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Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment

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  • Larry Lozon
    ... From: suthren@magma.ca To: Larry Lozon Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 3:15 PM Subject: CFNA Naval Establishment I d be pleased if you might post this where
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 27, 2004
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      As Commanded please be informed:

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: suthren@...
      To: Larry Lozon
      Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 3:15 PM
      Subject: CFNA Naval Establishment


      I'd be pleased if you might post this where appropriate


      Yours aye


      _____________

      Naval Establishment
      Crown Forces North America (1812)

      Subject to revision

      Admiral Commanding, the North American Station:
      VADM Richard Price

      Post Captains:
      Capt. Gill Bibby, Head of the Lake
      Capt. Christopher Bagley, detached service, Upper Lakes
      Capt. Victor Suthren, Squadron Commodore pro tem
      Capt. Scott Shank, Flag Captain
      Capt. James Lowrie, Upper Lakes

      Commanders:
      Cdr. Peter Rindlisbacher, Amherstburg

      Lieutenants:
      Lt. John Leclair, detached service, Upper Lakes
      Lt. Mark Pergunas, Riverine Bateaux Flotilla
      Lt. John Bayfield, Upper Lakes
      Lt. John McCallum, detached service, R. Nfld.R.

      Senior Warrant Officers:
      Edward Martin, Master Gunner
      Mary Baruth, Master Gunner
      Armand Lapointe, Senior Boatswain
      David May, Quartermaster
      Colin Wu, Boatswain


      Ships and Vessels:
      St. Lawrence II, flag
      Tecumseth (in ordinary)
      Pathfinder
      Playfair
      Fair Jeanne
      Bee (in workup to sea trials)
      Black Jack


      Longboats & Bateaux:
      Wolfe
      Black Snake
      Witch of A'burg
      Rolette
      Irvine
      Royal George
      Hamilton
      Bytown Starboard Whaler
      Bytown Port Whaler
      Badger (detached service, Upper Lakes)

      These returns subject to adjustment as circumstances and
      information may warrant. Given the 28th day of July 2004.


      Victor Suthren
      Captain
      Squadron Commodore pro tem
      Naval Establishment
      Crown Forces North America (1812)
      suthren@...




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ed Seufert
      List, After reviewing the below list, I have to ask a question. Since a Post-Captain is usually in command of nothing less than a rated ship (1st - 6th), do
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 2, 2004
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        List,

        After reviewing the below list, I have to ask a question. Since a Post-Captain is usually in command of nothing less than a rated ship (1st - 6th), do we have that many Frigates to SOLs on the Great Lakes? I've never seen any of them at events. ;-)

        Curious,

        Ed Seufert, LCpl
        1812 Royal Marines

        ----- Original Message -----
        Subject: CFNA Naval Establishment

        Naval Establishment
        Crown Forces North America (1812)

        Subject to revision

        Admiral Commanding, the North American Station:
        VADM Richard Price

        Post Captains:
        Capt. Gill Bibby, Head of the Lake
        Capt. Christopher Bagley, detached service, Upper Lakes
        Capt. Victor Suthren, Squadron Commodore pro tem
        Capt. Scott Shank, Flag Captain
        Capt. James Lowrie, Upper Lakes

        Commanders:
        Cdr. Peter Rindlisbacher, Amherstburg

        Lieutenants:
        Lt. John Leclair, detached service, Upper Lakes
        Lt. Mark Pergunas, Riverine Bateaux Flotilla
        Lt. John Bayfield, Upper Lakes
        Lt. John McCallum, detached service, R. Nfld.R.

        Senior Warrant Officers:
        Edward Martin, Master Gunner
        Mary Baruth, Master Gunner
        Armand Lapointe, Senior Boatswain
        David May, Quartermaster
        Colin Wu, Boatswain


        Ships and Vessels:
        St. Lawrence II, flag
        Tecumseth (in ordinary)
        Pathfinder
        Playfair
        Fair Jeanne
        Bee (in workup to sea trials)
        Black Jack


        Longboats & Bateaux:
        Wolfe
        Black Snake
        Witch of A'burg
        Rolette
        Irvine
        Royal George
        Hamilton
        Bytown Starboard Whaler
        Bytown Port Whaler
        Badger (detached service, Upper Lakes)


        CROWN FORCES NORTH AMERICA {CFNA}
        is the convenient name given the re-created Military Re-enactment Units of
        BRITISH ~ CANADIAN ~ MILITIA ~ ALLIED forces located in the United
        States and Canada. Those Military Re-enactment Units are listed at:
        http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
        =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=




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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Peter Catley
        Can you have frigates on water that isn t a proper sea? :-) QED? P** ... From: Ed Seufert [mailto:LCpl_RM@comcast.net] Sent: 03 August 2004 04:50 To:
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 2, 2004
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          Can you have frigates on water that isn't a proper sea? :-) QED?

          P**

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Ed Seufert [mailto:LCpl_RM@...]
          Sent: 03 August 2004 04:50
          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment


          List,

          After reviewing the below list, I have to ask a question. Since a
          Post-Captain is usually in command of nothing less than a rated ship (1st -
          6th), do we have that many Frigates to SOLs on the Great Lakes? I've never
          seen any of them at events. ;-)

          Curious,

          Ed Seufert, LCpl
          1812 Royal Marines

          ----- Original Message -----
          Subject: CFNA Naval Establishment

          Naval Establishment
          Crown Forces North America (1812)

          Subject to revision

          Admiral Commanding, the North American Station:
          VADM Richard Price

          Post Captains:
          Capt. Gill Bibby, Head of the Lake
          Capt. Christopher Bagley, detached service, Upper Lakes
          Capt. Victor Suthren, Squadron Commodore pro tem
          Capt. Scott Shank, Flag Captain
          Capt. James Lowrie, Upper Lakes

          Commanders:
          Cdr. Peter Rindlisbacher, Amherstburg

          Lieutenants:
          Lt. John Leclair, detached service, Upper Lakes
          Lt. Mark Pergunas, Riverine Bateaux Flotilla
          Lt. John Bayfield, Upper Lakes
          Lt. John McCallum, detached service, R. Nfld.R.

          Senior Warrant Officers:
          Edward Martin, Master Gunner
          Mary Baruth, Master Gunner
          Armand Lapointe, Senior Boatswain
          David May, Quartermaster
          Colin Wu, Boatswain


          Ships and Vessels:
          St. Lawrence II, flag
          Tecumseth (in ordinary)
          Pathfinder
          Playfair
          Fair Jeanne
          Bee (in workup to sea trials)
          Black Jack


          Longboats & Bateaux:
          Wolfe
          Black Snake
          Witch of A'burg
          Rolette
          Irvine
          Royal George
          Hamilton
          Bytown Starboard Whaler
          Bytown Port Whaler
          Badger (detached service, Upper Lakes)


          CROWN FORCES NORTH AMERICA {CFNA}
          is the convenient name given the re-created Military Re-enactment Units of
          BRITISH ~ CANADIAN ~ MILITIA ~ ALLIED forces located in the United
          States and Canada. Those Military Re-enactment Units are listed at:
          http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=




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          ADVERTISEMENT





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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
          square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
          square miles...

          Unit Contact information for North America:
          ---------------------------------
          Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

          American Forces Unit Lisiting
          http://usforces1812.tripod.com



          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Kevin Windsor
          Actually by the end of the War the Navy was building the HMS St Lawrence and the HMS Canada at 104 guns To give you an idea of how wide Lake Ontario is, I live
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 3, 2004
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            Actually by the end of the War the Navy was building the HMS St Lawrence and
            the HMS Canada at 104 guns
            To give you an idea of how wide Lake Ontario is, I live in Niagara Falls
            which is the middle of the Niagara River (connecting Lake Erie to Lake
            Ontario) at the Lake Ontario end is the Forts George and Niagara. To get
            across the lake from Niagara to Toronto is a distance of 52 km. To drive
            from Niagara to Toronto is 120 km. It's a big lake, but in fact the
            smallest of the Great Lakes (not counting Lake St Clair).

            Go to
            http://www.great-lakes.net/lakes/ref/lakefact.html

            Kevin
            ----- Original Message -----



            > Can you have frigates on water that isn't a proper sea? :-) QED?
            >
            > P**
          • suthren@magma.ca
            May I observe that many distinguished gentlemen parade as officers of rank in an organization which rarely fields what would constitute two or three battalion
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 4, 2004
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              May I observe that many distinguished gentlemen parade as officers of rank
              in an organization which rarely fields what would constitute two or three
              battalion companies of actual 1812 infantry; I think we have opted to
              recognize skill level, not size of the command (be it a regiment with
              battalion, light and grenadier companies at full established strength as per
              1812, or a 12-pounder frigate, neither of which we will ever turn out).

              We could always merely turn out with senior people at the appropriate ranks
              for numbers on command; I suggest we'd rarely have morte than a Corporal on
              land or a Petty Officer afloat---and have less fun.
              Yours aye
              Vic Suthren
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Peter Catley" <peter.catley@...>
              To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 2:44 AM
              Subject: RE: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment


              > Can you have frigates on water that isn't a proper sea? :-) QED?
              >
              > P**
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Ed Seufert [mailto:LCpl_RM@...]
              > Sent: 03 August 2004 04:50
              > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
              >
              >
              > List,
              >
              > After reviewing the below list, I have to ask a question. Since a
              > Post-Captain is usually in command of nothing less than a rated ship
              (1st -
              > 6th), do we have that many Frigates to SOLs on the Great Lakes? I've
              never
              > seen any of them at events. ;-)
              >
              > Curious,
              >
              > Ed Seufert, LCpl
              > 1812 Royal Marines
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > Subject: CFNA Naval Establishment
              >
              > Naval Establishment
              > Crown Forces North America (1812)
              >
              > Subject to revision
              >
              > Admiral Commanding, the North American Station:
              > VADM Richard Price
              >
              > Post Captains:
              > Capt. Gill Bibby, Head of the Lake
              > Capt. Christopher Bagley, detached service, Upper Lakes
              > Capt. Victor Suthren, Squadron Commodore pro tem
              > Capt. Scott Shank, Flag Captain
              > Capt. James Lowrie, Upper Lakes
              >
              > Commanders:
              > Cdr. Peter Rindlisbacher, Amherstburg
              >
              > Lieutenants:
              > Lt. John Leclair, detached service, Upper Lakes
              > Lt. Mark Pergunas, Riverine Bateaux Flotilla
              > Lt. John Bayfield, Upper Lakes
              > Lt. John McCallum, detached service, R. Nfld.R.
              >
              > Senior Warrant Officers:
              > Edward Martin, Master Gunner
              > Mary Baruth, Master Gunner
              > Armand Lapointe, Senior Boatswain
              > David May, Quartermaster
              > Colin Wu, Boatswain
              >
              >
              > Ships and Vessels:
              > St. Lawrence II, flag
              > Tecumseth (in ordinary)
              > Pathfinder
              > Playfair
              > Fair Jeanne
              > Bee (in workup to sea trials)
              > Black Jack
              >
              >
              > Longboats & Bateaux:
              > Wolfe
              > Black Snake
              > Witch of A'burg
              > Rolette
              > Irvine
              > Royal George
              > Hamilton
              > Bytown Starboard Whaler
              > Bytown Port Whaler
              > Badger (detached service, Upper Lakes)
              >
              >
              > CROWN FORCES NORTH AMERICA {CFNA}
              > is the convenient name given the re-created Military Re-enactment Units of
              > BRITISH ~ CANADIAN ~ MILITIA ~ ALLIED forces located in the United
              > States and Canada. Those Military Re-enactment Units are listed at:
              > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > ADVERTISEMENT
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
              --
              > ----
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/1812CrownForces/
              >
              > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > 1812CrownForces-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
              > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
              of
              > square miles...
              >
              > Unit Contact information for North America:
              > ---------------------------------
              > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              >
              > American Forces Unit Lisiting
              > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              >
              > ADVERTISEMENT
              >
              >
              <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129bgu1ob/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=gr
              >
              oups/S=1705020536:HM/EXP=1091591226/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://comp
              > anion.yahoo.com> click here
              >
              >
              <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
              > :HM/A=2128215/rand=465075796>
              >
              >
              > _____
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
              >
              >
              > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > <mailto:WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
              >
              >
              > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
              > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
              square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
              square miles...
              >
              > Unit Contact information for North America:
              > ---------------------------------
              > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              >
              > American Forces Unit Lisiting
              > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Ed Seufert
              It is the tendency of re-enactment units through all periods to have officers and NCOs in numbers severly dis-proportionate for the size of the unit. A
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 4, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                It is the tendency of re-enactment units through all periods to have officers and NCOs in numbers severly dis-proportionate for the size of the unit. A parading unit of 5-6 members containing an officer and 2-3 NCOs is simply historically incorrect. Such a unit would have been amalgamated with other like units and the excess officers sent back to their home depots. On the other hand, a set venue/display of a medical or HQ or like organization can get away with 2-3 officers and a like number of lower ranks.

                Three companies of infantry could realistically parade a Major, 3 Captains, 3 Lieutenants, 3 Ensigns, an RSM, 18 NCOs and 60 or more ORs.

                I just question the need to have the equivalent of a General and 5 Colonels when the field element usually turns out a half dozen officers of much lower rank. A ship can be commanded by Warrant Officers as well as Commisioned Officers.

                I'm not sure of the meaning of the statement that we can't have fun being commanded by a Corporal or Petty Officer? I've always enjoyed myself at events!

                Cheers,

                Ed Seufert, LCPL
                1812 Royal Marines
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: suthren@...
                To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:49 PM
                Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment


                May I observe that many distinguished gentlemen parade as officers of rank
                in an organization which rarely fields what would constitute two or three
                battalion companies of actual 1812 infantry; I think we have opted to
                recognize skill level, not size of the command (be it a regiment with
                battalion, light and grenadier companies at full established strength as per
                1812, or a 12-pounder frigate, neither of which we will ever turn out).

                We could always merely turn out with senior people at the appropriate ranks
                for numbers on command; I suggest we'd rarely have morte than a Corporal on
                land or a Petty Officer afloat---and have less fun.
                Yours aye
                Vic Suthren
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Peter Catley" <peter.catley@...>
                To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 2:44 AM
                Subject: RE: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment


                > Can you have frigates on water that isn't a proper sea? :-) QED?
                >
                > P**
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Ed Seufert [mailto:LCpl_RM@...]
                > Sent: 03 August 2004 04:50
                > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
                >
                >
                > List,
                >
                > After reviewing the below list, I have to ask a question. Since a
                > Post-Captain is usually in command of nothing less than a rated ship
                (1st -
                > 6th), do we have that many Frigates to SOLs on the Great Lakes? I've
                never
                > seen any of them at events. ;-)
                >
                > Curious,
                >
                > Ed Seufert, LCpl
                > 1812 Royal Marines
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > Subject: CFNA Naval Establishment
                >
                > Naval Establishment
                > Crown Forces North America (1812)
                >
                > Subject to revision
                >
                > Admiral Commanding, the North American Station:
                > VADM Richard Price
                >
                > Post Captains:
                > Capt. Gill Bibby, Head of the Lake
                > Capt. Christopher Bagley, detached service, Upper Lakes
                > Capt. Victor Suthren, Squadron Commodore pro tem
                > Capt. Scott Shank, Flag Captain
                > Capt. James Lowrie, Upper Lakes
                >
                > Commanders:
                > Cdr. Peter Rindlisbacher, Amherstburg
                >
                > Lieutenants:
                > Lt. John Leclair, detached service, Upper Lakes
                > Lt. Mark Pergunas, Riverine Bateaux Flotilla
                > Lt. John Bayfield, Upper Lakes
                > Lt. John McCallum, detached service, R. Nfld.R.
                >
                > Senior Warrant Officers:
                > Edward Martin, Master Gunner
                > Mary Baruth, Master Gunner
                > Armand Lapointe, Senior Boatswain
                > David May, Quartermaster
                > Colin Wu, Boatswain
                >
                >
                > Ships and Vessels:
                > St. Lawrence II, flag
                > Tecumseth (in ordinary)
                > Pathfinder
                > Playfair
                > Fair Jeanne
                > Bee (in workup to sea trials)
                > Black Jack
                >
                >
                > Longboats & Bateaux:
                > Wolfe
                > Black Snake
                > Witch of A'burg
                > Rolette
                > Irvine
                > Royal George
                > Hamilton
                > Bytown Starboard Whaler
                > Bytown Port Whaler
                > Badger (detached service, Upper Lakes)
                >
                >
                > CROWN FORCES NORTH AMERICA {CFNA}
                > is the convenient name given the re-created Military Re-enactment Units of
                > BRITISH ~ CANADIAN ~ MILITIA ~ ALLIED forces located in the United
                > States and Canada. Those Military Re-enactment Units are listed at:
                > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > ADVERTISEMENT
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                --
                > ----
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/1812CrownForces/
                >
                > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > 1812CrownForces-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                Service.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
                of
                > square miles...
                >
                > Unit Contact information for North America:
                > ---------------------------------
                > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                >
                > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                >
                > ADVERTISEMENT
                >
                >
                <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129bgu1ob/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=gr
                >
                oups/S=1705020536:HM/EXP=1091591226/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://comp
                > anion.yahoo.com> click here
                >
                >
                <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
                > :HM/A=2128215/rand=465075796>
                >
                >
                > _____
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
                >
                >
                > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                >
                >
                > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                square miles...
                >
                > Unit Contact information for North America:
                > ---------------------------------
                > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                >
                > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >



                The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                Unit Contact information for North America:
                ---------------------------------
                Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                American Forces Unit Lisiting
                http://usforces1812.tripod.com


                Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                ADVERTISEMENT





                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                Yahoo! Groups Links

                a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • suthren@magma.ca
                That suggests that the Naval Establishment should either (a) downrank all leadership ranks to provide only the number of Sea Officers, Warrant Officers and
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
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                  That suggests that the Naval Establishment should either (a) downrank all
                  leadership ranks to provide only the number of Sea Officers, Warrant
                  Officers and Petty Officers to suit the actual number of naval people
                  entered on the CFNA books as per a representative ship's company of
                  1792-1815, or (b) recruit up participants to provide sufficient numbers to
                  justify the ranks now in place. In the recent June 12 School of the Sailor
                  we had 40 participants and a large waiting list, which suggests naval
                  reenactment may be a growth industry.

                  In partial address of just those concerns LCPL Seufert raised, all
                  participants at the June 12 School of the Sailor were required to
                  participate in the dress of ordinary seamen, and as School Organizer I
                  dressed as they did, and allowed myself only a Boatswain's Pipe as a badge
                  of office, no more. One man, Peter Rindlisbacher, brought an undress
                  Lieutenant's uniform at my request to allow a officer to be present during
                  the run ashore, and then only. He dressed as per the fo'c'sle otherwise.

                  At Toronto in 2000, when we had four sail training vessels (Royaliste, True
                  North, Tecumseth, Empire Sandy), a despatch schooner, and 10 longboats,
                  manned by a total of 114 seamen, tasked to land just under 100 infantry, we
                  had five officers present in total, all in varieties of undress Lieutenant's
                  uniform. I wore a Sub-lieutenant's coat (regs of 1812) incorrectly added to
                  with epaulettes to allow some rank identification as I performed the role of
                  Naval Commander. This pattern of 'dressing down' in actual events will
                  continue and should help to allay concerns such as those expressed by LCPL
                  Seufert.

                  On paper I have promulgated rank requirements for naval rank in the CFNA
                  which is based on seaborne technical knowledge, not how many people turn out
                  on parade. This document should reach you soon. Land reenactors might find
                  adoption of training standards for ranks, at least in the non-commissioned
                  ranks and with, of course, artillery and Sappers, equally useful. Should a
                  man be promoted Corporal or Sergeant unless he can demonstrate an
                  established level of physical fitness and has carried out at least one
                  demonstration of leadership of a body of infantry or marines on a 20-mile
                  forced march within a given period of time carrying the time-honoured
                  66-pound pack, and then successfully fired a minimum amount of live ball at
                  a mark, run at straw figures with the bayonet, and set up an encampment, all
                  before resting, thereafter? It's a thought.

                  I think the naval officers will keep all their gilt and glitter for the
                  wardroom or (ashore) the Mess Tent. The guys all own the stuff and it'd be a
                  shame to keep it in trunks. At sea they'll look very underdressed. But each
                  one will have rank because he/she actually can 'walk the talk' at sea, and I
                  admit to having arbitrarily set those rank levels. If the CFNA wishes to
                  pursue a policy of allowing ranks only on the historical basis of numbers of
                  people present rather than skill level, the Naval Establishment will, of
                  course, comply. My Sub-lieutenant's coat still fits, although it's a bit
                  threadbare looking these days.....

                  Yours aye
                  Victor Suthren
                  Squadron Commodore pro tem
                  Naval Establishment
                  CFNA
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Ed Seufert" <LCpl_RM@...>
                  To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 10:54 PM
                  Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment


                  > It is the tendency of re-enactment units through all periods to have
                  officers and NCOs in numbers severly dis-proportionate for the size of the
                  unit. A parading unit of 5-6 members containing an officer and 2-3 NCOs is
                  simply historically incorrect. Such a unit would have been amalgamated with
                  other like units and the excess officers sent back to their home depots. On
                  the other hand, a set venue/display of a medical or HQ or like organization
                  can get away with 2-3 officers and a like number of lower ranks.
                  >
                  > Three companies of infantry could realistically parade a Major, 3
                  Captains, 3 Lieutenants, 3 Ensigns, an RSM, 18 NCOs and 60 or more ORs.
                  >
                  > I just question the need to have the equivalent of a General and 5
                  Colonels when the field element usually turns out a half dozen officers of
                  much lower rank. A ship can be commanded by Warrant Officers as well as
                  Commisioned Officers.
                  >
                  > I'm not sure of the meaning of the statement that we can't have fun being
                  commanded by a Corporal or Petty Officer? I've always enjoyed myself at
                  events!
                  >
                  > Cheers,
                  >
                  > Ed Seufert, LCPL
                  > 1812 Royal Marines
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: suthren@...
                  > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:49 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
                  >
                  >
                  > May I observe that many distinguished gentlemen parade as officers of
                  rank
                  > in an organization which rarely fields what would constitute two or
                  three
                  > battalion companies of actual 1812 infantry; I think we have opted to
                  > recognize skill level, not size of the command (be it a regiment with
                  > battalion, light and grenadier companies at full established strength as
                  per
                  > 1812, or a 12-pounder frigate, neither of which we will ever turn out).
                  >
                  > We could always merely turn out with senior people at the appropriate
                  ranks
                  > for numbers on command; I suggest we'd rarely have morte than a Corporal
                  on
                  > land or a Petty Officer afloat---and have less fun.
                  > Yours aye
                  > Vic Suthren
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Peter Catley" <peter.catley@...>
                  > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 2:44 AM
                  > Subject: RE: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
                  >
                  >
                  > > Can you have frigates on water that isn't a proper sea? :-) QED?
                  > >
                  > > P**
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: Ed Seufert [mailto:LCpl_RM@...]
                  > > Sent: 03 August 2004 04:50
                  > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > List,
                  > >
                  > > After reviewing the below list, I have to ask a question. Since a
                  > > Post-Captain is usually in command of nothing less than a rated ship
                  > (1st -
                  > > 6th), do we have that many Frigates to SOLs on the Great Lakes? I've
                  > never
                  > > seen any of them at events. ;-)
                  > >
                  > > Curious,
                  > >
                  > > Ed Seufert, LCpl
                  > > 1812 Royal Marines
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > Subject: CFNA Naval Establishment
                  > >
                  > > Naval Establishment
                  > > Crown Forces North America (1812)
                  > >
                  > > Subject to revision
                  > >
                  > > Admiral Commanding, the North American Station:
                  > > VADM Richard Price
                  > >
                  > > Post Captains:
                  > > Capt. Gill Bibby, Head of the Lake
                  > > Capt. Christopher Bagley, detached service, Upper Lakes
                  > > Capt. Victor Suthren, Squadron Commodore pro tem
                  > > Capt. Scott Shank, Flag Captain
                  > > Capt. James Lowrie, Upper Lakes
                  > >
                  > > Commanders:
                  > > Cdr. Peter Rindlisbacher, Amherstburg
                  > >
                  > > Lieutenants:
                  > > Lt. John Leclair, detached service, Upper Lakes
                  > > Lt. Mark Pergunas, Riverine Bateaux Flotilla
                  > > Lt. John Bayfield, Upper Lakes
                  > > Lt. John McCallum, detached service, R. Nfld.R.
                  > >
                  > > Senior Warrant Officers:
                  > > Edward Martin, Master Gunner
                  > > Mary Baruth, Master Gunner
                  > > Armand Lapointe, Senior Boatswain
                  > > David May, Quartermaster
                  > > Colin Wu, Boatswain
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Ships and Vessels:
                  > > St. Lawrence II, flag
                  > > Tecumseth (in ordinary)
                  > > Pathfinder
                  > > Playfair
                  > > Fair Jeanne
                  > > Bee (in workup to sea trials)
                  > > Black Jack
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Longboats & Bateaux:
                  > > Wolfe
                  > > Black Snake
                  > > Witch of A'burg
                  > > Rolette
                  > > Irvine
                  > > Royal George
                  > > Hamilton
                  > > Bytown Starboard Whaler
                  > > Bytown Port Whaler
                  > > Badger (detached service, Upper Lakes)
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > CROWN FORCES NORTH AMERICA {CFNA}
                  > > is the convenient name given the re-created Military Re-enactment
                  Units of
                  > > BRITISH ~ CANADIAN ~ MILITIA ~ ALLIED forces located in the United
                  > > States and Canada. Those Military Re-enactment Units are listed at:
                  > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                  > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > > ADVERTISEMENT
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >


                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > --
                  > > ----
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/1812CrownForces/
                  > >
                  > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > > 1812CrownForces-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > >
                  > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                  > Service.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
                  of
                  > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                  THOUSANDS
                  > of
                  > > square miles...
                  > >
                  > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                  > > ---------------------------------
                  > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                  > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                  > >
                  > > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                  > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > >
                  > > ADVERTISEMENT
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129bgu1ob/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=gr
                  > >
                  >
                  oups/S=1705020536:HM/EXP=1091591226/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://comp
                  > > anion.yahoo.com> click here
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
                  > > :HM/A=2128215/rand=465075796>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > _____
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > > <mailto:WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                  > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
                  of
                  > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                  THOUSANDS of
                  > square miles...
                  > >
                  > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                  > > ---------------------------------
                  > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                  > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                  > >
                  > > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                  > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
                  of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
                  of square miles...
                  >
                  > Unit Contact information for North America:
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                  > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                  >
                  > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                  > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > ADVERTISEMENT
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  ----
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
                  >
                  > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                  Service.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                  square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                  square miles...
                  >
                  > Unit Contact information for North America:
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                  > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                  >
                  > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                  > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                  In a message dated 04/08/2004 22:06:26 Central Standard Time, LCpl_RM@comcast.net writes: It is the tendency of re-enactment units through all periods to have
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
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                    In a message dated 04/08/2004 22:06:26 Central Standard Time,
                    LCpl_RM@... writes:

                    It is the tendency of re-enactment units through all periods to have
                    officers and NCOs in numbers severly dis-proportionate for the size of the unit. A
                    parading unit of 5-6 members containing an officer and 2-3 NCOs is simply
                    historically incorrect. Such a unit would have been amalgamated with other
                    like units and the excess officers sent back to their home depots. On the other
                    hand, a set venue/display of a medical or HQ or like organization can get
                    away with 2-3 officers and a like number of lower ranks.

                    Three companies of infantry could realistically parade a Major, 3 Captains,
                    3 Lieutenants, 3 Ensigns, an RSM, 18 NCOs and 60 or more ORs.

                    I just question the need to have the equivalent of a General and 5 Colonels
                    when the field element usually turns out a half dozen officers of much lower
                    rank. A ship can be commanded by Warrant Officers as well as Commisioned
                    Officers.



                    Well Ed.

                    That's fine but how many people are willing tosubmerge their own identity at
                    every event to become a battalion of detatchments in which the unit (and
                    brigade) will do none of the fun battalion drills but stick to the drill
                    movements that, at most, an undersized company would perform on the field?
                    Of course you are quite aware that in our period NCOs did NOT give orders,
                    only officers can do that and as I recall a warrant officer on land is a bit
                    different to those on the seas though I would be interested in knowing the
                    circumstances under which a Warrent officer could command a ship and thus be due
                    the courtesy title of Captain!

                    The staff ranks are not based on the numbers of men present but onthe jobs
                    people do and to give the impression of an army rather than a company. Indeed
                    it is true that for some staff officers much of their work takes place before
                    the event so when arriving on site everything is prepared for the event, and
                    on the field all the safety angles are covered.

                    In the end though it is obvious that most re-enactors dont want the single
                    company, if they did they wouldn't come along and form new units they would
                    simply join the first one formed so we we could all dress, drill and arm alike,
                    don't you think? :-)

                    Cheers

                    Tim


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • PEGGY MATHEWS
                    (snip) Tim replies to Ed: In the end though it is obvious that most re-enactors don t want the single company, if they did they wouldn t come along and form
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
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                      (snip)
                      Tim replies to Ed:

                      In the end though it is obvious that most re-enactors don't want the single
                      company, if they did they wouldn't come along and form new units they would
                      simply join the first one formed so we we could all dress, drill and arm alike,
                      don't you think? :-)
                      (snip)

                      Me: I would suggest another possibility for some reenactors and their units. At Waterloo in '95 after forming line of battle we looked across the field to what seemed like about 70 units, all with a flag, an officer and average of 10 rankers. The fellow next to me, Mark as I recall, asked me "why don't they just form one full strength battalion instead of 70 little units?". I replied, "because this way 70 guys can say, 'I'm in charge here'."

                      I especially see it in F&I or SYW reenacting (the latter just getting started) in the midwest. That's one reason I'm such an advocate of the command structure being used in 1812. You get consistency in upper leadership, know what to expect, and officers get rotated into parade functions, etc. where they gain valuable experience with larger commands. Makes the hobby stronger in the long run IMHO.

                      Just a couple of observations, not criticisms.

                      Michael Mathews

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Kevin Windsor
                      Pardon my stupidity, but what is SYW Kevin 89th ... From: PEGGY MATHEWS To: Sent: Thursday, August 05,
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
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                        Pardon my stupidity, but what is SYW

                        Kevin
                        89th

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "PEGGY MATHEWS" <ciefranche21e@...>
                        To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 10:35 AM
                        Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment

                        >
                        > I especially see it in F&I or SYW reenacting (the latter just getting
                        started) in the midwest.
                      • Kevin Windsor
                        ... From: To: Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment Land
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: <suthren@...>
                          To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:22 AM
                          Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment

                          Land reenactors might find

                          adoption of training standards for ranks, at least in the non-commissioned
                          > ranks and with, of course, artillery and Sappers, equally useful. Should a
                          > man be promoted Corporal or Sergeant unless he can demonstrate an
                          > established level of physical fitness and has carried out at least one
                          > demonstration of leadership of a body of infantry or marines on a 20-mile
                          > forced march within a given period of time carrying the time-honoured
                          > 66-pound pack, and then successfully fired a minimum amount of live ball
                          at
                          > a mark, run at straw figures with the bayonet, and set up an encampment,
                          all
                          > before resting, thereafter? It's a thought.
                          >
                          > I think the naval officers will keep all their gilt and glitter for the
                          > wardroom or (ashore) the Mess Tent. The guys all own the stuff and it'd be
                          a
                          > shame to keep it in trunks. At sea they'll look very underdressed. But
                          each
                          > one will have rank because he/she actually can 'walk the talk' at sea, and
                          I
                          > admit to having arbitrarily set those rank levels. If the CFNA wishes to
                          > pursue a policy of allowing ranks only on the historical basis of numbers
                          of
                          > people present rather than skill level, the Naval Establishment will, of
                          > course, comply. My Sub-lieutenant's coat still fits, although it's a bit
                          > threadbare looking these days.....
                          >
                          > Yours aye
                          > Victor Suthren
                          > Squadron Commodore pro tem
                          > Naval Establishment
                          > CFNA
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "Ed Seufert" <LCpl_RM@...>
                          > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 10:54 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
                          >
                          >
                          > > It is the tendency of re-enactment units through all periods to have
                          > officers and NCOs in numbers severly dis-proportionate for the size of the
                          > unit. A parading unit of 5-6 members containing an officer and 2-3 NCOs
                          is
                          > simply historically incorrect. Such a unit would have been amalgamated
                          with
                          > other like units and the excess officers sent back to their home depots.
                          On
                          > the other hand, a set venue/display of a medical or HQ or like
                          organization
                          > can get away with 2-3 officers and a like number of lower ranks.
                          > >
                          > > Three companies of infantry could realistically parade a Major, 3
                          > Captains, 3 Lieutenants, 3 Ensigns, an RSM, 18 NCOs and 60 or more ORs.
                          > >
                          > > I just question the need to have the equivalent of a General and 5
                          > Colonels when the field element usually turns out a half dozen officers of
                          > much lower rank. A ship can be commanded by Warrant Officers as well as
                          > Commisioned Officers.
                          > >
                          > > I'm not sure of the meaning of the statement that we can't have fun
                          being
                          > commanded by a Corporal or Petty Officer? I've always enjoyed myself at
                          > events!
                          > >
                          > > Cheers,
                          > >
                          > > Ed Seufert, LCPL
                          > > 1812 Royal Marines
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: suthren@...
                          > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 1:49 PM
                          > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > May I observe that many distinguished gentlemen parade as officers of
                          > rank
                          > > in an organization which rarely fields what would constitute two or
                          > three
                          > > battalion companies of actual 1812 infantry; I think we have opted to
                          > > recognize skill level, not size of the command (be it a regiment with
                          > > battalion, light and grenadier companies at full established strength
                          as
                          > per
                          > > 1812, or a 12-pounder frigate, neither of which we will ever turn
                          out).
                          > >
                          > > We could always merely turn out with senior people at the appropriate
                          > ranks
                          > > for numbers on command; I suggest we'd rarely have morte than a
                          Corporal
                          > on
                          > > land or a Petty Officer afloat---and have less fun.
                          > > Yours aye
                          > > Vic Suthren
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: "Peter Catley" <peter.catley@...>
                          > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 2:44 AM
                          > > Subject: RE: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > > Can you have frigates on water that isn't a proper sea? :-) QED?
                          > > >
                          > > > P**
                          > > >
                          > > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > > From: Ed Seufert [mailto:LCpl_RM@...]
                          > > > Sent: 03 August 2004 04:50
                          > > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Subject: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > List,
                          > > >
                          > > > After reviewing the below list, I have to ask a question. Since a
                          > > > Post-Captain is usually in command of nothing less than a rated ship
                          > > (1st -
                          > > > 6th), do we have that many Frigates to SOLs on the Great Lakes?
                          I've
                          > > never
                          > > > seen any of them at events. ;-)
                          > > >
                          > > > Curious,
                          > > >
                          > > > Ed Seufert, LCpl
                          > > > 1812 Royal Marines
                          > > >
                          > > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > > Subject: CFNA Naval Establishment
                          > > >
                          > > > Naval Establishment
                          > > > Crown Forces North America (1812)
                          > > >
                          > > > Subject to revision
                          > > >
                          > > > Admiral Commanding, the North American Station:
                          > > > VADM Richard Price
                          > > >
                          > > > Post Captains:
                          > > > Capt. Gill Bibby, Head of the Lake
                          > > > Capt. Christopher Bagley, detached service, Upper Lakes
                          > > > Capt. Victor Suthren, Squadron Commodore pro tem
                          > > > Capt. Scott Shank, Flag Captain
                          > > > Capt. James Lowrie, Upper Lakes
                          > > >
                          > > > Commanders:
                          > > > Cdr. Peter Rindlisbacher, Amherstburg
                          > > >
                          > > > Lieutenants:
                          > > > Lt. John Leclair, detached service, Upper Lakes
                          > > > Lt. Mark Pergunas, Riverine Bateaux Flotilla
                          > > > Lt. John Bayfield, Upper Lakes
                          > > > Lt. John McCallum, detached service, R. Nfld.R.
                          > > >
                          > > > Senior Warrant Officers:
                          > > > Edward Martin, Master Gunner
                          > > > Mary Baruth, Master Gunner
                          > > > Armand Lapointe, Senior Boatswain
                          > > > David May, Quartermaster
                          > > > Colin Wu, Boatswain
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Ships and Vessels:
                          > > > St. Lawrence II, flag
                          > > > Tecumseth (in ordinary)
                          > > > Pathfinder
                          > > > Playfair
                          > > > Fair Jeanne
                          > > > Bee (in workup to sea trials)
                          > > > Black Jack
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Longboats & Bateaux:
                          > > > Wolfe
                          > > > Black Snake
                          > > > Witch of A'burg
                          > > > Rolette
                          > > > Irvine
                          > > > Royal George
                          > > > Hamilton
                          > > > Bytown Starboard Whaler
                          > > > Bytown Port Whaler
                          > > > Badger (detached service, Upper Lakes)
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > CROWN FORCES NORTH AMERICA {CFNA}
                          > > > is the convenient name given the re-created Military Re-enactment
                          > Units of
                          > > > BRITISH ~ CANADIAN ~ MILITIA ~ ALLIED forces located in the United
                          > > > States and Canada. Those Military Re-enactment Units are listed at:
                          > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                          > > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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                          > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                          hundreds
                          > of
                          > > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                          > THOUSANDS
                          > > of
                          > > > square miles...
                          > > >
                          > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                          > > > ---------------------------------
                          > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                          > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                          > > >
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                          > > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                          hundreds
                          > of
                          > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                          > THOUSANDS of
                          > > square miles...
                          > > >
                          > > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                          > > > ---------------------------------
                          > > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                          > > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                          > > >
                          > > > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                          > > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
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                          > of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                          THOUSANDS
                          > of square miles...
                          > >
                          > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                          > > ---------------------------------
                          > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                          > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
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                          > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
                          of
                          > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
                          of
                          > square miles...
                          > >
                          > > Unit Contact information for North America:
                          > > ---------------------------------
                          > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                          > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                          > >
                          > > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                          > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
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                          >
                          > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                          square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                          square miles...
                          >
                          > Unit Contact information for North America:
                          > ---------------------------------
                          > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                          > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                          >
                          > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                          > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                        • ray.hobbs@sympatico.ca
                          Tis ignorance , not stupidity , Kevin. Yeah, what is SYW? Ray Hobbs 41st Regt ... Pardon my stupidity, but what is SYW Kevin 89th ... From: PEGGY MATHEWS
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
                          • 0 Attachment
                            'Tis "ignorance", not "stupidity", Kevin.
                            Yeah, what is SYW?
                            Ray Hobbs
                            41st Regt

                            > From: "Kevin Windsor" <kevin.windsor@...>
                            > Date: 2004/08/05 Thu PM 05:51:30 EST
                            > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment
                            >
                            Pardon my stupidity, but what is SYW

                            Kevin
                            89th

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "PEGGY MATHEWS" <ciefranche21e@...>
                            To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 10:35 AM
                            Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment

                            >
                            > I especially see it in F&I or SYW reenacting (the latter just getting
                            started) in the midwest.


                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • PEGGY MATHEWS
                            No stupid questions Kev, just too many coded phrases out there in e-mail land. The affairs in Europe concurrent with the French and Indian Wars, aka. the Seven
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
                            • 0 Attachment
                              No stupid questions Kev, just too many coded phrases out there in e-mail land.

                              The affairs in Europe concurrent with the French and Indian Wars, aka. the Seven Years War. Some talk of planning a "big" event that would involve units from Europe coming over to play.

                              So no natives or colonial troops. We'll see if it happens or not.

                              Michael Mathews

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Kevin Windsor<mailto:kevin.windsor@...>
                              To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:51 PM
                              Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment


                              Pardon my stupidity, but what is SYW

                              Kevin
                              89th

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "PEGGY MATHEWS" <ciefranche21e@...<mailto:ciefranche21e@...>>
                              To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>>
                              Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 10:35 AM
                              Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment

                              >
                              > I especially see it in F&I or SYW reenacting (the latter just getting
                              started) in the midwest.



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                              In a message dated 05/08/2004 16:56:35 Central Standard Time, ray.hobbs@sympatico.ca writes: Tis ignorance , not stupidity , Kevin. Yeah, what is SYW?
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
                              • 0 Attachment
                                In a message dated 05/08/2004 16:56:35 Central Standard Time,
                                ray.hobbs@... writes:

                                'Tis "ignorance", not "stupidity", Kevin.
                                Yeah, what is SYW?



                                Seven Years War, the period usualy known as F&I but concentrating on the
                                European theatre (and using the accepted name). Of course the REAL short hand
                                for SYW should be 'WW1'!

                                Cheers

                                Tim


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • PEGGY MATHEWS
                                (snip) Seven Years War, the period usualy known as F&I but concentrating on the European theatre (and using the accepted name). Of course the REAL short hand
                                Message 15 of 16 , Aug 5, 2004
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  (snip)

                                  Seven Years War, the period usualy known as F&I but concentrating on the
                                  European theatre (and using the accepted name). Of course the REAL short hand
                                  for SYW should be 'WW1'!

                                  Cheers

                                  Tim


                                  Indeed, in fact I've often wondered why the name never took hold. I suppose the concept of a global conflict didn't exist in anyone's mind yet.

                                  Michael M.

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Ed Seufert
                                  ... From: BritcomHMP@aol.com To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment The
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Aug 6, 2004
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: BritcomHMP@...
                                    To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 9:17 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Fw: CFNA Naval Establishment

                                    The staff ranks are not based on the numbers of men present but on the jobs
                                    people do and to give the impression of an army rather than a company. Indeed
                                    it is true that for some staff officers much of their work takes place before
                                    the event so when arriving on site everything is prepared for the event, and
                                    on the field all the safety angles are covered.

                                    Tim,

                                    I have the greatest admiration for staff. How else can I go to events and enjoy myself!
                                    Truthfully I do realize the need and do appreciate what they do.

                                    In the end though it is obvious that most re-enactors dont want the single
                                    company, if they did they wouldn't come along and form new units they would
                                    simply join the first one formed so we we could all dress, drill and arm alike,
                                    don't you think? :-)
                                    Geez Tim! That sounds like it would be .....UNIFORM!
                                    In re-enacting; no way! 8^)

                                    Cheers,
                                    Ed

                                    The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                                    Unit Contact information for North America:
                                    ---------------------------------
                                    Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                                    http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                                    American Forces Unit Lisiting
                                    http://usforces1812.tripod.com



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