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First Parliament goings-on

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  • natty10000
    Been by the site a couple of times in the last couple of weeks and it seems pretty clear that, despite an apparent agreement about a land swap to save the site
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 2, 2003
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      Been by the site a couple of times in the last couple of weeks and it
      seems pretty clear that, despite an apparent agreement about a land
      swap to save the site from becoming a Porsche dealership
      (http://www.heritagetoronto.org/issues/issues2.show?eventId=42),
      construction is continuing. Does anyone on this list know what's
      going on?

      TIA

      Ian
    • Five Rivers
      Haven t heard boo about this, but like you I was under the impression construction was to have halted. Perhaps a call to Toronto City Hall? Queen s Park? This
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 3, 2003
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        Haven't heard boo about this, but like you I was under the impression
        construction was to have halted. Perhaps a call to Toronto City Hall?
        Queen's Park? This site is too important to be lost.

        Regards
        Lorina
        Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage
        fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery
        supplies
        (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@...
      • john harris
        Message: 3 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:22:38 -0500 From: Five Rivers Subject: Re: First Parliament goings-on Haven t heard boo about this,
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 4, 2003
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          Message: 3
          Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:22:38 -0500
          From: "Five Rivers" <lorina@...>
          Subject: Re: First Parliament goings-on

          Haven't heard boo about this, but like you I was under the impression
          construction was to have halted. Perhaps a call to Toronto City Hall?
          Queen's Park? This site is too important to be lost.

          Regards
          Lorina


          Not to be a jerk, but what are "they" going to do with the site? It's a
          hole in the ground with some remnants of foundations right? Is the Federal,
          Provincial, or City government really going to do anything ? Sorry folks
          but lets be realistic here . They won't spend the money . The MOST you're
          going to get will be a historic plaque that some urchin will tag . Call
          city hall ? There's an election right now , no one will stick their neck out
          . A civil servant ? Not His/Her job .
          The Toronto Historical Board ? They're so underfunded right now, they can't
          do a thing. The provincial government? New government , not on the agenda !
          The Fed's ? Too busy having a new crowning ceremony .
          Is it right ? Absolutely not ! Is it life ? Unfortunately yes . I know ,
          "it's a vital part of our heritage and should be preserved " . But the
          ENTIRE battle of York battlefield is under asphalt ( The CNE ) . Are we
          going to rip up and tear down all those buildings ? No . Some times things
          are just not fair but that's life . In a city starved for cash , history
          falls by the wayside . Not nice, but life in Toronto in the 21st Century .
          I'm I cynical ? You're damn right !
          Regards
          John Harris
          25th US Infantry, Whiting's Company
          42nd Reg't Grenadier Company
          Toronto, On
        • natty10000
          ... CNE ) . Are we going to rip up and tear down all those buildings ? No . Some times things are just not fair but that s life . In a city starved for cash ,
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 4, 2003
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            >But the ENTIRE battle of York battlefield is under asphalt ( The
            CNE ) . Are we going to rip up and tear down all those buildings ?
            No . Some times things are just not fair but that's life . In a city
            starved for cash , history falls by the wayside . Not nice, but life
            in Toronto in the 21st Century . I'm I cynical ? You're damn right !


            Fair enough, John. But let's be reasonable: the First Parliament site
            is hardly comparable in scope to the Ex. That and the Ex hasn't lain
            unused for a decade (though it may seem so). An agreement is in place
            and the details are beginning to fall in place. Once I hear back from
            Queen's Park, I'll post what I know.

            Meantime, it never hurts to keep the pressure on.
          • Kevin & Allison Windsor
            The same thing is being discussed with Lundy s Lane. In the early 60 s someone suggested buying/expropriating the battlefield (as they thought it then) and
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 5, 2003
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              The same thing is being discussed with Lundy's Lane. In the early 60's someone suggested buying/expropriating the battlefield (as they thought it then) and turning it
              into a Niagara Falls Gettysburg. Someone revived it again! I told them the area (about 100 ha overall) and it would cost approx $1,000,000,000.

              john harris wrote:

              >
              > Not to be a jerk, but what are "they" going to do with the site? It's a
              > hole in the ground with some remnants of foundations right? Is the Federal,
              > Provincial, or City government really going to do anything ? Sorry folks
              > but lets be realistic here . They won't spend the money . The MOST you're
              > going to get will be a historic plaque that some urchin will tag . Call
              > city hall ? There's an election right now , no one will stick their neck out
            • Five Rivers
              Respectfully, your opinion may in fact be life and quite realistic, but not necessarily a reason not to try. There are some startling examples
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 5, 2003
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                Respectfully, your opinion may in fact be 'life' and quite realistic,
                but not necessarily a reason not to try. There are some startling examples
                internationally of there being sufficient will to preserve heritage while
                allowing for the modern. Take for example Roman ruins under the city of
                Gloucester, England. One can view these through glass floors in public
                venues. Quite amazing. And it still allows archeologists access and
                opportunity to work and discover.

                There is a tremendous example of this in Greece in the subway system
                where ancient ruins, layer upon layer, are shielded behind extensive glass
                walls. Culture and history right there, visible, in a subway station
                platform. And, again, archeologists still have access.

                Sometimes it just takes a little thinking outside the box. And the will.

                So indeed at all levels of government there is change at the moment. But
                that shouldn't be a deterent. We can learn from previous oversights. There
                is a 'can' in 'can't. :-) We have a voice. We can use that voice. Not to is
                as the same as allowing someone else to vote for you.

                Just some thought this morning while trying to deal with brokers and the
                upheaval caused by the changes in cross-border shipping. Sigh.

                Lorina
                Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage
                fine hand-sewn embroidered garments, historical sewing patterns & embroidery
                supplies
                (519) 799-5577, http://www.5rivers.org email: info@...
              • natty10000
                ... 60 s someone suggested buying/expropriating the battlefield (as they thought it then) and turning it ... them the area (about 100 ha overall) and it would
                Message 7 of 8 , Nov 5, 2003
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                  --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Kevin & Allison Windsor
                  <kevin.windsor@s...> wrote:
                  > The same thing is being discussed with Lundy's Lane. In the early
                  60's someone suggested buying/expropriating the battlefield (as they
                  thought it then) and turning it
                  > into a Niagara Falls Gettysburg. Someone revived it again! I told
                  them the area (about 100 ha overall) and it would cost approx
                  $1,000,000,000.

                  You can't compare a long built-up area like Lundy's Lane (which
                  obviously covers a great deal of space) with something like the First
                  Parliament site that covers something less than a square block
                  presently housing a Budget Rent-a-Truck, a gas station and a
                  decrepit, long-empty automotive repair shop. Preserving Lundy's Lane
                  battlefield would have had to have been suggested about a decade
                  after the War for there to be a fair comparison.

                  NOW is the time to be setting this heritage property aside, not a
                  decade from now when the area is built up and the property is worth
                  10 times what it is now. NOW, things are salvagable; a decade from
                  now? Who knows?

                  This certainly isn't the time to be throwing in the towel.
                  Ian
                • john harris
                  Message: 1 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:15:10 -0500 From: Five Rivers Subject: Re: First Parliament goings-on Respectfully, your opinion may
                  Message 8 of 8 , Nov 6, 2003
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                    Message: 1
                    Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:15:10 -0500
                    From: "Five Rivers" <lorina@...>
                    Subject: Re: First Parliament goings-on

                    Respectfully, your opinion may in fact be 'life' and quite realistic,
                    but not necessarily a reason not to try. There are some startling examples
                    internationally of there being sufficient will to preserve heritage while
                    allowing for the modern. Take for example Roman ruins under the city of
                    Gloucester, England. One can view these through glass floors in public
                    venues. Quite amazing. And it still allows archeologists access and
                    opportunity to work and discover.

                    There is a tremendous example of this in Greece in the subway system
                    where ancient ruins, layer upon layer, are shielded behind extensive glass
                    walls. Culture and history right there, visible, in a subway station
                    platform. And, again, archeologists still have access.


                    > Those are very good examples of cities that CARE about their heritage and
                    not revisionist history . Toronto wants to think that's it's a "World
                    Class City ". A world class city would not allow it's waterfront to become
                    a shrine to the great Condo god's , by building a 30 story fence keeping the
                    people from even seeing the lake .
                    If the history is not polictally correct , should we ignore it ? No, not in
                    my opinion , but in these days of "British bashing " , no one ( politician )
                    is going to stick their neck out to save something that will not either 1-
                    give them vote's , 2 - give them press , 3-give them kickbacks .
                    Life in the big city eh?
                    All in my opinion of course .
                    John Harris
                    Toronto
                    25th Us Inf.
                    42nd Reg't
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