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Safety???

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  • Sean
    Safety!!! Somebody had to go and bring that up, eh? (Sorry, Canadian! The Eh! was bound to rear its head sooner or later!) But, yes someone had to go and
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 3, 1998
      Safety!!!

      Somebody had to go and bring that up, eh? (Sorry, Canadian! The "Eh!" was
      bound to rear its head sooner or later!)

      But, yes someone had to go and mention that most contentious of issues,
      safety! Everyone has different views on the subject and no one ever sees to
      want to change their views even when presented with valid and viable proof
      to counter the argument. So who will be the first to step boldly into this
      void.

      I am what some might call a bit of a radical on this topic so I'll not
      speak my mind just yet. But hey! Let's hear it, folks! Where would this new
      governing body stand on this flammable topic? How would decisions be made
      when nobody can agree even now? Can anything ever really be settled on?

      Hey, maybe I'm playing in Falstaff's merry fashion to bring this to the
      table (so to speak) like this, but let's hear it!
    • James Burrill
      Safety is such a lovely topic. It is amazing that we all agree we support the goals, but we can almost come to blows over what those goals are. I would like to
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 3, 1998
        Safety is such a lovely topic. It is amazing that we all agree we
        support the goals, but we can almost come to blows over what those
        goals are.

        I would like to offer that we break the topic of safety into separate
        issues. It would be easier to refer to messages if we break the
        messages into topics, like " Safety: Ramrods" and the like.

        I would like to start the list with a few "contentious points" that I
        have seen over the years and across the centuries.

        ( I would like to make clear that my list of time periods in the bio
        message were not meant to imply I was something special....just to say
        I sewed and collected the kits for those periods. One other point
        though....At least I have had exposure to some very diverse safety
        rules!)

        Ok, here's the list:

        Ramrods: Ram the first volley or not.
        Remove the ramrod from the musket before taking the field?
        Use ramrods for firing displays for the public with no
        opposing force opposite your line?

        Wadding: Can Cavalry use paper wadding to hold charges in the barrel
        of pistols and slung carbines?
        Can Inf. use wadding on first volley for a louder bang to
        start the show?
        Can Inf. use wadding at any time?

        Bayonets Can a body of troops move with bayonets fixed?
        Can a body of troops start an assault with fixed bayonets
        and remove them before closing with the enemy?
        Can you break into a run for the last part of a charge with
        bayonets fixed and then recover before ending the
        charge?

        Artillery How close can Inf. come to the muzzle of a cannon, "die"
        and lay under a firing gun?
        How can you safely "overrun" an artillery position?

        Cavalry Can cavalry have drawn sabers when they attack Inf.?
        Can Inf. have fixed bayonets when cavalry attacks?
        How do Cavalry want the Inf. to react if a horse gets loose
        on the field?
        Infantry When we say "elevate" because troops are approaching, some
        people elevate to 45 degrees and it looks like they
        are duck shooting. Do we need to be this obvious?
        Can two sides actually close and mix it up?
        Does "mix it up" mean just mean moving amongst the other
        side, or does it mean limited hand-to hand.
        Does "hand to hand" mean fake butt strokes or grappling
        and rolling on the ground?

        Camps Can you use straw inside your tent for bedding (as concerns
        fire hazard)
        Can you use straw outside around your tent against rain and
        wind?

        Loading from the horn - I think some folks think this means pouring
        powder directly from a horn into the muzzle like in some
        old Fess Parker movies from the 1950's. I must say that I
        have never had a hot flash up the barrel with a torn-open
        cartridge in 19 years of the hobby either.. Anyway, if you
        are pouring from a horn into a measure, THEN from the
        measure to the muzzle, I don't see a problem. When I do
        ECW,we pour our charges from an apostle into the barrel,
        and prime from a flask. (and with burning slowmatch in my
        hand!!!)

        Artillery I think as an infantry person, I would honor the safety
        regs the Artillery folks already use, especially ACW. They
        have the largest population of firable guns and more
        "booms per season" than any three other time periods
        combined. So I would think we should adopt their guidelines.

        OK. Those are the ones that come to mind on the first cut.

        For what it's worth, as silly as some of these questions may seem, I
        have seen otherwise adult reenactors act like children arguing over
        these very same questions.

        Your turn.

        TTFN
        Jim
      • Roger Fuller
        Dear Jim and List, Well, here are my thoughts meant in a jocular (not a jugular ) vein on this topic, after all. I don t wish to offend anyone, (and I hope
        Message 3 of 4 , Nov 3, 1998
          Dear Jim and List,

          Well, here are my thoughts meant in a jocular (not a jugular<G>) vein on
          this topic, after all. I don't wish to offend anyone, (and I hope they won't
          be) but this is what I feel my unit should do or not do, acc. to my limited
          exp. in AWI reenacting as a BAR member. I am open, however, to different
          views....

          > Ok, here's the list:
          >
          > Ramrods: Ram the first volley or not.
          > Remove the ramrod from the musket before taking the field?
          > Use ramrods for firing displays for the public with no
          > opposing force opposite your line?

          No ramrods used when firing, period. Rammers stay in the pipes. Ramrods may
          be used in demonstrating the Manual of Arms (without powder) before the
          public.

          >
          > Wadding: Can Cavalry use paper wadding to hold charges in the barrel
          > of pistols and slung carbines?

          That's a good question- I don't know the answer to that one.

          > Can Inf. use wadding on first volley for a louder bang to
          > start the show?
          Nope.
          > Can Inf. use wadding at any time?

          Ix-nay, and no stapled cartridges dropped down the barrel, either.
          >
          > Bayonets Can a body of troops move with bayonets fixed?

          Yes, but, only in a pre-determined and explained (to all in the field)
          scenario.

          > Can a body of troops start an assault with fixed bayonets
          > and remove them before closing with the enemy?

          I haven't seen that done, but IMHO I wouldn't do it. Too messy in manoeuvres
          and safety. The rankers will be concentrating too much on when are they
          going to unfix, rather than being careful when advancing with levelled
          bayonets. At Quebec this August I saw some hothead on the Brit. side doing
          an about-face in ranks (two-deep) with a levelled bayonet!!! (I sincerely
          hope he has left the hobby for good!)

          > Can you break into a run for the last part of a charge with
          > bayonets fixed and then recover before ending the
          > charge?

          A while back I was in a 1775 Redcoat unit that used to demonstrate such a
          tactic at NPS (!!) Bunker Hill. I always hated doing it, not so much because
          I was scared of skewering the public, but because I was concerned I might
          slip and hurt myself or my neighbor (we advanced in VERY close order...). It
          was just one of the issues that made me finally say "Later" to this group.
          >
          > Artillery How close can Inf. come to the muzzle of a cannon, "die"
          > and lay under a firing gun?

          I'd rather not, if I could help it.

          > How can you safely "overrun" an artillery position?

          Outflank it!
          >
          > Cavalry Can cavalry have drawn sabers when they attack Inf.?
          > Can Inf. have fixed bayonets when cavalry attacks?
          > How do Cavalry want the Inf. to react if a horse gets loose
          > on the field?

          As a RevWar guy up to now, I've had little experience with four-legged fools
          on the field. Two-legged ones- that's another matter!<GGG> I must defer to
          my ACW and more experienced Nap. colleagues on that one.

          > Infantry When we say "elevate" because troops are approaching, some
          > people elevate to 45 degrees and it looks like they
          > are duck shooting. Do we need to be this obvious?

          Yes, it looks dopey. But...it's a judgment call, but I'd sooner err on the
          side of safety than deal with our boys in blue, OR WORSE, the suits with the
          briefcases....

          > Can two sides actually close and mix it up?

          No. You never know who's still fighting a given war in his/her mind.

          > Does "mix it up" mean just mean moving amongst the other
          > side, or does it mean limited hand-to hand.

          "Mix it up" means to me: both sides salute each other, shake hands, and go
          have a beer with each other AFTER they put the guns away.

          > Does "hand to hand" mean fake butt strokes or grappling
          > and rolling on the ground?

          I can see personal injury lawyers salivating on this one....<GGGG> Hell, no,
          is my basic feeling on this one, unless it's been carefully scripted by
          participants who know each other and their skills well.

          >
          > Camps Can you use straw inside your tent for bedding (as concerns
          > fire hazard)

          Only inside, NOT between tents, NO flames in tents at all- all cartridges
          and horns should be pre-filled before events.

          > Can you use straw outside around your tent against rain and
          > wind?

          Only up against the inside. There is a big debate as to whether we should
          even have straw- where would you have got it from in the 18th cent. on
          campaign, anyway? (At least we got rid of the damned lantern stakes outside
          the tents, anyway- privates would not have been allowed to bring them along
          in the baggage wagons, even if they could have afforded them...)
          >
          > Loading from the horn - I think some folks think this means pouring
          > powder directly from a horn into the muzzle like in some
          > old Fess Parker movies from the 1950's.

          Not for this cowboy! <VBG> From the brass measure only!

          > I must say that I
          > have never had a hot flash up the barrel with a torn-open
          > cartridge in 19 years of the hobby either.. Anyway, if you
          > are pouring from a horn into a measure, THEN from the
          > measure to the muzzle, I don't see a problem. When I do
          > ECW,we pour our charges from an apostle into the barrel,
          > and prime from a flask. (and with burning slowmatch in my
          > hand!!!)

          WOW! That truly sounds interesting, and I've always wanted to do that.
          Someday, I suppose.
          >
          > Artillery I think as an infantry person, I would honor the safety
          > regs the Artillery folks already use, especially ACW. They
          > have the largest population of firable guns and more
          > "booms per season" than any three other time periods
          > combined. So I would think we should adopt their guidelines.

          As an infantry person, I defer to them and stay away from their weapons.
          They know a lot more about them than I. I've read, however, twice in the
          papers in the past year of artillerists in ACW suffering injuries from
          firing, so, frontally, I stay away from cannon, esp. on the field.
          >
          > OK. Those are the ones that come to mind on the first cut.
          >
          > For what it's worth, as silly as some of these questions may seem, I
          > have seen otherwise adult reenactors act like children arguing over
          > these very same questions.

          I agree fully. But I think it's good to get the views out ahead of time in
          fora such as these, to save hassles on the field later.
          >
          > Your turn.
          >
          > TTFN
          > Jim

          Taken, and I thank you.

          Roger
          3/95th Foot
        • NINETY3RD@aol.com
          Here are the basic Safety Regs used by my unit, the 93rd. As these are for within our infantry unit, it does not address cavalry or artillery issues per se.
          Message 4 of 4 , Nov 3, 1998
            Here are the basic Safety Regs used by my unit, the 93rd. As these are for
            within our infantry unit, it does not address cavalry or artillery issues per
            se.

            SAFETY REGULATIONS
            1. Always treat any firearm as if it is loaded with live ammunition.

            2. No drinking of alcoholic beverages before or during a firing event, nor
            during the day of any opposing sides reenactments. Excessive drinking and/or
            use of controlled substances shall not be tolerated.

            3. No smoking while handling black powder ammunition or gunpowder in any form
            of container. Powder must not be handled within twenty feet of an open fire or
            flame.

            4. No loading of firearms directly from a powder horn, flask, or other
            container. All loading shall be done using only period style cartridges
            carried in an approved leather cartridge box. Blank cartridges shall not
            contain staples or any matter other than powder, paper and perhaps binding
            string. When possible, blanks should be rolled in blue paper to identify them
            as such as in accordance with period regulations. NO live ammunition shall
            ever be carried for any reason unless on an approved live-shoot event, and
            then only immediately before moving to the firing range. All live rounds will
            be immediately removed after the live fire is finished. Cartridges shall not
            contain more than 120 grains of powder.

            5. All firearms used at an event shall be inspected for suitability,
            mechanical condition and cleanliness prior to the beginning of an event by the
            senior officer present or designated safety officer. Any firearm not passing
            inspection will not be allowed to be fired and/or used until the problems
            connected with the firearm are corrected and presented again for inspection.

            6. Prior to the firing of weapons the ignition system shall be checked by the
            snapping of at least 2 caps or the striking of a pan of powder.

            7. There shall be no clearing or firing of weapons except during designated
            times or by command of senior officer. Vocal warning shall preceed the
            discharge of any firearm being cleared.

            8. No ramrods shall be used during a combat event.

            9. Units engaged shall not fire closer than 15 yards and the minimum firing
            elevation shall be 20 degrees.

            10. All firearms shall be equipped with flashguard and frizzen cover.
            (flintlocks)

            11. No edged weapons shall be carried unsheathed or in fixed position except
            as scripted or by order of senior officer. Pikes, halberds, standard points
            and officers� swords carried as per regulation are excepted.

            12. There shall be no unrehearsed hand to hand combat simulations, thrown
            objects, projectiles or grenades.

            13. Ramrods shall be sprung in their barrels to insure the weapon is empty at
            the end of each firing event.

            14. Campfires shall be properly constructed to minimize possible spread and
            should be supervised as much as possible. Every precaution is to be taken with
            regard to the risk of fire. At least 2 water buckets shall be kept full at
            all times at each campfire.

            15. No food or drink prepared at or brought to an event shall be given, sold
            or traded to any of the general public.

            16. No one except Unit members and their invited guests are allowed inside our
            tents. The camp if at all possible should never be left completely
            unattended.

            17. No firearms on static display shall have bayonets fixed except when
            �piled� by regulation.

            18. Minimum age to carry a firearm is 16 years old. All minors must have
            written parental approval and be accompanied by an adult who is responsible
            for the minor.

            19. Any animals must be kept under close control at all times & must not be
            allowed to roam loose. Dogs are to be kept on a lead at all times. Owners are
            required to immediately clear up all droppings.
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