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M & C

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  • BritcomHMP@aol.com
    Well, long after everyone else, I finaly saw the movie in full. There were all those points that people have brought up in the past and lots more, but
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 31, 2004
      Well, long after everyone else, I finaly saw the movie in full. There were
      all those points that people have brought up in the past and lots more, but
      something got me. Where did the idea come from that a ship off the coast of Brazil
      might have to return to Porstsmouth come from?
      The North American Station was based on Antigua where a complete dockyard was
      (and is) to be found.

      Just a thought,

      Cheers,

      Tim





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • suthren@magma.ca
      Tim raises a perceptive point that Peter Weir, as scriptwriter, and his historical advisor should have known; that adds to the so near, and yet so far...
      Message 2 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
        Tim raises a perceptive point that Peter Weir, as scriptwriter, and his
        historical advisor should have known; that adds to the "so near, and yet so
        far..." feeling I and others have about the film. In 1997 I was crewing in a
        brigantine that put into English Harbour, Antigua, and tied up alongside HMS
        ROSE to ships' iron guns projecting upright as bollards, and near the Copper
        & Lumber Yard which was now a superb small restaurant. A diver told me that
        the great chain which lay along the bottom of the harbour, and which the
        ships used to use to warp themselves out to sea, is still there, as so much
        is. One could see SURPRISE setting her topsails out of there, all right....

        Yours aye
        Vic Suthren

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <BritcomHMP@...>
        To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 1:01 AM
        Subject: [WarOf1812] M & C


        > Well, long after everyone else, I finaly saw the movie in full. There were
        > all those points that people have brought up in the past and lots more,
        but
        > something got me. Where did the idea come from that a ship off the coast
        of Brazil
        > might have to return to Porstsmouth come from?
        > The North American Station was based on Antigua where a complete dockyard
        was
        > (and is) to be found.
        >
        > Just a thought,
        >
        > Cheers,
        >
        > Tim
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
        square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
        square miles...
        >
        > Unit Contact information for North America:
        > ---------------------------------
        > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
        > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
        >
        > American Forces Unit Lisiting
        > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • BritcomHMP@aol.com
        ... Another thing I thought I heard (and I might be mistaken) during his anti Napoleon pep talk did he say do you want to see a guillotine set up in
        Message 3 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
          In a message dated 2/1/04 6:52:57 AM, suthren@... writes:


          > that adds to the "so near, and yet so
          > far..." feeling I and others have about the film.
          >

          Another thing I thought I heard (and I might be mistaken) during his anti
          Napoleon 'pep talk' did he say "do you want to see a guillotine set up in
          Trafalgar Square"?

          I know I did a serious mental double take but I later thought 'naaaa, he
          couldn't have said that'!

          Cheers

          Tim


          Timothy Pickles
          1100 Rue Chartres
          New Orleans
          Louisiana 70116
          Tel & Fax: 504 522 4822
          Mobile: 504 236 7130



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • abateman
          ... From: ... I m sure he said Picadilly . That existed in 1805, didn t it? Andrew Bateman, 41st Foot
          Message 4 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <BritcomHMP@...>
            >
            > Another thing I thought I heard (and I might be mistaken) during his anti
            > Napoleon 'pep talk' did he say "do you want to see a guillotine set up in
            > Trafalgar Square"?

            I'm sure he said "Picadilly". That existed in 1805, didn't it?

            Andrew Bateman, 41st Foot
          • suthren@magma.ca
            Another log on the fire about M&C s accuracy. A British historical colleague surprisingly observed to me that in his opinion M&C displays, from his point of
            Message 5 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
              Another log on the fire about M&C's accuracy. A British historical colleague
              surprisingly observed to me that in his opinion M&C displays, from his point
              of view, not a British warship's society but a unrestrained, Aussie
              jolly-cobbers-together atmosphere, and Diggers trying to portray Brits but
              failing; that Patrick O'Brian's writing is very nice, but all Celtic
              convolutions (even though "O'Brian" was of Anglo-German background) and
              romantic, self-conscious preciousness; but that if one wants to sense what
              it was like in an accurately ENGLISH warship---including the sense of iron
              self-discipline, restraint and reserve---one still can't beat Forester and
              the Hornblower books. That same sense of deep restraint---a quality very
              difficult for us colonials to portray accurately and with proper balance,
              I'd agree---so idiosyncratic of the British during and since the Georgian
              era was in, for example, 'Pride and Prejudice', with Colin Firth and
              Jennifer Ehle. Too bad M&C hadn't been made by those producers or by
              Marchant & Ivory. Perhaps the best people to make films about Brits are
              Brits....

              What say you, mates?

              Yours aye
              Vic Suthren

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: <BritcomHMP@...>
              To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 11:55 AM
              Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C


              >
              > In a message dated 2/1/04 6:52:57 AM, suthren@... writes:
              >
              >
              > > that adds to the "so near, and yet so
              > > far..." feeling I and others have about the film.
              > >
              >
              > Another thing I thought I heard (and I might be mistaken) during his anti
              > Napoleon 'pep talk' did he say "do you want to see a guillotine set up in
              > Trafalgar Square"?
              >
              > I know I did a serious mental double take but I later thought 'naaaa, he
              > couldn't have said that'!
              >
              > Cheers
              >
              > Tim
              >
              >
              > Timothy Pickles
              > 1100 Rue Chartres
              > New Orleans
              > Louisiana 70116
              > Tel & Fax: 504 522 4822
              > Mobile: 504 236 7130
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
              square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
              square miles...
              >
              > Unit Contact information for North America:
              > ---------------------------------
              > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              >
              > American Forces Unit Lisiting
              > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
            • ray.hobbs@sympatico.ca
              Oops! While we are on the subject of accuracy, and the comment about Brits making the best films about Brits: Russell Crowe - born New Zealand (although he has
              Message 6 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
                Oops!
                While we are on the subject of accuracy, and the comment about Brits making the best films about Brits:
                Russell Crowe - born New Zealand (although he has lived much of his life in Oz)
                James Ivory - born Berkeley, California, Graduate of UCLA
                Ismail Merchant - born Bombay India, Graduate of New York U.
                This, of course, says nothing about the comments on M&C. I am not an expert, so will keep silent on the
                movie, 'cept to say I enjoyed it.
                Yrs etc.
                Ray Hobbs
                41st Regt.



                > From: <suthren@...>
                > Date: 2004/02/01 Sun PM 01:19:30 EST
                > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Peter Catley
                Hear him, Hear him. But then I could be described as bias :-) but in principal he it is correct, have you ever seen the Brits portraying Aussies or Americans,
                Message 7 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
                  Hear him, Hear him.



                  But then I could be described as bias :-) but in principal he it is correct,
                  have you ever seen the Brits portraying Aussies or Americans, it doesn't
                  really work.



                  Cheers



                  P**



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: suthren@... [mailto:suthren@...]
                  Sent: 01 February 2004 18:20
                  To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C



                  Another log on the fire about M&C's accuracy. A British historical colleague
                  surprisingly observed to me that in his opinion M&C displays, from his point
                  of view, not a British warship's society but a unrestrained, Aussie
                  jolly-cobbers-together atmosphere, and Diggers trying to portray Brits but
                  failing; that Patrick O'Brian's writing is very nice, but all Celtic
                  convolutions (even though "O'Brian" was of Anglo-German background) and
                  romantic, self-conscious preciousness; but that if one wants to sense what
                  it was like in an accurately ENGLISH warship---including the sense of iron
                  self-discipline, restraint and reserve---one still can't beat Forester and
                  the Hornblower books. That same sense of deep restraint---a quality very
                  difficult for us colonials to portray accurately and with proper balance,
                  I'd agree---so idiosyncratic of the British during and since the Georgian
                  era was in, for example, 'Pride and Prejudice', with Colin Firth and
                  Jennifer Ehle. Too bad M&C hadn't been made by those producers or by
                  Marchant & Ivory. Perhaps the best people to make films about Brits are
                  Brits....

                  What say you, mates?

                  Yours aye
                  Vic Suthren

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: <BritcomHMP@...>
                  To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 11:55 AM
                  Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C


                  >
                  > In a message dated 2/1/04 6:52:57 AM, suthren@... writes:
                  >
                  >
                  > > that adds to the "so near, and yet so
                  > > far..." feeling I and others have about the film.
                  > >
                  >
                  > Another thing I thought I heard (and I might be mistaken) during his anti
                  > Napoleon 'pep talk' did he say "do you want to see a guillotine set up in
                  > Trafalgar Square"?
                  >
                  > I know I did a serious mental double take but I later thought 'naaaa, he
                  > couldn't have said that'!
                  >
                  > Cheers
                  >
                  > Tim
                  >
                  >
                  > Timothy Pickles
                  > 1100 Rue Chartres
                  > New Orleans
                  > Louisiana 70116
                  > Tel & Fax: 504 522 4822
                  > Mobile: 504 236 7130
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                  square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                  square miles...
                  >
                  > Unit Contact information for North America:
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                  > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                  >
                  > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                  > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >



                  The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                  square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                  square miles...

                  Unit Contact information for North America:
                  ---------------------------------
                  Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                  http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                  American Forces Unit Lisiting
                  http://usforces1812.tripod.com






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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • suthren@magma.ca
                  Point well made. Thanks, Ray. Vic Suthren ... From: To: Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 2:03 PM Subject:
                  Message 8 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
                    Point well made. Thanks, Ray.

                    Vic Suthren

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: <ray.hobbs@...>
                    To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 2:03 PM
                    Subject: Re: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C


                    > Oops!
                    > While we are on the subject of accuracy, and the comment about Brits
                    making the best films about Brits:
                    > Russell Crowe - born New Zealand (although he has lived much of his life
                    in Oz)
                    > James Ivory - born Berkeley, California, Graduate of UCLA
                    > Ismail Merchant - born Bombay India, Graduate of New York U.
                    > This, of course, says nothing about the comments on M&C. I am not an
                    expert, so will keep silent on the
                    > movie, 'cept to say I enjoyed it.
                    > Yrs etc.
                    > Ray Hobbs
                    > 41st Regt.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > > From: <suthren@...>
                    > > Date: 2004/02/01 Sun PM 01:19:30 EST
                    > > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                    square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                    square miles...
                    >
                    > Unit Contact information for North America:
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                    > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                    >
                    > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                    > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                  • ray.hobbs@sympatico.ca
                    Vic: I have just seen again (for the umpteenth time) The Duellists - directed by a Brit, starring two American actors, about two French light cavalrymen. A
                    Message 9 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
                      Vic:
                      I have just seen again (for the umpteenth time) "The Duellists' - directed by a Brit, starring two American
                      actors, about two French light cavalrymen. A superb movie - and the military advisor is a good friend of
                      mine (and he know where the mistakes are!) A marvellous piece of international cooperation.

                      It is a shame that there are not good movies of Forrester and co. I, like many, was raised on the novels.

                      With sincere greetings
                      Ray


                      > From: <suthren@...>
                      > Date: 2004/02/01 Sun PM 03:27:32 EST
                      > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Subject: Re: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • dancingbobd@webtv.net
                      Greetings from the icy Heart of America, Let s look at the positives. Russel Crowe got nominated for the leading male actor, which will get the movie back
                      Message 10 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
                        Greetings from the icy Heart of America,

                        Let's look at the positives. Russel Crowe got nominated for the leading
                        male actor, which will get the movie back into theaters. People will
                        see characters dressed quite like us. Maybe a good opportunity for
                        recruitment. I, like Ray, saw and enjoyed the movie. I portray a
                        surgeon, and didn't go on about self surgery. Enjoy the good! Don't
                        obsess over what is less than historically correct. It's just a movie.
                        ;^)

                        So far the great snow storm is still 100 miles west of KC and we
                        continue to have freezing rain/drizzle and sleet.

                        Warm regards,

                        Bob Dorian
                        Surgeon 14LD, US Engineer & Tanguero
                      • Smaller, Brian C
                        Ray In The Duellists , Keith Carradine played de Hubert (I think that was his name) and a youngish Harvey Keitel the other cavalryman. It also had Albert
                        Message 11 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
                          Ray

                          In 'The Duellists', Keith Carradine played de Hubert (I think that was his
                          name) and a youngish Harvey Keitel the other cavalryman. It also had Albert
                          Finney, Edward Fox and Tom Conti. THere were a lot of other well known
                          English actors as well, but my mind has gone blank. Pete Postlewaite was
                          one I think. I remember watching it once and having a book on Napoelonic
                          Hussar uniforms open and the uniforms were surprisingly good! Your mate did
                          a good job.

                          I actually felt cold in the Retreat from Moscow segment!

                          Brian



                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: ray.hobbs@... [mailto:ray.hobbs@...]
                          I have just seen again (for the umpteenth time) "The Duellists' - directed
                          by a Brit, starring two American
                          actors, about two French light cavalrymen.



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • suthren@magma.ca
                          Good point, Bob. Vic ... From: To: Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 5:45 PM Subject: Re: Re: [WarOf1812] M &
                          Message 12 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
                            Good point, Bob.
                            Vic

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: <dancingbobd@...>
                            To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 5:45 PM
                            Subject: Re: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C


                            > Greetings from the icy Heart of America,
                            >
                            > Let's look at the positives. Russel Crowe got nominated for the leading
                            > male actor, which will get the movie back into theaters. People will
                            > see characters dressed quite like us. Maybe a good opportunity for
                            > recruitment. I, like Ray, saw and enjoyed the movie. I portray a
                            > surgeon, and didn't go on about self surgery. Enjoy the good! Don't
                            > obsess over what is less than historically correct. It's just a movie.
                            > ;^)
                            >
                            > So far the great snow storm is still 100 miles west of KC and we
                            > continue to have freezing rain/drizzle and sleet.
                            >
                            > Warm regards,
                            >
                            > Bob Dorian
                            > Surgeon 14LD, US Engineer & Tanguero
                            >
                            >
                            > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                            square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                            square miles...
                            >
                            > Unit Contact information for North America:
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                            > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                            >
                            > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                            > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
                            >
                            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >
                            >
                          • ray.hobbs@sympatico.ca
                            Brian; In the interview with Ridley Scott (it was his first feature movie), he mentions that the whole thing was done for $900,000, and with a cast of 20-30
                            Message 13 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
                              Brian;
                              In the interview with Ridley Scott (it was his first feature movie), he mentions that the whole thing was
                              done for $900,000, and with a cast of 20-30 extras.
                              Richard, the military advisor, told me that there was one mistake with the wearing of red trousers for the
                              7th Hussars, rather than the green which would have gone with the jacket worn. the reason was that
                              the green trousers had been used the day before in a rainstorm, and were still wet!!!!
                              Just shows, though what can be done with a director intent on making an historically accurate movie.
                              Others in this style are "Vatel", and "Ridicule" - earlier period, but excellent.
                              Ray

                              > From: "Smaller, Brian C" <brian.smaller@...>
                              > Date: 2004/02/01 Sun PM 06:33:39 EST
                              > To: "'WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com'" <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Subject: RE: Re: [WarOf1812] M & C
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                              ... Well, as I recall, the general was a General of Division (two lines of gold embroidery & 2 stars on the eps) but has a general of Brigades sash (shot
                              Message 14 of 17 , Feb 1, 2004
                                In a message dated 2/1/04 6:31:48 PM, ray.hobbs@... writes:


                                > Richard, the military advisor, told me that there was one mistake with the
                                > wearing of red trousers for the
                                > 7th Hussars, rather than the green which would have gone with the jacket
                                > worn. the reason was that
                                > the green trousers had been used the day before in a rainstorm, and were
                                > still wet!!!!
                                >

                                Well, as I recall, the general was a 'General of Division' (two lines of gold
                                embroidery & 2 stars on the eps) but has a general of Brigades sash (shot
                                through with blue not red). But it was a magnificent film ans one where the
                                technical advisor and costume designer knew their jobs and were allowed to do them.
                                If only they were all so good!

                                Cheers

                                Tim



                                Timothy Pickles
                                1100 Rue Chartres
                                New Orleans
                                Louisiana 70116
                                Tel & Fax: 504 522 4822
                                Mobile: 504 236 7130



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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