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Re: Esquire

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  • David Lynch
    ... from the legal fraternity all be it that he is a yank? Robert R. White, Esq., Pvt. US Marines aboard Constitution ... Originally, Esquire indicated
    Message 1 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Robert White <whiteesq@y...> wrote:
      > L2 - and when you "talk" with Mr. Monahan could you use a second
      from the legal fraternity all be it that he is a yank? Robert R.
      White, Esq., Pvt. US Marines aboard Constitution
      >

      Originally, "Esquire" indicated one's status as a member of the
      gentry - more than a gentleman, but not a Knight. Younger sons of
      peers not otherwise entitled to use "Lord" (ie, Earls and below),
      eldest sons of Knights, and members of the learned professions would
      be among those entitled to the use of the appellation "Esquire".

      The use of "Esquire" in the legal community is properly reserved for
      use in correspondence from one lawyer to another. One should never,
      however, use the term "Esq." to describe oneself. While I would
      address a letter to John S. Smith, Esq., I would not sign it David
      L. Lynch, Esq. Finally, it was also considered improper for non-
      lawyers to use the term "Esquire" when addressing a lawyer.

      Thus, it would certainly appear that L2, Esq., as younger son of the
      Duke of Dipsidoodle, is perfectly entitled to it!

      Cheers,
      Dave Lynch
      93rd SHRoFLHU
      THE Thin Red Line
    • BritcomHMP@aol.com
      In a message dated 01/11/2004 18:36:56 Central Standard Time, dave8365@aol.com writes: Thus, it would certainly appear that L2, Esq., as younger son of the
      Message 2 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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        In a message dated 01/11/2004 18:36:56 Central Standard Time,
        dave8365@... writes:

        Thus, it would certainly appear that L2, Esq., as younger son of the
        Duke of Dipsidoodle, is perfectly entitled to it!



        Actualy Dave in if Dady were a Duke, with no other title, you would be
        either (depending on circumstance) Lord David or The Honourable David.

        Cheers

        Tim


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Larry Lozon
        Robert R. White, Esq., wrote: L2 .... could you use a second from the legal fraternity .... From: David L. Lynch, Esq. Thus, it would certainly appear that
        Message 3 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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          Robert R. White, Esq., wrote:

          L2 .... could you use a second from the legal fraternity ....

          From: "David L. Lynch, Esq."

          Thus, it would certainly appear that L2, Esq., as younger son of the
          Duke of Dipsidoodle, is perfectly entitled to it!

          -------------

          Mr. David L. Lynch, Esq, who at one tyme did act as my second and friend
          near the Mississinewa River during an affair of honour, Sir, may I
          respectfully
          correct your statement as I was the only son .... thus heir to the Duke!

          You Sir, a Barrister and Solicitor from the State of California I am unaware
          if
          the title 'Yank' will set with you as you are from south of the line
          Messieurs
          Mason and Dixon did scribe.


          Yrs.,

          L2
        • BritcomHMP@aol.com
          In a message dated 01/11/2004 19:07:25 Central Standard Time, lalozon@netrover.com writes: Mr. David L. Lynch, Esq, OOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo Unkle Lar
          Message 4 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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            In a message dated 01/11/2004 19:07:25 Central Standard Time,
            lalozon@... writes:


            Mr. David L. Lynch, Esq,


            OOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo Unkle Lar !!!!!!!!! that is the BIG no no!

            Never ever under any circumstances Mr. & Esquire on the same name at the
            same time!!!

            For shame, you will be eating with your fork in your right hand next :-)!

            Timbo (aka Miss Manners)


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • David Lynch
            ... the ... would be ... David. ... You are ever so right, Tim...in my haste to make a small joke, I meant to say the Earl of Dipsidoodle, rather than Duke of
            Message 5 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, BritcomHMP@a... wrote:
              >
              > In a message dated 01/11/2004 18:36:56 Central Standard Time,
              > dave8365@a... writes:
              >
              > Thus, it would certainly appear that L2, Esq., as younger son of
              the
              > Duke of Dipsidoodle, is perfectly entitled to it!
              >
              >
              >
              > Actualy Dave in if Dady were a Duke, with no other title, you
              would be
              > either (depending on circumstance) Lord David or The Honourable
              David.
              >
              > Cheers
              >
              > Tim
              >
              >


              You are ever so right, Tim...in my haste to make a small joke, I
              meant to say the Earl of Dipsidoodle, rather than Duke of
              Dipsidoodle.

              Oh well...they can't all be gems.

              Vis-a-vis "the honorable"; that was used when referring to a younger
              son in the third person, while first and second person were as Lord
              Larry...yes?

              Well...carry on making your mud pies.

              Dave Lynch
            • David Lynch
              My Dear Mr. Lozon, I would happily second you any time. Even third and fourth you, if required. Timbo having already bopped you upon the head on one count, I
              Message 6 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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                My Dear Mr. Lozon,

                I would happily second you any time. Even third and fourth you, if
                required.

                Timbo having already bopped you upon the head on one count, I shan't
                add to your tweaking, except to say that, as heir to the Duke, you
                would be according one of his lesser courtesy titles - for example,
                the Earl of Wessex will succeed to the Duchy of Edinburgh upon the
                passing of the present Duke.

                I should also hasten to add that, from a Californian's perspective,
                names such as "Yank" and "Mason-Dixon" are only important to that
                overly-fed segment of the Eastern Seaboard who insist on wearing
                drab, ill-fitting uniforms. I bet none of them has ever considered
                purchasing a decent man's corset (not to mention their commission!)

                Cheers,
                David Lynch
                93rd, etc.


                --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Lozon" <lalozon@n...> wrote:
                >
                > Robert R. White, Esq., wrote:
                >
                > L2 .... could you use a second from the legal fraternity ....
                >
                > From: "David L. Lynch, Esq."
                >
                > Thus, it would certainly appear that L2, Esq., as younger son of
                the
                > Duke of Dipsidoodle, is perfectly entitled to it!
                >
                > -------------
                >
                > Mr. David L. Lynch, Esq, who at one tyme did act as my second and
                friend
                > near the Mississinewa River during an affair of honour, Sir, may I
                > respectfully
                > correct your statement as I was the only son .... thus heir to the
                Duke!
                >
                > You Sir, a Barrister and Solicitor from the State of California I
                am unaware
                > if
                > the title 'Yank' will set with you as you are from south of the
                line
                > Messieurs
                > Mason and Dixon did scribe.
                >
                >
                > Yrs.,
                >
                > L2
              • Larry Lozon
                From: OOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo Unkle Lar !!!!!!!!! that is the BIG no no! For shame, you will be eating with your fork in your right hand
                Message 7 of 17 , Nov 2, 2004
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                  From: <BritcomHMP@...>

                  OOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo Unkle Lar !!!!!!!!!
                  that is the BIG no no!

                  For shame, you will be eating with your fork in your right hand next :-)!



                  ------------------------

                  Ny Dear Miss Timbo Manners


                  Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa .......


                  Ora pro nobis


                  Yrs.,
                  L2 ~ PX
                • Larry Lozon
                  From: David Lynch I meant to say the Earl of Dipsidoodle, rather than Duke of Dipsidoodle. ... Or........ was it the Duke of Earl ?!
                  Message 8 of 17 , Nov 2, 2004
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                    From: "David Lynch" <dave8365@...>

                    I meant to say the Earl of Dipsidoodle,
                    rather than Duke of Dipsidoodle.

                    ------------------------

                    Or........


                    was it the 'Duke of Earl' ?! :^)
                  • J.Bruce Whittaker
                    Greetings, I found this regarding the use of Esquire . Enjoy es*quire (noun) [Middle English, from Middle French escuier squire, from Late Latin scutarius,
                    Message 9 of 17 , Nov 2, 2004
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                      Greetings,
                      I found this regarding the use of "Esquire". Enjoy

                      "es*quire (noun)

                      [Middle English, from Middle French escuier squire, from Late Latin
                      scutarius, from Latin scutum shield; akin to Old Irish sciath shield]

                      First appeared 15th Century

                      1 : a member of the English gentry ranking below a knight

                      2 : a candidate for knighthood serving as shield bearer and attendant
                      to a knight

                      3 -- used as a title of courtesy usu. placed in its abbreviated form
                      after the surname

                      4 archaic : a landed proprietor"

                      Now you might ask: what allows one to use this title? Is there a
                      ceremony? Is it conferred by a university? Is it just some
                      affectation that snob-nosed folks use? Can I be Joe Blow, Esq. just
                      because I like the ring to it? Or do I need to get authorization, and
                      if so from what? from where?

                      The answer is that any snob in the world can use the title. In
                      fact, "squire" is a contraction of "esquire." I went to Black's Law
                      Dictionary and they say (5th Ed., p. 489): "In Eng. law, a title of
                      dignity above gentleman and below knight. Also a title of office
                      given to sheriffs, serjeants, and and barristers at law, justices of
                      the peace, and others. In the U.S., title commonly after the name of
                      an attorney; e.g., John J. Jones, Esquire." The entry for Gentleman
                      reads: "In its Engl. origin, this term formerly referred to a man of
                      noble or gentle birth; one belonging to the landed gentry; a man of
                      independent means; all above the rank of Yeomen." (Id. at 618.)
                      Knight means: "In Eng. law, the next personal dignity after the
                      nobility." (Id. at 783.)

                      Now of course in England there's this whole business about hereditary
                      nobility and getting knighted and all that, so it might be a little
                      risky to start calling yourself esquire there. But we're not in
                      England. You can call yourself anything you want here ... although
                      you do take the risk that you will be thought a snooty jerk. Since
                      this has never bothered lawyers, they have gotten into the habit of
                      calling each other esquire. This is a little like elected officials
                      addressing each other as "honorable," which to me seems a classic
                      case of advertising something after it's gone. But I digress.

                      Among lawyers, it's thought pretentious if you signs yourself "Esq."
                      in written communications but you are supposed to dignify other
                      lawyers with the appellation. So a lawyer's letters go out, "Yours
                      very truly, Snidely Whiplash" but the envelope comes back addressed
                      to "Snidely Whiplash, Esq." Also, you never put "Ms." or "Mr." in
                      front of the name when you use "Esq." Still, this is strictly custom,
                      and even if you never saw the inside of a law school there's nothing
                      to prevent you from calling yourself esquire ... except the fact that
                      you might be thought a lawyer.
                    • dancingbobd@webtv.net
                      Especially, they might think you are a lawyer! ;-) Bob Dorian [Just plain Bob]
                      Message 10 of 17 , Nov 2, 2004
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                        Especially, they might think you are a lawyer! ;-)

                        Bob Dorian
                        [Just plain Bob]
                      • Peter Catley
                        ... From: J.Bruce Whittaker [mailto:ortheris@rogers.com] Sent: 02 November 2004 16:17 To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com Subject: [WarOf1812] re: Esquire Greetings,
                        Message 11 of 17 , Nov 2, 2004
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                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: J.Bruce Whittaker [mailto:ortheris@...]
                          Sent: 02 November 2004 16:17
                          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [WarOf1812] re: Esquire




                          Greetings,
                          I found this regarding the use of "Esquire". Enjoy

                          Now you might ask: what allows one to use this title? Is there a
                          ceremony? Is it conferred by a university? Is it just some
                          affectation that snob-nosed folks use? Can I be Joe Blow, Esq. just
                          because I like the ring to it? Or do I need to get authorization, and
                          if so from what? from where?

                          Basically if you fancy it you can use it at least in the UK and I guess
                          Ireland.

                          Now of course in England there's this whole business about hereditary
                          nobility and getting knighted and all that, so it might be a little
                          risky to start calling yourself esquire there. But we're not in
                          England. You can call yourself anything you want here ... although
                          you do take the risk that you will be thought a snooty jerk. Since
                          this has never bothered lawyers, they have gotten into the habit of
                          calling each other esquire. This is a little like elected officials
                          addressing each other as "honorable," which to me seems a classic
                          case of advertising something after it's gone. But I digress.


                          There is no social risk in Britain using the title esquire or esq. it is
                          frequently used in written communications of a formal nature and certainly
                          there is no formal requirement about it although it could be considered a
                          miidle class profressional aspirant snobbish addition :-) Incidently there
                          is no quivalent for women.


                          So cheers

                          Peter Catley esq.


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