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Esquire

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  • Larry Lozon
    From: Peter Monahan ... him, ... the ... to use Esquire . ... the wrong side of the blanket and I hesitate to blacken his
    Message 1 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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      From: "Peter Monahan" <petemonahan@...>


      > Please do not confuse the Squirage with the Peerage!!
      >
      > He is definitely already above his "station" in life, DO NOT encourage
      him,
      > the Earl of Titchmarsh beggars belief :-)
      >
      > Actually, I have that differencing figured out. What truly concerns me is
      the
      > Lord of London (Ontario, Canada) -"L2" - and his claim that he is entitled
      to use "Esquire".
      >
      > It beggars belief that he could be a member of the noble classes, even on
      the wrong side of the blanket and I hesitate > to blacken his character,
      such as it is, by suggesting that he might be a member of the legal
      fraternity so... ?
      -----

      Mr. Monahan

      First, I believe the Governor is talking about the Earl of Titchmarsh
      and not L2

      Second "L2" is not the Lord of London (Ontario, Canada) I have never
      lived in London

      Third, re: a legal fraternity ...... we shall talk .......
    • Doc Walsh
      PISTOLS AT DAWN?????? OOOOO....BUSINESS IS LOOKING UP!!!!!! Doc Walsh {Esquire}????? 1st/95th rifles {u.k} captain-surgeon and friend of Mr Catley ... Outgoing
      Message 2 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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        PISTOLS AT DAWN??????
        OOOOO....BUSINESS IS LOOKING UP!!!!!!
        Doc Walsh {Esquire}?????
        1st/95th rifles {u.k}
        captain-surgeon and friend of Mr Catley


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        Version: 6.0.782 / Virus Database: 528 - Release Date: 22/10/2004


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      • Robert White
        L2 - and when you talk with Mr. Monahan could you use a second from the legal fraternity all be it that he is a yank? Robert R. White, Esq., Pvt. US Marines
        Message 3 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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          L2 - and when you "talk" with Mr. Monahan could you use a second from the legal fraternity all be it that he is a yank? Robert R. White, Esq., Pvt. US Marines aboard Constitution

          Larry Lozon <lalozon@...> wrote:From: "Peter Monahan" <petemonahan@...>


          > Please do not confuse the Squirage with the Peerage!!
          >
          > He is definitely already above his "station" in life, DO NOT encourage
          him,
          > the Earl of Titchmarsh beggars belief :-)
          >
          > Actually, I have that differencing figured out. What truly concerns me is
          the
          > Lord of London (Ontario, Canada) -"L2" - and his claim that he is entitled
          to use "Esquire".
          >
          > It beggars belief that he could be a member of the noble classes, even on
          the wrong side of the blanket and I hesitate > to blacken his character,
          such as it is, by suggesting that he might be a member of the legal
          fraternity so... ?
          -----

          Mr. Monahan

          First, I believe the Governor is talking about the Earl of Titchmarsh
          and not L2

          Second "L2" is not the Lord of London (Ontario, Canada) I have never
          lived in London

          Third, re: a legal fraternity ...... we shall talk .......









          The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

          Unit Contact information for North America:
          ---------------------------------
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          http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

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        • Larry Lozon
          From: Doc Walsh PISTOLS AT DAWN?????? OOOOO....BUSINESS IS LOOKING UP!!!!!! Doc Walsh {Esquire}????? 1st/95th rifles {u.k}
          Message 4 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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            From: "Doc Walsh" <docwaterloo@...>



            PISTOLS AT DAWN??????
            OOOOO....BUSINESS IS LOOKING UP!!!!!!
            Doc Walsh {Esquire}?????
            1st/95th rifles {u.k}
            captain-surgeon and friend of Mr Catley


            ------------------------

            As also a friend of Mr Catley

            Shall you swim the pond and attend me Sir,
            as your Surgeon business?

            Yrs.,

            L2
          • Larry Lozon
            From: Robert White L2 - and when you talk with Mr. Monahan could you use a second from the legal fraternity all be it that he is a
            Message 5 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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              From: "Robert White" <whiteesq@...>

              L2 - and when you "talk" with Mr. Monahan
              could you use a second from the legal fraternity all be it that he is a
              yank?




              Mr. White, Esq.,

              Thank you and why Yes Kind Sir, and I have, at times, used
              Barristers
              and Solicitors of the Republic as seconds and friends during duels at the
              green
              near the Mississinewa


              Yrs.,

              L2
            • suthren@magma.ca
              While there is a lot of kidding going on as regards Esquire , please do bear in mind that there is the historical environment of 1812 (wherein whatever term
              Message 6 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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                While there is a lot of kidding going on as regards 'Esquire', please do
                bear in mind that there is the historical environment of 1812 (wherein
                whatever term one used was strictly bound by societal protocol) and the
                modern environment of North America, in which British social stratifications
                and the terminology used to perpetuate them are as irrelevant as those of
                the Japanese. Do let's not confuse the two, chaps.
                Vic Suthren
                Ottawa
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Robert White" <whiteesq@...>
                To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 11:59 AM
                Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Esquire


                >
                > L2 - and when you "talk" with Mr. Monahan could you use a second from the
                legal fraternity all be it that he is a yank? Robert R. White, Esq., Pvt.
                US Marines aboard Constitution
                >
                > Larry Lozon <lalozon@...> wrote:From: "Peter Monahan"
                <petemonahan@...>
                >
                >
                > > Please do not confuse the Squirage with the Peerage!!
                > >
                > > He is definitely already above his "station" in life, DO NOT encourage
                > him,
                > > the Earl of Titchmarsh beggars belief :-)
                > >
                > > Actually, I have that differencing figured out. What truly concerns me
                is
                > the
                > > Lord of London (Ontario, Canada) -"L2" - and his claim that he is
                entitled
                > to use "Esquire".
                > >
                > > It beggars belief that he could be a member of the noble classes, even
                on
                > the wrong side of the blanket and I hesitate > to blacken his character,
                > such as it is, by suggesting that he might be a member of the legal
                > fraternity so... ?
                > -----
                >
                > Mr. Monahan
                >
                > First, I believe the Governor is talking about the Earl of Titchmarsh
                > and not L2
                >
                > Second "L2" is not the Lord of London (Ontario, Canada) I have never
                > lived in London
                >
                > Third, re: a legal fraternity ...... we shall talk .......
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                square miles...
                >
                > Unit Contact information for North America:
                > ---------------------------------
                > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                >
                > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > Get unlimited calls to
                >
                > U.S./Canada
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
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                >
                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                >
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                >
                >
                >
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                > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                square miles...
                >
                > Unit Contact information for North America:
                > ---------------------------------
                > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                >
                > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • David Lynch
                ... from the legal fraternity all be it that he is a yank? Robert R. White, Esq., Pvt. US Marines aboard Constitution ... Originally, Esquire indicated
                Message 7 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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                  --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Robert White <whiteesq@y...> wrote:
                  > L2 - and when you "talk" with Mr. Monahan could you use a second
                  from the legal fraternity all be it that he is a yank? Robert R.
                  White, Esq., Pvt. US Marines aboard Constitution
                  >

                  Originally, "Esquire" indicated one's status as a member of the
                  gentry - more than a gentleman, but not a Knight. Younger sons of
                  peers not otherwise entitled to use "Lord" (ie, Earls and below),
                  eldest sons of Knights, and members of the learned professions would
                  be among those entitled to the use of the appellation "Esquire".

                  The use of "Esquire" in the legal community is properly reserved for
                  use in correspondence from one lawyer to another. One should never,
                  however, use the term "Esq." to describe oneself. While I would
                  address a letter to John S. Smith, Esq., I would not sign it David
                  L. Lynch, Esq. Finally, it was also considered improper for non-
                  lawyers to use the term "Esquire" when addressing a lawyer.

                  Thus, it would certainly appear that L2, Esq., as younger son of the
                  Duke of Dipsidoodle, is perfectly entitled to it!

                  Cheers,
                  Dave Lynch
                  93rd SHRoFLHU
                  THE Thin Red Line
                • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                  In a message dated 01/11/2004 18:36:56 Central Standard Time, dave8365@aol.com writes: Thus, it would certainly appear that L2, Esq., as younger son of the
                  Message 8 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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                    In a message dated 01/11/2004 18:36:56 Central Standard Time,
                    dave8365@... writes:

                    Thus, it would certainly appear that L2, Esq., as younger son of the
                    Duke of Dipsidoodle, is perfectly entitled to it!



                    Actualy Dave in if Dady were a Duke, with no other title, you would be
                    either (depending on circumstance) Lord David or The Honourable David.

                    Cheers

                    Tim


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Larry Lozon
                    Robert R. White, Esq., wrote: L2 .... could you use a second from the legal fraternity .... From: David L. Lynch, Esq. Thus, it would certainly appear that
                    Message 9 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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                      Robert R. White, Esq., wrote:

                      L2 .... could you use a second from the legal fraternity ....

                      From: "David L. Lynch, Esq."

                      Thus, it would certainly appear that L2, Esq., as younger son of the
                      Duke of Dipsidoodle, is perfectly entitled to it!

                      -------------

                      Mr. David L. Lynch, Esq, who at one tyme did act as my second and friend
                      near the Mississinewa River during an affair of honour, Sir, may I
                      respectfully
                      correct your statement as I was the only son .... thus heir to the Duke!

                      You Sir, a Barrister and Solicitor from the State of California I am unaware
                      if
                      the title 'Yank' will set with you as you are from south of the line
                      Messieurs
                      Mason and Dixon did scribe.


                      Yrs.,

                      L2
                    • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                      In a message dated 01/11/2004 19:07:25 Central Standard Time, lalozon@netrover.com writes: Mr. David L. Lynch, Esq, OOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo Unkle Lar
                      Message 10 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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                        In a message dated 01/11/2004 19:07:25 Central Standard Time,
                        lalozon@... writes:


                        Mr. David L. Lynch, Esq,


                        OOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo Unkle Lar !!!!!!!!! that is the BIG no no!

                        Never ever under any circumstances Mr. & Esquire on the same name at the
                        same time!!!

                        For shame, you will be eating with your fork in your right hand next :-)!

                        Timbo (aka Miss Manners)


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • David Lynch
                        ... the ... would be ... David. ... You are ever so right, Tim...in my haste to make a small joke, I meant to say the Earl of Dipsidoodle, rather than Duke of
                        Message 11 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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                          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, BritcomHMP@a... wrote:
                          >
                          > In a message dated 01/11/2004 18:36:56 Central Standard Time,
                          > dave8365@a... writes:
                          >
                          > Thus, it would certainly appear that L2, Esq., as younger son of
                          the
                          > Duke of Dipsidoodle, is perfectly entitled to it!
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Actualy Dave in if Dady were a Duke, with no other title, you
                          would be
                          > either (depending on circumstance) Lord David or The Honourable
                          David.
                          >
                          > Cheers
                          >
                          > Tim
                          >
                          >


                          You are ever so right, Tim...in my haste to make a small joke, I
                          meant to say the Earl of Dipsidoodle, rather than Duke of
                          Dipsidoodle.

                          Oh well...they can't all be gems.

                          Vis-a-vis "the honorable"; that was used when referring to a younger
                          son in the third person, while first and second person were as Lord
                          Larry...yes?

                          Well...carry on making your mud pies.

                          Dave Lynch
                        • David Lynch
                          My Dear Mr. Lozon, I would happily second you any time. Even third and fourth you, if required. Timbo having already bopped you upon the head on one count, I
                          Message 12 of 17 , Nov 1, 2004
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                            My Dear Mr. Lozon,

                            I would happily second you any time. Even third and fourth you, if
                            required.

                            Timbo having already bopped you upon the head on one count, I shan't
                            add to your tweaking, except to say that, as heir to the Duke, you
                            would be according one of his lesser courtesy titles - for example,
                            the Earl of Wessex will succeed to the Duchy of Edinburgh upon the
                            passing of the present Duke.

                            I should also hasten to add that, from a Californian's perspective,
                            names such as "Yank" and "Mason-Dixon" are only important to that
                            overly-fed segment of the Eastern Seaboard who insist on wearing
                            drab, ill-fitting uniforms. I bet none of them has ever considered
                            purchasing a decent man's corset (not to mention their commission!)

                            Cheers,
                            David Lynch
                            93rd, etc.


                            --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Lozon" <lalozon@n...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Robert R. White, Esq., wrote:
                            >
                            > L2 .... could you use a second from the legal fraternity ....
                            >
                            > From: "David L. Lynch, Esq."
                            >
                            > Thus, it would certainly appear that L2, Esq., as younger son of
                            the
                            > Duke of Dipsidoodle, is perfectly entitled to it!
                            >
                            > -------------
                            >
                            > Mr. David L. Lynch, Esq, who at one tyme did act as my second and
                            friend
                            > near the Mississinewa River during an affair of honour, Sir, may I
                            > respectfully
                            > correct your statement as I was the only son .... thus heir to the
                            Duke!
                            >
                            > You Sir, a Barrister and Solicitor from the State of California I
                            am unaware
                            > if
                            > the title 'Yank' will set with you as you are from south of the
                            line
                            > Messieurs
                            > Mason and Dixon did scribe.
                            >
                            >
                            > Yrs.,
                            >
                            > L2
                          • Larry Lozon
                            From: OOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo Unkle Lar !!!!!!!!! that is the BIG no no! For shame, you will be eating with your fork in your right hand
                            Message 13 of 17 , Nov 2, 2004
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                              From: <BritcomHMP@...>

                              OOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo Unkle Lar !!!!!!!!!
                              that is the BIG no no!

                              For shame, you will be eating with your fork in your right hand next :-)!



                              ------------------------

                              Ny Dear Miss Timbo Manners


                              Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa .......


                              Ora pro nobis


                              Yrs.,
                              L2 ~ PX
                            • Larry Lozon
                              From: David Lynch I meant to say the Earl of Dipsidoodle, rather than Duke of Dipsidoodle. ... Or........ was it the Duke of Earl ?!
                              Message 14 of 17 , Nov 2, 2004
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                                From: "David Lynch" <dave8365@...>

                                I meant to say the Earl of Dipsidoodle,
                                rather than Duke of Dipsidoodle.

                                ------------------------

                                Or........


                                was it the 'Duke of Earl' ?! :^)
                              • J.Bruce Whittaker
                                Greetings, I found this regarding the use of Esquire . Enjoy es*quire (noun) [Middle English, from Middle French escuier squire, from Late Latin scutarius,
                                Message 15 of 17 , Nov 2, 2004
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                                  Greetings,
                                  I found this regarding the use of "Esquire". Enjoy

                                  "es*quire (noun)

                                  [Middle English, from Middle French escuier squire, from Late Latin
                                  scutarius, from Latin scutum shield; akin to Old Irish sciath shield]

                                  First appeared 15th Century

                                  1 : a member of the English gentry ranking below a knight

                                  2 : a candidate for knighthood serving as shield bearer and attendant
                                  to a knight

                                  3 -- used as a title of courtesy usu. placed in its abbreviated form
                                  after the surname

                                  4 archaic : a landed proprietor"

                                  Now you might ask: what allows one to use this title? Is there a
                                  ceremony? Is it conferred by a university? Is it just some
                                  affectation that snob-nosed folks use? Can I be Joe Blow, Esq. just
                                  because I like the ring to it? Or do I need to get authorization, and
                                  if so from what? from where?

                                  The answer is that any snob in the world can use the title. In
                                  fact, "squire" is a contraction of "esquire." I went to Black's Law
                                  Dictionary and they say (5th Ed., p. 489): "In Eng. law, a title of
                                  dignity above gentleman and below knight. Also a title of office
                                  given to sheriffs, serjeants, and and barristers at law, justices of
                                  the peace, and others. In the U.S., title commonly after the name of
                                  an attorney; e.g., John J. Jones, Esquire." The entry for Gentleman
                                  reads: "In its Engl. origin, this term formerly referred to a man of
                                  noble or gentle birth; one belonging to the landed gentry; a man of
                                  independent means; all above the rank of Yeomen." (Id. at 618.)
                                  Knight means: "In Eng. law, the next personal dignity after the
                                  nobility." (Id. at 783.)

                                  Now of course in England there's this whole business about hereditary
                                  nobility and getting knighted and all that, so it might be a little
                                  risky to start calling yourself esquire there. But we're not in
                                  England. You can call yourself anything you want here ... although
                                  you do take the risk that you will be thought a snooty jerk. Since
                                  this has never bothered lawyers, they have gotten into the habit of
                                  calling each other esquire. This is a little like elected officials
                                  addressing each other as "honorable," which to me seems a classic
                                  case of advertising something after it's gone. But I digress.

                                  Among lawyers, it's thought pretentious if you signs yourself "Esq."
                                  in written communications but you are supposed to dignify other
                                  lawyers with the appellation. So a lawyer's letters go out, "Yours
                                  very truly, Snidely Whiplash" but the envelope comes back addressed
                                  to "Snidely Whiplash, Esq." Also, you never put "Ms." or "Mr." in
                                  front of the name when you use "Esq." Still, this is strictly custom,
                                  and even if you never saw the inside of a law school there's nothing
                                  to prevent you from calling yourself esquire ... except the fact that
                                  you might be thought a lawyer.
                                • dancingbobd@webtv.net
                                  Especially, they might think you are a lawyer! ;-) Bob Dorian [Just plain Bob]
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Nov 2, 2004
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                                    Especially, they might think you are a lawyer! ;-)

                                    Bob Dorian
                                    [Just plain Bob]
                                  • Peter Catley
                                    ... From: J.Bruce Whittaker [mailto:ortheris@rogers.com] Sent: 02 November 2004 16:17 To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com Subject: [WarOf1812] re: Esquire Greetings,
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Nov 2, 2004
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                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: J.Bruce Whittaker [mailto:ortheris@...]
                                      Sent: 02 November 2004 16:17
                                      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [WarOf1812] re: Esquire




                                      Greetings,
                                      I found this regarding the use of "Esquire". Enjoy

                                      Now you might ask: what allows one to use this title? Is there a
                                      ceremony? Is it conferred by a university? Is it just some
                                      affectation that snob-nosed folks use? Can I be Joe Blow, Esq. just
                                      because I like the ring to it? Or do I need to get authorization, and
                                      if so from what? from where?

                                      Basically if you fancy it you can use it at least in the UK and I guess
                                      Ireland.

                                      Now of course in England there's this whole business about hereditary
                                      nobility and getting knighted and all that, so it might be a little
                                      risky to start calling yourself esquire there. But we're not in
                                      England. You can call yourself anything you want here ... although
                                      you do take the risk that you will be thought a snooty jerk. Since
                                      this has never bothered lawyers, they have gotten into the habit of
                                      calling each other esquire. This is a little like elected officials
                                      addressing each other as "honorable," which to me seems a classic
                                      case of advertising something after it's gone. But I digress.


                                      There is no social risk in Britain using the title esquire or esq. it is
                                      frequently used in written communications of a formal nature and certainly
                                      there is no formal requirement about it although it could be considered a
                                      miidle class profressional aspirant snobbish addition :-) Incidently there
                                      is no quivalent for women.


                                      So cheers

                                      Peter Catley esq.


                                      The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                                      square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                                      square miles...

                                      Unit Contact information for North America:
                                      ---------------------------------
                                      Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                                      http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                                      American Forces Unit Lisiting
                                      http://usforces1812.tripod.com



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