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Re: [WarOf1812] M & C

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  • suthren@magma.ca
    Another log on the fire about M&C s accuracy. A British historical colleague surprisingly observed to me that in his opinion M&C displays, from his point of
    Message 1 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
      Another log on the fire about M&C's accuracy. A British historical colleague
      surprisingly observed to me that in his opinion M&C displays, from his point
      of view, not a British warship's society but a unrestrained, Aussie
      jolly-cobbers-together atmosphere, and Diggers trying to portray Brits but
      failing; that Patrick O'Brian's writing is very nice, but all Celtic
      convolutions (even though "O'Brian" was of Anglo-German background) and
      romantic, self-conscious preciousness; but that if one wants to sense what
      it was like in an accurately ENGLISH warship---including the sense of iron
      self-discipline, restraint and reserve---one still can't beat Forester and
      the Hornblower books. That same sense of deep restraint---a quality very
      difficult for us colonials to portray accurately and with proper balance,
      I'd agree---so idiosyncratic of the British during and since the Georgian
      era was in, for example, 'Pride and Prejudice', with Colin Firth and
      Jennifer Ehle. Too bad M&C hadn't been made by those producers or by
      Marchant & Ivory. Perhaps the best people to make films about Brits are
      Brits....

      What say you, mates?

      Yours aye
      Vic Suthren

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <BritcomHMP@...>
      To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 11:55 AM
      Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C


      >
      > In a message dated 2/1/04 6:52:57 AM, suthren@... writes:
      >
      >
      > > that adds to the "so near, and yet so
      > > far..." feeling I and others have about the film.
      > >
      >
      > Another thing I thought I heard (and I might be mistaken) during his anti
      > Napoleon 'pep talk' did he say "do you want to see a guillotine set up in
      > Trafalgar Square"?
      >
      > I know I did a serious mental double take but I later thought 'naaaa, he
      > couldn't have said that'!
      >
      > Cheers
      >
      > Tim
      >
      >
      > Timothy Pickles
      > 1100 Rue Chartres
      > New Orleans
      > Louisiana 70116
      > Tel & Fax: 504 522 4822
      > Mobile: 504 236 7130
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
      square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
      square miles...
      >
      > Unit Contact information for North America:
      > ---------------------------------
      > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
      > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
      >
      > American Forces Unit Lisiting
      > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • ray.hobbs@sympatico.ca
      Oops! While we are on the subject of accuracy, and the comment about Brits making the best films about Brits: Russell Crowe - born New Zealand (although he has
      Message 2 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
        Oops!
        While we are on the subject of accuracy, and the comment about Brits making the best films about Brits:
        Russell Crowe - born New Zealand (although he has lived much of his life in Oz)
        James Ivory - born Berkeley, California, Graduate of UCLA
        Ismail Merchant - born Bombay India, Graduate of New York U.
        This, of course, says nothing about the comments on M&C. I am not an expert, so will keep silent on the
        movie, 'cept to say I enjoyed it.
        Yrs etc.
        Ray Hobbs
        41st Regt.



        > From: <suthren@...>
        > Date: 2004/02/01 Sun PM 01:19:30 EST
        > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
        > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Peter Catley
        Hear him, Hear him. But then I could be described as bias :-) but in principal he it is correct, have you ever seen the Brits portraying Aussies or Americans,
        Message 3 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
          Hear him, Hear him.



          But then I could be described as bias :-) but in principal he it is correct,
          have you ever seen the Brits portraying Aussies or Americans, it doesn't
          really work.



          Cheers



          P**



          -----Original Message-----
          From: suthren@... [mailto:suthren@...]
          Sent: 01 February 2004 18:20
          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C



          Another log on the fire about M&C's accuracy. A British historical colleague
          surprisingly observed to me that in his opinion M&C displays, from his point
          of view, not a British warship's society but a unrestrained, Aussie
          jolly-cobbers-together atmosphere, and Diggers trying to portray Brits but
          failing; that Patrick O'Brian's writing is very nice, but all Celtic
          convolutions (even though "O'Brian" was of Anglo-German background) and
          romantic, self-conscious preciousness; but that if one wants to sense what
          it was like in an accurately ENGLISH warship---including the sense of iron
          self-discipline, restraint and reserve---one still can't beat Forester and
          the Hornblower books. That same sense of deep restraint---a quality very
          difficult for us colonials to portray accurately and with proper balance,
          I'd agree---so idiosyncratic of the British during and since the Georgian
          era was in, for example, 'Pride and Prejudice', with Colin Firth and
          Jennifer Ehle. Too bad M&C hadn't been made by those producers or by
          Marchant & Ivory. Perhaps the best people to make films about Brits are
          Brits....

          What say you, mates?

          Yours aye
          Vic Suthren

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <BritcomHMP@...>
          To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 11:55 AM
          Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C


          >
          > In a message dated 2/1/04 6:52:57 AM, suthren@... writes:
          >
          >
          > > that adds to the "so near, and yet so
          > > far..." feeling I and others have about the film.
          > >
          >
          > Another thing I thought I heard (and I might be mistaken) during his anti
          > Napoleon 'pep talk' did he say "do you want to see a guillotine set up in
          > Trafalgar Square"?
          >
          > I know I did a serious mental double take but I later thought 'naaaa, he
          > couldn't have said that'!
          >
          > Cheers
          >
          > Tim
          >
          >
          > Timothy Pickles
          > 1100 Rue Chartres
          > New Orleans
          > Louisiana 70116
          > Tel & Fax: 504 522 4822
          > Mobile: 504 236 7130
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
          square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
          square miles...
          >
          > Unit Contact information for North America:
          > ---------------------------------
          > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          >
          > American Forces Unit Lisiting
          > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >



          The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
          square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
          square miles...

          Unit Contact information for North America:
          ---------------------------------
          Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

          American Forces Unit Lisiting
          http://usforces1812.tripod.com






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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • suthren@magma.ca
          Point well made. Thanks, Ray. Vic Suthren ... From: To: Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 2:03 PM Subject:
          Message 4 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
            Point well made. Thanks, Ray.

            Vic Suthren

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <ray.hobbs@...>
            To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 2:03 PM
            Subject: Re: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C


            > Oops!
            > While we are on the subject of accuracy, and the comment about Brits
            making the best films about Brits:
            > Russell Crowe - born New Zealand (although he has lived much of his life
            in Oz)
            > James Ivory - born Berkeley, California, Graduate of UCLA
            > Ismail Merchant - born Bombay India, Graduate of New York U.
            > This, of course, says nothing about the comments on M&C. I am not an
            expert, so will keep silent on the
            > movie, 'cept to say I enjoyed it.
            > Yrs etc.
            > Ray Hobbs
            > 41st Regt.
            >
            >
            >
            > > From: <suthren@...>
            > > Date: 2004/02/01 Sun PM 01:19:30 EST
            > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
            square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
            square miles...
            >
            > Unit Contact information for North America:
            > ---------------------------------
            > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            >
            > American Forces Unit Lisiting
            > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • ray.hobbs@sympatico.ca
            Vic: I have just seen again (for the umpteenth time) The Duellists - directed by a Brit, starring two American actors, about two French light cavalrymen. A
            Message 5 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
              Vic:
              I have just seen again (for the umpteenth time) "The Duellists' - directed by a Brit, starring two American
              actors, about two French light cavalrymen. A superb movie - and the military advisor is a good friend of
              mine (and he know where the mistakes are!) A marvellous piece of international cooperation.

              It is a shame that there are not good movies of Forrester and co. I, like many, was raised on the novels.

              With sincere greetings
              Ray


              > From: <suthren@...>
              > Date: 2004/02/01 Sun PM 03:27:32 EST
              > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
              > Subject: Re: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • dancingbobd@webtv.net
              Greetings from the icy Heart of America, Let s look at the positives. Russel Crowe got nominated for the leading male actor, which will get the movie back
              Message 6 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
                Greetings from the icy Heart of America,

                Let's look at the positives. Russel Crowe got nominated for the leading
                male actor, which will get the movie back into theaters. People will
                see characters dressed quite like us. Maybe a good opportunity for
                recruitment. I, like Ray, saw and enjoyed the movie. I portray a
                surgeon, and didn't go on about self surgery. Enjoy the good! Don't
                obsess over what is less than historically correct. It's just a movie.
                ;^)

                So far the great snow storm is still 100 miles west of KC and we
                continue to have freezing rain/drizzle and sleet.

                Warm regards,

                Bob Dorian
                Surgeon 14LD, US Engineer & Tanguero
              • Smaller, Brian C
                Ray In The Duellists , Keith Carradine played de Hubert (I think that was his name) and a youngish Harvey Keitel the other cavalryman. It also had Albert
                Message 7 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
                  Ray

                  In 'The Duellists', Keith Carradine played de Hubert (I think that was his
                  name) and a youngish Harvey Keitel the other cavalryman. It also had Albert
                  Finney, Edward Fox and Tom Conti. THere were a lot of other well known
                  English actors as well, but my mind has gone blank. Pete Postlewaite was
                  one I think. I remember watching it once and having a book on Napoelonic
                  Hussar uniforms open and the uniforms were surprisingly good! Your mate did
                  a good job.

                  I actually felt cold in the Retreat from Moscow segment!

                  Brian



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: ray.hobbs@... [mailto:ray.hobbs@...]
                  I have just seen again (for the umpteenth time) "The Duellists' - directed
                  by a Brit, starring two American
                  actors, about two French light cavalrymen.



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • suthren@magma.ca
                  Good point, Bob. Vic ... From: To: Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 5:45 PM Subject: Re: Re: [WarOf1812] M &
                  Message 8 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
                    Good point, Bob.
                    Vic

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: <dancingbobd@...>
                    To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 5:45 PM
                    Subject: Re: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C


                    > Greetings from the icy Heart of America,
                    >
                    > Let's look at the positives. Russel Crowe got nominated for the leading
                    > male actor, which will get the movie back into theaters. People will
                    > see characters dressed quite like us. Maybe a good opportunity for
                    > recruitment. I, like Ray, saw and enjoyed the movie. I portray a
                    > surgeon, and didn't go on about self surgery. Enjoy the good! Don't
                    > obsess over what is less than historically correct. It's just a movie.
                    > ;^)
                    >
                    > So far the great snow storm is still 100 miles west of KC and we
                    > continue to have freezing rain/drizzle and sleet.
                    >
                    > Warm regards,
                    >
                    > Bob Dorian
                    > Surgeon 14LD, US Engineer & Tanguero
                    >
                    >
                    > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                    square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                    square miles...
                    >
                    > Unit Contact information for North America:
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                    > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                    >
                    > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                    > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                  • ray.hobbs@sympatico.ca
                    Brian; In the interview with Ridley Scott (it was his first feature movie), he mentions that the whole thing was done for $900,000, and with a cast of 20-30
                    Message 9 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
                      Brian;
                      In the interview with Ridley Scott (it was his first feature movie), he mentions that the whole thing was
                      done for $900,000, and with a cast of 20-30 extras.
                      Richard, the military advisor, told me that there was one mistake with the wearing of red trousers for the
                      7th Hussars, rather than the green which would have gone with the jacket worn. the reason was that
                      the green trousers had been used the day before in a rainstorm, and were still wet!!!!
                      Just shows, though what can be done with a director intent on making an historically accurate movie.
                      Others in this style are "Vatel", and "Ridicule" - earlier period, but excellent.
                      Ray

                      > From: "Smaller, Brian C" <brian.smaller@...>
                      > Date: 2004/02/01 Sun PM 06:33:39 EST
                      > To: "'WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com'" <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Subject: RE: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                      ... Well, as I recall, the general was a General of Division (two lines of gold embroidery & 2 stars on the eps) but has a general of Brigades sash (shot
                      Message 10 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
                        In a message dated 2/1/04 6:31:48 PM, ray.hobbs@... writes:


                        > Richard, the military advisor, told me that there was one mistake with the
                        > wearing of red trousers for the
                        > 7th Hussars, rather than the green which would have gone with the jacket
                        > worn. the reason was that
                        > the green trousers had been used the day before in a rainstorm, and were
                        > still wet!!!!
                        >

                        Well, as I recall, the general was a 'General of Division' (two lines of gold
                        embroidery & 2 stars on the eps) but has a general of Brigades sash (shot
                        through with blue not red). But it was a magnificent film ans one where the
                        technical advisor and costume designer knew their jobs and were allowed to do them.
                        If only they were all so good!

                        Cheers

                        Tim



                        Timothy Pickles
                        1100 Rue Chartres
                        New Orleans
                        Louisiana 70116
                        Tel & Fax: 504 522 4822
                        Mobile: 504 236 7130



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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