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Re: [WarOf1812] M & C

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  • suthren@magma.ca
    Tim raises a perceptive point that Peter Weir, as scriptwriter, and his historical advisor should have known; that adds to the so near, and yet so far...
    Message 1 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
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      Tim raises a perceptive point that Peter Weir, as scriptwriter, and his
      historical advisor should have known; that adds to the "so near, and yet so
      far..." feeling I and others have about the film. In 1997 I was crewing in a
      brigantine that put into English Harbour, Antigua, and tied up alongside HMS
      ROSE to ships' iron guns projecting upright as bollards, and near the Copper
      & Lumber Yard which was now a superb small restaurant. A diver told me that
      the great chain which lay along the bottom of the harbour, and which the
      ships used to use to warp themselves out to sea, is still there, as so much
      is. One could see SURPRISE setting her topsails out of there, all right....

      Yours aye
      Vic Suthren

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <BritcomHMP@...>
      To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 1:01 AM
      Subject: [WarOf1812] M & C


      > Well, long after everyone else, I finaly saw the movie in full. There were
      > all those points that people have brought up in the past and lots more,
      but
      > something got me. Where did the idea come from that a ship off the coast
      of Brazil
      > might have to return to Porstsmouth come from?
      > The North American Station was based on Antigua where a complete dockyard
      was
      > (and is) to be found.
      >
      > Just a thought,
      >
      > Cheers,
      >
      > Tim
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
      square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
      square miles...
      >
      > Unit Contact information for North America:
      > ---------------------------------
      > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
      > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
      >
      > American Forces Unit Lisiting
      > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • BritcomHMP@aol.com
      ... Another thing I thought I heard (and I might be mistaken) during his anti Napoleon pep talk did he say do you want to see a guillotine set up in
      Message 2 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
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        In a message dated 2/1/04 6:52:57 AM, suthren@... writes:


        > that adds to the "so near, and yet so
        > far..." feeling I and others have about the film.
        >

        Another thing I thought I heard (and I might be mistaken) during his anti
        Napoleon 'pep talk' did he say "do you want to see a guillotine set up in
        Trafalgar Square"?

        I know I did a serious mental double take but I later thought 'naaaa, he
        couldn't have said that'!

        Cheers

        Tim


        Timothy Pickles
        1100 Rue Chartres
        New Orleans
        Louisiana 70116
        Tel & Fax: 504 522 4822
        Mobile: 504 236 7130



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • abateman
        ... From: ... I m sure he said Picadilly . That existed in 1805, didn t it? Andrew Bateman, 41st Foot
        Message 3 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <BritcomHMP@...>
          >
          > Another thing I thought I heard (and I might be mistaken) during his anti
          > Napoleon 'pep talk' did he say "do you want to see a guillotine set up in
          > Trafalgar Square"?

          I'm sure he said "Picadilly". That existed in 1805, didn't it?

          Andrew Bateman, 41st Foot
        • suthren@magma.ca
          Another log on the fire about M&C s accuracy. A British historical colleague surprisingly observed to me that in his opinion M&C displays, from his point of
          Message 4 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
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            Another log on the fire about M&C's accuracy. A British historical colleague
            surprisingly observed to me that in his opinion M&C displays, from his point
            of view, not a British warship's society but a unrestrained, Aussie
            jolly-cobbers-together atmosphere, and Diggers trying to portray Brits but
            failing; that Patrick O'Brian's writing is very nice, but all Celtic
            convolutions (even though "O'Brian" was of Anglo-German background) and
            romantic, self-conscious preciousness; but that if one wants to sense what
            it was like in an accurately ENGLISH warship---including the sense of iron
            self-discipline, restraint and reserve---one still can't beat Forester and
            the Hornblower books. That same sense of deep restraint---a quality very
            difficult for us colonials to portray accurately and with proper balance,
            I'd agree---so idiosyncratic of the British during and since the Georgian
            era was in, for example, 'Pride and Prejudice', with Colin Firth and
            Jennifer Ehle. Too bad M&C hadn't been made by those producers or by
            Marchant & Ivory. Perhaps the best people to make films about Brits are
            Brits....

            What say you, mates?

            Yours aye
            Vic Suthren

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <BritcomHMP@...>
            To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 11:55 AM
            Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C


            >
            > In a message dated 2/1/04 6:52:57 AM, suthren@... writes:
            >
            >
            > > that adds to the "so near, and yet so
            > > far..." feeling I and others have about the film.
            > >
            >
            > Another thing I thought I heard (and I might be mistaken) during his anti
            > Napoleon 'pep talk' did he say "do you want to see a guillotine set up in
            > Trafalgar Square"?
            >
            > I know I did a serious mental double take but I later thought 'naaaa, he
            > couldn't have said that'!
            >
            > Cheers
            >
            > Tim
            >
            >
            > Timothy Pickles
            > 1100 Rue Chartres
            > New Orleans
            > Louisiana 70116
            > Tel & Fax: 504 522 4822
            > Mobile: 504 236 7130
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
            square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
            square miles...
            >
            > Unit Contact information for North America:
            > ---------------------------------
            > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            >
            > American Forces Unit Lisiting
            > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • ray.hobbs@sympatico.ca
            Oops! While we are on the subject of accuracy, and the comment about Brits making the best films about Brits: Russell Crowe - born New Zealand (although he has
            Message 5 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
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              Oops!
              While we are on the subject of accuracy, and the comment about Brits making the best films about Brits:
              Russell Crowe - born New Zealand (although he has lived much of his life in Oz)
              James Ivory - born Berkeley, California, Graduate of UCLA
              Ismail Merchant - born Bombay India, Graduate of New York U.
              This, of course, says nothing about the comments on M&C. I am not an expert, so will keep silent on the
              movie, 'cept to say I enjoyed it.
              Yrs etc.
              Ray Hobbs
              41st Regt.



              > From: <suthren@...>
              > Date: 2004/02/01 Sun PM 01:19:30 EST
              > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
              > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Peter Catley
              Hear him, Hear him. But then I could be described as bias :-) but in principal he it is correct, have you ever seen the Brits portraying Aussies or Americans,
              Message 6 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
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                Hear him, Hear him.



                But then I could be described as bias :-) but in principal he it is correct,
                have you ever seen the Brits portraying Aussies or Americans, it doesn't
                really work.



                Cheers



                P**



                -----Original Message-----
                From: suthren@... [mailto:suthren@...]
                Sent: 01 February 2004 18:20
                To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C



                Another log on the fire about M&C's accuracy. A British historical colleague
                surprisingly observed to me that in his opinion M&C displays, from his point
                of view, not a British warship's society but a unrestrained, Aussie
                jolly-cobbers-together atmosphere, and Diggers trying to portray Brits but
                failing; that Patrick O'Brian's writing is very nice, but all Celtic
                convolutions (even though "O'Brian" was of Anglo-German background) and
                romantic, self-conscious preciousness; but that if one wants to sense what
                it was like in an accurately ENGLISH warship---including the sense of iron
                self-discipline, restraint and reserve---one still can't beat Forester and
                the Hornblower books. That same sense of deep restraint---a quality very
                difficult for us colonials to portray accurately and with proper balance,
                I'd agree---so idiosyncratic of the British during and since the Georgian
                era was in, for example, 'Pride and Prejudice', with Colin Firth and
                Jennifer Ehle. Too bad M&C hadn't been made by those producers or by
                Marchant & Ivory. Perhaps the best people to make films about Brits are
                Brits....

                What say you, mates?

                Yours aye
                Vic Suthren

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: <BritcomHMP@...>
                To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 11:55 AM
                Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C


                >
                > In a message dated 2/1/04 6:52:57 AM, suthren@... writes:
                >
                >
                > > that adds to the "so near, and yet so
                > > far..." feeling I and others have about the film.
                > >
                >
                > Another thing I thought I heard (and I might be mistaken) during his anti
                > Napoleon 'pep talk' did he say "do you want to see a guillotine set up in
                > Trafalgar Square"?
                >
                > I know I did a serious mental double take but I later thought 'naaaa, he
                > couldn't have said that'!
                >
                > Cheers
                >
                > Tim
                >
                >
                > Timothy Pickles
                > 1100 Rue Chartres
                > New Orleans
                > Louisiana 70116
                > Tel & Fax: 504 522 4822
                > Mobile: 504 236 7130
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                square miles...
                >
                > Unit Contact information for North America:
                > ---------------------------------
                > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                >
                > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >



                The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                square miles...

                Unit Contact information for North America:
                ---------------------------------
                Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                American Forces Unit Lisiting
                http://usforces1812.tripod.com






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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • suthren@magma.ca
                Point well made. Thanks, Ray. Vic Suthren ... From: To: Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 2:03 PM Subject:
                Message 7 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
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                  Point well made. Thanks, Ray.

                  Vic Suthren

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: <ray.hobbs@...>
                  To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 2:03 PM
                  Subject: Re: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C


                  > Oops!
                  > While we are on the subject of accuracy, and the comment about Brits
                  making the best films about Brits:
                  > Russell Crowe - born New Zealand (although he has lived much of his life
                  in Oz)
                  > James Ivory - born Berkeley, California, Graduate of UCLA
                  > Ismail Merchant - born Bombay India, Graduate of New York U.
                  > This, of course, says nothing about the comments on M&C. I am not an
                  expert, so will keep silent on the
                  > movie, 'cept to say I enjoyed it.
                  > Yrs etc.
                  > Ray Hobbs
                  > 41st Regt.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > > From: <suthren@...>
                  > > Date: 2004/02/01 Sun PM 01:19:30 EST
                  > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                  square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                  square miles...
                  >
                  > Unit Contact information for North America:
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                  > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                  >
                  > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                  > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                • ray.hobbs@sympatico.ca
                  Vic: I have just seen again (for the umpteenth time) The Duellists - directed by a Brit, starring two American actors, about two French light cavalrymen. A
                  Message 8 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
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                    Vic:
                    I have just seen again (for the umpteenth time) "The Duellists' - directed by a Brit, starring two American
                    actors, about two French light cavalrymen. A superb movie - and the military advisor is a good friend of
                    mine (and he know where the mistakes are!) A marvellous piece of international cooperation.

                    It is a shame that there are not good movies of Forrester and co. I, like many, was raised on the novels.

                    With sincere greetings
                    Ray


                    > From: <suthren@...>
                    > Date: 2004/02/01 Sun PM 03:27:32 EST
                    > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Subject: Re: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • dancingbobd@webtv.net
                    Greetings from the icy Heart of America, Let s look at the positives. Russel Crowe got nominated for the leading male actor, which will get the movie back
                    Message 9 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
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                      Greetings from the icy Heart of America,

                      Let's look at the positives. Russel Crowe got nominated for the leading
                      male actor, which will get the movie back into theaters. People will
                      see characters dressed quite like us. Maybe a good opportunity for
                      recruitment. I, like Ray, saw and enjoyed the movie. I portray a
                      surgeon, and didn't go on about self surgery. Enjoy the good! Don't
                      obsess over what is less than historically correct. It's just a movie.
                      ;^)

                      So far the great snow storm is still 100 miles west of KC and we
                      continue to have freezing rain/drizzle and sleet.

                      Warm regards,

                      Bob Dorian
                      Surgeon 14LD, US Engineer & Tanguero
                    • Smaller, Brian C
                      Ray In The Duellists , Keith Carradine played de Hubert (I think that was his name) and a youngish Harvey Keitel the other cavalryman. It also had Albert
                      Message 10 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
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                        Ray

                        In 'The Duellists', Keith Carradine played de Hubert (I think that was his
                        name) and a youngish Harvey Keitel the other cavalryman. It also had Albert
                        Finney, Edward Fox and Tom Conti. THere were a lot of other well known
                        English actors as well, but my mind has gone blank. Pete Postlewaite was
                        one I think. I remember watching it once and having a book on Napoelonic
                        Hussar uniforms open and the uniforms were surprisingly good! Your mate did
                        a good job.

                        I actually felt cold in the Retreat from Moscow segment!

                        Brian



                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: ray.hobbs@... [mailto:ray.hobbs@...]
                        I have just seen again (for the umpteenth time) "The Duellists' - directed
                        by a Brit, starring two American
                        actors, about two French light cavalrymen.



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • suthren@magma.ca
                        Good point, Bob. Vic ... From: To: Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 5:45 PM Subject: Re: Re: [WarOf1812] M &
                        Message 11 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
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                          Good point, Bob.
                          Vic

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: <dancingbobd@...>
                          To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 5:45 PM
                          Subject: Re: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C


                          > Greetings from the icy Heart of America,
                          >
                          > Let's look at the positives. Russel Crowe got nominated for the leading
                          > male actor, which will get the movie back into theaters. People will
                          > see characters dressed quite like us. Maybe a good opportunity for
                          > recruitment. I, like Ray, saw and enjoyed the movie. I portray a
                          > surgeon, and didn't go on about self surgery. Enjoy the good! Don't
                          > obsess over what is less than historically correct. It's just a movie.
                          > ;^)
                          >
                          > So far the great snow storm is still 100 miles west of KC and we
                          > continue to have freezing rain/drizzle and sleet.
                          >
                          > Warm regards,
                          >
                          > Bob Dorian
                          > Surgeon 14LD, US Engineer & Tanguero
                          >
                          >
                          > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                          square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                          square miles...
                          >
                          > Unit Contact information for North America:
                          > ---------------------------------
                          > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                          > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                          >
                          > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                          > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >
                        • ray.hobbs@sympatico.ca
                          Brian; In the interview with Ridley Scott (it was his first feature movie), he mentions that the whole thing was done for $900,000, and with a cast of 20-30
                          Message 12 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
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                            Brian;
                            In the interview with Ridley Scott (it was his first feature movie), he mentions that the whole thing was
                            done for $900,000, and with a cast of 20-30 extras.
                            Richard, the military advisor, told me that there was one mistake with the wearing of red trousers for the
                            7th Hussars, rather than the green which would have gone with the jacket worn. the reason was that
                            the green trousers had been used the day before in a rainstorm, and were still wet!!!!
                            Just shows, though what can be done with a director intent on making an historically accurate movie.
                            Others in this style are "Vatel", and "Ridicule" - earlier period, but excellent.
                            Ray

                            > From: "Smaller, Brian C" <brian.smaller@...>
                            > Date: 2004/02/01 Sun PM 06:33:39 EST
                            > To: "'WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com'" <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Subject: RE: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                            ... Well, as I recall, the general was a General of Division (two lines of gold embroidery & 2 stars on the eps) but has a general of Brigades sash (shot
                            Message 13 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
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                              In a message dated 2/1/04 6:31:48 PM, ray.hobbs@... writes:


                              > Richard, the military advisor, told me that there was one mistake with the
                              > wearing of red trousers for the
                              > 7th Hussars, rather than the green which would have gone with the jacket
                              > worn. the reason was that
                              > the green trousers had been used the day before in a rainstorm, and were
                              > still wet!!!!
                              >

                              Well, as I recall, the general was a 'General of Division' (two lines of gold
                              embroidery & 2 stars on the eps) but has a general of Brigades sash (shot
                              through with blue not red). But it was a magnificent film ans one where the
                              technical advisor and costume designer knew their jobs and were allowed to do them.
                              If only they were all so good!

                              Cheers

                              Tim



                              Timothy Pickles
                              1100 Rue Chartres
                              New Orleans
                              Louisiana 70116
                              Tel & Fax: 504 522 4822
                              Mobile: 504 236 7130



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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