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RE: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment

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  • Peter Catley
    Can you have frigates on water that isn t a proper sea? :-) QED? P** ... From: Ed Seufert [mailto:LCpl_RM@comcast.net] Sent: 03 August 2004 04:50 To:
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 2, 2004
      Can you have frigates on water that isn't a proper sea? :-) QED?

      P**

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Ed Seufert [mailto:LCpl_RM@...]
      Sent: 03 August 2004 04:50
      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment


      List,

      After reviewing the below list, I have to ask a question. Since a
      Post-Captain is usually in command of nothing less than a rated ship (1st -
      6th), do we have that many Frigates to SOLs on the Great Lakes? I've never
      seen any of them at events. ;-)

      Curious,

      Ed Seufert, LCpl
      1812 Royal Marines

      ----- Original Message -----
      Subject: CFNA Naval Establishment

      Naval Establishment
      Crown Forces North America (1812)

      Subject to revision

      Admiral Commanding, the North American Station:
      VADM Richard Price

      Post Captains:
      Capt. Gill Bibby, Head of the Lake
      Capt. Christopher Bagley, detached service, Upper Lakes
      Capt. Victor Suthren, Squadron Commodore pro tem
      Capt. Scott Shank, Flag Captain
      Capt. James Lowrie, Upper Lakes

      Commanders:
      Cdr. Peter Rindlisbacher, Amherstburg

      Lieutenants:
      Lt. John Leclair, detached service, Upper Lakes
      Lt. Mark Pergunas, Riverine Bateaux Flotilla
      Lt. John Bayfield, Upper Lakes
      Lt. John McCallum, detached service, R. Nfld.R.

      Senior Warrant Officers:
      Edward Martin, Master Gunner
      Mary Baruth, Master Gunner
      Armand Lapointe, Senior Boatswain
      David May, Quartermaster
      Colin Wu, Boatswain


      Ships and Vessels:
      St. Lawrence II, flag
      Tecumseth (in ordinary)
      Pathfinder
      Playfair
      Fair Jeanne
      Bee (in workup to sea trials)
      Black Jack


      Longboats & Bateaux:
      Wolfe
      Black Snake
      Witch of A'burg
      Rolette
      Irvine
      Royal George
      Hamilton
      Bytown Starboard Whaler
      Bytown Port Whaler
      Badger (detached service, Upper Lakes)


      CROWN FORCES NORTH AMERICA {CFNA}
      is the convenient name given the re-created Military Re-enactment Units of
      BRITISH ~ CANADIAN ~ MILITIA ~ ALLIED forces located in the United
      States and Canada. Those Military Re-enactment Units are listed at:
      http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=




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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
      square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
      square miles...

      Unit Contact information for North America:
      ---------------------------------
      Crown Forces Unit Listing:
      http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

      American Forces Unit Lisiting
      http://usforces1812.tripod.com



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    • Kevin Windsor
      Actually by the end of the War the Navy was building the HMS St Lawrence and the HMS Canada at 104 guns To give you an idea of how wide Lake Ontario is, I live
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 3, 2004
        Actually by the end of the War the Navy was building the HMS St Lawrence and
        the HMS Canada at 104 guns
        To give you an idea of how wide Lake Ontario is, I live in Niagara Falls
        which is the middle of the Niagara River (connecting Lake Erie to Lake
        Ontario) at the Lake Ontario end is the Forts George and Niagara. To get
        across the lake from Niagara to Toronto is a distance of 52 km. To drive
        from Niagara to Toronto is 120 km. It's a big lake, but in fact the
        smallest of the Great Lakes (not counting Lake St Clair).

        Go to
        http://www.great-lakes.net/lakes/ref/lakefact.html

        Kevin
        ----- Original Message -----



        > Can you have frigates on water that isn't a proper sea? :-) QED?
        >
        > P**
      • suthren@magma.ca
        May I observe that many distinguished gentlemen parade as officers of rank in an organization which rarely fields what would constitute two or three battalion
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 4, 2004
          May I observe that many distinguished gentlemen parade as officers of rank
          in an organization which rarely fields what would constitute two or three
          battalion companies of actual 1812 infantry; I think we have opted to
          recognize skill level, not size of the command (be it a regiment with
          battalion, light and grenadier companies at full established strength as per
          1812, or a 12-pounder frigate, neither of which we will ever turn out).

          We could always merely turn out with senior people at the appropriate ranks
          for numbers on command; I suggest we'd rarely have morte than a Corporal on
          land or a Petty Officer afloat---and have less fun.
          Yours aye
          Vic Suthren
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Peter Catley" <peter.catley@...>
          To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 2:44 AM
          Subject: RE: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment


          > Can you have frigates on water that isn't a proper sea? :-) QED?
          >
          > P**
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Ed Seufert [mailto:LCpl_RM@...]
          > Sent: 03 August 2004 04:50
          > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
          >
          >
          > List,
          >
          > After reviewing the below list, I have to ask a question. Since a
          > Post-Captain is usually in command of nothing less than a rated ship
          (1st -
          > 6th), do we have that many Frigates to SOLs on the Great Lakes? I've
          never
          > seen any of them at events. ;-)
          >
          > Curious,
          >
          > Ed Seufert, LCpl
          > 1812 Royal Marines
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > Subject: CFNA Naval Establishment
          >
          > Naval Establishment
          > Crown Forces North America (1812)
          >
          > Subject to revision
          >
          > Admiral Commanding, the North American Station:
          > VADM Richard Price
          >
          > Post Captains:
          > Capt. Gill Bibby, Head of the Lake
          > Capt. Christopher Bagley, detached service, Upper Lakes
          > Capt. Victor Suthren, Squadron Commodore pro tem
          > Capt. Scott Shank, Flag Captain
          > Capt. James Lowrie, Upper Lakes
          >
          > Commanders:
          > Cdr. Peter Rindlisbacher, Amherstburg
          >
          > Lieutenants:
          > Lt. John Leclair, detached service, Upper Lakes
          > Lt. Mark Pergunas, Riverine Bateaux Flotilla
          > Lt. John Bayfield, Upper Lakes
          > Lt. John McCallum, detached service, R. Nfld.R.
          >
          > Senior Warrant Officers:
          > Edward Martin, Master Gunner
          > Mary Baruth, Master Gunner
          > Armand Lapointe, Senior Boatswain
          > David May, Quartermaster
          > Colin Wu, Boatswain
          >
          >
          > Ships and Vessels:
          > St. Lawrence II, flag
          > Tecumseth (in ordinary)
          > Pathfinder
          > Playfair
          > Fair Jeanne
          > Bee (in workup to sea trials)
          > Black Jack
          >
          >
          > Longboats & Bateaux:
          > Wolfe
          > Black Snake
          > Witch of A'burg
          > Rolette
          > Irvine
          > Royal George
          > Hamilton
          > Bytown Starboard Whaler
          > Bytown Port Whaler
          > Badger (detached service, Upper Lakes)
          >
          >
          > CROWN FORCES NORTH AMERICA {CFNA}
          > is the convenient name given the re-created Military Re-enactment Units of
          > BRITISH ~ CANADIAN ~ MILITIA ~ ALLIED forces located in the United
          > States and Canada. Those Military Re-enactment Units are listed at:
          > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > ADVERTISEMENT
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
          --
          > ----
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/1812CrownForces/
          >
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          >
          > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
          > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
          of
          > square miles...
          >
          > Unit Contact information for North America:
          > ---------------------------------
          > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          >
          > American Forces Unit Lisiting
          > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >
          > ADVERTISEMENT
          >
          >
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          >
          oups/S=1705020536:HM/EXP=1091591226/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://comp
          > anion.yahoo.com> click here
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          > :HM/A=2128215/rand=465075796>
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          >
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          > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
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          > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
          square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
          square miles...
          >
          > Unit Contact information for North America:
          > ---------------------------------
          > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          >
          > American Forces Unit Lisiting
          > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Ed Seufert
          It is the tendency of re-enactment units through all periods to have officers and NCOs in numbers severly dis-proportionate for the size of the unit. A
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 4, 2004
            It is the tendency of re-enactment units through all periods to have officers and NCOs in numbers severly dis-proportionate for the size of the unit. A parading unit of 5-6 members containing an officer and 2-3 NCOs is simply historically incorrect. Such a unit would have been amalgamated with other like units and the excess officers sent back to their home depots. On the other hand, a set venue/display of a medical or HQ or like organization can get away with 2-3 officers and a like number of lower ranks.

            Three companies of infantry could realistically parade a Major, 3 Captains, 3 Lieutenants, 3 Ensigns, an RSM, 18 NCOs and 60 or more ORs.

            I just question the need to have the equivalent of a General and 5 Colonels when the field element usually turns out a half dozen officers of much lower rank. A ship can be commanded by Warrant Officers as well as Commisioned Officers.

            I'm not sure of the meaning of the statement that we can't have fun being commanded by a Corporal or Petty Officer? I've always enjoyed myself at events!

            Cheers,

            Ed Seufert, LCPL
            1812 Royal Marines
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: suthren@...
            To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:49 PM
            Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment


            May I observe that many distinguished gentlemen parade as officers of rank
            in an organization which rarely fields what would constitute two or three
            battalion companies of actual 1812 infantry; I think we have opted to
            recognize skill level, not size of the command (be it a regiment with
            battalion, light and grenadier companies at full established strength as per
            1812, or a 12-pounder frigate, neither of which we will ever turn out).

            We could always merely turn out with senior people at the appropriate ranks
            for numbers on command; I suggest we'd rarely have morte than a Corporal on
            land or a Petty Officer afloat---and have less fun.
            Yours aye
            Vic Suthren
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Peter Catley" <peter.catley@...>
            To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 2:44 AM
            Subject: RE: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment


            > Can you have frigates on water that isn't a proper sea? :-) QED?
            >
            > P**
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Ed Seufert [mailto:LCpl_RM@...]
            > Sent: 03 August 2004 04:50
            > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
            >
            >
            > List,
            >
            > After reviewing the below list, I have to ask a question. Since a
            > Post-Captain is usually in command of nothing less than a rated ship
            (1st -
            > 6th), do we have that many Frigates to SOLs on the Great Lakes? I've
            never
            > seen any of them at events. ;-)
            >
            > Curious,
            >
            > Ed Seufert, LCpl
            > 1812 Royal Marines
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > Subject: CFNA Naval Establishment
            >
            > Naval Establishment
            > Crown Forces North America (1812)
            >
            > Subject to revision
            >
            > Admiral Commanding, the North American Station:
            > VADM Richard Price
            >
            > Post Captains:
            > Capt. Gill Bibby, Head of the Lake
            > Capt. Christopher Bagley, detached service, Upper Lakes
            > Capt. Victor Suthren, Squadron Commodore pro tem
            > Capt. Scott Shank, Flag Captain
            > Capt. James Lowrie, Upper Lakes
            >
            > Commanders:
            > Cdr. Peter Rindlisbacher, Amherstburg
            >
            > Lieutenants:
            > Lt. John Leclair, detached service, Upper Lakes
            > Lt. Mark Pergunas, Riverine Bateaux Flotilla
            > Lt. John Bayfield, Upper Lakes
            > Lt. John McCallum, detached service, R. Nfld.R.
            >
            > Senior Warrant Officers:
            > Edward Martin, Master Gunner
            > Mary Baruth, Master Gunner
            > Armand Lapointe, Senior Boatswain
            > David May, Quartermaster
            > Colin Wu, Boatswain
            >
            >
            > Ships and Vessels:
            > St. Lawrence II, flag
            > Tecumseth (in ordinary)
            > Pathfinder
            > Playfair
            > Fair Jeanne
            > Bee (in workup to sea trials)
            > Black Jack
            >
            >
            > Longboats & Bateaux:
            > Wolfe
            > Black Snake
            > Witch of A'burg
            > Rolette
            > Irvine
            > Royal George
            > Hamilton
            > Bytown Starboard Whaler
            > Bytown Port Whaler
            > Badger (detached service, Upper Lakes)
            >
            >
            > CROWN FORCES NORTH AMERICA {CFNA}
            > is the convenient name given the re-created Military Re-enactment Units of
            > BRITISH ~ CANADIAN ~ MILITIA ~ ALLIED forces located in the United
            > States and Canada. Those Military Re-enactment Units are listed at:
            > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > ADVERTISEMENT
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
            --
            > ----
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/1812CrownForces/
            >
            > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > 1812CrownForces-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
            > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
            of
            > square miles...
            >
            > Unit Contact information for North America:
            > ---------------------------------
            > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            >
            > American Forces Unit Lisiting
            > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            >
            > ADVERTISEMENT
            >
            >
            <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129bgu1ob/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=gr
            >
            oups/S=1705020536:HM/EXP=1091591226/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://comp
            > anion.yahoo.com> click here
            >
            >
            <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
            > :HM/A=2128215/rand=465075796>
            >
            >
            > _____
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
            >
            >
            > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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            > <mailto:WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
            >
            >
            > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
            > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
            square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
            square miles...
            >
            > Unit Contact information for North America:
            > ---------------------------------
            > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            >
            > American Forces Unit Lisiting
            > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >



            The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

            Unit Contact information for North America:
            ---------------------------------
            Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

            American Forces Unit Lisiting
            http://usforces1812.tripod.com


            Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            ADVERTISEMENT





            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Yahoo! Groups Links

            a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

            b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • suthren@magma.ca
            That suggests that the Naval Establishment should either (a) downrank all leadership ranks to provide only the number of Sea Officers, Warrant Officers and
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
              That suggests that the Naval Establishment should either (a) downrank all
              leadership ranks to provide only the number of Sea Officers, Warrant
              Officers and Petty Officers to suit the actual number of naval people
              entered on the CFNA books as per a representative ship's company of
              1792-1815, or (b) recruit up participants to provide sufficient numbers to
              justify the ranks now in place. In the recent June 12 School of the Sailor
              we had 40 participants and a large waiting list, which suggests naval
              reenactment may be a growth industry.

              In partial address of just those concerns LCPL Seufert raised, all
              participants at the June 12 School of the Sailor were required to
              participate in the dress of ordinary seamen, and as School Organizer I
              dressed as they did, and allowed myself only a Boatswain's Pipe as a badge
              of office, no more. One man, Peter Rindlisbacher, brought an undress
              Lieutenant's uniform at my request to allow a officer to be present during
              the run ashore, and then only. He dressed as per the fo'c'sle otherwise.

              At Toronto in 2000, when we had four sail training vessels (Royaliste, True
              North, Tecumseth, Empire Sandy), a despatch schooner, and 10 longboats,
              manned by a total of 114 seamen, tasked to land just under 100 infantry, we
              had five officers present in total, all in varieties of undress Lieutenant's
              uniform. I wore a Sub-lieutenant's coat (regs of 1812) incorrectly added to
              with epaulettes to allow some rank identification as I performed the role of
              Naval Commander. This pattern of 'dressing down' in actual events will
              continue and should help to allay concerns such as those expressed by LCPL
              Seufert.

              On paper I have promulgated rank requirements for naval rank in the CFNA
              which is based on seaborne technical knowledge, not how many people turn out
              on parade. This document should reach you soon. Land reenactors might find
              adoption of training standards for ranks, at least in the non-commissioned
              ranks and with, of course, artillery and Sappers, equally useful. Should a
              man be promoted Corporal or Sergeant unless he can demonstrate an
              established level of physical fitness and has carried out at least one
              demonstration of leadership of a body of infantry or marines on a 20-mile
              forced march within a given period of time carrying the time-honoured
              66-pound pack, and then successfully fired a minimum amount of live ball at
              a mark, run at straw figures with the bayonet, and set up an encampment, all
              before resting, thereafter? It's a thought.

              I think the naval officers will keep all their gilt and glitter for the
              wardroom or (ashore) the Mess Tent. The guys all own the stuff and it'd be a
              shame to keep it in trunks. At sea they'll look very underdressed. But each
              one will have rank because he/she actually can 'walk the talk' at sea, and I
              admit to having arbitrarily set those rank levels. If the CFNA wishes to
              pursue a policy of allowing ranks only on the historical basis of numbers of
              people present rather than skill level, the Naval Establishment will, of
              course, comply. My Sub-lieutenant's coat still fits, although it's a bit
              threadbare looking these days.....

              Yours aye
              Victor Suthren
              Squadron Commodore pro tem
              Naval Establishment
              CFNA
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Ed Seufert" <LCpl_RM@...>
              To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 10:54 PM
              Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment


              > It is the tendency of re-enactment units through all periods to have
              officers and NCOs in numbers severly dis-proportionate for the size of the
              unit. A parading unit of 5-6 members containing an officer and 2-3 NCOs is
              simply historically incorrect. Such a unit would have been amalgamated with
              other like units and the excess officers sent back to their home depots. On
              the other hand, a set venue/display of a medical or HQ or like organization
              can get away with 2-3 officers and a like number of lower ranks.
              >
              > Three companies of infantry could realistically parade a Major, 3
              Captains, 3 Lieutenants, 3 Ensigns, an RSM, 18 NCOs and 60 or more ORs.
              >
              > I just question the need to have the equivalent of a General and 5
              Colonels when the field element usually turns out a half dozen officers of
              much lower rank. A ship can be commanded by Warrant Officers as well as
              Commisioned Officers.
              >
              > I'm not sure of the meaning of the statement that we can't have fun being
              commanded by a Corporal or Petty Officer? I've always enjoyed myself at
              events!
              >
              > Cheers,
              >
              > Ed Seufert, LCPL
              > 1812 Royal Marines
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: suthren@...
              > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:49 PM
              > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
              >
              >
              > May I observe that many distinguished gentlemen parade as officers of
              rank
              > in an organization which rarely fields what would constitute two or
              three
              > battalion companies of actual 1812 infantry; I think we have opted to
              > recognize skill level, not size of the command (be it a regiment with
              > battalion, light and grenadier companies at full established strength as
              per
              > 1812, or a 12-pounder frigate, neither of which we will ever turn out).
              >
              > We could always merely turn out with senior people at the appropriate
              ranks
              > for numbers on command; I suggest we'd rarely have morte than a Corporal
              on
              > land or a Petty Officer afloat---and have less fun.
              > Yours aye
              > Vic Suthren
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Peter Catley" <peter.catley@...>
              > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 2:44 AM
              > Subject: RE: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
              >
              >
              > > Can you have frigates on water that isn't a proper sea? :-) QED?
              > >
              > > P**
              > >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: Ed Seufert [mailto:LCpl_RM@...]
              > > Sent: 03 August 2004 04:50
              > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
              > >
              > >
              > > List,
              > >
              > > After reviewing the below list, I have to ask a question. Since a
              > > Post-Captain is usually in command of nothing less than a rated ship
              > (1st -
              > > 6th), do we have that many Frigates to SOLs on the Great Lakes? I've
              > never
              > > seen any of them at events. ;-)
              > >
              > > Curious,
              > >
              > > Ed Seufert, LCpl
              > > 1812 Royal Marines
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > Subject: CFNA Naval Establishment
              > >
              > > Naval Establishment
              > > Crown Forces North America (1812)
              > >
              > > Subject to revision
              > >
              > > Admiral Commanding, the North American Station:
              > > VADM Richard Price
              > >
              > > Post Captains:
              > > Capt. Gill Bibby, Head of the Lake
              > > Capt. Christopher Bagley, detached service, Upper Lakes
              > > Capt. Victor Suthren, Squadron Commodore pro tem
              > > Capt. Scott Shank, Flag Captain
              > > Capt. James Lowrie, Upper Lakes
              > >
              > > Commanders:
              > > Cdr. Peter Rindlisbacher, Amherstburg
              > >
              > > Lieutenants:
              > > Lt. John Leclair, detached service, Upper Lakes
              > > Lt. Mark Pergunas, Riverine Bateaux Flotilla
              > > Lt. John Bayfield, Upper Lakes
              > > Lt. John McCallum, detached service, R. Nfld.R.
              > >
              > > Senior Warrant Officers:
              > > Edward Martin, Master Gunner
              > > Mary Baruth, Master Gunner
              > > Armand Lapointe, Senior Boatswain
              > > David May, Quartermaster
              > > Colin Wu, Boatswain
              > >
              > >
              > > Ships and Vessels:
              > > St. Lawrence II, flag
              > > Tecumseth (in ordinary)
              > > Pathfinder
              > > Playfair
              > > Fair Jeanne
              > > Bee (in workup to sea trials)
              > > Black Jack
              > >
              > >
              > > Longboats & Bateaux:
              > > Wolfe
              > > Black Snake
              > > Witch of A'burg
              > > Rolette
              > > Irvine
              > > Royal George
              > > Hamilton
              > > Bytown Starboard Whaler
              > > Bytown Port Whaler
              > > Badger (detached service, Upper Lakes)
              > >
              > >
              > > CROWN FORCES NORTH AMERICA {CFNA}
              > > is the convenient name given the re-created Military Re-enactment
              Units of
              > > BRITISH ~ CANADIAN ~ MILITIA ~ ALLIED forces located in the United
              > > States and Canada. Those Military Re-enactment Units are listed at:
              > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > > ADVERTISEMENT
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >


              > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > --
              > > ----
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/1812CrownForces/
              > >
              > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > 1812CrownForces-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > >
              > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              > Service.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
              of
              > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
              THOUSANDS
              > of
              > > square miles...
              > >
              > > Unit Contact information for North America:
              > > ---------------------------------
              > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              > >
              > > American Forces Unit Lisiting
              > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > >
              > > ADVERTISEMENT
              > >
              > >
              >
              <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129bgu1ob/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=gr
              > >
              >
              oups/S=1705020536:HM/EXP=1091591226/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://comp
              > > anion.yahoo.com> click here
              > >
              > >
              >
              <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
              > > :HM/A=2128215/rand=465075796>
              > >
              > >
              > > _____
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
              > >
              > >
              > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > <mailto:WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
              > >
              > >
              > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
              > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
              of
              > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
              THOUSANDS of
              > square miles...
              > >
              > > Unit Contact information for North America:
              > > ---------------------------------
              > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              > >
              > > American Forces Unit Lisiting
              > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
              of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
              of square miles...
              >
              > Unit Contact information for North America:
              > ---------------------------------
              > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              >
              > American Forces Unit Lisiting
              > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > ADVERTISEMENT
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
              ----
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
              >
              > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
              square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
              square miles...
              >
              > Unit Contact information for North America:
              > ---------------------------------
              > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              >
              > American Forces Unit Lisiting
              > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • BritcomHMP@aol.com
              In a message dated 04/08/2004 22:06:26 Central Standard Time, LCpl_RM@comcast.net writes: It is the tendency of re-enactment units through all periods to have
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
                In a message dated 04/08/2004 22:06:26 Central Standard Time,
                LCpl_RM@... writes:

                It is the tendency of re-enactment units through all periods to have
                officers and NCOs in numbers severly dis-proportionate for the size of the unit. A
                parading unit of 5-6 members containing an officer and 2-3 NCOs is simply
                historically incorrect. Such a unit would have been amalgamated with other
                like units and the excess officers sent back to their home depots. On the other
                hand, a set venue/display of a medical or HQ or like organization can get
                away with 2-3 officers and a like number of lower ranks.

                Three companies of infantry could realistically parade a Major, 3 Captains,
                3 Lieutenants, 3 Ensigns, an RSM, 18 NCOs and 60 or more ORs.

                I just question the need to have the equivalent of a General and 5 Colonels
                when the field element usually turns out a half dozen officers of much lower
                rank. A ship can be commanded by Warrant Officers as well as Commisioned
                Officers.



                Well Ed.

                That's fine but how many people are willing tosubmerge their own identity at
                every event to become a battalion of detatchments in which the unit (and
                brigade) will do none of the fun battalion drills but stick to the drill
                movements that, at most, an undersized company would perform on the field?
                Of course you are quite aware that in our period NCOs did NOT give orders,
                only officers can do that and as I recall a warrant officer on land is a bit
                different to those on the seas though I would be interested in knowing the
                circumstances under which a Warrent officer could command a ship and thus be due
                the courtesy title of Captain!

                The staff ranks are not based on the numbers of men present but onthe jobs
                people do and to give the impression of an army rather than a company. Indeed
                it is true that for some staff officers much of their work takes place before
                the event so when arriving on site everything is prepared for the event, and
                on the field all the safety angles are covered.

                In the end though it is obvious that most re-enactors dont want the single
                company, if they did they wouldn't come along and form new units they would
                simply join the first one formed so we we could all dress, drill and arm alike,
                don't you think? :-)

                Cheers

                Tim


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • PEGGY MATHEWS
                (snip) Tim replies to Ed: In the end though it is obvious that most re-enactors don t want the single company, if they did they wouldn t come along and form
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
                  (snip)
                  Tim replies to Ed:

                  In the end though it is obvious that most re-enactors don't want the single
                  company, if they did they wouldn't come along and form new units they would
                  simply join the first one formed so we we could all dress, drill and arm alike,
                  don't you think? :-)
                  (snip)

                  Me: I would suggest another possibility for some reenactors and their units. At Waterloo in '95 after forming line of battle we looked across the field to what seemed like about 70 units, all with a flag, an officer and average of 10 rankers. The fellow next to me, Mark as I recall, asked me "why don't they just form one full strength battalion instead of 70 little units?". I replied, "because this way 70 guys can say, 'I'm in charge here'."

                  I especially see it in F&I or SYW reenacting (the latter just getting started) in the midwest. That's one reason I'm such an advocate of the command structure being used in 1812. You get consistency in upper leadership, know what to expect, and officers get rotated into parade functions, etc. where they gain valuable experience with larger commands. Makes the hobby stronger in the long run IMHO.

                  Just a couple of observations, not criticisms.

                  Michael Mathews

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Kevin Windsor
                  Pardon my stupidity, but what is SYW Kevin 89th ... From: PEGGY MATHEWS To: Sent: Thursday, August 05,
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
                    Pardon my stupidity, but what is SYW

                    Kevin
                    89th

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "PEGGY MATHEWS" <ciefranche21e@...>
                    To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 10:35 AM
                    Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment

                    >
                    > I especially see it in F&I or SYW reenacting (the latter just getting
                    started) in the midwest.
                  • Kevin Windsor
                    ... From: To: Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment Land
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: <suthren@...>
                      To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:22 AM
                      Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment

                      Land reenactors might find

                      adoption of training standards for ranks, at least in the non-commissioned
                      > ranks and with, of course, artillery and Sappers, equally useful. Should a
                      > man be promoted Corporal or Sergeant unless he can demonstrate an
                      > established level of physical fitness and has carried out at least one
                      > demonstration of leadership of a body of infantry or marines on a 20-mile
                      > forced march within a given period of time carrying the time-honoured
                      > 66-pound pack, and then successfully fired a minimum amount of live ball
                      at
                      > a mark, run at straw figures with the bayonet, and set up an encampment,
                      all
                      > before resting, thereafter? It's a thought.
                      >
                      > I think the naval officers will keep all their gilt and glitter for the
                      > wardroom or (ashore) the Mess Tent. The guys all own the stuff and it'd be
                      a
                      > shame to keep it in trunks. At sea they'll look very underdressed. But
                      each
                      > one will have rank because he/she actually can 'walk the talk' at sea, and
                      I
                      > admit to having arbitrarily set those rank levels. If the CFNA wishes to
                      > pursue a policy of allowing ranks only on the historical basis of numbers
                      of
                      > people present rather than skill level, the Naval Establishment will, of
                      > course, comply. My Sub-lieutenant's coat still fits, although it's a bit
                      > threadbare looking these days.....
                      >
                      > Yours aye
                      > Victor Suthren
                      > Squadron Commodore pro tem
                      > Naval Establishment
                      > CFNA
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "Ed Seufert" <LCpl_RM@...>
                      > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 10:54 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
                      >
                      >
                      > > It is the tendency of re-enactment units through all periods to have
                      > officers and NCOs in numbers severly dis-proportionate for the size of the
                      > unit. A parading unit of 5-6 members containing an officer and 2-3 NCOs
                      is
                      > simply historically incorrect. Such a unit would have been amalgamated
                      with
                      > other like units and the excess officers sent back to their home depots.
                      On
                      > the other hand, a set venue/display of a medical or HQ or like
                      organization
                      > can get away with 2-3 officers and a like number of lower ranks.
                      > >
                      > > Three companies of infantry could realistically parade a Major, 3
                      > Captains, 3 Lieutenants, 3 Ensigns, an RSM, 18 NCOs and 60 or more ORs.
                      > >
                      > > I just question the need to have the equivalent of a General and 5
                      > Colonels when the field element usually turns out a half dozen officers of
                      > much lower rank. A ship can be commanded by Warrant Officers as well as
                      > Commisioned Officers.
                      > >
                      > > I'm not sure of the meaning of the statement that we can't have fun
                      being
                      > commanded by a Corporal or Petty Officer? I've always enjoyed myself at
                      > events!
                      > >
                      > > Cheers,
                      > >
                      > > Ed Seufert, LCPL
                      > > 1812 Royal Marines
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: suthren@...
                      > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:49 PM
                      > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > May I observe that many distinguished gentlemen parade as officers of
                      > rank
                      > > in an organization which rarely fields what would constitute two or
                      > three
                      > > battalion companies of actual 1812 infantry; I think we have opted to
                      > > recognize skill level, not size of the command (be it a regiment with
                      > > battalion, light and grenadier companies at full established strength
                      as
                      > per
                      > > 1812, or a 12-pounder frigate, neither of which we will ever turn
                      out).
                      > >
                      > > We could always merely turn out with senior people at the appropriate
                      > ranks
                      > > for numbers on command; I suggest we'd rarely have morte than a
                      Corporal
                      > on
                      > > land or a Petty Officer afloat---and have less fun.
                      > > Yours aye
                      > > Vic Suthren
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: "Peter Catley" <peter.catley@...>
                      > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 2:44 AM
                      > > Subject: RE: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > > Can you have frigates on water that isn't a proper sea? :-) QED?
                      > > >
                      > > > P**
                      > > >
                      > > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > > From: Ed Seufert [mailto:LCpl_RM@...]
                      > > > Sent: 03 August 2004 04:50
                      > > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > Subject: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > List,
                      > > >
                      > > > After reviewing the below list, I have to ask a question. Since a
                      > > > Post-Captain is usually in command of nothing less than a rated ship
                      > > (1st -
                      > > > 6th), do we have that many Frigates to SOLs on the Great Lakes?
                      I've
                      > > never
                      > > > seen any of them at events. ;-)
                      > > >
                      > > > Curious,
                      > > >
                      > > > Ed Seufert, LCpl
                      > > > 1812 Royal Marines
                      > > >
                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > > Subject: CFNA Naval Establishment
                      > > >
                      > > > Naval Establishment
                      > > > Crown Forces North America (1812)
                      > > >
                      > > > Subject to revision
                      > > >
                      > > > Admiral Commanding, the North American Station:
                      > > > VADM Richard Price
                      > > >
                      > > > Post Captains:
                      > > > Capt. Gill Bibby, Head of the Lake
                      > > > Capt. Christopher Bagley, detached service, Upper Lakes
                      > > > Capt. Victor Suthren, Squadron Commodore pro tem
                      > > > Capt. Scott Shank, Flag Captain
                      > > > Capt. James Lowrie, Upper Lakes
                      > > >
                      > > > Commanders:
                      > > > Cdr. Peter Rindlisbacher, Amherstburg
                      > > >
                      > > > Lieutenants:
                      > > > Lt. John Leclair, detached service, Upper Lakes
                      > > > Lt. Mark Pergunas, Riverine Bateaux Flotilla
                      > > > Lt. John Bayfield, Upper Lakes
                      > > > Lt. John McCallum, detached service, R. Nfld.R.
                      > > >
                      > > > Senior Warrant Officers:
                      > > > Edward Martin, Master Gunner
                      > > > Mary Baruth, Master Gunner
                      > > > Armand Lapointe, Senior Boatswain
                      > > > David May, Quartermaster
                      > > > Colin Wu, Boatswain
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Ships and Vessels:
                      > > > St. Lawrence II, flag
                      > > > Tecumseth (in ordinary)
                      > > > Pathfinder
                      > > > Playfair
                      > > > Fair Jeanne
                      > > > Bee (in workup to sea trials)
                      > > > Black Jack
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Longboats & Bateaux:
                      > > > Wolfe
                      > > > Black Snake
                      > > > Witch of A'burg
                      > > > Rolette
                      > > > Irvine
                      > > > Royal George
                      > > > Hamilton
                      > > > Bytown Starboard Whaler
                      > > > Bytown Port Whaler
                      > > > Badger (detached service, Upper Lakes)
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > CROWN FORCES NORTH AMERICA {CFNA}
                      > > > is the convenient name given the re-created Military Re-enactment
                      > Units of
                      > > > BRITISH ~ CANADIAN ~ MILITIA ~ ALLIED forces located in the United
                      > > > States and Canada. Those Military Re-enactment Units are listed at:
                      > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                      > > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      > > > ADVERTISEMENT
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > > --
                      > > > ----
                      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > >
                      > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/1812CrownForces/
                      > > >
                      > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > > > 1812CrownForces-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > > >
                      > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      > > Service.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                      hundreds
                      > of
                      > > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                      > THOUSANDS
                      > > of
                      > > > square miles...
                      > > >
                      > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                      > > > ---------------------------------
                      > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                      > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                      > > >
                      > > > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                      > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      > > >
                      > > > ADVERTISEMENT
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                      <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129bgu1ob/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=gr
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                      oups/S=1705020536:HM/EXP=1091591226/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://comp
                      > > > anion.yahoo.com> click here
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                      <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
                      > > > :HM/A=2128215/rand=465075796>
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > _____
                      > > >
                      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > > > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > <mailto:WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      Service
                      > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                      hundreds
                      > of
                      > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                      > THOUSANDS of
                      > > square miles...
                      > > >
                      > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                      > > > ---------------------------------
                      > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                      > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                      > > >
                      > > > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                      > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
                      > of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                      THOUSANDS
                      > of square miles...
                      > >
                      > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                      > > ---------------------------------
                      > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                      > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                      > >
                      > > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                      > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      > > ADVERTISEMENT
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > ----
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
                      > >
                      > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > >
                      > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      > Service.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
                      of
                      > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
                      of
                      > square miles...
                      > >
                      > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                      > > ---------------------------------
                      > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                      > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                      > >
                      > > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                      > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                      square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                      square miles...
                      >
                      > Unit Contact information for North America:
                      > ---------------------------------
                      > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                      > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                      >
                      > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                      > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • ray.hobbs@sympatico.ca
                      Tis ignorance , not stupidity , Kevin. Yeah, what is SYW? Ray Hobbs 41st Regt ... Pardon my stupidity, but what is SYW Kevin 89th ... From: PEGGY MATHEWS
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
                        'Tis "ignorance", not "stupidity", Kevin.
                        Yeah, what is SYW?
                        Ray Hobbs
                        41st Regt

                        > From: "Kevin Windsor" <kevin.windsor@...>
                        > Date: 2004/08/05 Thu PM 05:51:30 EST
                        > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
                        >
                        Pardon my stupidity, but what is SYW

                        Kevin
                        89th

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "PEGGY MATHEWS" <ciefranche21e@...>
                        To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 10:35 AM
                        Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment

                        >
                        > I especially see it in F&I or SYW reenacting (the latter just getting
                        started) in the midwest.


                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • PEGGY MATHEWS
                        No stupid questions Kev, just too many coded phrases out there in e-mail land. The affairs in Europe concurrent with the French and Indian Wars, aka. the Seven
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
                          No stupid questions Kev, just too many coded phrases out there in e-mail land.

                          The affairs in Europe concurrent with the French and Indian Wars, aka. the Seven Years War. Some talk of planning a "big" event that would involve units from Europe coming over to play.

                          So no natives or colonial troops. We'll see if it happens or not.

                          Michael Mathews

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Kevin Windsor<mailto:kevin.windsor@...>
                          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:51 PM
                          Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment


                          Pardon my stupidity, but what is SYW

                          Kevin
                          89th

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "PEGGY MATHEWS" <ciefranche21e@...<mailto:ciefranche21e@...>>
                          To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>>
                          Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 10:35 AM
                          Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment

                          >
                          > I especially see it in F&I or SYW reenacting (the latter just getting
                          started) in the midwest.



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                          In a message dated 05/08/2004 16:56:35 Central Standard Time, ray.hobbs@sympatico.ca writes: Tis ignorance , not stupidity , Kevin. Yeah, what is SYW?
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
                            In a message dated 05/08/2004 16:56:35 Central Standard Time,
                            ray.hobbs@... writes:

                            'Tis "ignorance", not "stupidity", Kevin.
                            Yeah, what is SYW?



                            Seven Years War, the period usualy known as F&I but concentrating on the
                            European theatre (and using the accepted name). Of course the REAL short hand
                            for SYW should be 'WW1'!

                            Cheers

                            Tim


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • PEGGY MATHEWS
                            (snip) Seven Years War, the period usualy known as F&I but concentrating on the European theatre (and using the accepted name). Of course the REAL short hand
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
                              (snip)

                              Seven Years War, the period usualy known as F&I but concentrating on the
                              European theatre (and using the accepted name). Of course the REAL short hand
                              for SYW should be 'WW1'!

                              Cheers

                              Tim


                              Indeed, in fact I've often wondered why the name never took hold. I suppose the concept of a global conflict didn't exist in anyone's mind yet.

                              Michael M.

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Ed Seufert
                              ... From: BritcomHMP@aol.com To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment The
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 6, 2004
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: BritcomHMP@...
                                To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 9:17 AM
                                Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment

                                The staff ranks are not based on the numbers of men present but on the jobs
                                people do and to give the impression of an army rather than a company. Indeed
                                it is true that for some staff officers much of their work takes place before
                                the event so when arriving on site everything is prepared for the event, and
                                on the field all the safety angles are covered.

                                Tim,

                                I have the greatest admiration for staff. How else can I go to events and enjoy myself!
                                Truthfully I do realize the need and do appreciate what they do.

                                In the end though it is obvious that most re-enactors dont want the single
                                company, if they did they wouldn't come along and form new units they would
                                simply join the first one formed so we we could all dress, drill and arm alike,
                                don't you think? :-)
                                Geez Tim! That sounds like it would be .....UNIFORM!
                                In re-enacting; no way! 8^)

                                Cheers,
                                Ed

                                The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                                Unit Contact information for North America:
                                ---------------------------------
                                Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                                http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                                American Forces Unit Lisiting
                                http://usforces1812.tripod.com



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