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Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment

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  • Kevin Windsor
    Actually by the end of the War the Navy was building the HMS St Lawrence and the HMS Canada at 104 guns To give you an idea of how wide Lake Ontario is, I live
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 3, 2004
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      Actually by the end of the War the Navy was building the HMS St Lawrence and
      the HMS Canada at 104 guns
      To give you an idea of how wide Lake Ontario is, I live in Niagara Falls
      which is the middle of the Niagara River (connecting Lake Erie to Lake
      Ontario) at the Lake Ontario end is the Forts George and Niagara. To get
      across the lake from Niagara to Toronto is a distance of 52 km. To drive
      from Niagara to Toronto is 120 km. It's a big lake, but in fact the
      smallest of the Great Lakes (not counting Lake St Clair).

      Go to
      http://www.great-lakes.net/lakes/ref/lakefact.html

      Kevin
      ----- Original Message -----



      > Can you have frigates on water that isn't a proper sea? :-) QED?
      >
      > P**
    • suthren@magma.ca
      May I observe that many distinguished gentlemen parade as officers of rank in an organization which rarely fields what would constitute two or three battalion
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 4, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        May I observe that many distinguished gentlemen parade as officers of rank
        in an organization which rarely fields what would constitute two or three
        battalion companies of actual 1812 infantry; I think we have opted to
        recognize skill level, not size of the command (be it a regiment with
        battalion, light and grenadier companies at full established strength as per
        1812, or a 12-pounder frigate, neither of which we will ever turn out).

        We could always merely turn out with senior people at the appropriate ranks
        for numbers on command; I suggest we'd rarely have morte than a Corporal on
        land or a Petty Officer afloat---and have less fun.
        Yours aye
        Vic Suthren
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Peter Catley" <peter.catley@...>
        To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 2:44 AM
        Subject: RE: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment


        > Can you have frigates on water that isn't a proper sea? :-) QED?
        >
        > P**
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Ed Seufert [mailto:LCpl_RM@...]
        > Sent: 03 August 2004 04:50
        > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
        >
        >
        > List,
        >
        > After reviewing the below list, I have to ask a question. Since a
        > Post-Captain is usually in command of nothing less than a rated ship
        (1st -
        > 6th), do we have that many Frigates to SOLs on the Great Lakes? I've
        never
        > seen any of them at events. ;-)
        >
        > Curious,
        >
        > Ed Seufert, LCpl
        > 1812 Royal Marines
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > Subject: CFNA Naval Establishment
        >
        > Naval Establishment
        > Crown Forces North America (1812)
        >
        > Subject to revision
        >
        > Admiral Commanding, the North American Station:
        > VADM Richard Price
        >
        > Post Captains:
        > Capt. Gill Bibby, Head of the Lake
        > Capt. Christopher Bagley, detached service, Upper Lakes
        > Capt. Victor Suthren, Squadron Commodore pro tem
        > Capt. Scott Shank, Flag Captain
        > Capt. James Lowrie, Upper Lakes
        >
        > Commanders:
        > Cdr. Peter Rindlisbacher, Amherstburg
        >
        > Lieutenants:
        > Lt. John Leclair, detached service, Upper Lakes
        > Lt. Mark Pergunas, Riverine Bateaux Flotilla
        > Lt. John Bayfield, Upper Lakes
        > Lt. John McCallum, detached service, R. Nfld.R.
        >
        > Senior Warrant Officers:
        > Edward Martin, Master Gunner
        > Mary Baruth, Master Gunner
        > Armand Lapointe, Senior Boatswain
        > David May, Quartermaster
        > Colin Wu, Boatswain
        >
        >
        > Ships and Vessels:
        > St. Lawrence II, flag
        > Tecumseth (in ordinary)
        > Pathfinder
        > Playfair
        > Fair Jeanne
        > Bee (in workup to sea trials)
        > Black Jack
        >
        >
        > Longboats & Bateaux:
        > Wolfe
        > Black Snake
        > Witch of A'burg
        > Rolette
        > Irvine
        > Royal George
        > Hamilton
        > Bytown Starboard Whaler
        > Bytown Port Whaler
        > Badger (detached service, Upper Lakes)
        >
        >
        > CROWN FORCES NORTH AMERICA {CFNA}
        > is the convenient name given the re-created Military Re-enactment Units of
        > BRITISH ~ CANADIAN ~ MILITIA ~ ALLIED forces located in the United
        > States and Canada. Those Military Re-enactment Units are listed at:
        > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
        > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > ADVERTISEMENT
        >
        >
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        >
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        Service.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
        > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
        of
        > square miles...
        >
        > Unit Contact information for North America:
        > ---------------------------------
        > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
        > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
        >
        > American Forces Unit Lisiting
        > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        >
        > ADVERTISEMENT
        >
        >
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        >
        oups/S=1705020536:HM/EXP=1091591226/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://comp
        > anion.yahoo.com> click here
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        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
        square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
        square miles...
        >
        > Unit Contact information for North America:
        > ---------------------------------
        > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
        > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
        >
        > American Forces Unit Lisiting
        > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Ed Seufert
        It is the tendency of re-enactment units through all periods to have officers and NCOs in numbers severly dis-proportionate for the size of the unit. A
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 4, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          It is the tendency of re-enactment units through all periods to have officers and NCOs in numbers severly dis-proportionate for the size of the unit. A parading unit of 5-6 members containing an officer and 2-3 NCOs is simply historically incorrect. Such a unit would have been amalgamated with other like units and the excess officers sent back to their home depots. On the other hand, a set venue/display of a medical or HQ or like organization can get away with 2-3 officers and a like number of lower ranks.

          Three companies of infantry could realistically parade a Major, 3 Captains, 3 Lieutenants, 3 Ensigns, an RSM, 18 NCOs and 60 or more ORs.

          I just question the need to have the equivalent of a General and 5 Colonels when the field element usually turns out a half dozen officers of much lower rank. A ship can be commanded by Warrant Officers as well as Commisioned Officers.

          I'm not sure of the meaning of the statement that we can't have fun being commanded by a Corporal or Petty Officer? I've always enjoyed myself at events!

          Cheers,

          Ed Seufert, LCPL
          1812 Royal Marines
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: suthren@...
          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:49 PM
          Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment


          May I observe that many distinguished gentlemen parade as officers of rank
          in an organization which rarely fields what would constitute two or three
          battalion companies of actual 1812 infantry; I think we have opted to
          recognize skill level, not size of the command (be it a regiment with
          battalion, light and grenadier companies at full established strength as per
          1812, or a 12-pounder frigate, neither of which we will ever turn out).

          We could always merely turn out with senior people at the appropriate ranks
          for numbers on command; I suggest we'd rarely have morte than a Corporal on
          land or a Petty Officer afloat---and have less fun.
          Yours aye
          Vic Suthren
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Peter Catley" <peter.catley@...>
          To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 2:44 AM
          Subject: RE: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment


          > Can you have frigates on water that isn't a proper sea? :-) QED?
          >
          > P**
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Ed Seufert [mailto:LCpl_RM@...]
          > Sent: 03 August 2004 04:50
          > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
          >
          >
          > List,
          >
          > After reviewing the below list, I have to ask a question. Since a
          > Post-Captain is usually in command of nothing less than a rated ship
          (1st -
          > 6th), do we have that many Frigates to SOLs on the Great Lakes? I've
          never
          > seen any of them at events. ;-)
          >
          > Curious,
          >
          > Ed Seufert, LCpl
          > 1812 Royal Marines
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > Subject: CFNA Naval Establishment
          >
          > Naval Establishment
          > Crown Forces North America (1812)
          >
          > Subject to revision
          >
          > Admiral Commanding, the North American Station:
          > VADM Richard Price
          >
          > Post Captains:
          > Capt. Gill Bibby, Head of the Lake
          > Capt. Christopher Bagley, detached service, Upper Lakes
          > Capt. Victor Suthren, Squadron Commodore pro tem
          > Capt. Scott Shank, Flag Captain
          > Capt. James Lowrie, Upper Lakes
          >
          > Commanders:
          > Cdr. Peter Rindlisbacher, Amherstburg
          >
          > Lieutenants:
          > Lt. John Leclair, detached service, Upper Lakes
          > Lt. Mark Pergunas, Riverine Bateaux Flotilla
          > Lt. John Bayfield, Upper Lakes
          > Lt. John McCallum, detached service, R. Nfld.R.
          >
          > Senior Warrant Officers:
          > Edward Martin, Master Gunner
          > Mary Baruth, Master Gunner
          > Armand Lapointe, Senior Boatswain
          > David May, Quartermaster
          > Colin Wu, Boatswain
          >
          >
          > Ships and Vessels:
          > St. Lawrence II, flag
          > Tecumseth (in ordinary)
          > Pathfinder
          > Playfair
          > Fair Jeanne
          > Bee (in workup to sea trials)
          > Black Jack
          >
          >
          > Longboats & Bateaux:
          > Wolfe
          > Black Snake
          > Witch of A'burg
          > Rolette
          > Irvine
          > Royal George
          > Hamilton
          > Bytown Starboard Whaler
          > Bytown Port Whaler
          > Badger (detached service, Upper Lakes)
          >
          >
          > CROWN FORCES NORTH AMERICA {CFNA}
          > is the convenient name given the re-created Military Re-enactment Units of
          > BRITISH ~ CANADIAN ~ MILITIA ~ ALLIED forces located in the United
          > States and Canada. Those Military Re-enactment Units are listed at:
          > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > ADVERTISEMENT
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
          --
          > ----
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/1812CrownForces/
          >
          > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > 1812CrownForces-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
          > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
          of
          > square miles...
          >
          > Unit Contact information for North America:
          > ---------------------------------
          > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          >
          > American Forces Unit Lisiting
          > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >
          > ADVERTISEMENT
          >
          >
          <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129bgu1ob/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=gr
          >
          oups/S=1705020536:HM/EXP=1091591226/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://comp
          > anion.yahoo.com> click here
          >
          >
          <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
          > :HM/A=2128215/rand=465075796>
          >
          >
          > _____
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
          >
          >
          > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > <mailto:WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
          >
          >
          > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
          > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
          square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
          square miles...
          >
          > Unit Contact information for North America:
          > ---------------------------------
          > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          >
          > American Forces Unit Lisiting
          > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >



          The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

          Unit Contact information for North America:
          ---------------------------------
          Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

          American Forces Unit Lisiting
          http://usforces1812.tripod.com


          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          ADVERTISEMENT





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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • suthren@magma.ca
          That suggests that the Naval Establishment should either (a) downrank all leadership ranks to provide only the number of Sea Officers, Warrant Officers and
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            That suggests that the Naval Establishment should either (a) downrank all
            leadership ranks to provide only the number of Sea Officers, Warrant
            Officers and Petty Officers to suit the actual number of naval people
            entered on the CFNA books as per a representative ship's company of
            1792-1815, or (b) recruit up participants to provide sufficient numbers to
            justify the ranks now in place. In the recent June 12 School of the Sailor
            we had 40 participants and a large waiting list, which suggests naval
            reenactment may be a growth industry.

            In partial address of just those concerns LCPL Seufert raised, all
            participants at the June 12 School of the Sailor were required to
            participate in the dress of ordinary seamen, and as School Organizer I
            dressed as they did, and allowed myself only a Boatswain's Pipe as a badge
            of office, no more. One man, Peter Rindlisbacher, brought an undress
            Lieutenant's uniform at my request to allow a officer to be present during
            the run ashore, and then only. He dressed as per the fo'c'sle otherwise.

            At Toronto in 2000, when we had four sail training vessels (Royaliste, True
            North, Tecumseth, Empire Sandy), a despatch schooner, and 10 longboats,
            manned by a total of 114 seamen, tasked to land just under 100 infantry, we
            had five officers present in total, all in varieties of undress Lieutenant's
            uniform. I wore a Sub-lieutenant's coat (regs of 1812) incorrectly added to
            with epaulettes to allow some rank identification as I performed the role of
            Naval Commander. This pattern of 'dressing down' in actual events will
            continue and should help to allay concerns such as those expressed by LCPL
            Seufert.

            On paper I have promulgated rank requirements for naval rank in the CFNA
            which is based on seaborne technical knowledge, not how many people turn out
            on parade. This document should reach you soon. Land reenactors might find
            adoption of training standards for ranks, at least in the non-commissioned
            ranks and with, of course, artillery and Sappers, equally useful. Should a
            man be promoted Corporal or Sergeant unless he can demonstrate an
            established level of physical fitness and has carried out at least one
            demonstration of leadership of a body of infantry or marines on a 20-mile
            forced march within a given period of time carrying the time-honoured
            66-pound pack, and then successfully fired a minimum amount of live ball at
            a mark, run at straw figures with the bayonet, and set up an encampment, all
            before resting, thereafter? It's a thought.

            I think the naval officers will keep all their gilt and glitter for the
            wardroom or (ashore) the Mess Tent. The guys all own the stuff and it'd be a
            shame to keep it in trunks. At sea they'll look very underdressed. But each
            one will have rank because he/she actually can 'walk the talk' at sea, and I
            admit to having arbitrarily set those rank levels. If the CFNA wishes to
            pursue a policy of allowing ranks only on the historical basis of numbers of
            people present rather than skill level, the Naval Establishment will, of
            course, comply. My Sub-lieutenant's coat still fits, although it's a bit
            threadbare looking these days.....

            Yours aye
            Victor Suthren
            Squadron Commodore pro tem
            Naval Establishment
            CFNA
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Ed Seufert" <LCpl_RM@...>
            To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 10:54 PM
            Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment


            > It is the tendency of re-enactment units through all periods to have
            officers and NCOs in numbers severly dis-proportionate for the size of the
            unit. A parading unit of 5-6 members containing an officer and 2-3 NCOs is
            simply historically incorrect. Such a unit would have been amalgamated with
            other like units and the excess officers sent back to their home depots. On
            the other hand, a set venue/display of a medical or HQ or like organization
            can get away with 2-3 officers and a like number of lower ranks.
            >
            > Three companies of infantry could realistically parade a Major, 3
            Captains, 3 Lieutenants, 3 Ensigns, an RSM, 18 NCOs and 60 or more ORs.
            >
            > I just question the need to have the equivalent of a General and 5
            Colonels when the field element usually turns out a half dozen officers of
            much lower rank. A ship can be commanded by Warrant Officers as well as
            Commisioned Officers.
            >
            > I'm not sure of the meaning of the statement that we can't have fun being
            commanded by a Corporal or Petty Officer? I've always enjoyed myself at
            events!
            >
            > Cheers,
            >
            > Ed Seufert, LCPL
            > 1812 Royal Marines
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: suthren@...
            > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:49 PM
            > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
            >
            >
            > May I observe that many distinguished gentlemen parade as officers of
            rank
            > in an organization which rarely fields what would constitute two or
            three
            > battalion companies of actual 1812 infantry; I think we have opted to
            > recognize skill level, not size of the command (be it a regiment with
            > battalion, light and grenadier companies at full established strength as
            per
            > 1812, or a 12-pounder frigate, neither of which we will ever turn out).
            >
            > We could always merely turn out with senior people at the appropriate
            ranks
            > for numbers on command; I suggest we'd rarely have morte than a Corporal
            on
            > land or a Petty Officer afloat---and have less fun.
            > Yours aye
            > Vic Suthren
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Peter Catley" <peter.catley@...>
            > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 2:44 AM
            > Subject: RE: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
            >
            >
            > > Can you have frigates on water that isn't a proper sea? :-) QED?
            > >
            > > P**
            > >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: Ed Seufert [mailto:LCpl_RM@...]
            > > Sent: 03 August 2004 04:50
            > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
            > >
            > >
            > > List,
            > >
            > > After reviewing the below list, I have to ask a question. Since a
            > > Post-Captain is usually in command of nothing less than a rated ship
            > (1st -
            > > 6th), do we have that many Frigates to SOLs on the Great Lakes? I've
            > never
            > > seen any of them at events. ;-)
            > >
            > > Curious,
            > >
            > > Ed Seufert, LCpl
            > > 1812 Royal Marines
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > Subject: CFNA Naval Establishment
            > >
            > > Naval Establishment
            > > Crown Forces North America (1812)
            > >
            > > Subject to revision
            > >
            > > Admiral Commanding, the North American Station:
            > > VADM Richard Price
            > >
            > > Post Captains:
            > > Capt. Gill Bibby, Head of the Lake
            > > Capt. Christopher Bagley, detached service, Upper Lakes
            > > Capt. Victor Suthren, Squadron Commodore pro tem
            > > Capt. Scott Shank, Flag Captain
            > > Capt. James Lowrie, Upper Lakes
            > >
            > > Commanders:
            > > Cdr. Peter Rindlisbacher, Amherstburg
            > >
            > > Lieutenants:
            > > Lt. John Leclair, detached service, Upper Lakes
            > > Lt. Mark Pergunas, Riverine Bateaux Flotilla
            > > Lt. John Bayfield, Upper Lakes
            > > Lt. John McCallum, detached service, R. Nfld.R.
            > >
            > > Senior Warrant Officers:
            > > Edward Martin, Master Gunner
            > > Mary Baruth, Master Gunner
            > > Armand Lapointe, Senior Boatswain
            > > David May, Quartermaster
            > > Colin Wu, Boatswain
            > >
            > >
            > > Ships and Vessels:
            > > St. Lawrence II, flag
            > > Tecumseth (in ordinary)
            > > Pathfinder
            > > Playfair
            > > Fair Jeanne
            > > Bee (in workup to sea trials)
            > > Black Jack
            > >
            > >
            > > Longboats & Bateaux:
            > > Wolfe
            > > Black Snake
            > > Witch of A'burg
            > > Rolette
            > > Irvine
            > > Royal George
            > > Hamilton
            > > Bytown Starboard Whaler
            > > Bytown Port Whaler
            > > Badger (detached service, Upper Lakes)
            > >
            > >
            > > CROWN FORCES NORTH AMERICA {CFNA}
            > > is the convenient name given the re-created Military Re-enactment
            Units of
            > > BRITISH ~ CANADIAN ~ MILITIA ~ ALLIED forces located in the United
            > > States and Canada. Those Military Re-enactment Units are listed at:
            > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > > ADVERTISEMENT
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >


            > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > --
            > > ----
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/1812CrownForces/
            > >
            > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > 1812CrownForces-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            > Service.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
            of
            > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
            THOUSANDS
            > of
            > > square miles...
            > >
            > > Unit Contact information for North America:
            > > ---------------------------------
            > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            > >
            > > American Forces Unit Lisiting
            > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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            >
            <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129bgu1ob/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=gr
            > >
            >
            oups/S=1705020536:HM/EXP=1091591226/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://comp
            > > anion.yahoo.com> click here
            > >
            > >
            >
            <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
            > > :HM/A=2128215/rand=465075796>
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            > >
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            > >
            > >
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            > > <mailto:WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
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            > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
            > >
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            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
            of
            > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
            THOUSANDS of
            > square miles...
            > >
            > > Unit Contact information for North America:
            > > ---------------------------------
            > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            > >
            > > American Forces Unit Lisiting
            > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
            of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
            of square miles...
            >
            > Unit Contact information for North America:
            > ---------------------------------
            > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            >
            > American Forces Unit Lisiting
            > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > ADVERTISEMENT
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            >
            > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service.
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
            square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
            square miles...
            >
            > Unit Contact information for North America:
            > ---------------------------------
            > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            >
            > American Forces Unit Lisiting
            > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • BritcomHMP@aol.com
            In a message dated 04/08/2004 22:06:26 Central Standard Time, LCpl_RM@comcast.net writes: It is the tendency of re-enactment units through all periods to have
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
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              In a message dated 04/08/2004 22:06:26 Central Standard Time,
              LCpl_RM@... writes:

              It is the tendency of re-enactment units through all periods to have
              officers and NCOs in numbers severly dis-proportionate for the size of the unit. A
              parading unit of 5-6 members containing an officer and 2-3 NCOs is simply
              historically incorrect. Such a unit would have been amalgamated with other
              like units and the excess officers sent back to their home depots. On the other
              hand, a set venue/display of a medical or HQ or like organization can get
              away with 2-3 officers and a like number of lower ranks.

              Three companies of infantry could realistically parade a Major, 3 Captains,
              3 Lieutenants, 3 Ensigns, an RSM, 18 NCOs and 60 or more ORs.

              I just question the need to have the equivalent of a General and 5 Colonels
              when the field element usually turns out a half dozen officers of much lower
              rank. A ship can be commanded by Warrant Officers as well as Commisioned
              Officers.



              Well Ed.

              That's fine but how many people are willing tosubmerge their own identity at
              every event to become a battalion of detatchments in which the unit (and
              brigade) will do none of the fun battalion drills but stick to the drill
              movements that, at most, an undersized company would perform on the field?
              Of course you are quite aware that in our period NCOs did NOT give orders,
              only officers can do that and as I recall a warrant officer on land is a bit
              different to those on the seas though I would be interested in knowing the
              circumstances under which a Warrent officer could command a ship and thus be due
              the courtesy title of Captain!

              The staff ranks are not based on the numbers of men present but onthe jobs
              people do and to give the impression of an army rather than a company. Indeed
              it is true that for some staff officers much of their work takes place before
              the event so when arriving on site everything is prepared for the event, and
              on the field all the safety angles are covered.

              In the end though it is obvious that most re-enactors dont want the single
              company, if they did they wouldn't come along and form new units they would
              simply join the first one formed so we we could all dress, drill and arm alike,
              don't you think? :-)

              Cheers

              Tim


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • PEGGY MATHEWS
              (snip) Tim replies to Ed: In the end though it is obvious that most re-enactors don t want the single company, if they did they wouldn t come along and form
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
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                (snip)
                Tim replies to Ed:

                In the end though it is obvious that most re-enactors don't want the single
                company, if they did they wouldn't come along and form new units they would
                simply join the first one formed so we we could all dress, drill and arm alike,
                don't you think? :-)
                (snip)

                Me: I would suggest another possibility for some reenactors and their units. At Waterloo in '95 after forming line of battle we looked across the field to what seemed like about 70 units, all with a flag, an officer and average of 10 rankers. The fellow next to me, Mark as I recall, asked me "why don't they just form one full strength battalion instead of 70 little units?". I replied, "because this way 70 guys can say, 'I'm in charge here'."

                I especially see it in F&I or SYW reenacting (the latter just getting started) in the midwest. That's one reason I'm such an advocate of the command structure being used in 1812. You get consistency in upper leadership, know what to expect, and officers get rotated into parade functions, etc. where they gain valuable experience with larger commands. Makes the hobby stronger in the long run IMHO.

                Just a couple of observations, not criticisms.

                Michael Mathews

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Kevin Windsor
                Pardon my stupidity, but what is SYW Kevin 89th ... From: PEGGY MATHEWS To: Sent: Thursday, August 05,
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  Pardon my stupidity, but what is SYW

                  Kevin
                  89th

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "PEGGY MATHEWS" <ciefranche21e@...>
                  To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 10:35 AM
                  Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment

                  >
                  > I especially see it in F&I or SYW reenacting (the latter just getting
                  started) in the midwest.
                • Kevin Windsor
                  ... From: To: Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment Land
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: <suthren@...>
                    To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:22 AM
                    Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment

                    Land reenactors might find

                    adoption of training standards for ranks, at least in the non-commissioned
                    > ranks and with, of course, artillery and Sappers, equally useful. Should a
                    > man be promoted Corporal or Sergeant unless he can demonstrate an
                    > established level of physical fitness and has carried out at least one
                    > demonstration of leadership of a body of infantry or marines on a 20-mile
                    > forced march within a given period of time carrying the time-honoured
                    > 66-pound pack, and then successfully fired a minimum amount of live ball
                    at
                    > a mark, run at straw figures with the bayonet, and set up an encampment,
                    all
                    > before resting, thereafter? It's a thought.
                    >
                    > I think the naval officers will keep all their gilt and glitter for the
                    > wardroom or (ashore) the Mess Tent. The guys all own the stuff and it'd be
                    a
                    > shame to keep it in trunks. At sea they'll look very underdressed. But
                    each
                    > one will have rank because he/she actually can 'walk the talk' at sea, and
                    I
                    > admit to having arbitrarily set those rank levels. If the CFNA wishes to
                    > pursue a policy of allowing ranks only on the historical basis of numbers
                    of
                    > people present rather than skill level, the Naval Establishment will, of
                    > course, comply. My Sub-lieutenant's coat still fits, although it's a bit
                    > threadbare looking these days.....
                    >
                    > Yours aye
                    > Victor Suthren
                    > Squadron Commodore pro tem
                    > Naval Establishment
                    > CFNA
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "Ed Seufert" <LCpl_RM@...>
                    > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 10:54 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
                    >
                    >
                    > > It is the tendency of re-enactment units through all periods to have
                    > officers and NCOs in numbers severly dis-proportionate for the size of the
                    > unit. A parading unit of 5-6 members containing an officer and 2-3 NCOs
                    is
                    > simply historically incorrect. Such a unit would have been amalgamated
                    with
                    > other like units and the excess officers sent back to their home depots.
                    On
                    > the other hand, a set venue/display of a medical or HQ or like
                    organization
                    > can get away with 2-3 officers and a like number of lower ranks.
                    > >
                    > > Three companies of infantry could realistically parade a Major, 3
                    > Captains, 3 Lieutenants, 3 Ensigns, an RSM, 18 NCOs and 60 or more ORs.
                    > >
                    > > I just question the need to have the equivalent of a General and 5
                    > Colonels when the field element usually turns out a half dozen officers of
                    > much lower rank. A ship can be commanded by Warrant Officers as well as
                    > Commisioned Officers.
                    > >
                    > > I'm not sure of the meaning of the statement that we can't have fun
                    being
                    > commanded by a Corporal or Petty Officer? I've always enjoyed myself at
                    > events!
                    > >
                    > > Cheers,
                    > >
                    > > Ed Seufert, LCPL
                    > > 1812 Royal Marines
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: suthren@...
                    > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:49 PM
                    > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > May I observe that many distinguished gentlemen parade as officers of
                    > rank
                    > > in an organization which rarely fields what would constitute two or
                    > three
                    > > battalion companies of actual 1812 infantry; I think we have opted to
                    > > recognize skill level, not size of the command (be it a regiment with
                    > > battalion, light and grenadier companies at full established strength
                    as
                    > per
                    > > 1812, or a 12-pounder frigate, neither of which we will ever turn
                    out).
                    > >
                    > > We could always merely turn out with senior people at the appropriate
                    > ranks
                    > > for numbers on command; I suggest we'd rarely have morte than a
                    Corporal
                    > on
                    > > land or a Petty Officer afloat---and have less fun.
                    > > Yours aye
                    > > Vic Suthren
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: "Peter Catley" <peter.catley@...>
                    > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 2:44 AM
                    > > Subject: RE: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > > Can you have frigates on water that isn't a proper sea? :-) QED?
                    > > >
                    > > > P**
                    > > >
                    > > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > > From: Ed Seufert [mailto:LCpl_RM@...]
                    > > > Sent: 03 August 2004 04:50
                    > > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > Subject: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > List,
                    > > >
                    > > > After reviewing the below list, I have to ask a question. Since a
                    > > > Post-Captain is usually in command of nothing less than a rated ship
                    > > (1st -
                    > > > 6th), do we have that many Frigates to SOLs on the Great Lakes?
                    I've
                    > > never
                    > > > seen any of them at events. ;-)
                    > > >
                    > > > Curious,
                    > > >
                    > > > Ed Seufert, LCpl
                    > > > 1812 Royal Marines
                    > > >
                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > > Subject: CFNA Naval Establishment
                    > > >
                    > > > Naval Establishment
                    > > > Crown Forces North America (1812)
                    > > >
                    > > > Subject to revision
                    > > >
                    > > > Admiral Commanding, the North American Station:
                    > > > VADM Richard Price
                    > > >
                    > > > Post Captains:
                    > > > Capt. Gill Bibby, Head of the Lake
                    > > > Capt. Christopher Bagley, detached service, Upper Lakes
                    > > > Capt. Victor Suthren, Squadron Commodore pro tem
                    > > > Capt. Scott Shank, Flag Captain
                    > > > Capt. James Lowrie, Upper Lakes
                    > > >
                    > > > Commanders:
                    > > > Cdr. Peter Rindlisbacher, Amherstburg
                    > > >
                    > > > Lieutenants:
                    > > > Lt. John Leclair, detached service, Upper Lakes
                    > > > Lt. Mark Pergunas, Riverine Bateaux Flotilla
                    > > > Lt. John Bayfield, Upper Lakes
                    > > > Lt. John McCallum, detached service, R. Nfld.R.
                    > > >
                    > > > Senior Warrant Officers:
                    > > > Edward Martin, Master Gunner
                    > > > Mary Baruth, Master Gunner
                    > > > Armand Lapointe, Senior Boatswain
                    > > > David May, Quartermaster
                    > > > Colin Wu, Boatswain
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Ships and Vessels:
                    > > > St. Lawrence II, flag
                    > > > Tecumseth (in ordinary)
                    > > > Pathfinder
                    > > > Playfair
                    > > > Fair Jeanne
                    > > > Bee (in workup to sea trials)
                    > > > Black Jack
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Longboats & Bateaux:
                    > > > Wolfe
                    > > > Black Snake
                    > > > Witch of A'burg
                    > > > Rolette
                    > > > Irvine
                    > > > Royal George
                    > > > Hamilton
                    > > > Bytown Starboard Whaler
                    > > > Bytown Port Whaler
                    > > > Badger (detached service, Upper Lakes)
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > CROWN FORCES NORTH AMERICA {CFNA}
                    > > > is the convenient name given the re-created Military Re-enactment
                    > Units of
                    > > > BRITISH ~ CANADIAN ~ MILITIA ~ ALLIED forces located in the United
                    > > > States and Canada. Those Military Re-enactment Units are listed at:
                    > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                    > > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > > > ADVERTISEMENT
                    > > >
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                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                    > > > ----
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/1812CrownForces/
                    > > >
                    > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > > 1812CrownForces-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > > >
                    > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    > > Service.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                    hundreds
                    > of
                    > > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                    > THOUSANDS
                    > > of
                    > > > square miles...
                    > > >
                    > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                    > > > ---------------------------------
                    > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                    > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                    > > >
                    > > > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                    > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > > >
                    > > > ADVERTISEMENT
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129bgu1ob/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=gr
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    oups/S=1705020536:HM/EXP=1091591226/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://comp
                    > > > anion.yahoo.com> click here
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
                    > > > :HM/A=2128215/rand=465075796>
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > _____
                    > > >
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > <mailto:WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    Service
                    > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                    hundreds
                    > of
                    > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                    > THOUSANDS of
                    > > square miles...
                    > > >
                    > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                    > > > ---------------------------------
                    > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                    > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                    > > >
                    > > > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                    > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
                    > of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                    THOUSANDS
                    > of square miles...
                    > >
                    > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                    > > ---------------------------------
                    > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                    > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                    > >
                    > > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                    > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > > ADVERTISEMENT
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > ----
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
                    > >
                    > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > >
                    > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    > Service.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
                    of
                    > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
                    of
                    > square miles...
                    > >
                    > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                    > > ---------------------------------
                    > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                    > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                    > >
                    > > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                    > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                    square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                    square miles...
                    >
                    > Unit Contact information for North America:
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                    > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                    >
                    > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                    > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • ray.hobbs@sympatico.ca
                    Tis ignorance , not stupidity , Kevin. Yeah, what is SYW? Ray Hobbs 41st Regt ... Pardon my stupidity, but what is SYW Kevin 89th ... From: PEGGY MATHEWS
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      'Tis "ignorance", not "stupidity", Kevin.
                      Yeah, what is SYW?
                      Ray Hobbs
                      41st Regt

                      > From: "Kevin Windsor" <kevin.windsor@...>
                      > Date: 2004/08/05 Thu PM 05:51:30 EST
                      > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
                      >
                      Pardon my stupidity, but what is SYW

                      Kevin
                      89th

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "PEGGY MATHEWS" <ciefranche21e@...>
                      To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 10:35 AM
                      Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment

                      >
                      > I especially see it in F&I or SYW reenacting (the latter just getting
                      started) in the midwest.


                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • PEGGY MATHEWS
                      No stupid questions Kev, just too many coded phrases out there in e-mail land. The affairs in Europe concurrent with the French and Indian Wars, aka. the Seven
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        No stupid questions Kev, just too many coded phrases out there in e-mail land.

                        The affairs in Europe concurrent with the French and Indian Wars, aka. the Seven Years War. Some talk of planning a "big" event that would involve units from Europe coming over to play.

                        So no natives or colonial troops. We'll see if it happens or not.

                        Michael Mathews

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Kevin Windsor<mailto:kevin.windsor@...>
                        To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:51 PM
                        Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment


                        Pardon my stupidity, but what is SYW

                        Kevin
                        89th

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "PEGGY MATHEWS" <ciefranche21e@...<mailto:ciefranche21e@...>>
                        To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>>
                        Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 10:35 AM
                        Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment

                        >
                        > I especially see it in F&I or SYW reenacting (the latter just getting
                        started) in the midwest.



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                        In a message dated 05/08/2004 16:56:35 Central Standard Time, ray.hobbs@sympatico.ca writes: Tis ignorance , not stupidity , Kevin. Yeah, what is SYW?
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          In a message dated 05/08/2004 16:56:35 Central Standard Time,
                          ray.hobbs@... writes:

                          'Tis "ignorance", not "stupidity", Kevin.
                          Yeah, what is SYW?



                          Seven Years War, the period usualy known as F&I but concentrating on the
                          European theatre (and using the accepted name). Of course the REAL short hand
                          for SYW should be 'WW1'!

                          Cheers

                          Tim


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • PEGGY MATHEWS
                          (snip) Seven Years War, the period usualy known as F&I but concentrating on the European theatre (and using the accepted name). Of course the REAL short hand
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
                          • 0 Attachment
                            (snip)

                            Seven Years War, the period usualy known as F&I but concentrating on the
                            European theatre (and using the accepted name). Of course the REAL short hand
                            for SYW should be 'WW1'!

                            Cheers

                            Tim


                            Indeed, in fact I've often wondered why the name never took hold. I suppose the concept of a global conflict didn't exist in anyone's mind yet.

                            Michael M.

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Ed Seufert
                            ... From: BritcomHMP@aol.com To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment The
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 6, 2004
                            • 0 Attachment
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: BritcomHMP@...
                              To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 9:17 AM
                              Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment

                              The staff ranks are not based on the numbers of men present but on the jobs
                              people do and to give the impression of an army rather than a company. Indeed
                              it is true that for some staff officers much of their work takes place before
                              the event so when arriving on site everything is prepared for the event, and
                              on the field all the safety angles are covered.

                              Tim,

                              I have the greatest admiration for staff. How else can I go to events and enjoy myself!
                              Truthfully I do realize the need and do appreciate what they do.

                              In the end though it is obvious that most re-enactors dont want the single
                              company, if they did they wouldn't come along and form new units they would
                              simply join the first one formed so we we could all dress, drill and arm alike,
                              don't you think? :-)
                              Geez Tim! That sounds like it would be .....UNIFORM!
                              In re-enacting; no way! 8^)

                              Cheers,
                              Ed

                              The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                              Unit Contact information for North America:
                              ---------------------------------
                              Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                              http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                              American Forces Unit Lisiting
                              http://usforces1812.tripod.com



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