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Re: [WarOf1812] Authenticity question

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  • suthren@magma.ca
    In 1808 units of the British army cut the traditional queue although it was retained in the Royal Navy for sometime thereafter. My understanding is that
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 1 9:03 AM
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      In 1808 units of the British army cut the traditional 'queue' although it
      was retained in the Royal Navy for sometime thereafter. My understanding is
      that facial hair in British service at the time could not be worn below a
      line from the corner of the mouth to the earlobe, with the exception of
      pioneers and Chelsea Pensioners. Moustaches were also a mark of light
      cavalry but not otherwise worn. The "sideburns" were to be of the same
      length as the hair, and the latter to touch the collar but not go below it.

      A properly grown set of "sideburns" and correct hair length would help you
      have a correct and impressive look. Numbers of 1812 re-enactors do wear full
      beards, but it is, strictly speaking, incorrect to do so. It depends on the
      level of your commitment to accuracy, the same way grossly overweight
      re-enactors will sometimes diet and exercise their way to a more 'normal'
      appearance because of their desire to look actually like an 1812
      infantryman, rather than Billy Bunter Goes To War. Others are unconcerned
      about turning out as very heavy Light Infantry---or wearing inappropriate
      beards. It's your choice to make....

      You're on the right track, however. And welcome to an engrossing hobby.

      Yours aye
      Vic Suthren

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <goidel@...>
      To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 11:19 AM
      Subject: [WarOf1812] Authenticity question


      > All-
      > Since the topic has come up regarding facial hair, I'll ask a serious
      > question which (hopefully) won't result in a flame war. It is my
      > understanding, from looking at some portraiture from the early 19th
      > century as well as photos of Napoeonic reenactors in Europe, that the
      > common / fashionable facial hair was sideburns, pushing into
      > mutton-chops. In light of this, I have begun cultivating facial hair
      > that, in about two more weeks, can be shaved and shaped into this.
      > The question here is whether or not I am completely off-target with
      > this. Any thoughts?
      >
      > Your servant,
      > John Ogden
      > 17th US Infantry
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
      square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
      square miles...
      >
      > Unit Contact information for North America:
      > ---------------------------------
      > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
      > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
      >
      > American Forces Unit Lisiting
      > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • goidel@darksleep.com
      Mr. Suthren & cie- Thank you for your response. Apparently I am on the right track here. Will use this as a guide in the shaping of said sideburns (which I
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 1 9:07 AM
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        Mr. Suthren & cie-
        Thank you for your response. Apparently I am on the right track
        here. Will use this as a guide in the shaping of said sideburns
        (which I realize is a term from the ACW).

        Yours,
        John Ogden

        > In 1808 units of the British army cut the traditional 'queue'
        > although it
        > was retained in the Royal Navy for sometime thereafter. My understanding
        > is
        > that facial hair in British service at the time could not be worn below a
        > line from the corner of the mouth to the earlobe, with the exception of
        > pioneers and Chelsea Pensioners. Moustaches were also a mark of light
        > cavalry but not otherwise worn. The "sideburns" were to be of
        > the same
        > length as the hair, and the latter to touch the collar but not go below
        > it.
        >
        > A properly grown set of "sideburns" and correct hair length
        > would help you
        > have a correct and impressive look. Numbers of 1812 re-enactors do wear
        > full
        > beards, but it is, strictly speaking, incorrect to do so. It depends on
        > the
        > level of your commitment to accuracy, the same way grossly overweight
        > re-enactors will sometimes diet and exercise their way to a more 'normal'
        > appearance because of their desire to look actually like an 1812
        > infantryman, rather than Billy Bunter Goes To War. Others are unconcerned
        > about turning out as very heavy Light Infantry---or wearing inappropriate
        > beards. It's your choice to make....
        >
        > You're on the right track, however. And welcome to an engrossing hobby.
        >
        > Yours aye
        > Vic Suthren
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From:
        > To:
        > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 11:19 AM
        > Subject: [WarOf1812] Authenticity question
        >
        >
        > > All-
        > > Since the topic has come up regarding facial hair, I'll ask a
        > serious
        > > question which (hopefully) won't result in a flame war. It is my
        > > understanding, from looking at some portraiture from the early 19th
        > > century as well as photos of Napoeonic reenactors in Europe, that the
        > > common / fashionable facial hair was sideburns, pushing into
        > > mutton-chops. In light of this, I have begun cultivating facial hair
        > > that, in about two more weeks, can be shaved and shaped into this.
        > > The question here is whether or not I am completely off-target with
        > > this. Any thoughts?
        > >
        > > Your servant,
        > > John Ogden
        > > 17th US Infantry
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
        > of
        > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
        > of
        > square miles...
        > >
        > > Unit Contact information for North America:
        > > ---------------------------------
        > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
        > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
        > >
        > > American Forces Unit Lisiting
        > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
        > of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
        > THOUSANDS of square miles...
        >
        > Unit Contact information for North America:
        > ---------------------------------
        > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
        > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
        >
        > American Forces Unit Lisiting
        > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      • Peter Catley
        Thank you Vic! Cheers P*8 My understanding is that facial hair in British service at the time could not be worn below a line from the corner of the mouth to
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 1 11:57 AM
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          Thank you Vic!

          Cheers

          P*8

          My understanding is that facial hair in British service at the time could
          not be worn below a
          line from the corner of the mouth to the earlobe, with the exception of
          pioneers and Chelsea Pensioners.



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • BritcomHMP@aol.com
          In a message dated 01/09/2004 11:00:56 Central Standard Time, suthren@magma.ca writes: Moustaches were also a mark of light cavalry but not otherwise worn.
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 1 3:17 PM
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            In a message dated 01/09/2004 11:00:56 Central Standard Time,
            suthren@... writes:

            Moustaches were also a mark of light
            cavalry but not otherwise worn. The "sideburns" were to be of the same
            length as the hair, and the latter to touch the collar but not go below it.



            Actualy Vic it is Hussars that wear moustaches not Light Dragoons so not all
            light cavalry in British service, there is also a reference somewhere to the
            Scots Grays being permited to retain their moustaches (c1814 IIRC) so that is
            it. You are quite correct about the length of the sidewhiskers though prior
            to 1806 only officers, senior NCOs and the drum major were officialy permited
            to wear them (vide the 1803 rules for the Gibraltar garrison)

            Cheers

            Tim


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • suthren@magma.ca
            Thanks for correcting me, Tim. Vic ... From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 6:17 PM Subject: Re:
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 1 6:42 PM
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              Thanks for correcting me, Tim.
              Vic
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: <BritcomHMP@...>
              To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 6:17 PM
              Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Authenticity question


              >
              > In a message dated 01/09/2004 11:00:56 Central Standard Time,
              > suthren@... writes:
              >
              > Moustaches were also a mark of light
              > cavalry but not otherwise worn. The "sideburns" were to be of the same
              > length as the hair, and the latter to touch the collar but not go below
              it.
              >
              >
              >
              > Actualy Vic it is Hussars that wear moustaches not Light Dragoons so not
              all
              > light cavalry in British service, there is also a reference somewhere to
              the
              > Scots Grays being permited to retain their moustaches (c1814 IIRC) so that
              is
              > it. You are quite correct about the length of the sidewhiskers though
              prior
              > to 1806 only officers, senior NCOs and the drum major were officialy
              permited
              > to wear them (vide the 1803 rules for the Gibraltar garrison)
              >
              > Cheers
              >
              > Tim
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
              square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
              square miles...
              >
              > Unit Contact information for North America:
              > ---------------------------------
              > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              >
              > American Forces Unit Lisiting
              > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Peter Catley
              Tim s considered response is the correct one officially permitted what we don t know and cannot know is the extent that variations were tolerated, either by
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 1 11:52 PM
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                Tim's considered response is the correct one "officially permitted" what we
                don't know and cannot know is the extent that variations were tolerated,
                either by Regiments or even on overseas stations.

                Cheers

                P**

                -----Original Message-----
                From: BritcomHMP@... [mailto:BritcomHMP@...]
                Sent: 01 September 2004 23:17
                To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Authenticity question



                In a message dated 01/09/2004 11:00:56 Central Standard Time,
                suthren@... writes:

                Moustaches were also a mark of light
                cavalry but not otherwise worn. The "sideburns" were to be of the same
                length as the hair, and the latter to touch the collar but not go below it.



                Actualy Vic it is Hussars that wear moustaches not Light Dragoons so not
                all
                light cavalry in British service, there is also a reference somewhere to the

                Scots Grays being permited to retain their moustaches (c1814 IIRC) so that
                is
                it. You are quite correct about the length of the sidewhiskers though prior
                to 1806 only officers, senior NCOs and the drum major were officialy
                permited
                to wear them (vide the 1803 rules for the Gibraltar garrison)

                Cheers

                Tim


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                square miles...

                Unit Contact information for North America:
                ---------------------------------
                Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                American Forces Unit Lisiting
                http://usforces1812.tripod.com



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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                In a message dated 02/09/2004 01:55:11 Central Standard Time, peter.catley@btinternet.com writes: Tim s considered response is the correct one officially
                Message 7 of 8 , Sep 2 6:23 AM
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                  In a message dated 02/09/2004 01:55:11 Central Standard Time,
                  peter.catley@... writes:

                  Tim's considered response is the correct one "officially permitted" what we
                  don't know and cannot know is the extent that variations were tolerated,
                  either by Regiments or even on overseas stations.





                  You are quite correct Peter, however there is one foreign station that we DO
                  have full details for and that is Gibralta 1803. Those regulations are
                  exactly what was enforced in the UK. We also know that the army in North America
                  (or at least the Peninsular vets) were most offended by Sir George Preevost's
                  insistance that all the dress regulations etc. be adhered to after being used
                  to Wellingtons idea that a clean weapon and a full amunition pouch was all
                  that was nessasary. Though it is certainly known that Wellington disliked
                  beards.

                  It depends what a soldier was doing as to wether some of these regulations
                  were followed and you can be certain that while they might have been ignored
                  during periods of fighting, the long periods of boredom would be filled with
                  shaving and mending.

                  BTW At the Grand Tactical Doug De Croix modeled his British Officer in the
                  Peninsula kit, absolutely splendid impression and virtualy not one item of
                  regulation kit in it. However one thing I always insisted on in the early days
                  of the NA (and still think aproprate today) is that the new recruit gets full
                  dress kit first, it has been my experience that if someone finds they can take
                  the field in a makeshift get up when they start they have no incentive to
                  get the other kit together. But that is a regimental call.

                  Cheers

                  Tim



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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