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Re: [WarOf1812] Esquire

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  • Doc Walsh
    PISTOLS AT DAWN?????? OOOOO....BUSINESS IS LOOKING UP!!!!!! Doc Walsh {Esquire}????? 1st/95th rifles {u.k} captain-surgeon and friend of Mr Catley ... Outgoing
    Message 1 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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      PISTOLS AT DAWN??????
      OOOOO....BUSINESS IS LOOKING UP!!!!!!
      Doc Walsh {Esquire}?????
      1st/95th rifles {u.k}
      captain-surgeon and friend of Mr Catley


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    • Robert White
      L2 - and when you talk with Mr. Monahan could you use a second from the legal fraternity all be it that he is a yank? Robert R. White, Esq., Pvt. US Marines
      Message 2 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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        L2 - and when you "talk" with Mr. Monahan could you use a second from the legal fraternity all be it that he is a yank? Robert R. White, Esq., Pvt. US Marines aboard Constitution

        Larry Lozon <lalozon@...> wrote:From: "Peter Monahan" <petemonahan@...>


        > Please do not confuse the Squirage with the Peerage!!
        >
        > He is definitely already above his "station" in life, DO NOT encourage
        him,
        > the Earl of Titchmarsh beggars belief :-)
        >
        > Actually, I have that differencing figured out. What truly concerns me is
        the
        > Lord of London (Ontario, Canada) -"L2" - and his claim that he is entitled
        to use "Esquire".
        >
        > It beggars belief that he could be a member of the noble classes, even on
        the wrong side of the blanket and I hesitate > to blacken his character,
        such as it is, by suggesting that he might be a member of the legal
        fraternity so... ?
        -----

        Mr. Monahan

        First, I believe the Governor is talking about the Earl of Titchmarsh
        and not L2

        Second "L2" is not the Lord of London (Ontario, Canada) I have never
        lived in London

        Third, re: a legal fraternity ...... we shall talk .......









        The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

        Unit Contact information for North America:
        ---------------------------------
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        http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

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      • Larry Lozon
        From: Doc Walsh PISTOLS AT DAWN?????? OOOOO....BUSINESS IS LOOKING UP!!!!!! Doc Walsh {Esquire}????? 1st/95th rifles {u.k}
        Message 3 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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          From: "Doc Walsh" <docwaterloo@...>



          PISTOLS AT DAWN??????
          OOOOO....BUSINESS IS LOOKING UP!!!!!!
          Doc Walsh {Esquire}?????
          1st/95th rifles {u.k}
          captain-surgeon and friend of Mr Catley


          ------------------------

          As also a friend of Mr Catley

          Shall you swim the pond and attend me Sir,
          as your Surgeon business?

          Yrs.,

          L2
        • Larry Lozon
          From: Robert White L2 - and when you talk with Mr. Monahan could you use a second from the legal fraternity all be it that he is a
          Message 4 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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            From: "Robert White" <whiteesq@...>

            L2 - and when you "talk" with Mr. Monahan
            could you use a second from the legal fraternity all be it that he is a
            yank?




            Mr. White, Esq.,

            Thank you and why Yes Kind Sir, and I have, at times, used
            Barristers
            and Solicitors of the Republic as seconds and friends during duels at the
            green
            near the Mississinewa


            Yrs.,

            L2
          • suthren@magma.ca
            While there is a lot of kidding going on as regards Esquire , please do bear in mind that there is the historical environment of 1812 (wherein whatever term
            Message 5 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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              While there is a lot of kidding going on as regards 'Esquire', please do
              bear in mind that there is the historical environment of 1812 (wherein
              whatever term one used was strictly bound by societal protocol) and the
              modern environment of North America, in which British social stratifications
              and the terminology used to perpetuate them are as irrelevant as those of
              the Japanese. Do let's not confuse the two, chaps.
              Vic Suthren
              Ottawa
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Robert White" <whiteesq@...>
              To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 11:59 AM
              Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Esquire


              >
              > L2 - and when you "talk" with Mr. Monahan could you use a second from the
              legal fraternity all be it that he is a yank? Robert R. White, Esq., Pvt.
              US Marines aboard Constitution
              >
              > Larry Lozon <lalozon@...> wrote:From: "Peter Monahan"
              <petemonahan@...>
              >
              >
              > > Please do not confuse the Squirage with the Peerage!!
              > >
              > > He is definitely already above his "station" in life, DO NOT encourage
              > him,
              > > the Earl of Titchmarsh beggars belief :-)
              > >
              > > Actually, I have that differencing figured out. What truly concerns me
              is
              > the
              > > Lord of London (Ontario, Canada) -"L2" - and his claim that he is
              entitled
              > to use "Esquire".
              > >
              > > It beggars belief that he could be a member of the noble classes, even
              on
              > the wrong side of the blanket and I hesitate > to blacken his character,
              > such as it is, by suggesting that he might be a member of the legal
              > fraternity so... ?
              > -----
              >
              > Mr. Monahan
              >
              > First, I believe the Governor is talking about the Earl of Titchmarsh
              > and not L2
              >
              > Second "L2" is not the Lord of London (Ontario, Canada) I have never
              > lived in London
              >
              > Third, re: a legal fraternity ...... we shall talk .......
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
              square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
              square miles...
              >
              > Unit Contact information for North America:
              > ---------------------------------
              > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              >
              > American Forces Unit Lisiting
              > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > Get unlimited calls to
              >
              > U.S./Canada
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
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              >
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              >
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              >
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              > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
              square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
              square miles...
              >
              > Unit Contact information for North America:
              > ---------------------------------
              > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              >
              > American Forces Unit Lisiting
              > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • David Lynch
              ... from the legal fraternity all be it that he is a yank? Robert R. White, Esq., Pvt. US Marines aboard Constitution ... Originally, Esquire indicated
              Message 6 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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                --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Robert White <whiteesq@y...> wrote:
                > L2 - and when you "talk" with Mr. Monahan could you use a second
                from the legal fraternity all be it that he is a yank? Robert R.
                White, Esq., Pvt. US Marines aboard Constitution
                >

                Originally, "Esquire" indicated one's status as a member of the
                gentry - more than a gentleman, but not a Knight. Younger sons of
                peers not otherwise entitled to use "Lord" (ie, Earls and below),
                eldest sons of Knights, and members of the learned professions would
                be among those entitled to the use of the appellation "Esquire".

                The use of "Esquire" in the legal community is properly reserved for
                use in correspondence from one lawyer to another. One should never,
                however, use the term "Esq." to describe oneself. While I would
                address a letter to John S. Smith, Esq., I would not sign it David
                L. Lynch, Esq. Finally, it was also considered improper for non-
                lawyers to use the term "Esquire" when addressing a lawyer.

                Thus, it would certainly appear that L2, Esq., as younger son of the
                Duke of Dipsidoodle, is perfectly entitled to it!

                Cheers,
                Dave Lynch
                93rd SHRoFLHU
                THE Thin Red Line
              • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                In a message dated 01/11/2004 18:36:56 Central Standard Time, dave8365@aol.com writes: Thus, it would certainly appear that L2, Esq., as younger son of the
                Message 7 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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                  In a message dated 01/11/2004 18:36:56 Central Standard Time,
                  dave8365@... writes:

                  Thus, it would certainly appear that L2, Esq., as younger son of the
                  Duke of Dipsidoodle, is perfectly entitled to it!



                  Actualy Dave in if Dady were a Duke, with no other title, you would be
                  either (depending on circumstance) Lord David or The Honourable David.

                  Cheers

                  Tim


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Larry Lozon
                  Robert R. White, Esq., wrote: L2 .... could you use a second from the legal fraternity .... From: David L. Lynch, Esq. Thus, it would certainly appear that
                  Message 8 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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                    Robert R. White, Esq., wrote:

                    L2 .... could you use a second from the legal fraternity ....

                    From: "David L. Lynch, Esq."

                    Thus, it would certainly appear that L2, Esq., as younger son of the
                    Duke of Dipsidoodle, is perfectly entitled to it!

                    -------------

                    Mr. David L. Lynch, Esq, who at one tyme did act as my second and friend
                    near the Mississinewa River during an affair of honour, Sir, may I
                    respectfully
                    correct your statement as I was the only son .... thus heir to the Duke!

                    You Sir, a Barrister and Solicitor from the State of California I am unaware
                    if
                    the title 'Yank' will set with you as you are from south of the line
                    Messieurs
                    Mason and Dixon did scribe.


                    Yrs.,

                    L2
                  • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                    In a message dated 01/11/2004 19:07:25 Central Standard Time, lalozon@netrover.com writes: Mr. David L. Lynch, Esq, OOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo Unkle Lar
                    Message 9 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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                      In a message dated 01/11/2004 19:07:25 Central Standard Time,
                      lalozon@... writes:


                      Mr. David L. Lynch, Esq,


                      OOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo Unkle Lar !!!!!!!!! that is the BIG no no!

                      Never ever under any circumstances Mr. & Esquire on the same name at the
                      same time!!!

                      For shame, you will be eating with your fork in your right hand next :-)!

                      Timbo (aka Miss Manners)


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • David Lynch
                      ... the ... would be ... David. ... You are ever so right, Tim...in my haste to make a small joke, I meant to say the Earl of Dipsidoodle, rather than Duke of
                      Message 10 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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                        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, BritcomHMP@a... wrote:
                        >
                        > In a message dated 01/11/2004 18:36:56 Central Standard Time,
                        > dave8365@a... writes:
                        >
                        > Thus, it would certainly appear that L2, Esq., as younger son of
                        the
                        > Duke of Dipsidoodle, is perfectly entitled to it!
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Actualy Dave in if Dady were a Duke, with no other title, you
                        would be
                        > either (depending on circumstance) Lord David or The Honourable
                        David.
                        >
                        > Cheers
                        >
                        > Tim
                        >
                        >


                        You are ever so right, Tim...in my haste to make a small joke, I
                        meant to say the Earl of Dipsidoodle, rather than Duke of
                        Dipsidoodle.

                        Oh well...they can't all be gems.

                        Vis-a-vis "the honorable"; that was used when referring to a younger
                        son in the third person, while first and second person were as Lord
                        Larry...yes?

                        Well...carry on making your mud pies.

                        Dave Lynch
                      • David Lynch
                        My Dear Mr. Lozon, I would happily second you any time. Even third and fourth you, if required. Timbo having already bopped you upon the head on one count, I
                        Message 11 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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                          My Dear Mr. Lozon,

                          I would happily second you any time. Even third and fourth you, if
                          required.

                          Timbo having already bopped you upon the head on one count, I shan't
                          add to your tweaking, except to say that, as heir to the Duke, you
                          would be according one of his lesser courtesy titles - for example,
                          the Earl of Wessex will succeed to the Duchy of Edinburgh upon the
                          passing of the present Duke.

                          I should also hasten to add that, from a Californian's perspective,
                          names such as "Yank" and "Mason-Dixon" are only important to that
                          overly-fed segment of the Eastern Seaboard who insist on wearing
                          drab, ill-fitting uniforms. I bet none of them has ever considered
                          purchasing a decent man's corset (not to mention their commission!)

                          Cheers,
                          David Lynch
                          93rd, etc.


                          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Lozon" <lalozon@n...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Robert R. White, Esq., wrote:
                          >
                          > L2 .... could you use a second from the legal fraternity ....
                          >
                          > From: "David L. Lynch, Esq."
                          >
                          > Thus, it would certainly appear that L2, Esq., as younger son of
                          the
                          > Duke of Dipsidoodle, is perfectly entitled to it!
                          >
                          > -------------
                          >
                          > Mr. David L. Lynch, Esq, who at one tyme did act as my second and
                          friend
                          > near the Mississinewa River during an affair of honour, Sir, may I
                          > respectfully
                          > correct your statement as I was the only son .... thus heir to the
                          Duke!
                          >
                          > You Sir, a Barrister and Solicitor from the State of California I
                          am unaware
                          > if
                          > the title 'Yank' will set with you as you are from south of the
                          line
                          > Messieurs
                          > Mason and Dixon did scribe.
                          >
                          >
                          > Yrs.,
                          >
                          > L2
                        • Larry Lozon
                          From: OOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo Unkle Lar !!!!!!!!! that is the BIG no no! For shame, you will be eating with your fork in your right hand
                          Message 12 of 17 , Nov 2, 2004
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                            From: <BritcomHMP@...>

                            OOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo Unkle Lar !!!!!!!!!
                            that is the BIG no no!

                            For shame, you will be eating with your fork in your right hand next :-)!



                            ------------------------

                            Ny Dear Miss Timbo Manners


                            Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa .......


                            Ora pro nobis


                            Yrs.,
                            L2 ~ PX
                          • Larry Lozon
                            From: David Lynch I meant to say the Earl of Dipsidoodle, rather than Duke of Dipsidoodle. ... Or........ was it the Duke of Earl ?!
                            Message 13 of 17 , Nov 2, 2004
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                              From: "David Lynch" <dave8365@...>

                              I meant to say the Earl of Dipsidoodle,
                              rather than Duke of Dipsidoodle.

                              ------------------------

                              Or........


                              was it the 'Duke of Earl' ?! :^)
                            • J.Bruce Whittaker
                              Greetings, I found this regarding the use of Esquire . Enjoy es*quire (noun) [Middle English, from Middle French escuier squire, from Late Latin scutarius,
                              Message 14 of 17 , Nov 2, 2004
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                                Greetings,
                                I found this regarding the use of "Esquire". Enjoy

                                "es*quire (noun)

                                [Middle English, from Middle French escuier squire, from Late Latin
                                scutarius, from Latin scutum shield; akin to Old Irish sciath shield]

                                First appeared 15th Century

                                1 : a member of the English gentry ranking below a knight

                                2 : a candidate for knighthood serving as shield bearer and attendant
                                to a knight

                                3 -- used as a title of courtesy usu. placed in its abbreviated form
                                after the surname

                                4 archaic : a landed proprietor"

                                Now you might ask: what allows one to use this title? Is there a
                                ceremony? Is it conferred by a university? Is it just some
                                affectation that snob-nosed folks use? Can I be Joe Blow, Esq. just
                                because I like the ring to it? Or do I need to get authorization, and
                                if so from what? from where?

                                The answer is that any snob in the world can use the title. In
                                fact, "squire" is a contraction of "esquire." I went to Black's Law
                                Dictionary and they say (5th Ed., p. 489): "In Eng. law, a title of
                                dignity above gentleman and below knight. Also a title of office
                                given to sheriffs, serjeants, and and barristers at law, justices of
                                the peace, and others. In the U.S., title commonly after the name of
                                an attorney; e.g., John J. Jones, Esquire." The entry for Gentleman
                                reads: "In its Engl. origin, this term formerly referred to a man of
                                noble or gentle birth; one belonging to the landed gentry; a man of
                                independent means; all above the rank of Yeomen." (Id. at 618.)
                                Knight means: "In Eng. law, the next personal dignity after the
                                nobility." (Id. at 783.)

                                Now of course in England there's this whole business about hereditary
                                nobility and getting knighted and all that, so it might be a little
                                risky to start calling yourself esquire there. But we're not in
                                England. You can call yourself anything you want here ... although
                                you do take the risk that you will be thought a snooty jerk. Since
                                this has never bothered lawyers, they have gotten into the habit of
                                calling each other esquire. This is a little like elected officials
                                addressing each other as "honorable," which to me seems a classic
                                case of advertising something after it's gone. But I digress.

                                Among lawyers, it's thought pretentious if you signs yourself "Esq."
                                in written communications but you are supposed to dignify other
                                lawyers with the appellation. So a lawyer's letters go out, "Yours
                                very truly, Snidely Whiplash" but the envelope comes back addressed
                                to "Snidely Whiplash, Esq." Also, you never put "Ms." or "Mr." in
                                front of the name when you use "Esq." Still, this is strictly custom,
                                and even if you never saw the inside of a law school there's nothing
                                to prevent you from calling yourself esquire ... except the fact that
                                you might be thought a lawyer.
                              • dancingbobd@webtv.net
                                Especially, they might think you are a lawyer! ;-) Bob Dorian [Just plain Bob]
                                Message 15 of 17 , Nov 2, 2004
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                                  Especially, they might think you are a lawyer! ;-)

                                  Bob Dorian
                                  [Just plain Bob]
                                • Peter Catley
                                  ... From: J.Bruce Whittaker [mailto:ortheris@rogers.com] Sent: 02 November 2004 16:17 To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com Subject: [WarOf1812] re: Esquire Greetings,
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Nov 2, 2004
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                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: J.Bruce Whittaker [mailto:ortheris@...]
                                    Sent: 02 November 2004 16:17
                                    To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [WarOf1812] re: Esquire




                                    Greetings,
                                    I found this regarding the use of "Esquire". Enjoy

                                    Now you might ask: what allows one to use this title? Is there a
                                    ceremony? Is it conferred by a university? Is it just some
                                    affectation that snob-nosed folks use? Can I be Joe Blow, Esq. just
                                    because I like the ring to it? Or do I need to get authorization, and
                                    if so from what? from where?

                                    Basically if you fancy it you can use it at least in the UK and I guess
                                    Ireland.

                                    Now of course in England there's this whole business about hereditary
                                    nobility and getting knighted and all that, so it might be a little
                                    risky to start calling yourself esquire there. But we're not in
                                    England. You can call yourself anything you want here ... although
                                    you do take the risk that you will be thought a snooty jerk. Since
                                    this has never bothered lawyers, they have gotten into the habit of
                                    calling each other esquire. This is a little like elected officials
                                    addressing each other as "honorable," which to me seems a classic
                                    case of advertising something after it's gone. But I digress.


                                    There is no social risk in Britain using the title esquire or esq. it is
                                    frequently used in written communications of a formal nature and certainly
                                    there is no formal requirement about it although it could be considered a
                                    miidle class profressional aspirant snobbish addition :-) Incidently there
                                    is no quivalent for women.


                                    So cheers

                                    Peter Catley esq.


                                    The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                                    square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                                    square miles...

                                    Unit Contact information for North America:
                                    ---------------------------------
                                    Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                                    http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                                    American Forces Unit Lisiting
                                    http://usforces1812.tripod.com



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