Christmas Cheer

Expand Messages
  • lalozon
    Michael Mathews wrote: ... As for the port ... once started about it was very bad form to set it down till it had been all the way around or was emptied.
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 4, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Michael Mathews wrote:

      "... As for the port ... once started about it was very bad form to set it
      down till it had been all the way around or was emptied. "

      J-P Johnson wrote:

      Canadian Air Force-types pass the port without letting it touch the table.
      Some of us even hold the glass aloft while pouring ... The army-types I
      associate with either don't seem to have a preference or have a specific
      regimental custom.

      ............

      Port drinkers all,


      According to the book

      OFFICER'S MESS
      Lt. Col. R. J Dickinson 1987
      ISBN 81-7002-028-X

      Different Army Regiments and Divisions had peculiar Toasting and Bottle
      Handling Procedures.

      Most Messes post their procedures. Both to remind members and inform guests.

      This year

      The Crown Officer's Mess read it's rules at the opening of every Mess
      The 8th (KINGS) Regt. printed their rules on the menu at their Annual Mess
      Dinner
      The 41st Regt reads it's rules at the opening of the Mess

      ..... just to report on a couple of the 1812 Messes

      Having served in the Essex & Kent Scottish Regiment (Canadian Army Reserve)
      we used Drambuie
      and I have visited other Highland Regiments that use Scotch.
      I believe the Canadian Hussars use Canadian Whisky.

      The army-types seem to have more tradition than the fly-boys ... but of
      course their Corps is older ! :*)

      Squadron Commander Victor Suthren has reported on the Navy and I have shared
      Grog with the Royal Marines

      Possibly some of the American Regiments would like to share their Toasting
      and Bottle Handling Procedures?


      Yrs.,

      L2

      'Dam, me Sir, Port is the only wine'
      Caption of a painting by Rex Whistler - Welsh Guards
    • dancingbobd@webtv.net
      L2 & all, When I was on active duty [1966-68] I was not in a regimental type of unit. When I was part of the OCS Brigade at Aberdeen Proving Ground there were
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 4, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        L2 & all,

        When I was on active duty [1966-68] I was not in a regimental type of
        unit. When I was part of the OCS Brigade at Aberdeen Proving Ground
        there were "Dinning In" dinners at the Officers Open Mess [Officers Club
        on post]. There was a "cocktail hour" before we were seated for dinner,
        but no after dinner passing of anything.

        I can't report on the combat forces traditions, but since the early
        federal period the US did it's best to eliminate the the perceived
        "trappings" of the British system of titles and aristocracy. The US
        Army had no tradition of officers coming only from the upper classes and
        were proud of that. That might explain a lack of "passing the port"
        traditions in the US Army.

        Regards,

        Bob Dorian
        Independence, MO
        [Former Cap't. US Army Ordnance Corps]
      • BritcomHMP@aol.com
        In a message dated 04/01/2005 16:01:53 Central Standard Time, dancingbobd@webtv.net writes: I can t report on the combat forces traditions, but since the
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 4, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          In a message dated 04/01/2005 16:01:53 Central Standard Time,
          dancingbobd@... writes:

          I can't report on the combat forces traditions, but since the early
          federal period the US did it's best to eliminate the the perceived
          "trappings" of the British system of titles and aristocracy. The US
          Army had no tradition of officers coming only from the upper classes and
          were proud of that. That might explain a lack of "passing the port"
          traditions in the US Army.



          Ah! Great to be in a land where sons do not follow fathers as head of state,
          where there are no political/aristocratic dynasties and where no one ever
          wants to try to impress you with their ancestry.

          From an old copy of the Smithsonian magazine

          The DARlings twitter like starlings
          reciting their ancestors names
          As off and aloof with looks of reproof
          sit the Colonial Dames

          The Cincinatti all merry and chatty
          dangle their medals and pendants
          While silent and proud disdaining the crowd
          stand the Mayflower Decendants!

          The other day after having lunch with former Congresswoman 'Lindy'Boggs I
          mentioned to an ex Marine friend of mine how charming she is, 'yes' he replied,
          'and a collateral decendant of the first governor of the State, but of course
          we don't have an aristocracy!'

          Cheers

          Tim


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • dancingbobd@webtv.net
          Tim, Thanks, I needed that! Vic, Well said! Better than I did. Regards, Bob [Make that just plain Bob!]
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 4, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Tim,

            Thanks, I needed that!

            Vic,

            Well said! Better than I did.

            Regards,

            Bob
            [Make that just plain Bob!]
          • suthren@magma.ca
            Dear Bob The British tradition of drinking port, and the various rituals associated with it, were not in fact part of the overt mechanism of social class
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 4, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Dear Bob

              The British tradition of drinking port, and the various rituals associated
              with it, were not in fact part of the overt mechanism of social class
              distinction, but of ritual associated with certain levels of rank that, once
              achieved, were enjoyed. In the Royal Navy, if a pressed laborer's son clawed
              his way up through the ranks and 'through the hawse' to win his Lieutenant's
              commission, he adopted the wardroom rituals in recognition of having
              achieved the rank, not necessarily a superior social status. The issue was
              confused further in North America by the Canadian custom of enthusiastically
              retaining (and adapting for their own uses) virtually all such British
              traditions as they could get away with while being wholly egalitarian in the
              field (calling officers by their first names and whatnot, something that
              drove the Brits nuts during the First and Second World Wars when Canadians
              were attached to them). The key, I think, in archaic military traditions, is
              to see such traditions as reflective of rank or professional status achieved
              rather than a celebration of social superiority. Admittedly the Americans
              solved the problem by simply doing away with most of that stuff, even though
              they set up their own social stratifications through other means....

              Yours aye
              Vic
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: <dancingbobd@...>
              To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 4:58 PM
              Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Passing Port or Mess Traditions was Christmas Cheer


              >
              > L2 & all,
              >
              > When I was on active duty [1966-68] I was not in a regimental type of
              > unit. When I was part of the OCS Brigade at Aberdeen Proving Ground
              > there were "Dinning In" dinners at the Officers Open Mess [Officers Club
              > on post]. There was a "cocktail hour" before we were seated for dinner,
              > but no after dinner passing of anything.
              >
              > I can't report on the combat forces traditions, but since the early
              > federal period the US did it's best to eliminate the the perceived
              > "trappings" of the British system of titles and aristocracy. The US
              > Army had no tradition of officers coming only from the upper classes and
              > were proud of that. That might explain a lack of "passing the port"
              > traditions in the US Army.
              >
              > Regards,
              >
              > Bob Dorian
              > Independence, MO
              > [Former Cap't. US Army Ordnance Corps]
              >
              >
              >
              > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
              square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
              square miles...
              >
              > Unit Contact information for North America:
              > ---------------------------------
              > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              >
              > American Forces Unit Lisiting
              > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Robert White
              While the U. S. Army may have no formal mess traditions, the same can not be said for the U.S. Marine Corps. The Corps has a very formal ceremony called a
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 4, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                While the U. S. Army may have no formal mess traditions, the same can not be said for the U.S. Marine Corps. The Corps has a very formal ceremony called a "Mess Night". It is not just for but is primarily used by officers and upper level NCO's but can be used by any outfit and is quite often when deployment orders are received. Everything is choreographed from the positions in the mess where various participants should sit, to the music to be played and when it should be played and what it should be, what should be said and when and what should be served and when. The affair is usually formal attire with full dress blue uniform or dress mess uniform, medals, etc. It is actually part of the Marine Corps Manual. Pv.t R.R. White, 1812 US Marine Guard on board Constitution (Sgt. USMC 1961-1967)

                dancingbobd@... wrote:L2 & all,

                When I was on active duty [1966-68] I was not in a regimental type of
                unit. When I was part of the OCS Brigade at Aberdeen Proving Ground
                there were "Dinning In" dinners at the Officers Open Mess [Officers Club
                on post]. There was a "cocktail hour" before we were seated for dinner,
                but no after dinner passing of anything.

                I can't report on the combat forces traditions, but since the early
                federal period the US did it's best to eliminate the the perceived
                "trappings" of the British system of titles and aristocracy. The US
                Army had no tradition of officers coming only from the upper classes and
                were proud of that. That might explain a lack of "passing the port"
                traditions in the US Army.

                Regards,

                Bob Dorian
                Independence, MO
                [Former Cap't. US Army Ordnance Corps]



                The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                Unit Contact information for North America:
                ---------------------------------
                Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                American Forces Unit Lisiting
                http://usforces1812.tripod.com



                ---------------------------------
                Yahoo! Groups Links

                To visit your group on the web, go to:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




                ---------------------------------
                Do you Yahoo!?
                Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Robert White
                There are no ex Marines unless you were dishonorably discharged. Once you earn the title, you are one of two things either a Marine or a dead Marine. :-))
                Message 7 of 7 , Jan 4, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  There are no "ex Marines" unless you were dishonorably discharged. Once you earn the title, you are one of two things either a Marine or a dead Marine. :-)) Pvt. R.White

                  BritcomHMP@... wrote:
                  In a message dated 04/01/2005 16:01:53 Central Standard Time,
                  dancingbobd@... writes:

                  I can't report on the combat forces traditions, but since the early
                  federal period the US did it's best to eliminate the the perceived
                  "trappings" of the British system of titles and aristocracy. The US
                  Army had no tradition of officers coming only from the upper classes and
                  were proud of that. That might explain a lack of "passing the port"
                  traditions in the US Army.



                  Ah! Great to be in a land where sons do not follow fathers as head of state,
                  where there are no political/aristocratic dynasties and where no one ever
                  wants to try to impress you with their ancestry.

                  From an old copy of the Smithsonian magazine

                  The DARlings twitter like starlings
                  reciting their ancestors names
                  As off and aloof with looks of reproof
                  sit the Colonial Dames

                  The Cincinatti all merry and chatty
                  dangle their medals and pendants
                  While silent and proud disdaining the crowd
                  stand the Mayflower Decendants!

                  The other day after having lunch with former Congresswoman 'Lindy'Boggs I
                  mentioned to an ex Marine friend of mine how charming she is, 'yes' he replied,
                  'and a collateral decendant of the first governor of the State, but of course
                  we don't have an aristocracy!'

                  Cheers

                  Tim


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                  Unit Contact information for North America:
                  ---------------------------------
                  Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                  http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                  American Forces Unit Lisiting
                  http://usforces1812.tripod.com



                  ---------------------------------
                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                  To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




                  ---------------------------------
                  Do you Yahoo!?
                  Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.