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Re: [WarOf1812] Britain finances Louisiana Purchase?

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  • suthren@magma.ca
    Dear Michael Thanks for your good note. My understanding was that British financial and banking interests, and British commerce generally, were in fact anxious
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 2, 2004
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      Dear Michael

      Thanks for your good note. My understanding was that British financial and
      banking interests, and British commerce generally, were in fact anxious for
      the United States to grow and do well; it was a potentially vast market, was
      a vital supplier of raw materials and other goods for the booming British
      industrial revolution, and was a cousin nation with which political
      disagreements were seen as transitory and not fundamentally antagonistic.
      Support for the war was weak in Parliament, and the natural alliance and
      common interests of Britain and America were always bubbling up to the
      surface in spite of saber-rattling jingoists. Getting the French out of
      America meant reducing the long-term resources of the true enemy. The Brits
      knew the French would spend America's borrowed purchase price in a month,
      and in the long term knew supporting Jonathan and his new republic was in
      Britain's best interests---as history since then has revealed to be true.

      Yours aye

      Vic

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: PEGGY MATHEWS <ciefranche21e@...>
      To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 9:26 AM
      Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Britain finances Louisiana Purchase?


      > Well yes Vic, our internal southern "hawks" vs. the New England profiteers
      is well known. But that isn't part of British foreign policy. I'm just
      surprised that the government had so little influence over the British
      banking system that they would finance a land deal that was contrary to the
      current agenda. i.e. Aiding Bonaparte, allowing growth in the former
      colonies, and removing vulnerable French possessions.
      >
      > It seems like the navy and army were fond of capturing isolated French (or
      whomever they were currently fighting) colonies for profit, removing
      privateer bases, and morale building.
      >
      > If as Peter says it's just business as usual, it seems somewhat akin to
      say, Donald Trump openly loaning money to Al-Quida for purchase of Stinger
      ground to air missiles.
      >
      > Regards,
      > Michael Mathews
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: suthren@...
      > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 7:31 AM
      > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Britain finances Louisiana Purchase?
      >
      >
      > Dear Michael
      >
      > From what I know of the War of 1812 American business was not
      particularly
      > happy with 'Mr. Madison's War', as some called it. As the war ground on,
      > there was a very real secessionist movement in New England that
      threatened
      > to have the young republic split right down the Champlain/Hudson
      corridor.
      > The New Englanders got along fine with the Canadians to their north and
      were
      > suffering badly as the RN slowly shut down the American seaboard and
      > strangled the economy, which had been doing just fine as the British,
      > grappling with Napoleon, needed to buy American goods. Albert Gallatin
      > warned the President that the nation was approaching bankruptcy, and the
      > British army in Upper and Lower Canada (Quebec and Ontario) and the
      Canadian
      > militia marched very often in American shoes (sold for a fine profit)
      and
      > ate Vermont beef, which was driven across the border in a regular cattle
      > drive by the Vermont farmers. At least one serious skirmish between the
      > Vermonters and US troops sent to stop this trade took place. Support for
      the
      > war seemed to be the highest in the West, where the 'War Hawks' wanted
      the
      > development of the Ohio/Indiana/Michigan lands to be unfettered by
      Indian
      > resistance led by Tecumseh and his brother, The Prophet; and lowest in
      New
      > England (even with British impressment of American seamen being an
      > issue)where a clandestine trade with their Canadian friends went on in
      spite
      > of Washington. The War Hawks got their wish of removing Tecumseh and
      > smashing the warrior resistance when the Kentuckians under Harrison won
      at
      > Moraviantown in Canada in 1813, but that was a rare victory in Canada;
      > Canada was not Mexico of the 1840s, and Congress became tired of hearing
      of
      > yet another army being sent north (under Hull, or Dearborn, or
      Wilkinson, or
      > Hampton) to defeat at the hands of the British and Canadians. The solid
      > American naval victories at Put-in Bay and Plattsburg, the defense of
      New
      > Orleans, and the single-ship successes of the USN's frigates that did
      manage
      > to slide out past the RN blockade, added to British desires of calming
      > things down to give America a sense of some success in the war, even
      though
      > the national defense had essentially collapsed, and the national capital
      > city had been taken. Geography and numbers helped a lot (the Duke of
      > Wellington rightly said, as he looked at the vast sweep of America, that
      it
      > was essentially unconquerable, and aren't we glad he was right). But
      > business hadn't been happy about the war, and did its best to either
      ignore
      > it or go around it.
      >
      > Yours aye
      >
      > Vic Suthren
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Peter Catley <peter.catley@...>
      > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 2:58 AM
      > Subject: RE: [WarOf1812] Britain finances Louisiana Purchase?
      >
      >
      > > During the Napoleonic wars the shoemakers of Northampton (and others)
      > sold
      > > their wares to both sides. In a genuine free enterprise economy the
      > > governments have relatively limited influence on trade and economy.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > The answer to the question is you cannot let politics and war get in
      the
      > way
      > > of profit, look at the whole Continental blockade policy of the
      Emperor
      > > honoured more in the breach than the observance..
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Cheers
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > P**
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: PEGGY MATHEWS [mailto:ciefranche21e@...]
      > > Sent: 02 February 2004 03:12
      > > To: 1812elist
      > > Subject: [WarOf1812] Britain finances Louisiana Purchase?
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > I was watching the videotape of the broadcast of the bicentennial
      ceremony
      > > at New Orleans last December (thanks Joe!) and the comment was made
      that
      > > British bankers loaned the infant United States the 15 million dollars
      to
      > > make purchase since the country didn't have that kind of money. So
      > assuming
      > > this is correct, and some comments by the commentators weren't, was
      > Britain
      > > so very unconcerned by the land deal or couldn't they control the
      banks?
      > >
      > > It would seem to be contrary to national interests to see Republican
      > France
      > > get the money, and the United States gain territory that put them in
      > > immediate conflict with British interests. Since arguably the land
      deal
      > > contributed to the outbreak of the War of 1812 (my tenuous connection
      to
      > the
      > > list), why did it occur?
      > >
      > > Inquiring minds want to know.
      > >
      > > Thanks,
      > > Michael Mathews
      > >
      > >
      > > Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality. The Dali Lama
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
      of
      > > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
      THOUSANDS
      > of
      > > square miles...
      > >
      > > Unit Contact information for North America:
      > > ---------------------------------
      > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
      > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
      > >
      > > American Forces Unit Lisiting
      > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > _____
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
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      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
      of
      > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
      THOUSANDS of
      > square miles...
      > >
      > > Unit Contact information for North America:
      > > ---------------------------------
      > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
      > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
      > >
      > > American Forces Unit Lisiting
      > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
      > >
      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
      > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
      of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
      of square miles...
      >
      > Unit Contact information for North America:
      > ---------------------------------
      > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
      > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
      >
      > American Forces Unit Lisiting
      > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
      square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
      square miles...
      >
      > Unit Contact information for North America:
      > ---------------------------------
      > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
      > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
      >
      > American Forces Unit Lisiting
      > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
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