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  • Larry Lozon
    ... From: Lyn Downer To: Larry Lozon Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 8:26 AM Subject:
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 2, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Lyn Downer" <lyn.downer@...>
      To: "Larry Lozon" <lalozon@...>
      Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 8:26 AM
      Subject: Victoria Cross


      Larry:

      Perhaps you could let a few people know of the quest to keep Cpl.
      Fred Topham's VC here in Canada. It has been reported in the major
      dailies, but as reenactors we should pay particular attention to the
      potential loss of one of only 19 VC's awarded to Canadians. A challenge
      has been issued via letters to the editor in the Toronto Star to send
      even just $1. to the 1st. Canadian Parachute Battalion to help save the
      VC before Remembrance Day. The address is 1st. Canadian Parachute
      Battalion Museum Trust, The Cpl. Fred Topham VC Fundraising Project, c/o
      The Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 130 Queen St. E. Toronto, Ont., M5A 1R9.
      Hopefully through the efforts of thousands of Canadians we can keep this
      treasure of military history here.

      Lest we forget,

      Lyn Downer
      RNR
    • glifencible
      ... should pay particular attention to the potential loss of one of only 19 VC s awarded to Canadians. There have been 94 Victoria Croses awarded to Canadians.
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 2, 2004
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        >It has been reported in the major dailies, but as reenactors we
        should pay particular attention to the potential loss of one of only
        19 VC's awarded to Canadians.

        There have been 94 Victoria Croses awarded to Canadians.
      • yawors1@uwindsor.ca
        Lyn Downer wrote, we should pay particular attention to the potential loss of one of only 19 VC s awarded to Canadians. Was this 19 in World War 2? Or a
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 2, 2004
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          Lyn Downer wrote, "we should pay particular attention to the
          potential loss of one of only 19 VC's awarded to Canadians."

          Was this 19 in World War 2? Or a typo, as I believe 91 Canadians have won
          the Victoria Cross since its inception? see
          http://www.victoriacross.net/default.asp

          Canada Post has just issued a set of stamps honouring the V.C. in Canada.
          If bought as a sheet, it consists of stamps around the edge, and a central
          panel that lists all recipients. It is most impressive - I'm having a set
          framed for my office, along with a "first day of issue" cover, which also
          is most handsomely done.

          Given the release of the V.C. stamps, and Remembrance Day commemorations
          about to go on, it seems bizarre that the government, perhaps via the
          Canadian War Museum, isn't "leading the charge" and moving aggressively to
          secure this important piece of Canada's military heritage for the nation.

          Jim Yaworsky

          p.s. I was attending a relative's funeral a few years ago in Weston, and
          was surprised to discover his burial plot was in very close proximity to
          Frederick G. Topham's grave. The 'headstone' (a flat plaque) is quite
          modest and understated. Only the initials "V.C." follow his name.
          There is a photo of the headstone on the V.C. internet site, which also
          gives a brief description of the circumstances surrounding the award.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Larry Lozon
          From: Jim Yaworsky Lyn Downer wrote, we should pay particular attention to the potential loss of one of only 19 VC s awarded to
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 2, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            From: "Jim Yaworsky" <yawors1@...>

            Lyn Downer wrote, "we should pay particular attention to the
            potential loss of one of only 19 VC's awarded to Canadians."

            Was this 19 in World War 2? Or a typo, as I believe 91 Canadians have won
            the Victoria Cross since its inception?

            ..................



            Jim et al

            I forwarded the email from "Lyn Downer" because he requested me to do so.
            He is a friend and is sincerely interested in keeping the medals in Canada.

            I did not proof read it for errors or omissions but "Forwarded" it in it's
            entirety for all to see. If there are errors or omissions I suggest
            contacting
            Mr. Lyn Downer at
            lyn.downer@...


            as for Canadian Victoria Cross winners


            http://www.mysteriesofcanada.com/VC_Recipients/vc_recipients.htm
            states:

            Canadian recipients of the VC

            World War Two

            BAZALGETTE, Ian W.
            COSENS, Aubrey
            CURRIE, David Vivian
            FOOTE, John Weir
            GRAY, Robert Hampton
            HOEY, Charles Ferguson
            HORNELL, David Ernest
            MAHONY, John Keefer
            MERRITT, Charles C.I.
            MYNARSKI, Andrew C.
            OSBORN, John Robert
            PETERS, Frederick Thornton
            SMITH, Ernest Alvia (Smokey)
            TILSTON, Frederick Albert
            TOPHAM, Frederick George
            TRIQUET, Paul

            World War I

            ALGIE, Wallace Lloyd
            BARKER, William George
            BARRON, Colin Fraser
            BELLEW, Edward Donald
            BENT, Philip Eric
            BISHOP, William Avery
            BOURKE, Rowland R.L.
            BRERETON, Alexander P.
            BRILLANT, Jean
            BROWN, Harry
            CAIRNS, Hugh
            CAMPBELL, Frederick W.
            CLARKE, Leo
            CLARK-KENNEDY, William. Hew
            COMBE, Robert Grierson
            COPPINS, Frederick G.
            CROAK, John Bernard
            De WIND, Edmund
            DINESEN, Thomas
            FISHER, Frederick
            FLOWERDEW, Gordon M.
            GOOD, Herman James
            GREGG, Milton Fowler
            HALL, Frederick William
            HANNA, Robert
            HARVEY, Frederick M.W.
            HOBSON, Frederick
            HOLMES, Thomas William
            HONEY, Samuel Lewis
            HUTCHESON, Bellenden S.
            KAEBLE, Joseph
            KERR, George Fraser
            KERR, John Chipman
            KINROSS, Cecil John
            KNIGHT, Arthur George KONOWAL, Filip
            LEARMONTH, Okill M.
            LYALL, Graham Thomson
            MacDOWELL, Thain W.
            MacGREGOR, John
            MacKENZIE, Hugh
            McKEAN, George Burdon
            McLEOD, Alan Arnett
            MERRIFIELD, William
            METCALF, William Henry
            MILNE, William Johnstone
            MINER, Harry G.B.
            MITCHELL, Coulson N.
            MULLIN, George Harry
            NUNNEY, Claude J.P.
            O'KELLY, Christopher P.J.
            O'LEARY, Michael
            O'ROURKE, Michael James
            PATTISON, John George
            PEARKES, George Randolph
            PECK, Cyrus Wesley
            RAYFIELD, Walter Leigh
            RICHARDSON, James C.
            RICKETTS, Thomas
            ROBERTSON, James Peter
            RUTHERFORD, Charles S.
            SCRIMGER, Francis A.C.
            SHANKLAND, Robert
            SIFTON, Ellis Wellwood
            SPALL, Robert
            STRACHAN, Harcus
            TAIT, James Edward
            WILKINSON, Thomas O.L.
            YOUNG, Francis
            ZENGEL, Raphael Louis


            The South African (Boer) War

            COCKBURN, Hampden Z.C.
            HOLLAND, Edward J.G.
            RICHARDSON, Arthur H.L.
            TURNER, Richard E.W.


            Prior to the South African War

            DUNN, Alexander Robert
            HALL, William
            READE, Herbert Taylor
            DOUGLAS, Campbell Mellis

            The only VC won on Canadian Soil

            O'HEA, Timothy


            Yrs.,

            L2
          • Camp Chief
            Dear List Can anyone shed light on how this particular medal came to be offered for sale. I have heard one report that it is the family who is offering it
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 2, 2004
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              Dear List



              Can anyone shed light on how this particular medal came to be offered for
              sale.



              I have heard one report that it is the "family" who is offering it for sale
              at $275,000, and that another family member (presumably one without a stake
              or a say) is spurring the move to purchase it for "Canada". If this is
              true, then I think careful examination is required to ensure that the facts
              are correct and that everyone knows them before they make decisions whether
              to donate or not.



              While normally, I would be the first to say that any items like this belong
              in museums, IN Canada, I would be disparaged if it is indeed the family
              themselves that appear to be wanting to sell it "to the highest bidder".



              Can anyone shed light on how it is up for sale? Is $275,000 the "market"
              price of such an item?



              I think I would be interested in hearing some of these details before
              sending off my money.



              David Randle





              -----Original Message-----
              From: Larry Lozon [mailto:lalozon@...]
              Sent: November 2, 2004 9:52 AM
              To: Onelist WarOf1812
              Subject: [WarOf1812] Fw: Victoria Cross




              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Lyn Downer" <lyn.downer@...>
              To: "Larry Lozon" <lalozon@...>
              Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 8:26 AM
              Subject: Victoria Cross


              Larry:

              Perhaps you could let a few people know of the quest to keep Cpl.
              Fred Topham's VC here in Canada. It has been reported in the major
              dailies, but as reenactors we should pay particular attention to the
              potential loss of one of only 19 VC's awarded to Canadians. A challenge
              has been issued via letters to the editor in the Toronto Star to send
              even just $1. to the 1st. Canadian Parachute Battalion to help save the
              VC before Remembrance Day. The address is 1st. Canadian Parachute
              Battalion Museum Trust, The Cpl. Fred Topham VC Fundraising Project, c/o
              The Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 130 Queen St. E. Toronto, Ont., M5A 1R9.
              Hopefully through the efforts of thousands of Canadians we can keep this
              treasure of military history here.

              Lest we forget,

              Lyn Downer
              RNR


              The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
              square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
              square miles...

              Unit Contact information for North America:
              ---------------------------------
              Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

              American Forces Unit Lisiting
              http://usforces1812.tripod.com






              Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



              ADVERTISEMENT

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              orchardbank.com/hcs/hcsapplication?pf=PLApply&media=EMYHNL40F21004SS> click
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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Peter Monahan
              dave Topham died several decades ago. His wife died several years ago, childless and intestate. The relatives apparently wish to sell (rather than donate to
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 2, 2004
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                dave

                Topham died several decades ago. His wife died several years ago, childless and intestate. The relatives apparently wish to sell (rather than donate to a museum) and the executor feels he must sell to satisfy the heirs (and the law, I suspect, if they insist).

                Someone - a British museum? - has offered $300 000 for the group but the law requires that it be offered first to a Canadian buyer and the exceutor has offered it to Canadadians at $275 000. The Cdn War Museum has , apparently, "no acquisitions budget".


                Donations may be sent to a fund being administered by the Queen's Owb Rifles. The exact address can be found by Googling "thestar.com" and "Topham" - it's in one of the letters which were published yesterday. I assume the QOR was his parent unit, as of course he was with 1 Can. Para Bttln when he won the VC at Arnhem. Hope this helps!

                Peter Monahan
                ============================================================
                From: "Camp Chief" <sbfg.cc@...>
                Date: 2004/11/02 Tue AM 11:39:28 EST
                To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: RE: [WarOf1812] Fw: Victoria Cross


                Dear List



                Can anyone shed light on how this particular medal came to be offered for
                sale.



                I have heard one report that it is the "family" who is offering it for sale
                at $275,000, and that another family member (presumably one without a stake
                or a say) is spurring the move to purchase it for "Canada". If this is
                true, then I think careful examination is required to ensure that the facts
                are correct and that everyone knows them before they make decisions whether
                to donate or not.



                While normally, I would be the first to say that any items like this belong
                in museums, IN Canada, I would be disparaged if it is indeed the family
                themselves that appear to be wanting to sell it "to the highest bidder".



                Can anyone shed light on how it is up for sale? Is $275,000 the "market"
                price of such an item?



                I think I would be interested in hearing some of these details before
                sending off my money.



                David Randle





                -----Original Message-----
                From: Larry Lozon [mailto:lalozon@...]
                Sent: November 2, 2004 9:52 AM
                To: Onelist WarOf1812
                Subject: [WarOf1812] Fw: Victoria Cross




                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Lyn Downer" <lyn.downer@...>
                To: "Larry Lozon" <lalozon@...>
                Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 8:26 AM
                Subject: Victoria Cross


                Larry:

                Perhaps you could let a few people know of the quest to keep Cpl.
                Fred Topham's VC here in Canada. It has been reported in the major
                dailies, but as reenactors we should pay particular attention to the
                potential loss of one of only 19 VC's awarded to Canadians. A challenge
                has been issued via letters to the editor in the Toronto Star to send
                even just $1. to the 1st. Canadian Parachute Battalion to help save the
                VC before Remembrance Day. The address is 1st. Canadian Parachute
                Battalion Museum Trust, The Cpl. Fred Topham VC Fundraising Project, c/o
                The Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, 130 Queen St. E. Toronto, Ont., M5A 1R9.
                Hopefully through the efforts of thousands of Canadians we can keep this
                treasure of military history here.

                Lest we forget,

                Lyn Downer
                RNR


                The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                square miles...

                Unit Contact information for North America:
                ---------------------------------
                Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                American Forces Unit Lisiting
                http://usforces1812.tripod.com






                Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



                ADVERTISEMENT

                <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129r6gdrt/M=315388.5543472.6613714.3001176/D=gr
                oups/S=1705020536:HM/EXP=1099493755/A=2372354/R=0/SIG=12id813k2/*https:/www.
                orchardbank.com/hcs/hcsapplication?pf=PLApply&media=EMYHNL40F21004SS> click
                here



                <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=315388.5543472.6613714.3001176/D=groups/S=
                :HM/A=2372354/rand=973366746>



                _____

                Yahoo! Groups Links

                * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/


                * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                <mailto:WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


                * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                Unit Contact information for North America:
                ---------------------------------
                Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                American Forces Unit Lisiting
                http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                Yahoo! Groups Links







                ============================================================
              • Kevin Windsor
                The CWM is still trying to live down its VC gaff of earlier this year where in April 2004 a VC went up for sale that was part of the collection of the CWM. It
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 2, 2004
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                  The CWM is still trying to live down its VC gaff of earlier this year where
                  in April 2004 a VC went up for sale that was part of the collection of the
                  CWM. It was misplaced (?) 31 years ago and ended up at a private auction
                  house. http://www.jeffreyhoare.on.ca/ it turned out to be authentic and
                  returned in August.


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: <yawors1@...>
                  To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 11:13 AM
                  Subject: [WarOf1812] Canadian Victoria Cross winners



                  > Given the release of the V.C. stamps, and Remembrance Day commemorations
                  > about to go on, it seems bizarre that the government, perhaps via the
                  > Canadian War Museum, isn't "leading the charge" and moving aggressively to
                  > secure this important piece of Canada's military heritage for the nation.
                • Kevin Windsor
                  forgot to post a great website http://www.victoriacross.net/default.asp and for those Americans check out William Henry Harrison Seeley. The first American to
                  Message 8 of 11 , Nov 2, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    forgot to post a great website


                    http://www.victoriacross.net/default.asp

                    and for those Americans check out William Henry Harrison Seeley. The first
                    American to win the VC. He served with the Royal Navy.

                    Kevin
                  • Len Heidebrecht
                    Hello all, As the Capt of C Coy 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion Re-enacted, I ve been following this discussion with interest even though we are rather off
                    Message 9 of 11 , Nov 3, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hello all,

                      As the Capt of C Coy 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion Re-enacted,
                      I've been following this discussion with interest even though we are
                      rather off topic.

                      To be honest, fellow re-enactors, veterans and friends of the 1st
                      Canadian Parachute Bn have been aware of the situation and have been
                      organizing a fund for a while since the announcement was made of this
                      pending sale. Veteran and President of the 1 Can Para Association Jan
                      de Vries (Juno Beach Project) and the Queen's Own Rifles of Canada
                      have been heading up this fund.

                      'Toppy' was never a member of the Queen's Own, they happen to be the
                      infantry unit in Toronto with a Jump Company tasking in the Canadian
                      Forces and as such a close association with the Airborne family.

                      The overwhelming sentiment of the family and public has been to keep
                      this medal in Canada and in the public view. That being said, a
                      $300,000 bid has been put forward by a private European source. If
                      that happens the medal set will effectively disappear.

                      Please have a look at the Queen's Own Rifles of Canada website at;
                      http://www.qor.com/ for updates and about your donation, should you
                      choose. I think it's a worthy cause.

                      I would be pleased to continue this discussion off line with anyone
                      who will.

                      Ex Coelis,

                      Len
                    • suthren@magma.ca
                      ... From: Len Heidebrecht To: Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 1:54 PM Subject: [WarOf1812] Topham
                      Message 10 of 11 , Nov 3, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Len Heidebrecht" <lheidebrecht@...>
                        To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 1:54 PM
                        Subject: [WarOf1812] Topham Victoria Cross OT


                        >
                        >
                        > Hello all,
                        >
                        > As the Capt of C Coy 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion Re-enacted,
                        > I've been following this discussion with interest even though we are
                        > rather off topic.
                        >
                        > To be honest, fellow re-enactors, veterans and friends of the 1st
                        > Canadian Parachute Bn have been aware of the situation and have been
                        > organizing a fund for a while since the announcement was made of this
                        > pending sale. Veteran and President of the 1 Can Para Association Jan
                        > de Vries (Juno Beach Project) and the Queen's Own Rifles of Canada
                        > have been heading up this fund.
                        >
                        > 'Toppy' was never a member of the Queen's Own, they happen to be the
                        > infantry unit in Toronto with a Jump Company tasking in the Canadian
                        > Forces and as such a close association with the Airborne family.
                        >
                        > The overwhelming sentiment of the family and public has been to keep
                        > this medal in Canada and in the public view. That being said, a
                        > $300,000 bid has been put forward by a private European source. If
                        > that happens the medal set will effectively disappear.
                        >
                        > Please have a look at the Queen's Own Rifles of Canada website at;
                        > http://www.qor.com/ for updates and about your donation, should you
                        > choose. I think it's a worthy cause.
                        >
                        > I would be pleased to continue this discussion off line with anyone
                        > who will.
                        >
                        > Ex Coelis,
                        >
                        > Len
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                        square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                        square miles...
                        >
                        > Unit Contact information for North America:
                        > ---------------------------------
                        > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                        > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                        >
                        > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                        > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • suthren@magma.ca
                        ... From: Len Heidebrecht To: Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 1:54 PM Subject: [WarOf1812] Topham
                        Message 11 of 11 , Nov 3, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Len Heidebrecht" <lheidebrecht@...>
                          To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 1:54 PM
                          Subject: [WarOf1812] Topham Victoria Cross OT


                          >
                          >
                          > Hello all,
                          >
                          > As the Capt of C Coy 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion Re-enacted,
                          > I've been following this discussion with interest even though we are
                          > rather off topic.
                          >
                          > To be honest, fellow re-enactors, veterans and friends of the 1st
                          > Canadian Parachute Bn have been aware of the situation and have been
                          > organizing a fund for a while since the announcement was made of this
                          > pending sale. Veteran and President of the 1 Can Para Association Jan
                          > de Vries (Juno Beach Project) and the Queen's Own Rifles of Canada
                          > have been heading up this fund.
                          >
                          > 'Toppy' was never a member of the Queen's Own, they happen to be the
                          > infantry unit in Toronto with a Jump Company tasking in the Canadian
                          > Forces and as such a close association with the Airborne family.
                          >
                          > The overwhelming sentiment of the family and public has been to keep
                          > this medal in Canada and in the public view. That being said, a
                          > $300,000 bid has been put forward by a private European source. If
                          > that happens the medal set will effectively disappear.
                          >
                          > Please have a look at the Queen's Own Rifles of Canada website at;
                          > http://www.qor.com/ for updates and about your donation, should you
                          > choose. I think it's a worthy cause.
                          >
                          > I would be pleased to continue this discussion off line with anyone
                          > who will.
                          >
                          > Ex Coelis,
                          >
                          > Len
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                          square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                          square miles...
                          >
                          > Unit Contact information for North America:
                          > ---------------------------------
                          > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                          > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                          >
                          > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                          > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
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