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Esquire

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  • Larry Lozon
    From: Robert White L2 - and when you talk with Mr. Monahan could you use a second from the legal fraternity all be it that he is a
    Message 1 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
      From: "Robert White" <whiteesq@...>

      L2 - and when you "talk" with Mr. Monahan
      could you use a second from the legal fraternity all be it that he is a
      yank?




      Mr. White, Esq.,

      Thank you and why Yes Kind Sir, and I have, at times, used
      Barristers
      and Solicitors of the Republic as seconds and friends during duels at the
      green
      near the Mississinewa


      Yrs.,

      L2
    • suthren@magma.ca
      While there is a lot of kidding going on as regards Esquire , please do bear in mind that there is the historical environment of 1812 (wherein whatever term
      Message 2 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
        While there is a lot of kidding going on as regards 'Esquire', please do
        bear in mind that there is the historical environment of 1812 (wherein
        whatever term one used was strictly bound by societal protocol) and the
        modern environment of North America, in which British social stratifications
        and the terminology used to perpetuate them are as irrelevant as those of
        the Japanese. Do let's not confuse the two, chaps.
        Vic Suthren
        Ottawa
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Robert White" <whiteesq@...>
        To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 11:59 AM
        Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Esquire


        >
        > L2 - and when you "talk" with Mr. Monahan could you use a second from the
        legal fraternity all be it that he is a yank? Robert R. White, Esq., Pvt.
        US Marines aboard Constitution
        >
        > Larry Lozon <lalozon@...> wrote:From: "Peter Monahan"
        <petemonahan@...>
        >
        >
        > > Please do not confuse the Squirage with the Peerage!!
        > >
        > > He is definitely already above his "station" in life, DO NOT encourage
        > him,
        > > the Earl of Titchmarsh beggars belief :-)
        > >
        > > Actually, I have that differencing figured out. What truly concerns me
        is
        > the
        > > Lord of London (Ontario, Canada) -"L2" - and his claim that he is
        entitled
        > to use "Esquire".
        > >
        > > It beggars belief that he could be a member of the noble classes, even
        on
        > the wrong side of the blanket and I hesitate > to blacken his character,
        > such as it is, by suggesting that he might be a member of the legal
        > fraternity so... ?
        > -----
        >
        > Mr. Monahan
        >
        > First, I believe the Governor is talking about the Earl of Titchmarsh
        > and not L2
        >
        > Second "L2" is not the Lord of London (Ontario, Canada) I have never
        > lived in London
        >
        > Third, re: a legal fraternity ...... we shall talk .......
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
        square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
        square miles...
        >
        > Unit Contact information for North America:
        > ---------------------------------
        > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
        > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
        >
        > American Forces Unit Lisiting
        > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
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        > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
        square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
        square miles...
        >
        > Unit Contact information for North America:
        > ---------------------------------
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        > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
        >
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      • David Lynch
        ... from the legal fraternity all be it that he is a yank? Robert R. White, Esq., Pvt. US Marines aboard Constitution ... Originally, Esquire indicated
        Message 3 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Robert White <whiteesq@y...> wrote:
          > L2 - and when you "talk" with Mr. Monahan could you use a second
          from the legal fraternity all be it that he is a yank? Robert R.
          White, Esq., Pvt. US Marines aboard Constitution
          >

          Originally, "Esquire" indicated one's status as a member of the
          gentry - more than a gentleman, but not a Knight. Younger sons of
          peers not otherwise entitled to use "Lord" (ie, Earls and below),
          eldest sons of Knights, and members of the learned professions would
          be among those entitled to the use of the appellation "Esquire".

          The use of "Esquire" in the legal community is properly reserved for
          use in correspondence from one lawyer to another. One should never,
          however, use the term "Esq." to describe oneself. While I would
          address a letter to John S. Smith, Esq., I would not sign it David
          L. Lynch, Esq. Finally, it was also considered improper for non-
          lawyers to use the term "Esquire" when addressing a lawyer.

          Thus, it would certainly appear that L2, Esq., as younger son of the
          Duke of Dipsidoodle, is perfectly entitled to it!

          Cheers,
          Dave Lynch
          93rd SHRoFLHU
          THE Thin Red Line
        • BritcomHMP@aol.com
          In a message dated 01/11/2004 18:36:56 Central Standard Time, dave8365@aol.com writes: Thus, it would certainly appear that L2, Esq., as younger son of the
          Message 4 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
            In a message dated 01/11/2004 18:36:56 Central Standard Time,
            dave8365@... writes:

            Thus, it would certainly appear that L2, Esq., as younger son of the
            Duke of Dipsidoodle, is perfectly entitled to it!



            Actualy Dave in if Dady were a Duke, with no other title, you would be
            either (depending on circumstance) Lord David or The Honourable David.

            Cheers

            Tim


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Larry Lozon
            Robert R. White, Esq., wrote: L2 .... could you use a second from the legal fraternity .... From: David L. Lynch, Esq. Thus, it would certainly appear that
            Message 5 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
              Robert R. White, Esq., wrote:

              L2 .... could you use a second from the legal fraternity ....

              From: "David L. Lynch, Esq."

              Thus, it would certainly appear that L2, Esq., as younger son of the
              Duke of Dipsidoodle, is perfectly entitled to it!

              -------------

              Mr. David L. Lynch, Esq, who at one tyme did act as my second and friend
              near the Mississinewa River during an affair of honour, Sir, may I
              respectfully
              correct your statement as I was the only son .... thus heir to the Duke!

              You Sir, a Barrister and Solicitor from the State of California I am unaware
              if
              the title 'Yank' will set with you as you are from south of the line
              Messieurs
              Mason and Dixon did scribe.


              Yrs.,

              L2
            • BritcomHMP@aol.com
              In a message dated 01/11/2004 19:07:25 Central Standard Time, lalozon@netrover.com writes: Mr. David L. Lynch, Esq, OOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo Unkle Lar
              Message 6 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
                In a message dated 01/11/2004 19:07:25 Central Standard Time,
                lalozon@... writes:


                Mr. David L. Lynch, Esq,


                OOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo Unkle Lar !!!!!!!!! that is the BIG no no!

                Never ever under any circumstances Mr. & Esquire on the same name at the
                same time!!!

                For shame, you will be eating with your fork in your right hand next :-)!

                Timbo (aka Miss Manners)


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • David Lynch
                ... the ... would be ... David. ... You are ever so right, Tim...in my haste to make a small joke, I meant to say the Earl of Dipsidoodle, rather than Duke of
                Message 7 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
                  --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, BritcomHMP@a... wrote:
                  >
                  > In a message dated 01/11/2004 18:36:56 Central Standard Time,
                  > dave8365@a... writes:
                  >
                  > Thus, it would certainly appear that L2, Esq., as younger son of
                  the
                  > Duke of Dipsidoodle, is perfectly entitled to it!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Actualy Dave in if Dady were a Duke, with no other title, you
                  would be
                  > either (depending on circumstance) Lord David or The Honourable
                  David.
                  >
                  > Cheers
                  >
                  > Tim
                  >
                  >


                  You are ever so right, Tim...in my haste to make a small joke, I
                  meant to say the Earl of Dipsidoodle, rather than Duke of
                  Dipsidoodle.

                  Oh well...they can't all be gems.

                  Vis-a-vis "the honorable"; that was used when referring to a younger
                  son in the third person, while first and second person were as Lord
                  Larry...yes?

                  Well...carry on making your mud pies.

                  Dave Lynch
                • David Lynch
                  My Dear Mr. Lozon, I would happily second you any time. Even third and fourth you, if required. Timbo having already bopped you upon the head on one count, I
                  Message 8 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
                    My Dear Mr. Lozon,

                    I would happily second you any time. Even third and fourth you, if
                    required.

                    Timbo having already bopped you upon the head on one count, I shan't
                    add to your tweaking, except to say that, as heir to the Duke, you
                    would be according one of his lesser courtesy titles - for example,
                    the Earl of Wessex will succeed to the Duchy of Edinburgh upon the
                    passing of the present Duke.

                    I should also hasten to add that, from a Californian's perspective,
                    names such as "Yank" and "Mason-Dixon" are only important to that
                    overly-fed segment of the Eastern Seaboard who insist on wearing
                    drab, ill-fitting uniforms. I bet none of them has ever considered
                    purchasing a decent man's corset (not to mention their commission!)

                    Cheers,
                    David Lynch
                    93rd, etc.


                    --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Lozon" <lalozon@n...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Robert R. White, Esq., wrote:
                    >
                    > L2 .... could you use a second from the legal fraternity ....
                    >
                    > From: "David L. Lynch, Esq."
                    >
                    > Thus, it would certainly appear that L2, Esq., as younger son of
                    the
                    > Duke of Dipsidoodle, is perfectly entitled to it!
                    >
                    > -------------
                    >
                    > Mr. David L. Lynch, Esq, who at one tyme did act as my second and
                    friend
                    > near the Mississinewa River during an affair of honour, Sir, may I
                    > respectfully
                    > correct your statement as I was the only son .... thus heir to the
                    Duke!
                    >
                    > You Sir, a Barrister and Solicitor from the State of California I
                    am unaware
                    > if
                    > the title 'Yank' will set with you as you are from south of the
                    line
                    > Messieurs
                    > Mason and Dixon did scribe.
                    >
                    >
                    > Yrs.,
                    >
                    > L2
                  • Larry Lozon
                    From: OOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo Unkle Lar !!!!!!!!! that is the BIG no no! For shame, you will be eating with your fork in your right hand
                    Message 9 of 17 , Nov 2, 2004
                      From: <BritcomHMP@...>

                      OOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo Unkle Lar !!!!!!!!!
                      that is the BIG no no!

                      For shame, you will be eating with your fork in your right hand next :-)!



                      ------------------------

                      Ny Dear Miss Timbo Manners


                      Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa .......


                      Ora pro nobis


                      Yrs.,
                      L2 ~ PX
                    • Larry Lozon
                      From: David Lynch I meant to say the Earl of Dipsidoodle, rather than Duke of Dipsidoodle. ... Or........ was it the Duke of Earl ?!
                      Message 10 of 17 , Nov 2, 2004
                        From: "David Lynch" <dave8365@...>

                        I meant to say the Earl of Dipsidoodle,
                        rather than Duke of Dipsidoodle.

                        ------------------------

                        Or........


                        was it the 'Duke of Earl' ?! :^)
                      • J.Bruce Whittaker
                        Greetings, I found this regarding the use of Esquire . Enjoy es*quire (noun) [Middle English, from Middle French escuier squire, from Late Latin scutarius,
                        Message 11 of 17 , Nov 2, 2004
                          Greetings,
                          I found this regarding the use of "Esquire". Enjoy

                          "es*quire (noun)

                          [Middle English, from Middle French escuier squire, from Late Latin
                          scutarius, from Latin scutum shield; akin to Old Irish sciath shield]

                          First appeared 15th Century

                          1 : a member of the English gentry ranking below a knight

                          2 : a candidate for knighthood serving as shield bearer and attendant
                          to a knight

                          3 -- used as a title of courtesy usu. placed in its abbreviated form
                          after the surname

                          4 archaic : a landed proprietor"

                          Now you might ask: what allows one to use this title? Is there a
                          ceremony? Is it conferred by a university? Is it just some
                          affectation that snob-nosed folks use? Can I be Joe Blow, Esq. just
                          because I like the ring to it? Or do I need to get authorization, and
                          if so from what? from where?

                          The answer is that any snob in the world can use the title. In
                          fact, "squire" is a contraction of "esquire." I went to Black's Law
                          Dictionary and they say (5th Ed., p. 489): "In Eng. law, a title of
                          dignity above gentleman and below knight. Also a title of office
                          given to sheriffs, serjeants, and and barristers at law, justices of
                          the peace, and others. In the U.S., title commonly after the name of
                          an attorney; e.g., John J. Jones, Esquire." The entry for Gentleman
                          reads: "In its Engl. origin, this term formerly referred to a man of
                          noble or gentle birth; one belonging to the landed gentry; a man of
                          independent means; all above the rank of Yeomen." (Id. at 618.)
                          Knight means: "In Eng. law, the next personal dignity after the
                          nobility." (Id. at 783.)

                          Now of course in England there's this whole business about hereditary
                          nobility and getting knighted and all that, so it might be a little
                          risky to start calling yourself esquire there. But we're not in
                          England. You can call yourself anything you want here ... although
                          you do take the risk that you will be thought a snooty jerk. Since
                          this has never bothered lawyers, they have gotten into the habit of
                          calling each other esquire. This is a little like elected officials
                          addressing each other as "honorable," which to me seems a classic
                          case of advertising something after it's gone. But I digress.

                          Among lawyers, it's thought pretentious if you signs yourself "Esq."
                          in written communications but you are supposed to dignify other
                          lawyers with the appellation. So a lawyer's letters go out, "Yours
                          very truly, Snidely Whiplash" but the envelope comes back addressed
                          to "Snidely Whiplash, Esq." Also, you never put "Ms." or "Mr." in
                          front of the name when you use "Esq." Still, this is strictly custom,
                          and even if you never saw the inside of a law school there's nothing
                          to prevent you from calling yourself esquire ... except the fact that
                          you might be thought a lawyer.
                        • dancingbobd@webtv.net
                          Especially, they might think you are a lawyer! ;-) Bob Dorian [Just plain Bob]
                          Message 12 of 17 , Nov 2, 2004
                            Especially, they might think you are a lawyer! ;-)

                            Bob Dorian
                            [Just plain Bob]
                          • Peter Catley
                            ... From: J.Bruce Whittaker [mailto:ortheris@rogers.com] Sent: 02 November 2004 16:17 To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com Subject: [WarOf1812] re: Esquire Greetings,
                            Message 13 of 17 , Nov 2, 2004
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: J.Bruce Whittaker [mailto:ortheris@...]
                              Sent: 02 November 2004 16:17
                              To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [WarOf1812] re: Esquire




                              Greetings,
                              I found this regarding the use of "Esquire". Enjoy

                              Now you might ask: what allows one to use this title? Is there a
                              ceremony? Is it conferred by a university? Is it just some
                              affectation that snob-nosed folks use? Can I be Joe Blow, Esq. just
                              because I like the ring to it? Or do I need to get authorization, and
                              if so from what? from where?

                              Basically if you fancy it you can use it at least in the UK and I guess
                              Ireland.

                              Now of course in England there's this whole business about hereditary
                              nobility and getting knighted and all that, so it might be a little
                              risky to start calling yourself esquire there. But we're not in
                              England. You can call yourself anything you want here ... although
                              you do take the risk that you will be thought a snooty jerk. Since
                              this has never bothered lawyers, they have gotten into the habit of
                              calling each other esquire. This is a little like elected officials
                              addressing each other as "honorable," which to me seems a classic
                              case of advertising something after it's gone. But I digress.


                              There is no social risk in Britain using the title esquire or esq. it is
                              frequently used in written communications of a formal nature and certainly
                              there is no formal requirement about it although it could be considered a
                              miidle class profressional aspirant snobbish addition :-) Incidently there
                              is no quivalent for women.


                              So cheers

                              Peter Catley esq.


                              The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                              square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                              square miles...

                              Unit Contact information for North America:
                              ---------------------------------
                              Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                              http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                              American Forces Unit Lisiting
                              http://usforces1812.tripod.com



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