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Role of french canadians during the war

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  • Thomas
    Who were the french canadians siding with and what role did they take? Were they regular militia or irregular? Did they have uniforms or were they just
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 8, 2004
      Who were the french canadians siding with and what role did they
      take? Were they regular militia or irregular? Did they have uniforms
      or were they just ununiformed militia?

      thanks
      thomas
    • glifencible
      le click here for your answer no? http://reenacting.net/qhc/voltigeurs/
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 8, 2004
        le click here for your answer no?

        http://reenacting.net/qhc/voltigeurs/


        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas" <talleman1@h...> wrote:
        > Who were the french canadians siding with and what role did they
        > take? Were they regular militia or irregular? Did they have uniforms
        > or were they just ununiformed militia?
        >
        > thanks
        > thomas
      • suthren@magma.ca
        Dear Thomas The residents of Lower Canada (as Quebec was called until 1841) were neutral, essentially, during the American Revolution, as they saw the war as a
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 8, 2004
          Dear Thomas

          The residents of Lower Canada (as Quebec was called until 1841) were
          neutral, essentially, during the American Revolution, as they saw the war as
          a civil war between differents sets of English and had vivid memories of the
          Seven Years War and its horrors. A few served with the rebels, more with the
          Militia (e.g. at Quebec, repulsing Arnold) and most remained neutral.

          During the War of 1812 their attitude was much different, as they understood
          they were threatened with invasion, and had a choice between a relatively
          benevolent British administration which had allowed them their religion and
          civil law, and an American one which would have imposed the US Constitution
          on them, and demanded cultural assimilation. The response was to participate
          well in the defence of Canada in 1812-1814.

          There were some 12,000 Sedentary Militia (ununiformed militia issued with
          stands of arms who were called out in extraordinary ciurcumstances, and who
          also did roadwork, etc.), Embodied Militia (militia units uniformed as per
          regulars who were trained to high standards and who could be called out for
          the duration of the war, Select Embodied Militia (e.g. the Lower Canada
          Select Embodied Militia, composed of the light companies of all Quebec's
          Embodied Militia battalions, and which served continuously for the war), and
          regular "fencible" regiments, who were in all respects regular troops except
          that they were required only to serve in the North American theatre of war.
          Examples of the latter were the Provincial Corps of Light Infantry (or
          'Voltigeurs Canadiens') a grey-clad and highly efficient light infantry
          regiment of almost entirely French-Canadian enlistment, commanded by Lt-Col.
          Charles de Salaberry, and the Canadian Fencibles, who had a high proportion
          of French-speakers in its ranks. The Canadian Fencibles were dressed as per
          the regular infantry, in red, faced yellow. Both units were trained to
          regular standards. A number of French-Canadians also served in other units,
          such as the British Indian Department, the Provincial Marine, and others.

          The French-Canadian fighting recoird was excellent, as they knew what they
          had to lose. Voltigeurs and Fencibles were in the Light Infantry screen of
          Morrison's victory at Cryslers' Farm (Nov 11, 1813) and played a central
          role in the repulse of Hampton at Chateauguay (Oct 26, 1813), won by Charles
          de Salaberry with almost a wholly French-Canadian force, supported by "Red
          George" Macdonnell of the Glengarries in the reserve. The French were, in
          the manner of frontier farmers and woodsmen, better shots than average, and
          also used mimicking of Iroquois war cries to terrorise larger formations of
          US infantry. They were excellent light infantry.

          The gallantry of the French-Canadian performance in the War of 1812 was
          recognized by Horse Guards after the war in the awarding of Colours to the
          regiments of Embodied Militia which had served notably.

          Yours aye
          Vic Suthren

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Thomas" <talleman1@...>
          To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 4:33 PM
          Subject: [WarOf1812] Role of french canadians during the war


          > Who were the french canadians siding with and what role did they
          > take? Were they regular militia or irregular? Did they have uniforms
          > or were they just ununiformed militia?
          >
          > thanks
          > thomas
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
          square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
          square miles...
          >
          > Unit Contact information for North America:
          > ---------------------------------
          > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          >
          > American Forces Unit Lisiting
          > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • ray.hobbs@sympatico.ca
          In addition to the Infantry regiments listed by Vic, do not forget the Canadian Light Dragoons (Coleman s Troop), which was raised in Montreal in early 1813,
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 8, 2004
            In addition to the Infantry regiments listed by Vic, do not forget the Canadian Light Dragoons
            (Coleman's Troop), which was raised in Montreal in early 1813, and was stood down in late 1815, early
            1816.
            Although raised by an "anglo", the unit was about 50% French Canadian, and served well in the
            defence of Upper Canada throughout the war. Several members were captured at Moraviantown, and
            about half of those captured died in captivity.
            Unfortunately, because of the almost identical uniforms to the Provincial Light edragoons of Upper
            Canada, the CLD are often confused with them, even in official records.
            Coleman raised the unit (and paid for much of their kit himself) by using as his core some troops from
            the Royal Mounted Veterans - veteran British cavalry troopers who had settled in the Canadas. This
            gave him a very solid base on which to build.
            Of interest - after the war, partly because of ongoing political squabbles, Coleman settled in Beleville,
            Upper Canada, and became a prominent politician in the region. His senior lieutenant, Benjamin
            Holmes, went on to become a very important Quebec businessman, and one of the founders of the
            Bank of Montreal.
            Ain't history grand
            Ray Hobbs
            Sometimes a.k.a - as in the Crown Forces Mess, Capt. Coleman.



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Angela Gottfred
            One other French-Canadian group which hasn t been mentioned is the Canadian Corps of Voyageurs, made up of management and staff of the North West Company.
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 10, 2004
              One other French-Canadian group which hasn't been mentioned is the Canadian
              Corps of Voyageurs, made up of management and staff of the North West Company.

              http://ccv.northwestcompany.com/ccv.html

              Probably the only Canadian group which had to march *east* to get into the war!

              Your humble & obedient servant,
              Angela Gottfred
            • ruyourboat
              Hi Ray Thanks for this post. You tantalisingly talk of havi9ng the same uniform as the Provinical Light Dragoons of Upper Canada...other than blue coats do
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 4, 2011
                Hi Ray

                Thanks for this post. You tantalisingly talk of havi9ng the same uniform as the Provinical Light Dragoons of Upper Canada...other than blue coats do you have any more detail on these guys (Merritt's troop) please?

                Thanks Ru

                --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, <ray.hobbs@...> wrote:
                >
                > In addition to the Infantry regiments listed by Vic, do not forget the Canadian Light Dragoons
                > (Coleman's Troop), which was raised in Montreal in early 1813, and was stood down in late 1815, early
                > 1816.
                > Although raised by an "anglo", the unit was about 50% French Canadian, and served well in the
                > defence of Upper Canada throughout the war. Several members were captured at Moraviantown, and
                > about half of those captured died in captivity.
                > Unfortunately, because of the almost identical uniforms to the Provincial Light edragoons of Upper
                > Canada, the CLD are often confused with them, even in official records.
                > Coleman raised the unit (and paid for much of their kit himself) by using as his core some troops from
                > the Royal Mounted Veterans - veteran British cavalry troopers who had settled in the Canadas. This
                > gave him a very solid base on which to build.
                > Of interest - after the war, partly because of ongoing political squabbles, Coleman settled in Beleville,
                > Upper Canada, and became a prominent politician in the region. His senior lieutenant, Benjamin
                > Holmes, went on to become a very important Quebec businessman, and one of the founders of the
                > Bank of Montreal.
                > Ain't history grand
                > Ray Hobbs
                > Sometimes a.k.a - as in the Crown Forces Mess, Capt. Coleman.
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Ray Hobbs
                Ru:In my understanding the uniforms were identical, that is why the two units were often being confused in reports. Here is a citation from the relevant
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 4, 2011
                  Ru:In my understanding the uniforms were identical, that is why the two units were often being confused in reports. Here is a citation from the relevant warrant to be found in the Archives in Ottawa:
                  Blue jacket, red cuff and collar white button ; felt helmet with bearskin ; grey overalls wrap- ped with leather, and Canadian beef half-boots to lace iu front.
                  (Canadian Archives, C. 703, p. 63.)
                  The "felt helmet" to which the warrant refers is a short round hat with brim, a bit like a truncated top hat, over which, from front to back, was fixed a strip of black bearskin. Its overall effect from a distance was to make it look like a "Tarleton" helmet. "White buttons" were made of pewter, and plain, probably domed. The uniform was an adaptation from the uniform of drivers for the Royal Wagon Train, with the adjustment on the cuff - pointed, not flat.
                  Hope this helps.Ray
                  To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                  From: ruyourboat@...
                  Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 11:46:10 +0000
                  Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Role of french canadians during the war




























                  Hi Ray



                  Thanks for this post. You tantalisingly talk of havi9ng the same uniform as the Provinical Light Dragoons of Upper Canada...other than blue coats do you have any more detail on these guys (Merritt's troop) please?



                  Thanks Ru



                  --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, <ray.hobbs@...> wrote:

                  >

                  > In addition to the Infantry regiments listed by Vic, do not forget the Canadian Light Dragoons

                  > (Coleman's Troop), which was raised in Montreal in early 1813, and was stood down in late 1815, early

                  > 1816.

                  > Although raised by an "anglo", the unit was about 50% French Canadian, and served well in the

                  > defence of Upper Canada throughout the war. Several members were captured at Moraviantown, and

                  > about half of those captured died in captivity.

                  > Unfortunately, because of the almost identical uniforms to the Provincial Light edragoons of Upper

                  > Canada, the CLD are often confused with them, even in official records.

                  > Coleman raised the unit (and paid for much of their kit himself) by using as his core some troops from

                  > the Royal Mounted Veterans - veteran British cavalry troopers who had settled in the Canadas. This

                  > gave him a very solid base on which to build.

                  > Of interest - after the war, partly because of ongoing political squabbles, Coleman settled in Beleville,

                  > Upper Canada, and became a prominent politician in the region. His senior lieutenant, Benjamin

                  > Holmes, went on to become a very important Quebec businessman, and one of the founders of the

                  > Bank of Montreal.

                  > Ain't history grand

                  > Ray Hobbs

                  > Sometimes a.k.a - as in the Crown Forces Mess, Capt. Coleman.

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  >


















                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Colonel
                  Ray, I would like you, and others, to know that over the winter I have put together a kit for the Canadian Light Dragoons, AKA Coleman s Troop. I did this to
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 5, 2011
                    Ray,
                    I would like you, and others, to know that over the winter I have put together a kit for the Canadian Light Dragoons, AKA Coleman's Troop. I did this to add it to my other mounted impressions thinking that sometime in the future I will be able to wear it at a 200th event that will allow horses on the field. There are other interpretations and illustrations on the felt hat, however, and I made mine from a felt jocky style similar to the Rev War style Tarleton helmet. For all else I followed the Canadian Archives, C. 703, p. 63. It would be nice if others would wish to do this impression as well.

                    Tom Moore

                    --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Ray Hobbs <ray.hobbs@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Ru:In my understanding the uniforms were identical, that is why the two units were often being confused in reports. Here is a citation from the relevant warrant to be found in the Archives in Ottawa:
                    > Blue jacket, red cuff and collar white button ; felt helmet with bearskin ; grey overalls wrap- ped with leather, and Canadian beef half-boots to lace iu front.
                    > (Canadian Archives, C. 703, p. 63.)
                    > The "felt helmet" to which the warrant refers is a short round hat with brim, a bit like a truncated top hat, over which, from front to back, was fixed a strip of black bearskin. Its overall effect from a distance was to make it look like a "Tarleton" helmet. "White buttons" were made of pewter, and plain, probably domed. The uniform was an adaptation from the uniform of drivers for the Royal Wagon Train, with the adjustment on the cuff - pointed, not flat.
                    > Hope this helps.Ray
                    > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                    > From: ruyourboat@...
                    > Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 11:46:10 +0000
                    > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Role of french canadians during the war
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                    > Hi Ray
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Thanks for this post. You tantalisingly talk of havi9ng the same uniform as the Provinical Light Dragoons of Upper Canada...other than blue coats do you have any more detail on these guys (Merritt's troop) please?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Thanks Ru
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, <ray.hobbs@> wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > In addition to the Infantry regiments listed by Vic, do not forget the Canadian Light Dragoons
                    >
                    > > (Coleman's Troop), which was raised in Montreal in early 1813, and was stood down in late 1815, early
                    >
                    > > 1816.
                    >
                    > > Although raised by an "anglo", the unit was about 50% French Canadian, and served well in the
                    >
                    > > defence of Upper Canada throughout the war. Several members were captured at Moraviantown, and
                    >
                    > > about half of those captured died in captivity.
                    >
                    > > Unfortunately, because of the almost identical uniforms to the Provincial Light edragoons of Upper
                    >
                    > > Canada, the CLD are often confused with them, even in official records.
                    >
                    > > Coleman raised the unit (and paid for much of their kit himself) by using as his core some troops from
                    >
                    > > the Royal Mounted Veterans - veteran British cavalry troopers who had settled in the Canadas. This
                    >
                    > > gave him a very solid base on which to build.
                    >
                    > > Of interest - after the war, partly because of ongoing political squabbles, Coleman settled in Beleville,
                    >
                    > > Upper Canada, and became a prominent politician in the region. His senior lieutenant, Benjamin
                    >
                    > > Holmes, went on to become a very important Quebec businessman, and one of the founders of the
                    >
                    > > Bank of Montreal.
                    >
                    > > Ain't history grand
                    >
                    > > Ray Hobbs
                    >
                    > > Sometimes a.k.a - as in the Crown Forces Mess, Capt. Coleman.
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Richard Johns
                    Ray Thank you so much, that is great information and much appreciated.  The hat detail is especially welcome and will allow the unit to grace my wargames
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 5, 2011
                      Ray

                      Thank you so much, that is great information and much appreciated.  The hat
                      detail is especially welcome and will allow the unit to grace my wargames table
                      in due course.

                      Best regards

                      Richard 




                      ________________________________
                      From: Ray Hobbs <ray.hobbs@...>
                      To: warof1812@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Fri, 4 March, 2011 20:36:13
                      Subject: RE: [WarOf1812] Role of french canadians during the war


                      Ru:In my understanding the uniforms were identical, that is why the two units
                      were often being confused in reports. Here is a citation from the relevant
                      warrant to be found in the Archives in Ottawa:
                      Blue jacket, red cuff and collar white button ;    felt helmet with bearskin
                      ;    grey overalls wrap- ped with leather, and Canadian beef half-boots to lace
                      iu front.
                      (Canadian Archives, C. 703, p. 63.)
                      The "felt helmet" to which the warrant refers is a short round hat with brim, a
                      bit like a truncated top hat, over which, from front to back, was fixed a strip
                      of black bearskin. Its overall effect from a distance was to make it look like a
                      "Tarleton" helmet. "White buttons" were made of pewter, and plain, probably
                      domed. The uniform was an adaptation from the uniform of drivers for the Royal
                      Wagon Train, with the adjustment on the cuff - pointed, not flat.
                      Hope this helps.Ray
                      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                      From: ruyourboat@...
                      Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 11:46:10 +0000
                      Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Role of french canadians during the war






















                       


                         
                           
                           
                            Hi Ray



                      Thanks for this post.  You tantalisingly talk of havi9ng the same uniform as the
                      Provinical Light Dragoons of Upper Canada...other than blue coats do you have
                      any more detail on these guys (Merritt's troop) please?



                      Thanks Ru



                      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, <ray.hobbs@...> wrote:

                      >

                      > In addition to the Infantry regiments listed by Vic, do not forget the Canadian
                      >Light Dragoons
                      >

                      > (Coleman's Troop), which was raised in Montreal in early 1813, and was stood
                      >down in late 1815, early
                      >

                      > 1816.

                      > Although raised by an "anglo", the unit was about 50% French Canadian, and
                      >served well in the
                      >

                      > defence of Upper Canada throughout the war. Several members were captured at
                      >Moraviantown, and
                      >

                      > about half of those captured died in captivity.

                      > Unfortunately, because of the almost identical uniforms to the Provincial Light
                      >edragoons of Upper
                      >

                      > Canada, the CLD are often confused with them, even in official records.

                      > Coleman raised the unit (and paid for much of their kit himself) by using as
                      >his core some troops from
                      >

                      > the Royal Mounted Veterans - veteran British cavalry troopers who had settled
                      >in the Canadas. This
                      >

                      > gave him a very solid base on which to build.

                      > Of interest - after the war, partly because of ongoing political squabbles,
                      >Coleman settled in Beleville,
                      >

                      > Upper Canada, and became a prominent politician in the region. His senior
                      >lieutenant, Benjamin
                      >

                      > Holmes, went on to become a very important Quebec businessman, and one of the
                      >founders of the
                      >

                      > Bank of Montreal.

                      > Ain't history grand

                      > Ray Hobbs

                      > Sometimes a.k.a - as in the Crown Forces Mess, Capt. Coleman.

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      >





                         
                         

                         
                         






                                               

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Ray Hobbs
                      Thank you, Sarah. I am aware of the change. For Ru s inquiry I simply cut and pasted from Homfrey s section on uniforms - a little outdated, but it provided
                      Message 10 of 10 , Mar 7, 2011
                        Thank you, Sarah. I am aware of the change. For "Ru's" inquiry I simply cut and pasted from Homfrey's section on uniforms - a little outdated, but it provided all the information needed.RegardsRay

                        To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                        From: recce40@...
                        Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 18:48:29 +0000
                        Subject: 1812 Re: Role of french canadians during the war




























                        Just an update, Ray.

                        C.703 is now known as Record Group (RG)8-I "C-Series", vol. 703 (Reel number C-3236). This may be ordered through interlibrary loan from Library and Archives Canada.



                        Cheers,

                        Sarah



                        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Colonel" <lehrerprofessoren@...> wrote:

                        >

                        > Ray,

                        > I would like you, and others, to know that over the winter I have put together a kit for the Canadian Light Dragoons, AKA Coleman's Troop. I did this to add it to my other mounted impressions thinking that sometime in the future I will be able to wear it at a 200th event that will allow horses on the field. There are other interpretations and illustrations on the felt hat, however, and I made mine from a felt jocky style similar to the Rev War style Tarleton helmet. For all else I followed the Canadian Archives, C. 703, p. 63. It would be nice if others would wish to do this impression as well.

                        >

                        > Tom Moore

                        >

                        > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Ray Hobbs <ray.hobbs@> wrote:

                        > >

                        > >

                        > > Ru:In my understanding the uniforms were identical, that is why the two units were often being confused in reports. Here is a citation from the relevant warrant to be found in the Archives in Ottawa:

                        > > Blue jacket, red cuff and collar white button ; felt helmet with bearskin ; grey overalls wrap- ped with leather, and Canadian beef half-boots to lace iu front.

                        > > (Canadian Archives, C. 703, p. 63.)

                        > > The "felt helmet" to which the warrant refers is a short round hat with brim, a bit like a truncated top hat, over which, from front to back, was fixed a strip of black bearskin. Its overall effect from a distance was to make it look like a "Tarleton" helmet. "White buttons" were made of pewter, and plain, probably domed. The uniform was an adaptation from the uniform of drivers for the Royal Wagon Train, with the adjustment on the cuff - pointed, not flat.

                        > > Hope this helps.Ray

                        > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com

                        > > From: ruyourboat@

                        > > Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 11:46:10 +0000

                        > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Role of french canadians during the war

                        > >

                        > >

                        > >

                        > >

                        > >

                        > >

                        > >

                        > >

                        > >

                        > >

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                        > >

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                        > >

                        > >

                        > >

                        > >

                        > >

                        > > Hi Ray

                        > >

                        > >

                        > >

                        > > Thanks for this post. You tantalisingly talk of havi9ng the same uniform as the Provinical Light Dragoons of Upper Canada...other than blue coats do you have any more detail on these guys (Merritt's troop) please?

                        > >

                        > >

                        > >

                        > > Thanks Ru

                        > >

                        > >

                        > >

                        > > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, <ray.hobbs@> wrote:

                        > >

                        > > >

                        > >

                        > > > In addition to the Infantry regiments listed by Vic, do not forget the Canadian Light Dragoons

                        > >

                        > > > (Coleman's Troop), which was raised in Montreal in early 1813, and was stood down in late 1815, early

                        > >

                        > > > 1816.

                        > >

                        > > > Although raised by an "anglo", the unit was about 50% French Canadian, and served well in the

                        > >

                        > > > defence of Upper Canada throughout the war. Several members were captured at Moraviantown, and

                        > >

                        > > > about half of those captured died in captivity.

                        > >

                        > > > Unfortunately, because of the almost identical uniforms to the Provincial Light edragoons of Upper

                        > >

                        > > > Canada, the CLD are often confused with them, even in official records.

                        > >

                        > > > Coleman raised the unit (and paid for much of their kit himself) by using as his core some troops from

                        > >

                        > > > the Royal Mounted Veterans - veteran British cavalry troopers who had settled in the Canadas. This

                        > >

                        > > > gave him a very solid base on which to build.

                        > >

                        > > > Of interest - after the war, partly because of ongoing political squabbles, Coleman settled in Beleville,

                        > >

                        > > > Upper Canada, and became a prominent politician in the region. His senior lieutenant, Benjamin

                        > >

                        > > > Holmes, went on to become a very important Quebec businessman, and one of the founders of the

                        > >

                        > > > Bank of Montreal.

                        > >

                        > > > Ain't history grand

                        > >

                        > > > Ray Hobbs

                        > >

                        > > > Sometimes a.k.a - as in the Crown Forces Mess, Capt. Coleman.

                        > >

                        > > >

                        > >

                        > > >

                        > >

                        > > >

                        > >

                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        > >

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                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        > >

                        >


















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